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Amazon says Kindle Fire HD has comparable screen, lower price tag than iPad

post #1 of 52
2/5/13 at 9:16pm
Thread Starter 
Internet shopping giant Amazon is taking the iPad head-on in a new commercial by pitting Apple's tablet against the Kindle Fire HD, suggesting the two devices have comparable screen resolutions, but vastly different price points.

Kindle Fire HD Ad


While Amazon's latest ad offers little in the way of specific details, it does relay the message that the starting price of the Kindle Fire HD is $200 less than a similarly equipped iPad.

In actuality, Apple's iPad bests the Fire HD's display in both size and pixel density, with a 9.7-inch panel boasting a resolution of 264 pixels per inch. As noted by BGR, Amazon's tablet uses an 8.9-inch LCD built at a slightly lower-resolution 254ppi pixel density.


Source: Amazon's Kindle YouTube Channel


A report on Tuesday found that Amazon's share of the North American tablet market crept up to 7.8 percent at the end of January, making the Kindle second only to Apple's iPad, which garnered an 81 percent share over the same period.

Apple is rumored to be preparing a high-resolution 324ppi Retina display for the next iteration of the iPad mini, the company's 7.9-inch tablet that carries a price more in line with Amazon's Kind Fire HD.
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post #2 of 52
2/5/13 at 9:21pm
While Amazon's latest ad offers little in the way of specific details, it does relay the message that the starting price of the Kindle Fire HD is $200 less than a similarly equipped iPad.

 

That's the only message that any of these fools ever push. Same with Dell, HP, and that lot. "It's cheaper. Shut up and buy our stuff instead."

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post #3 of 52
2/5/13 at 9:22pm

Because they do, and it does.

How is this news?

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post #4 of 52
2/5/13 at 9:34pm

Amazon is winning the race to the bottom of the not-quite-9.7" tablet market.

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post #5 of 52
2/5/13 at 9:35pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cash907 View Post

Because they do, and it does.

How is this news?

 

AppleInsider will combine a few molehills like this together and post an article stating how Apple is losing its "cool factor" or some such nonsense.

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post #6 of 52
2/5/13 at 9:51pm
Of course they are comparable. And when I compare them I see that the iPad is better. How is this something to brag about?

Might as well say that having an unexpected phone call from the wife is comparable to a weeklong vacation with her on the beach in costa rica.
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post #7 of 52
2/5/13 at 9:56pm
Ford says Mondeo has 2L engine just like 3 series BMW, but is much cheaper.
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post #8 of 52
2/5/13 at 9:56pm

Wait, there's stuff out there cheaper than Apple devices? STOP THE PRESSES! APPLE IS DOOMED!

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post #9 of 52
2/5/13 at 11:24pm
Wall Street likes cheap and can see no difference between a tablet Amazon sells and a tablet Apple sells. In theory, they both do pretty much the same thing but one costs $200 less which means Amazon should be able to sell twice as many Kindle Fires than Apple can sell iPads which should ultimately lead to greater market share. Greater market share is the only thing that matters to Wall Street. Things like higher quality and better customer service mean nothing. As far as Wall Street is concerned, Apple is just throwing away money trying to build a better product.

If it was up to Wall Street all luxury car companies should get out of the business because any of those higher cost vehicles could easily be replaced by low-priced Kias and Toyotas which basically do the same thing as luxury vehicles do. Wall Street's motto is "We'll happily settle for lower-quality products as long as you can sell a lot of them." Wall Street believes Apple is doomed because it can't have the largest market share due to charging too much for its products.
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post #10 of 52
2/5/13 at 11:28pm
This is why Apple make profit and Amazon turns in a loss. How are Amazon still in business???
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post #11 of 52
2/5/13 at 11:35pm
How much AAPL will drop tonight on this news ?
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post #12 of 52
2/5/13 at 11:55pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

 

That's the only message that any of these fools ever push. Same with Dell, HP, and that lot. "It's cheaper. Shut up and buy our stuff instead."

But they forget to tell you that there aren't many decent apps for these other competing products and when you get them there isn't much you can do with them.

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post #13 of 52
2/6/13 at 12:15am

Since Wall Street loves margins so much, how much is Amazon's margin on this tablet again?

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post #14 of 52
2/6/13 at 12:22am
@shen How about a weeklong vacation with the hot office secretary and an unexpected call from the wife?

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post #15 of 52
2/6/13 at 1:09am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Apple ][ View Post

Since Wall Street loves margins so much, how much is Amazon's margin on this tablet again?

 

When it comes to Amazon's margin, Wall Street doesn't give a shit, strangely. Wall Street also still doesnt get that Apple doesn't make a new product just for the hell of it, in pursuit of marketshare. Short-sighted, as always.

