Apple 'leaving money on the table' by not releasing big-screen iPhone - Page 7

 

I don't think anybody would hold it against Apple for making (continuing to make) that product for those customers. 

 

Why should they resent Apple making a phone with a bigger screen for the other customers? I haven't counted, but on skimming through the whole thread it seems to me that at least 1/3 of the posters say they would buy it. 

 

ps. I'll resist saying (citation needed) on "vast majority." I think all that's definitively established is that the people with iPhones prefer iPhones to other brand/OS combinations. The 5 has already outsold the 4S, right? That suggests that the 1/2-inch increase was not a mistake. I just can't believe that selling 2 sizes would destroy the iPhone magic. Heck, there are already two colors! That's one more than Google has put on its Nexus models. 

I don't think Macs are a niche product, but I don't think your criteria are the right ones.  To serve a niche a product doesn't have to be peculiar or useless for the rest of the market.  I would consider Linux a niche product as far as general consumers are concerned, but that doesn't mean it's not designed to be used by everyone.  Linux could very easily replace Windows or Mac from a functionality standpoint, but it's a niche product because a very small number of people prefer it over the other platforms.

Which is why I say the Mac is a niche product. The Mac has about 6.4 percent of the market for consumer use.

 

http://www.netmarketshare.com/operating-system-market-share.aspx?qprid=10&qpcustomd=0

Macs are mainstream computing devices. They're built with the same intel / nvidia components as Wintel PCs, and OS X is a BSD UNIX based operating system with support for the GNU toolchain. And you can run goddamned Microsoft Office and Outlook on it. You'd better believe Macs competes directly with Windows boxes. Even if most buyers choose Windows.

 

Open a dictionary: niche does not mean "tiny market." Niche means specialized. Macs aren't specialized: they are general purpose computers for anyone who is ready to kick Windows to the curb. Macs aren't as popular as Windows because Windows compatibility (and familiarity) creates "stickiness" to Microsoft's platform. That has to be overcome to win market share away from Windows.

 

Got it?

I like the iPhone just the way it is. Those wider pieces of plastic are just fugly and I'd be worried about how I was going to put that thing in my pocket, let alone sit down somewhere while it's in there.

The iPhone was designed to be primarily a phone, and that's what it is. The others are trying to be phone and tablet-jack of all trades, master of none.

You've seen a significant share of current iPhone users clamoring for a display smaller than 3.5"?? That's hard to believe, but I guess it's possible. Is there some survey somewhere you've seen? Just curious, no biggie.

If you have a problem reading on your iPhone. Navigate to your Settings menu and open it. Scroll down until you see the options to tinker with your General settings. To change the size of the fonts used on your iPhone, you’ll need to open up the device’s Accessibility options. With your iPhone’s Accessibility options pane now open, select Large Text. Your iPhone supports fonts up to 56 points in size. Choose the size that is most comfortable for you.

 

Summary: You don't need to buy a new phone with a big screen to read it.  

The 4 and 4S were selling just fine. Having a bigger screen is better to the point it doesn't affect the usability of the device so they pushed it as far as they could with the iPhone 5.

If they choose to go further, they're going affect usability. They could choose to do that and market it differently but they retained the PPI going to the iPhone 5. They can't do that going to a bigger phone without having another resolution for developers to deal with.

Really? It's all old people walking around with their $500 Galaxy S3 phones sexting and running apps? I would love to meet these cool oldies.

Yeah as in 1.2% vs 7%:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usage_share_of_operating_systems

as in nearly 6x the marketshare. Linux is to OS X what OS X is to Windows 7 (no, not better than OS X).

OS X share is more impressive when you factor in that it only runs on more expensive Mac hardware. Linux runs on everything and it's free and still nobody wants it. Also, at some point they'll have to factor in tablets for everyone and Apple is doing pretty well there:

http://www.theverge.com/2012/1/14/2706292/apple-ipad-computer-market-share-chart

Linux is hard. OS X is easy but expensive. Windows is easy and cheap.

Linux is great and powerful. OS X is very good and quite powerful. Windows is.

 

From that matrix, you can conclude that most people prefer easy and cheap over powerful and great, on a ratio of 1 to 6 for each increment.

