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Apple's 'disappointing' quarter still outperforms the most profitable US companies

post #1 of 47
Thread Starter 
Even after a quarter widely panned on Wall Street as "flat" or "disappointing," Apple holds the top spot among the most profitable U.S. companies by a significant margin.

Apple profit comparison


The $13.1 billion in profit Apple posted for the first quarter of 2013 is the most profitable quarter for a tech company in history, just edging out the record $13.06 billion set in the first quarter of 2013 ? also by Apple.

A comparison of Apple's record quarter to those of the other most profitable companies in the United States shows Apple head and shoulders above its American peers. Apple's $13.1 billion in profit is 31 percent more than the $10 billion of its closest competitor, oil giant ExxonMobil, which briefly surpassed Apple in market cap following investors' negative reactions to the most recent quarter.

As statistics portal Statista points out, the only companies to ever post a higher quarterly profit are ExxonMobil and Russian energy giant Gazprom, which posted $16.2 billion in profit for the first quarter of 2011.

Apple, once targeted for $1,000 per share, currently sits 34.7 percent below its all-time high of $700 per share. Meanwhile, it earned $100 million more in the first quarter than firms Wells Fargo, Proctor & Gamble, and General Electric combined.

In terms of technology companies, Apple earned more than twice the $6.4 billion of its nearest competitor, Redmond software giant Microsoft. Add in the $5.8 billion earned by IBM, and Apple still beats the total by nearly a billion dollars.

Apple's team remains upbeat on the company's future, despite the negative outlook of some investors. CEO Tim Cook expressed confidence in the firm's product pipeline, saying during the quarterly conference call that "we continue to focus on innovation and making the best products in the world."
post #2 of 47
Apple's Q4 11 through Q4 12 would be in the top 6 or 7 spots. 1wink.gif

But then, I suppose XOM would be similar too.

The stock market is subject to the whims of investors, which are largely irrational.
post #3 of 47

This means only one thing...

 

Apple is DOOOMEDDD!

post #4 of 47
Now that investors seem to have exhausted the panic-selling frenzy that they have talked themselves into (with no small assist from stock manipulators), some calm and common sense might finally creep into the investing scene and Apple's stock will start inching back up to more realistic levels.

If there are any professional fund managers in this group of panic sellers, they should be fired.
post #5 of 47

What happened with the SEC looking into the huge drop?

 

 

Quote:
The reason why they are analysts is because they failed at running businesses.

 

Reply

 

 

Quote:
The reason why they are analysts is because they failed at running businesses.

 

Reply
post #6 of 47
Problem is the massive profits already in their market cap. Growth is slowing to flat next quarter or down if you run apples guidance. So great quarter but as second largest market cap double Microsoft still it is already priced in
post #7 of 47

So the argument for Apple now is "we don't suck as bad as the other guy"? Is that what you are saying, AppleInsider?

post #8 of 47
Quick sell off on manufactured "bad news," now everything is rosy and the analysts are trying to bump the stock price.

I'm sorry, but these people need investigating. The SEC needs to do its job here...
post #9 of 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by AZREOSpecialist View Post

So the argument for Apple now is "we don't suck as bad as the other guy"? Is that what you are saying, AppleInsider?

Well if you don't suck as bad as 99.99% of everyone else, then I'd say you're winning.
post #10 of 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by mvigod View Post

Problem is the massive profits already in their market cap. Growth is slowing to flat next quarter or down if you run apples guidance. So great quarter but as second largest market cap double Microsoft still it is already priced in

What 'massive profits' in their market cap? Care to elaborate on your valuation model and assumptions?

post #11 of 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post

The $13.1 billion in profit Apple posted for the first quarter of 2013 is the most profitable quarter for a tech company in history, just edging out the record $13.06 billion set in the first quarter of 2013 also by Apple.

Saywha? 103% better or somefin'?
post #12 of 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post
CEO Tim Cook expressed confidence in the firm's product pipeline, saying during the quarterly conference call that "we continue to focus on innovation and making the best products in the world."

