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Apple looking to expand role of Siri as an 'OS within an OS' - Page 2

post #41 of 65
2/5/13 at 5:20pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by LighteningKid View Post

Oh, I'm with you, I think most people understand each other just fine. I just think it's ironic that Tallest didn't just tell him he's wrong, he implied he didn't understand him, which lends some support to the very statement that Tallest was disagreeing with.

Accurate communication isn't as natural as we like to think. TV Shows and Movies are often based around miscommunication as the catalyst for a dramatic situation.

Consider their are about 9 billion people in the world and of those you can only communicate well with a small fraction of them. Of the people that fluently understand our language there are still few that wills understand your points of view. You can try but the chance of something being understood the way you want it understowod with a few simple words is highly unlikely. The most complex the more difficult it is.

Look at the failure rate of relationships and the common reason of couples of communicating with each well which can lead to therapy and perhaps separation. Look at math word problems. Ever not grasped something until it was explained a different way or when words were replaced with images or video?

Language in the written or spoken form is highly imprecise. I can't even say a simple 2 word sentence without there being a multiples of meanings and spellings for each word. We can process this easily because we are human just like we can process faces but a computer needs more precision and to make it simply work, which isn't going to happen, so we end up with a very complex and imperfect system.

PS: If there are autocorrect typos I'm not changing them as it proves my point. If that isn't what you meant by saying "we understand each other just fine" we'll that proves my point, two.

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post #42 of 65
2/5/13 at 5:44pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by LighteningKid View Post

Oh, I'm with you, I think most people understand each other just fine. I just think it's ironic that Tallest didn't just tell him he's wrong, he implied he didn't understand him, which lends some support to the very statement that Tallest was disagreeing with.

Accurate communication isn't as natural as we like to think. TV Shows and Movies are often based around miscommunication as the catalyst for a dramatic situation.

Consider their are about 9 billion people in the world and of those you can only communicate well with a small fraction of them. Of the people that fluently understand our language there are still few that wills understand your points of view. You can try but the chance of something being understood the way you want it understowod with a few simple words is highly unlikely. The most complex the more difficult it is.

Look at the failure rate of relationships and the common reason of couples of communicating with each well which can lead to therapy and perhaps separation. Look at math word problems. Ever not grasped something until it was explained a different way or when words were replaced with images or video?

Language in the written or spoken form is highly imprecise. I can't even say a simple 2 word sentence without there being a multiples of meanings and spellings for each word. We can process this easily because we are human just like we can process faces but a computer needs more precision and to make it simply work, which isn't going to happen, so we end up with a very complex and imperfect system.

PS: If there are autocorrect typos I'm not changing them as it proves my point. If that isn't what you meant by saying "we understand each other just fine" we'll that proves my point, two.

 

that that is is that that is not is not is not that it that it is

"So at the end of the presentation, Steve came up to me and said: Is the iPhone worth criticizing? And I said: Make the screen five inches by eight inches, and you’ll rule the world."
– Alan Kay –
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"So at the end of the presentation, Steve came up to me and said: Is the iPhone worth criticizing? And I said: Make the screen five inches by eight inches, and you’ll rule the world."
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post #43 of 65
2/5/13 at 5:45pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post

 

What does that sound like?    "Don'tcha know what that's aboot, y'all?"

 

(From a Minnesotan who moved to LaLa Land)  Slange!

 

O.o 

 

How did you know?  heehee, it pretty much is that, exactly.  And picture this guy trying to talk about hockey with a bunch of rednecks in Georgia.  It just doesn't work. 

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post #44 of 65
2/5/13 at 5:48pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post


In all seriousness I can see a Siri based home entertainment working. Siri would still have to be initiated which is why I'd expect it to be a BT remote that would have a button that would call Siri to listen via microphones on your remote that would then send it to whatever device is controlling the content for the TV. You could even make it intelligent enough that it could pick up the content coming from the TV so it can cancel that out from your voice so it wouldn't have to momentarily mute the TV when you said, "Record Comedy Central from 11pm to Midnight MOnday through Thursday."

 

Yep, I can see this working.  I just realllly think it'll all be tied back to the iPhone/iPad/iPod as a centralized "remote."  