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post #16 of 52
2/6/13 at 2:03am
My co-worker bought the first Kindle Fire, but was looking to get the Samsung for an upgrade. I'll bet customer loyalty on all Android devices is practically zero, and price is heading in the same direction. This is good and bad for Apple.
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post #17 of 52
2/6/13 at 3:58am

why do i feel like i stepped back in time?

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post #18 of 52
2/6/13 at 4:08am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Constable Odo View Post

Wall Street likes cheap and can see no difference between a tablet Amazon sells and a tablet Apple sells. In theory, they both do pretty much the same thing but one costs $200 less which means Amazon should be able to sell twice as many Kindle Fires than Apple can sell iPads which should ultimately lead to greater market share. Greater market share is the only thing that matters to Wall Street. Things like higher quality and better customer service mean nothing. As far as Wall Street is concerned, Apple is just throwing away money trying to build a better product.

Several problems with that.

1. Even at a lower price, Amazon is not selling twice as many. In fact, Amazon is only selling a fraction as many Kindles as Apple is selling iPads.

2. Even if Amazon WERE selling more Kindles, it's hard to see how that gets investors excited. Selling millions of tablets with a nice profit or twice as many at break-even or much lower profit? You'd think that they'd learn.

It just doesn't make sense. AMZN has far lower profitability and worse future projections yet they're trading at a huge premium in terms of every parameter - P/E multiple, multiple of assets, multiple of book value, multiple of sales, multiple of shareholder's equity, etc. There's just not rational explanation.
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post #19 of 52
2/6/13 at 4:12am
They're trying to make the sales to people who don't know about tablets. While people who post on sites like this will have all kinds of data about the differences between the two platforms and various products, most people haven't a clue. So Amazon is giving them a clue, 'We're comparable at a much lower price.' Since there is no set criteria for what is 'comparable' they won't be sued. While the car metaphor is apt, it doesn't work for a lot of people because they don't make that cognitive leap.

When I tell people about the virtues of buying an Apple product, they often bring up the matter of price. Even being the cheap bastard that I am, I fail to make that cognitive leap. Having only purchased Apple computers, I always figure that the price paid is simply what computers cost. Those $300-$400 computers in the ads don't register as computers to me.

Owning an iPad and having picked up a Kindle Fire, the ad pisses me off. The experiences and the devices aren't comparable. I feel the same way about Samsung products, but I recognize that as my own prejudice, since I, like everyone else, will subconsciously seek out data to support what I already believe to be true.

I know some people will see the commercial and believe the Kindle is a better buy. Good on them. Other people will know better. Good on us.
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post #20 of 52
2/6/13 at 4:44am
Quote:
Originally Posted by WisdomSeed View Post

They're trying to make the sales to people who don't know about tablets. While people who post on sites like this will have all kinds of data about the differences between the two platforms and various products, most people haven't a clue. So Amazon is giving them a clue, 'We're comparable at a much lower price.' Since there is no set criteria for what is 'comparable' they won't be sued. While the car metaphor is apt, it doesn't work for a lot of people because they don't make that cognitive leap.

When I tell people about the virtues of buying an Apple product, they often bring up the matter of price. Even being the cheap bastard that I am, I fail to make that cognitive leap. Having only purchased Apple computers, I always figure that the price paid is simply what computers cost. Those $300-$400 computers in the ads don't register as computers to me.

Owning an iPad and having picked up a Kindle Fire, the ad pisses me off. The experiences and the devices aren't comparable. I feel the same way about Samsung products, but I recognize that as my own prejudice, since I, like everyone else, will subconsciously seek out data to support what I already believe to be true.

I know some people will see the commercial and believe the Kindle is a better buy. Good on them. Other people will know better. Good on us.

The Kindle probably IS a better buy - if all you're ever going to do with the device is read Kindle books. Different people have different needs.

Of course, the implication that it's a better buy for the average tablet purchaser is much more questionable.
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post #21 of 52
2/6/13 at 5:16am
Everyone says (assumes?) the Kindle Fire is the major contender for sales compared to the iPad but I've been wondering if that's really the case. I've seen several friends carrying around Nooks but I have yet to see a single touchscreen Kindle around town. Did either company ever actually release their sales figures?
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post #22 of 52
2/6/13 at 5:42am

It's quite a fraud. The iPad has 36% more pixels.  The iPad's 4:3 aspect ratio compared to the Kindle's 16:10 (4:2.5) makes the difference as big as it does.

 

iPad: 2048x1536, Kindle: 1920x1200.  You can do the math for yourself.