 

 

Not in smartphone marketshare. Don't add stupid "feature phones" to the argument.

Please do tell what you think Apple would lose?

I fully expect that a larger iPhone would also be priced accordingly, so it wouldn't be margins.

And technically within this space which is Apple's very own, they are not "cannibalizing" anything... however they ARE potentially adding customers and/or staving off those that are considering switching... for the very single reason of a larger screen.

And might I add: ANAL-CYSTS be damned! There's enough people even on this board that would like a larger iPhone. Can you imagine what the percentage might be from the normal everyday user? And again: if the trend or user uptake is too small to play with... kill it! Nothing is finite in tech. Nothing. Including time itself!

PS. Oh yeah... one more thing: forget the stupid ass cheap plastic feature phone!!!!! iPhones starting with the 3gs/iOS6.1 are cheap enough for pre-paid fans. Funny how they still cost €150 - €200 here in Germany.
Edited by ThePixelDoc - 2/6/13 at 7:33am

Then continue to purchase the iPhone 5(s), 6, 7.

Why do people think that for Apple to make a larger iPhone, they absolutely MUST discontinue the current size?

Buy the size that fits your $%^&* needs and pants! Probably is, you and everyone else doesn't have that choice with the far superior Apple iPhone.

Why should people have to sacrifice and pull their hair out with those other wannabe OSes/devices? Just so you have an easy choice of "one size fits all"?

Have some pity on your fellow iPhone fan: don't force them to use The Robot, or the OS GUI formerly named after a subway system in Europe!

No question. This article is spot on. I was an iPhone 4 user, but after seeing the size of many other phones (Samsung Galaxy III), I was getting antsy for Apple's next gen phone to be bigger. Well, they did come out with a bigger phone. The only problem was, it was the same width. Just longer. The iPhone 5. Long skinny phone. Still too small.

The Samsung Galaxy S3 is the perfect size for a cell phone. It's not too big at all. It's shallow in depth and light in weight. It fits in my pocket perfectly. I ended up dumping my iPhone for the S3, and I couldn't be happier. However, if Apple makes a phone the size of the S3, I'm coming back to the iPhone no question.

One thing for sure is that the iOS is WAY better than the Android OS. Apple just knows how to make a user interface intuitive. Regardless, the iOS isn't enough to make me want to jump back to a smaller phone like the iPhone 5. The only way Apple will get me back to an iPhone is if they make it about the size of the S3. It's the perfect screen size for a phone.

Come on Apple. Please make a phone at least the size of the S3. I'll jump back in a hurry, because outside of the S3, everything I own is Apple.

Apple TV
Macbook Pro
iPad 3
Airport Express
Galaxy S3

One of these things is not like the other (Sesame Street).

Couldn't disagree with you more. I jumped from the iPhone 4 to the Galaxy S3, because the iPhone 5 is too small. The S3 is the perfect screen size for a phone. Apple will get me back if they make a bigger screen. The S3...in my opinion...is a better piece of hardware than the iPhone 5. iOS is still better, but Android isn't far off with its user interface. The Galaxy Note is more of a "phablet" phone. That is a bit large for me. I considered it though, and ultimately it was the price that deterred me. The S3 is not a "phablet" size in my opinion. If Apple builds an iPhone about the size of the S3, they will win me back.

 

This is a no brainer decision if Apple wants its stock to recover.

 

The link you're using is talking about OS market share based on web usage stats.  That's not a fair estimate of current market share based on sales because there is an enormous established base of old PCs that people are still using.  Current buyers are choosing Macs about 1/7 of the time.  You might consider that a niche product, but I don't, especially when you look at the trend of increasing market share.

 

http://www.macrumors.com/2012/10/10/apple-hits-new-high-with-13-6-share-of-u-s-pc-shipments-in-3q-2012/

 

No, a niche product is one with specific appeal, usually giving it a small space (or a niche) in the market, but that doesn't mean it's specialized.  Linux isn't specialized in any way, but it has specific appeal and thus commands a niche of the market.  Windows Phone isn't specialized in any way, but it has specific appeal and thus commands a niche of the market.  In the early 2000s Macs weren't specialized in any way, but they had specific appeal and thus commanded a  niche of the market.