Well, in spite of Apple being doomed to forever disappoint the market thank god they are focussed on what matters. 

post #13 of 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by AaronJ View Post

 

Yeah, if only I hadn't bought shares at $6.50/share.  I wish I had listened to you.

You did? You lucky (clever?) sumenabitch!

post #14 of 47

$13.1 Billion profit in the last quarter, and this proves "it's like the 80s all over again" how?

"Apple should pull the plug on the iPhone."

John C. Dvorak, 2007
Reply

"Apple should pull the plug on the iPhone."

John C. Dvorak, 2007
Reply
post #15 of 47
So, what the heck are these analysts analyzing when they come out with their preposterous doomsday reports? Sorry, but they are not worth the toilet paper they wipe their @$$e$ with.
post #16 of 47

WOW...disappoints and still better than anyone else!

Apple is indeed doomed!

Now everyone sell sell sell...drive that stock price down......so I can buy and ride the next wave when it goes to $1000 a share

Tallest Skil:


"Eventually Google will have their Afghanistan with Oracle and collapse"

"The future is Apple, Google, and a third company that hasn't yet been created."


 


 

Reply

Tallest Skil:


"Eventually Google will have their Afghanistan with Oracle and collapse"

"The future is Apple, Google, and a third company that hasn't yet been created."


 


 

Reply
post #17 of 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by mvigod View Post

Problem is the massive profits already in their market cap. Growth is slowing to flat next quarter or down if you run apples guidance. So great quarter but as second largest market cap double Microsoft still it is already priced in

I still wonder what profits are included in Amazon's market cap.

post #18 of 47
Apple seems to be the Rodney Dangerfield of stocks. No respect.
"Few things are harder to put up with than the annoyance of a good example" Mark Twain
"Just because something is deemed the law doesn't make it just" - SolipsismX
Reply
"Few things are harder to put up with than the annoyance of a good example" Mark Twain
"Just because something is deemed the law doesn't make it just" - SolipsismX
Reply
post #19 of 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by mvigod View Post

Problem is the massive profits already in their market cap. Growth is slowing to flat next quarter or down if you run apples guidance. So great quarter but as second largest market cap double Microsoft still it is already priced in

 

Wow. This quote is almost the perfect example of what's wrong with business and the stock market today.  It's just a lot of nonsense logic strung together with buzzwords.   

 

Steve Balmer, is that you?  1smile.gif

post #20 of 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by emig647 View Post

What happened with the SEC looking into the huge drop?

What's to look at? The price fell because there were more people interested in selling shares than buying shares. It's simple supply and demand.

post #21 of 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by paxman View Post

You did? You lucky (clever?) sumenabitch!

 

Well, it was actually $13/share, but then they split.  And yeah, I'm lucky.

 

My theory has always been to invest in companies whose products I like.  Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't.  But in the case of AAPL, it's definitely worked.

post #22 of 47
Originally Posted by chabig View Post
What's to look at? The price fell because there were more people interested in selling shares than buying shares. It's simple supply and demand.

 

Thanks for believing that. Is there such a thing as a "stock shorting fanboy"?

Originally posted by Marvin

Even if [the 5.5” iPhone exists], it doesn’t deserve to.
Reply

Originally posted by Marvin

Even if [the 5.5” iPhone exists], it doesn’t deserve to.
Reply
post #23 of 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gazoobee View Post

 

Wow. This quote is almost the perfect example of what's wrong with business and the stock market today.  It's just a lot of nonsense logic strung together with buzzwords.   

 

Steve Balmer, is that you?  1smile.gif

 

It would be ALL CAPS if it were Balmer. :)

post #24 of 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by AZREOSpecialist View Post

So the argument for Apple now is "we don't suck as bad as the other guy"? Is that what you are saying, AppleInsider?