 

The iPad has a rear-facing and a front-facing camera, but the Kindle just has a front-facing.  Amazon tries to tell you to take pictures with a front-facing camera (are they keeping a straight face?)

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post #23 of 52
2/6/13 at 5:43am

I owned the first Kindle Fire (this was when I liked OSX but really didn't care about iOS devices). It was a terrible device with a terrible UI, and since it didn't have any of Google's apps it was missing the best thing about Android.

 

Anyone who can spend $300 on a media consumption device can spend $500, not to mention that the $500 device can do a hell of a lot more. Still, a lot of people will buy Kindle Fires just to save $200, but they will come to regret it.

 

Now that all of Amazon's services are on iOS, there is simply no reason for someone who's into Amazon's ecosystem not to get an iPad if they want a tablet.


Edited by guaihu - 2/6/13 at 6:23am

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post #24 of 52
2/6/13 at 5:49am
Quote:
Originally Posted by 6ryph3n View Post

Everyone says (assumes?) the Kindle Fire is the major contender for sales compared to the iPad but I've been wondering if that's really the case. I've seen several friends carrying around Nooks but I have yet to see a single touchscreen Kindle around town. Did either company ever actually release their sales figures?

 

No, AFAIK only Apple releases sales figures.

 

By the way, were they Nook tablets or just Nook e-readers?

 

I have seen exactly one larger (> 7") non-iPad tablet in the wild, and only a handful of Kindle Fires and Nook HDs or whatever they call them now. I don't believe for a moment that iPad's market share is as low as reports suggest.

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post #25 of 52
2/6/13 at 6:21am
Quote:
Originally Posted by GadgetCanada View Post

 

The car on the left drives to the store. The car on the right drives to the store. Cheaper does not mean better.

Better is subjective. The car on the left will break the bank just on gas. Sure, I'd rather drive the one on the left. But I'd rather own the one on the right.

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post #26 of 52
2/6/13 at 6:26am

Does I'm the only one of found tablets with widescreen ratio weird for reading in portrait orientation?  Even weirder for a device sold by a books company.

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post #27 of 52
2/6/13 at 6:52am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Apple ][ View Post

Since Wall Street loves margins so much, how much is Amazon's margin on this tablet again?

Probably -20% since it's sold as a loss "leader" to get people to buy their ebooks. In this case the "leader" part is a joke. 

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post #28 of 52
2/6/13 at 6:54am
Quote:
Originally Posted by GadgetCanada View Post

 

The car on the left drives to the store. The car on the right drives to the store. Cheaper does not mean better.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gustav View Post

Better is subjective. The car on the left will break the bank just on gas. Sure, I'd rather drive the one on the left. But I'd rather own the one on the right.

The car on the left doesn't necessarily get that bad of gas mileage and the clunker on the right might run through a quart of oil a day and in many states might not pass smog checks. Of course, the resell value of the one on the left is much higher than the other one. You'd have to pay someone to take the clunker off your hands (like many tablets).

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post #29 of 52
2/6/13 at 7:36am
Quote:
Originally Posted by MattBookAir View Post

Ford says Mondeo has 2L engine just like 3 series BMW, but is much cheaper.

 

That might actually be true.  The 2.0L Ecoboost is a great engine....

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post #30 of 52
2/6/13 at 8:09am

I like how the iPad has fat man fingers and the Kindle has slender woman fingers.  lol

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post #31 of 52
2/6/13 at 8:46am
So, when the iPad mini with Retina comes out, they'll post a commercial saying "but ours is bigger and still $29 cheaper..."
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post #32 of 52
2/6/13 at 9:02am
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta View Post

...... It just doesn't make sense. AMZN has far lower profitability and worse future projections yet they're trading at a huge premium in terms of every parameter - P/E multiple, multiple of assets, multiple of book value, multiple of sales, multiple of shareholder's equity, etc. There's just not rational explanation.

 jragosta  .... Looking for rational thinking in the stock market will, sooner or later,  drive you insane ..... hence my tagline.

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post #33 of 52
2/6/13 at 9:14am
Quote:
Originally Posted by WisdomSeed View Post

They're trying to make the sales to people who don't know about tablets. While people who post on sites like this will have all kinds of data about the differences between the two platforms and various products, most people haven't a clue. So Amazon is giving them a clue, 'We're comparable at a much lower price.' Since there is no set criteria for what is 'comparable' they won't be sued. While the car metaphor is apt, it doesn't work for a lot of people because they don't make that cognitive leap.

When I tell people about the virtues of buying an Apple product, they often bring up the matter of price. Even being the cheap bastard that I am, I fail to make that cognitive leap. Having only purchased Apple computers, I always figure that the price paid is simply what computers cost. Those $300-$400 computers in the ads don't register as computers to me.