 

If niche products were too specialized to have appeal outside a very specific group of people, their market share would never grow.  We saw Macs grow in market share over the past decade.  Windows Phone and Linux could (but probably won't) grow substantially in market share over the next decade, not because they're targeting specific groups of people, but because only a small group of people prefer them.

Yea you can get an ipad but then you have to carry 2 devices

I think the point is different strokes for different folks. Apple decided to take choice away from the consumer when it comes to Apple products so some consumers are electing to buy products that meet their needs better. This isnt rocket science, it's sales and in sales the customer is always right...

Sh*t... Seriously, do you have any sort of cognitive problem?

 

The new phone doesn't have to outsell the current model (4") or even half of it to be worth it and a great idea. That's something only someone without the minimum requirement of intelligence to be seen as a "normal" person would say. It can be a model with even better margins and selling 20million per quarter if done right. Together with 40million+ of the current model, and you have the idea of how much dominant and stronger the iOS ecosystem could be.

 

And please, for you and others, do not make stupid questions about how I reached this "delusional" number or statements about how this idea is bad because Samsung "only" sold 15 million S3+note per quarter.

 

Do the right math. You will see that Apple is LOSING 10s of millions of costumers per quarter just because they do not release a bigger model together with the current one. 10s of millions. Does Apple need them to prosper? No. Is Apple absolutely retarded for not doing it? Yes.

Shut up... On developed countries Macs are "the" computers, even outselling other brands and their cheap sh*t. On educated people, Apple outsells every single OEM (doctors, university students, journalists, hell... google, HP former CEO, engineers, CEOs, etc).

It's not about the stock, f*ck the stock, Apple makes 15 billion profit per quarter, who cares about a bunch of stupid and useless bastards?

 

It's about making the best products, and for millions of potential costumers each quarter (in worldwide numbers they could double the iPhone's market share) a bigger screen can make a slower/weaker/less powerful/equally expensive (s3, note, dna, xperia z, one x, etc) phone a better phone that the iPhone.

 

If you browse the web a lot and watch videos or play games, the 3x less powerful galaxy note provides a much better experience.

An iPhone with a retina screen, 5 inch? That's the dream of millions and millions of costumers, despite the BS that Tallest Skill and others are trying to say. (like if Apple wouldn't absolutely lose to have a third of the S3 users (together with current users) on the iOS ecosystem!!).

 

They can easily do that with another iPhone model + the current 4" model. Only these prima-donnas that want "the only one" "the absolute" "only 1 per year release" model don't want that. But as far as I care, they can go to hell...

 

It wouldn't interfere with their choices at all, but they need to vomit some BS.

 

So... in other words you are changing your argument.

 

It's no longer about the iPhone 5 outselling the other phones so, in your words, it's obvious that there is no need to make it bigger. Now your argument is about usability. So now bigger phones aren't usable.

 

Make up your mind, man. It's hard to keep track of all your bullshit.

 

Needing a different resolution? Huh. Explained twice before. No new resolution needed.

I still don't buy that Apple is losing that many customers. On my many visits to my local VZW store I've actually seen the trend be the opposite, many people buying a iiPhone that previously owned a Android. I'd say that they've gained much more than they've lost.

That's up to the people managing the supply chain. If they think they will be able to increase sales with a bigger phone and that increase justifies selling two versions side by side differentiated only by screen size, then they have a reason to. But it's not just sourcing a bigger screen, it's retooling the whole process, using bigger batteries, moving the camera, having another set of backplates to match up.

I think people will hold them side by side with the same resolution and one will be scaled up, more blurry and more expensive. I like big screens and I thought the iPhone 4 screen was too small but I think the comfortable limit is the iPhone 5 and I don't think it would be good to sell two side by side with just a screen size change.

People pay $100 for 16GB of storage so I could see people paying $100 for an extra 0.5" screen but it's easy for Apple to switch the storage. A new screen is effectively a new model of phone.