 

"Siri, turn my Nest thermostat down to 67 degrees, turn the bedroom lights down to 25% brightness and play some Marvin Gaye"

 

;-)

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post #45 of 65
2/5/13 at 5:51pm
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post
that that is is that that is not is not is not that it that it is

 

James while John had had had had had had had had had had had a better effect on the teacher.

PhilBoogie
That's Google alright. For a stupid company they sure do dumb things.
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PhilBoogie
That's Google alright. For a stupid company they sure do dumb things.
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post #46 of 65
2/5/13 at 6:03pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post

that that is is that that is not is not is not that it that it is

Is that Morse Code?
"A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject" - Winston Churchill
"Just because something is deemed the law doesn't make it just" - SolipsismX
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"A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject" - Winston Churchill
"Just because something is deemed the law doesn't make it just" - SolipsismX
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post #47 of 65
2/5/13 at 6:11pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by allenbf View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post

 

What does that sound like?    "Don'tcha know what that's aboot, y'all?"

 

(From a Minnesotan who moved to LaLa Land)  Slange!

 

O.o 

 

How did you know?  heehee, it pretty much is that, exactly.  And picture this guy trying to talk about hockey with a bunch of rednecks in Georgia.  It just doesn't work. 

 

LOL!   Exactly!

"So at the end of the presentation, Steve came up to me and said: Is the iPhone worth criticizing? And I said: Make the screen five inches by eight inches, and you’ll rule the world."
– Alan Kay –
Reply
"So at the end of the presentation, Steve came up to me and said: Is the iPhone worth criticizing? And I said: Make the screen five inches by eight inches, and you’ll rule the world."
– Alan Kay –
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post #48 of 65
2/5/13 at 6:14pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by dasanman69 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post

that that is is that that is not is not is not that it that it is

Is that Morse Code?

 

Punctuation...

 

That, that is, is...

 

That, that is not, is not...

 

Is not that it?

 

That it is!

"So at the end of the presentation, Steve came up to me and said: Is the iPhone worth criticizing? And I said: Make the screen five inches by eight inches, and you’ll rule the world."
– Alan Kay –
Reply
"So at the end of the presentation, Steve came up to me and said: Is the iPhone worth criticizing? And I said: Make the screen five inches by eight inches, and you’ll rule the world."
– Alan Kay –
Reply
post #49 of 65
2/5/13 at 6:25pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post

Punctuation...

That, that is, is...

That, that is not, is not...

Is not that it?

That it is!

OMG really? Since when? Then what did you say?
"A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject" - Winston Churchill
"Just because something is deemed the law doesn't make it just" - SolipsismX
Reply
"A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject" - Winston Churchill
"Just because something is deemed the law doesn't make it just" - SolipsismX
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post #50 of 65
2/5/13 at 9:25pm

So, the return of Sherlock.

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post #51 of 65
2/6/13 at 4:19am
Quote:
Originally Posted by cnocbui View Post

I'm probably the only person who thinks this, but I don't want to control devices by talking to them and would find it a purchase impediment if it were a ubiquitous requirement.
 

 

It would be an option, obviously, and not a requirement - otherwise i-Device use would be banned in libraries, places of worship, auction houses etc, and people incapable of speech or whose only language is not supported would not be able to use the device. 

Quote:
Originally Posted by allenbf View Post

 

I tend to agree if the device is being used in public...I tend not to use Siri in public - but I'd love to use Siri with the Apple Remote app, on the rumored Applevision. 

 

"Siri...find episodes of "How I Met Your Mother" from 2009"

 

Siri is great when she doesn't time out on me.  I'd love to see them fix that first.

 

I'm increasingly using Siri in public when I'm alone or in a group to facilitate (joint) action - find the nearest ATM, Bank branch, restaurant etc and give directions to them, weather forecast for a destination, train times, currency conversion etc; it curiously becomes a part of our group discussion and decision-making (most of my colleagues either have iPhones or have gotten over the novelty of Siri-provided solutions) and it sometimes raises a chuckle or sneer ("What would you do without me?" is one of its common "boasts" when providing answers!  ).

 

The trick is in learning to operate within Siri's limitations, as well as using the same flaws to entertain others even when it fails dismally.