Owning an iPad and having picked up a Kindle Fire, the ad pisses me off. The experiences and the devices aren't comparable. I feel the same way about Samsung products, but I recognize that as my own prejudice, since I, like everyone else, will subconsciously seek out data to support what I already believe to be true.

I know some people will see the commercial and believe the Kindle is a better buy. Good on them. Other people will know better. Good on us.

It's always difficult to explain the importance of quality to someone who has come to believe that cheaper is better .... that is why I love this quote from an earlier post from  Mac Voyer.

 

Originally Posted by Mac Voyer

 

"Having been on the skeptic side of the fence, I know it is senseless to try and convince someone of the superiority of the Mac experience. Much of the difference amounts to a lot of small things that are difficult to put into words or on a spreadsheet. But all those little things equal more than the sum of their parts. You just have to be there.

 

As far as what windows can do, that is almost irrelevant. Coach passengers arrive at the same time on the same plane as first class. But you have never flown first class on a big plane if you think the experience is in the same arena. You might think all cars are alike if you've never owned a luxury car. You may think all clothes are alike until you've owned real designer fashion. Chinese knock offs look just like iPhones, but they most certainly are not iPhones. If you are willing to wait a bit and accept a cheap knock off of what Apple has done, then yes, your PC will end up with many of the features that are a part of the Mac experience. But make no mistake about it, they are not at all the same.

 

I work in both the Windows and Mac OS. I have the most advanced level of the OSs and have for many years. I can tell you that I have never had an experience of equivalence or parity between the systems. Every time I have to work in Windows, I find the experience almost painful, and am constantly reminded in a thousand little ways that do not show up on a spreadsheet how far those two worlds are apart.

 

The only way to know is to fly first class for a year. You may go back to coach for any number of reasons, but you will never again think they are the same."

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post #34 of 52
2/6/13 at 9:14am

Amazon's whole goal is for more shoppers for Amazon. Put the device out there for little to no profit, hoping they buy more stuff on Amazon to make up for it. It doesn't seem to be working very well. 

 

Meanwhile, people can consume (purchase) much more with an iPad. The Kindle Fire is more locked-down than anything Apple offers. But you can root it and put full Android on it!! Don't go crying to Amazon when it doesn't work properly. 

 

It's like the Android fans saying the Nexus 7 is far superior to the iPad mini for less money. Those same geeks who obsess over specs fail to see the pure usable advantages the iPad mini has over the Nexus 7 for that $129 difference. 

1) Better battery life

2) More screen real estate

3) Front AND rear cameras

4) Huge variety of iPad (tablet-specific) apps

5) An older processor delivers an equally snappy (or better) user experience

6) Usable life - the iPad mini will most likely be supported for OS updates from Apple much longer. Google only cares about your device if they can sneak in a few more things that will generate ad revenue. Leading to # 7

7) Apple makes their money up front from the purchase of the device. I can't trust any company who gives away their OS, since nothing is free in life. 

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post #35 of 52
2/6/13 at 9:31am

Amazon is being dishonest.  How can you compare the price of two products that are not comparably equipped?  This is trying to fool the buyers.  Kindle Fire HD does not come with a charger.  It does not have a rear facing camera. 
 

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post #36 of 52
2/6/13 at 10:11am
This ad is easily countered by showing the billions of apps and other things the iPad can that a Kindle can't.

The people who look at a Kindle and see a cheap iPad already bought their Kindle's. I don't see how this sways anyone%u2013 the people buying iPads already know it's the apps that make it worth what its, not just the screen alone.
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post #37 of 52
2/6/13 at 10:14am
Originally Posted by tzeshan View Post
Amazon is being dishonest.  How can you compare the price of two products that are not comparably equipped?  This is trying to fool the buyers.  Kindle Fire HD does not come with a charger.  It does not have a rear facing camera. 

 

But it has "stereo speaker grilles"!


…does not come with a charger.

 

Wait, WHAT? Do you mean no wall charger or literally no cable to attach it to anything?

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post #38 of 52
2/6/13 at 10:16am

By the way, I went to ftc.gov and lodged a complaint against Amazon for this deceptive advertising.

 

The iPad has a lot more pixels and Amazon's claim is a lie.  I hope the government puts a stop to it.

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post #39 of 52
2/6/13 at 11:01am
OT but an iPhone 5 ration iPad would be nice.
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post #40 of 52
2/6/13 at 11:12am
This must be good news for amazon. Can't wait for a press release touting actual numbers instead of "number one best seller (non iPad edition) tablet on Amazon dot com!"
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