I didn't say bigger phones are unusable, I said they affect usability and it conflicts with their specific marketing for the iPhone 5. My argument includes both of the following, not one or the other:

- the iPhone 5 is outselling all larger models of phone (it could even be double the S3) so it's wrong to suggest that demand is enough reason to make a bigger phone
- Apple specifically marketed the iPhone 5 by suggesting they've reached the limit of what is comfortable for one-handed use. They could market an iPhone 5S+ by acknowledging that people have different sized hands but the supply chain changes required just don't look worth it.

Can't be that hard if you managed it.

So they just stretch it, lower the PPI and they're selling a model with a worse spec at a higher pirce.

 

1. The 4S outsold the S3 so reason number 1 is fallacious.

 

2. I've never seen any marketing that suggests that Apple "has reached the limit of what is comfortable for one-handed use". So reason number 2 is fallacious.

 

3. Lower the PPI? Solipsism already explained that. So reason number 3 is fallacious.

 

Higher price? How much more did the 5 cost than the 4S?

Just release the beeping 5 inch iPhone.  

 

They have the beautiful ipod touch and iPad mini designs.  Just do it.

 

Two models of Phone.  (3 if they make the for 'kids/teens/skinflints' iPhone...)

 

Job done.

 

Lots of colours.

 

Different price brackets to suck the air out of the Android room.

 

I'm surprised it's taking them this long in light of their iPod strategy.

 

Need to diversify a little.  £500+ is a lot of money.

 

£250 low end.  £400 middle and £500+ for cheap-er, standard 4 inch and 5 inched high end puts the boot into the Android market and Samesung.

 

Lemon Bon Bon.

That's in agreement with what I said though. I was saying that how much anybody else's phone sells doesn't dictate what they do with their phone. They changed the screen because they decided the change was better. If they'd decided going even bigger was better, they wouldn't have stopped where they did.

You've probably seen them but you interpret it differently. On 4 occasions they specifically mention the dimensions they chose being selected for comfort and the second video shows the thumb fully extended to get to the top of the display:

Ive and Forstall in their marketing video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xNsGNlDb6xY

In the marketing video dedicated to it:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A1Rc4MDmr8o

and Schiller at the launch event:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SHWThzQAJ44

That was about the iPad Mini. They sold the 3GS at the same time as the 4 and 4S too but the better models are always at the top. With gigantiPhone, the lower PPI model would be at the top, which they've never done.

Right now the iPhone 5 costs $100 more than the 4S:

http://www.att.com/shop/wireless/devices/apple/iphone/5-16gb-black.html
http://www.att.com/shop/wireless/devices/apple/iphone/4s-16gb-black.html

I guess you mean how much does the iPhone 5 cost now vs the iPhone 4S last year, suggesting that the bigger screen has added nothing to the price. However, a bigger model would need an entirely different production line and would most definitely have a lower volume of customers.

Like I say, if they think the benefits of doing it justify that expense, so be it. The iPad Mini made sense as they hit a lower price point and made a much more portable device.

GigantiPhone doesn't hit a lower price, will have a lower PPI and will require a lot of expense to have a separate manufacturing line.

I accept some people would be happier with a bigger phone, I don't think it makes sense for Apple to make one and I don't think they are losing a lot of sales because of it. Their target audience would be S3 buyers but the S3 only sold 15 million. Are they going to get 10 million of them over to an iPhone with 0.5"-1"?

 

This is your original argument (which differs considerably from your argument above):

 

"A few people saying 'I want one' isn't enough to be the right reason. There would have to be significant market demand, which isn't demonstrated in the sales figures when the iPhone 5 outsells all of them:"

 

I read that to say, "since the iPhone 5 outsells all the big phones then there is not that much market demand for big phones and therefore no reason to make a bigger phone".

 

So, as I said originally; Your argument then could logically be used to say; "since the 4 and 4S outsell all the big phones then there is not that much market demand for big phones and therefore no reason to make a bigger phone".

 

... but Apple did make a bigger phone.

 

This comfort level argument you're using is pure speculation... unless you've been in the lab with Ive. It sounds like that filing down your fingers bullshit argument against building a smaller iPad. That is unless you believe Ive and company of being inadequate and stupid and unable to solve any size related problems.