Edited by airmanchairman - 2/6/13 at 6:09am
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post #52 of 65
2/6/13 at 7:04am
Has anyone else noticed Siri losing her mind lately and not keeping track of conversation threads as well?

Me: "What is xxx" (I forget the original query)
Siri: "I don't know. Would you like me to search the web?"
Me: "Yes, search the web"
Siri: "I thought so"

...and then nothing.
Edited by LarryA - 2/6/13 at 7:12am

iPhone 4s, iMac, Apple TV 2nd Gen, iPod Nano

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iPhone 4s, iMac, Apple TV 2nd Gen, iPod Nano

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post #53 of 65
2/6/13 at 10:18am
Quote:
Originally Posted by LarryA View Post

Has anyone else noticed Siri losing her mind lately and not keeping track of conversation threads as well?

Me: "What is xxx" (I forget the original query)
Siri: "I don't know. Would you like me to search the web?"
Me: "Yes, search the web"
Siri: "I thought so"

...and then nothing.

 

"What's the difference between Siri and the Panama Canal?"

 

"The Panama Canal is a Busy Ditch"

"So at the end of the presentation, Steve came up to me and said: Is the iPhone worth criticizing? And I said: Make the screen five inches by eight inches, and you’ll rule the world."
– Alan Kay –
Reply
"So at the end of the presentation, Steve came up to me and said: Is the iPhone worth criticizing? And I said: Make the screen five inches by eight inches, and you’ll rule the world."
– Alan Kay –
Reply
post #54 of 65
2/6/13 at 10:29am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post

 

"What's the difference between Siri and the Panama Canal?"

 

"The Panama Canal is a Busy Ditch"

ROTFL!

melior diabolus quem scies

"No theatrics and no more personal attacks, just stick to the logic and tell me why I don't have any argument ~ Jragosta/2012

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melior diabolus quem scies

"No theatrics and no more personal attacks, just stick to the logic and tell me why I don't have any argument ~ Jragosta/2012

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post #55 of 65
2/6/13 at 1:57pm
Maybe this would make sence, if apple truly wanted the best cheap phone on the market, reduce the price to a minimum, by hitting the market with a screen less phone, a approach like iPod shuffle yet it has Siri, home button (or d pad) it plays music, does phone calls, voice only apps, AirPlay (use as voice remote for full IOS on the screen.
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post #56 of 65
2/6/13 at 2:05pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Curtis Hannah View Post

Maybe this would make sence, if apple truly wanted the best cheap phone on the market, reduce the price to a minimum, by hitting the market with a screen less phone, a approach like iPod shuffle yet it has Siri, home button (or d pad) it plays music, does phone calls, voice only apps, AirPlay (use as voice remote for full IOS on the screen.

 

Yes!  Something about the size of the current AppleTV Remote -- that can interface with the iPad Mini when needed.   Want talk use the StickPhone -- want to see/surf/navigate use the iPad Mini.  Both use a common SIM and Voice/Message/Data plan.

"So at the end of the presentation, Steve came up to me and said: Is the iPhone worth criticizing? And I said: Make the screen five inches by eight inches, and you’ll rule the world."
– Alan Kay –
Reply
"So at the end of the presentation, Steve came up to me and said: Is the iPhone worth criticizing? And I said: Make the screen five inches by eight inches, and you’ll rule the world."
– Alan Kay –
Reply
post #57 of 65
2/6/13 at 10:08pm

Originally Posted by cnocbui View Post

I'm probably the only person who thinks this, but I don't want to control devices by talking to them and would find it a purchase impediment if it were a ubiquitous requirement.


Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

It'll never be a requirement for use.

 

Yup, just like internet access would never be a requirement for getting something as simple as Finder help.  Seriously, I'm in the process of setting up a new machine with Mountain Lion, just clicked the Help menu in the Finder and almost nothing is available.  I can see the machine attempting to hit the network, but no help seems to be available locally.  WTF?!  Ridiculous.

 

I can just hear some punk-ass kids saying "what kind of computer would ever not have constant, unfettered access to the internet? *sneer* ", and I would merely say that many, many security-conscious labs have computers that can't touch an outside network.  

 

Anyway, I'm not suggesting that we will indeed be forced to access all of our iDevice functionality by voice any time soon, but it's dangerous to say anything will never be a requirement.