 

More like, "we are better than everyone else."

wtf, wallstreet?

post #25 of 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by AaronJ View Post

 

It would be ALL CAPS if it were Balmer. :)


I propose we rename Caps Lock to Ballmer.

post #26 of 47
The real issue here is Apple's need for cash in flows to inflate the value of the stock. Legally the largest purchasers of stock (mutual funds, and retirement funds) on the Nasdaq are limited to the amount of any one stock they will purchase. Apple makes up so much of the total value of the stock traded on the Nasdaq that it needs a very large amount of cash in flows to inflate the value of the stock to match the value of the company. In modern memory this has not ever been a problem for any other stock. As the PE of the stock keeps dropping it becomes a more and more undervalued issue. There are only a few things Apple can do: increase dividends, buy back shares, set up a dividend reinvestment plan, or ignore the problem. So far Apple has continued to be very conservative in it's fiscal policies. They do not tout the stock to the private investor, they have begun a small stock repurchase program to remove the deflation in ownership caused by employee stock options. There is not other policy in place and no signs that Apple is going to do anything immediately to combat the low PE in it's stock.

Assuming the company continues on it's current trajectory, it will soon have a PE in the neighborhood of 5 or 6. This is not the problem that is usually meant by the law of large numbers, but it is an effect of Apple's own large size that is reshaping how the market is functioning. If the world economy was in better shape perhaps this would not be a problem. The average person is not buying Apple stock, and the result is a weird world where investing in the worlds most successful company does not return the value of investing in less successful companies.
post #27 of 47
Originally Posted by OllieWallieWhiskers View Post
I propose we rename Caps Lock to Ballmer.

 

I thought it was already Mays Lock. Guess he's dead, though.

Originally posted by Marvin

Even if [the 5.5” iPhone exists], it doesn’t deserve to.
Reply

Originally posted by Marvin

Even if [the 5.5” iPhone exists], it doesn’t deserve to.
Reply
post #28 of 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by AaronJ View Post

It would be ALL CAPS if it were Balmer. 1smile.gif

And monkey sounds.
"Few things are harder to put up with than the annoyance of a good example" Mark Twain
"Just because something is deemed the law doesn't make it just" - SolipsismX
Reply
"Few things are harder to put up with than the annoyance of a good example" Mark Twain
"Just because something is deemed the law doesn't make it just" - SolipsismX
Reply
post #29 of 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

 

Thanks for believing that. Is there such a thing as a "stock shorting fanboy"?

I don't know what a "stock shorting fanboy" is, nor what it would have to do with the stock market. The market is simpler than people think. There are buyers and sellers. When there are more buyers, competition for shares allows sellers to raise the price. When there are more sellers, competition forces them to lower the price to entice buyers. Stock shorting (if that's what you are talking about) is just selling of shares.

post #30 of 47
Yup, this record-breaking performance really does show that Apple is DOOMED!... (Not!)
 
What are those "analysts" and investors thinking???
post #31 of 47
Maybe put the share price of those other companies? Sure, AAPL is profitable, but is it $700/share profitable? And Blue Horseshoe loves Anacott Steel.
post #32 of 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by dasanman69 View Post


And monkey sounds.

 

I would pay Apple to add monkey sounds when activating the Ballmer Key. :)

post #33 of 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by eightzero View Post

Maybe put the share price of those other companies? Sure, AAPL is profitable, but is it $700/share profitable? And Blue Horseshoe loves Anacott Steel.

 

Well, if Apple had the P/E that Amazon has, it would be $1,309/share right now.

post #34 of 47
Billions of dollars made yearly. How disappointing.

Wall Street thinking is a disease continuing to kill the economy. Apple's doing well beyond fine and only arrogant greed among the speculators would suggest otherwise. This whole system is a disaster.
post #35 of 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by allenbf View Post

Quick sell off on manufactured "bad news," now everything is rosy and the analysts are trying to bump the stock price.

I'm sorry, but these people need investigating. The SEC needs to do its job here...

 

Except Apple shares did not drop based on "bad news."  It dropped when Apple reported actual numbers, which indicated the stock price need to be realigned more with reality.