 

I firmly believe that if "Apple" built a bigger iPhone it would once again prove the naysayers such as yourself that it's iOS that people want and it would sell at least 15-20 million units per quarter. Not the numbers of the iPhone 5 or 4s or 4 but large enough numbers to keep people from being directed to Android if they "want" a larger phone.

 

 

 

I guess you haven't been following Apple for the last few years. They do a lot of things that they've never done before.

These comments are hilarious.  First the 3.5" screen was "perfect," now suddenly the 4" screen is perfect.  There is no "perfect."  Good thing Apple had, and largely still has, a product that everyone wanted or they would have gotten smoked with the marketing strategy they employed.   Bottom line now is as the differences between products narrow Apple has to compete in any way that makes financial sense.  Clearly there is a market for a bigger phone so unless it is cost prohibitive there is absolutely no reason besides arrogance to not go after it.   Forget the fact that more iOS devices in use mean more revenue from software sales and advertising it's just the nature of business.  For that matter they need a cheaper phone for developing markets...actually should have released one already.

 

When Ford came out with the model T I'm guessing there was no reason to have much variety.  As more competition came along so did the need to have different size, shapes and color cars.  Imagine McDonalds selling one size burger or Nike one type of sneaker.  Jobs was conceited and fortunately for him had a product that was years ahead of the competition so he got away with it.

There is so much wrong in your post and with your logic. Shows and fast food are valid examples? Really? And since when did Apple ever say that 3.5" was perfect in the sense that it was the only size that should ever be on a phone? They clearly didn't.

As with everything Apple does they make compromises to create a product that suits their needs best. You can't have a 50" iPhone because it's no longer portable and you can't have a 1" iPhone because it's no longer useful They compromised in every way to make a product they felt was most ideal. The most perfect device they can create is not the same as there will never need to be any changes made ever again.

And lets look at McDonald's. Where is the $40 filet mignon or the fresh lobster tail? McDonald's has the money and there is a market for those dishes so according to you they should be doing it except for the fact they are conceited and arrogant. Surely you see how foolish a suggestion that is and hopefully by now you can see that just because a company (or a person) can do something that it means they are required to.

I don't think he meant that it was Apple's claim you just assumed it, but various sites did claim that it was the perfect size and couldn't see Apple changing it, and now they claim the new size is perfect.

I didn't say there was no reason to make a phone with a larger display other than market demand. I provided a few reasons for going widescreen a while ago without even considering the competition:

http://forums.appleinsider.com/t/112805/iphone-4w-widescreen

I haven't seen any reasons to justify why they should go bigger than the iPhone 5 besides people saying they want a bigger screen and citing great demand for this, which I countered by pointing out that the demand for larger screens isn't as high as people suggest if the iPhone 5 outsells all of them.

Apple has said many times that they specifically stuck with the same width because it's comfortable to hold and use with one hand so there has to be a good reason to go against that.

I provided 3 videos where multiple Apple SVPs say that quite explicitly. You'd have to be speculating to suggest they all meant something other than what they are saying.

The iPad Mini worked because it retained a 1024 x 768 resolution like the iPad 2 so developers didn't have more work.

What are those figures based on? You don't know the size of the device, the price point, the potential market but you believe that simply because it's bigger, that's the amount of customers it will get. That's what analysts do - more colors , more sizes, cheaper models, pick a randomly high number of potential sales.

When they have good reason to do them. If they made a bigger iPhone with a higher resolution (like the iPhone 5), you could do more on-screen at a time but then developers have to do extra work (in this case, for a smaller audience). If they maintain the same resolution, as you suggested, you can't actually do anything more on-screen, it's just scaled up, which is equivalent to holding the phone a little closer.

Apple should make a bigger iPhone because:
- old people can't see very well
- some people are bigger
What other reasons were there?

My iPad mini feelings are that they won't make it Retina until it's technically feasible, which to means it doesn't hurt the usability by adding any weight, thickness, or drop in battery life -and- when the cost can still be reasonable with that 326 PPI display, which is the sample pixel density panels as the current iPhone.