Edited by Blah64 - 2/6/13 at 10:16pm
No Matte == No Sale :-(
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No Matte == No Sale :-(
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post #58 of 65
2/6/13 at 10:14pm

Originally Posted by cnocbui View Post

I'm probably the only person who thinks this, but I don't want to control devices by talking to them and would find it a purchase impediment if it were a ubiquitous requirement.

 

Oh, and I'd never use this dictation crap in any case.  Never going to send Apple my voiceprint, just to (potentially) save a few keystrokes.  It's so sad how everyone turns over their entire fucking lives and identity to a handful of internet powerhouse companies.  Yes, Apple is an internet company these days, almost as much as Google, Yahoo, etc. 

No Matte == No Sale :-(
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No Matte == No Sale :-(
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post #59 of 65
2/6/13 at 10:20pm
Originally Posted by Blah64 View Post

…it's dangerous to say anything will never be a requirement.

 

Equally dangerous to claim that it will be.

PhilBoogie
That's Google alright. For a stupid company they sure do dumb things.
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PhilBoogie
That's Google alright. For a stupid company they sure do dumb things.
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post #60 of 65
2/6/13 at 10:23pm
640K ought to be enough for anybody.
Even if you disagree, he is entitled to his opinion, isn't he? Just as you're entitled to your blinders? (Stelligent)
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Even if you disagree, he is entitled to his opinion, isn't he? Just as you're entitled to your blinders? (Stelligent)
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post #61 of 65
2/7/13 at 1:50pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post

Yes!  Something about the size of the current AppleTV Remote -- that can interface with the iPad Mini when needed.   Want talk use the StickPhone -- want to see/surf/navigate use the iPad Mini.  Both use a common SIM and Voice/Message/Data plan.
Yes a target for people who can't afford a major phone, they could call it IPhone shuffle(all it would be is a iPod shuffle with a phone incorporated

Of corse with a boost
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post #62 of 65
2/7/13 at 6:05pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by joelsalt View Post

I have no problem with people making fun of us Canadians, but no one here sounds like that! Maybe Newfoundland, but more often than not people doing "Canadian" accents end up sounding like Minnesotans !

Yeah, ya kinda do sound like that. I lived along the Ontario border for years. To deny a simple accent I've always found stupid. No Southerner or New Yorker denies their accents.
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post #63 of 65
2/11/13 at 6:06pm
Siri is the worst personal assistant I've ever had. Every time I ask her to send a text message, she gives me about 1.5 seconds of talk time before she decides it's time to send the text. Infuriating.
I got nothin'.
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I got nothin'.
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post #64 of 65
2/12/13 at 9:22am
Originally Posted by godrifle View Post
Siri is the worst personal assistant I've ever had. Every time I ask her to send a text message, she gives me about 1.5 seconds of talk time before she decides it's time to send the text. Infuriating.

 

Well, it's a text, after all. She's telling you to be more succinct. 1wink.gif

PhilBoogie
That's Google alright. For a stupid company they sure do dumb things.
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PhilBoogie
That's Google alright. For a stupid company they sure do dumb things.
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post #65 of 65
2/12/13 at 11:06am
Quote:
Originally Posted by timmillea View Post

That would be a big mistake. Two people generally cannot understand each other. To ask a device to understand someone better than a friend is asking more than the state of the art can deliver. These are boundaries which Apple & associates have no prospect of breaching any time soon. The user experience would be poor and reflect badly upon Apple.


It is a worthy challenge for the next generation of Apple - not the current incumbents.
It is possible the exact issue you refer to, i.e. the lack of understanding between two people, is actually less of an issue with Siri (maybe not now but in the future). Humans listen through filters of personal agendas, experiences and biases hence you are correct to say they generally don't necessarily understand acurately a lot of what is communicated to them much of the time. This isn't true of a computer thus far, so as long as the system is robust it should do pretty well.
Been using Apples since 1978 and Macs since 1984
Long on AAPL so biased. Strong advocate for separation of technology and politics on AI.
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Been using Apples since 1978 and Macs since 1984
Long on AAPL so biased. Strong advocate for separation of technology and politics on AI.
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