My larger iPhone scenario was it being 4.904" as that would be the size of the display if you used the same pixel density panels as the 9.7" Retina iPad with the same resolution (1136x640) as the current iPhone, which is the same methodology they used with the iPad mini but in the other direction.

Even if the market is large enough I have no idea if that device would makes for a good user experience. For starters is going to 264 PPI on iOS for iPhone going to affect way it looks? Going smaller on the iPad mini made it all tighter as just 8 months earlier we had the 9.7" iPad at 132 PPI and the iPad mini is 163 PPI. I don't think anything less than a full scale working demo in Apple's labs would be needed to know for sure.

Finally, is there is a market. The Galaxy Note looks like it's popular, at least in shipping numbers. And there are other Android-based devices that seem to be popular at the large size. Anecdotally I can say that everyone I know with an Android-based phone has a big ass phone but what I experience does not a market make. Lets consider that that these huge Android-based phones only sprung up when LTE arrived and the large, power-hungry chips weren't going to work in the previous size device. Could this be a fad that sprang out of some "oh, that's different" desire like we saw with the now defunct netbook market that Apple so desperately had to get into or risk losing all Mac sales to competitors or is this something that enough people really want?

 

No. You people need to stop making up definitions for words.

Show me a dictionary that defines niche as a "small space." Niche means specialized.

Here's New Oxford English Dictionary's definition (the relevant one):

 

 

 

Got it?

A possible solution to the whole "I want big" - no - "I want small" debate, is to do something like what Samsung is rumored to be coming out with:

 

A foldable phone.  Closed, it could be the size of the current iPhone.  Open, you'd get double the screen space.  (Yes, this has been tried before, but with a huge seam down the middle.  A tiny or no seam should sell better.)

 

 

 

(Some rumors say the Samsung foldable will have one large 5.3" flexible screen that folds in half. Some claim two such screens. The name is supposedly the "Galaxy Q.")

Edited by KDarling - 2/6/13 at 7:35pm

 

Millions and millions, huh? Says who?

 

Nice to see Samsung using Apple-owned icons in their concepts.

Apple should give the customer the option. Choice is king

Young people and old people don't all see well. I've had eye surgery and have a hard time reading the screen from normal distances. Had Apple kept the original 3.5" phone for the small-handed and created the iPhone 5 as a higher-resolution, 4.5", wide-screen phone they would have been in better shape than they are now. Anyone who's used the Mini after using the iPad 3 knows that scaling up the iPhone resolution to a 5" phone is dumb. They are sticking hard to factors of their original resolution and have painted themselves into a corner. Come up with a resolution that will allow for 360-400 ppi on a larger phone, give developers time to update their apps, then release a new phone along with the 4" phone. Choice is good. I had a Droid X a couple of phones back and I miss the 4.3" screen.

Why do people keep making out that they are doing badly? They sold 48 million phones last quarter vs 37 million in the same quarter last year = 30% growth. How can you get in better shape than having the best selling smartphone in the world? They make 60% more profit than Samsung while Samsung ships 30% more phones and Samsung sells TVs, printers, cameras, home appliances, medical devices etc which get lumped in with their revenue figures.

There are a couple of videos here directly comparing the iPhone 5 with the Note 2 and S3:




This guy has fairly large hands and the Note 2 is clearly not a one-handed device (2:40) so this size of device (5.5") would have to be marketed as a phablet. Apple has made it clear that software should be optimized for the screen size but it would be too small and the wrong aspect for iPad software and too large for iPhone software.
In the S3 video, when he puts the iPhone 5 on top of the S3 (0:30), the phone dimensions are very similar. At 8:58, he comments on one-handed use and at 11:06 you can see there's no way that top-left corner of the screen is easily reachable - that's not just for the back button.



The Samsung Galaxy - designed for humans... with giant thumbs, like Uma Thurman.

is your mom going to call you on Skype? And do you want another phone bill? Samsung and other Android vendors have been selling 7" phablets with GSM SIM card for a while: another market segment Apple has no exposure to.

 

It's the "way" on the low end with which most people take issue.

 

 

Except they quite evidently aren't.

 

Apple does worst when it gives people exactly what they think they want.