 

The real problem with Apple is it never had nowhere near the actual numbers to justify the market cap at $700+ per share.  That number was driven by a buying frenzy.  Apple always under reported what they knew they would make (fairly common for smaller companies) so they could always beat expectations.  Apple became a 'Wall Street Darling' and analysts started projecting outrageous forecasts.  It was almost a competition to see who could come up with the most bullish number.  People bought it.  Everyone knew 'Apple is great', the stock performance continued to (artificially) go up, and because the stock was going up, that was the new reality.  It was not based on their actual performance.  Their actual performance *IS* great and justifies them being the biggest company at their 450billionish market cap.  Their numbers do not warrant them being a $660 billionish company.

 

As an example:

Exxon's market cap is @ $390b.  No one has a problem with that.

Apples profits in Q4 of 2012 were 30% higher.

Using that as a baseline, Apples best market cap should be at most $507b.

 

Even that number is artificially high.  It is comparing the performance of a holiday quarter only and one in which Apple released a new product.  By Apples own guidance their next quarter will go flat or down.  Exxon is not reliant on 'holidays' and its projected to keep going at its steady upward crawl like most big companies do.  Since Apple isn't expected to continue having 30% higher profits than Exxon, its market cap should not actually be 30% higher.

 

Analysts didn't cause Apple to drop with bad news- reality caused Apple's share price to drop.  Analysts and media frenzy, combined with user love, caused Apple stocks to soar way above what their actual numbers justified.  When it became clear Apple couldn't meet those expectations the stock price started dropping fast.  When Apple reported its actual numbers (actual sales numbers were not only below expectations, but they were below expectations even including phones Apple was giving away for free or cheap- which constituted around half of their total sales!)- that is what drove the stock down.

 

Apple is fine.  Their products are great.  Their sales are great.  Their margins are high but dwindling.  Based on that they are solidly in first place market cap again.  There might be a shred of justification to drive them back up to a $507b company (but that is above even 'high' guidance).  They don't currently justify a $700b market cap, but who knows- another awesome new surprise might change that.

post #36 of 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frood View Post

Except Apple shares did not drop based on "bad news."  It dropped when Apple reported actual numbers, which indicated the stock price need to be realigned more with reality.

The real problem with Apple is it never had nowhere near the actual numbers to justify the market cap at $700+ per share.  That number was driven by a buying frenzy.  Apple always under reported what they knew they would make (fairly common for smaller companies) so they could always beat expectations.  Apple became a 'Wall Street Darling' and analysts started projecting outrageous forecasts.  It was almost a competition to see who could come up with the most bullish number.  People bought it.  Everyone knew 'Apple is great', the stock performance continued to (artificially) go up, and because the stock was going up, that was the new reality.  It was not based on their actual performance.  Their actual performance *IS* great and justifies them being the biggest company at their 450billionish market cap.  Their numbers do not warrant them being a $660 billionish company.

As an example:
Exxon's market cap is @ $390b.  No one has a problem with that.
Apples profits in Q4 of 2012 were 30% higher.
Using that as a baseline, Apples best market cap should be at most $507b.

Even that number is artificially high.  It is comparing the performance of a holiday quarter only and one in which Apple released a new product.  By Apples own guidance their next quarter will go flat or down.  Exxon is not reliant on 'holidays' and its projected to keep going at its steady upward crawl like most big companies do.  Since Apple isn't expected to continue having 30% higher profits than Exxon, its market cap should not actually be 30% higher.

Analysts didn't cause Apple to drop with bad news- reality caused Apple's share price to drop.  Analysts and media frenzy, combined with user love, caused Apple stocks to soar way above what their actual numbers justified.  When it became clear Apple couldn't meet those expectations the stock price started dropping fast.  When Apple reported its actual numbers (actual sales numbers were not only below expectations, but they were below expectations even including phones Apple was giving away for free or cheap- which constituted around half of their total sales!)- that is what drove the stock down.

Apple is fine.  Their products are great.  Their sales are great.  Their margins are high but dwindling.  Based on that they are solidly in first place market cap again.  There might be a shred of justification to drive them back up to a $507b company (but that is above even 'high' guidance).  They don't currently justify a $700b market cap, but who knows- another awesome new surprise might change that.

My quotes are there because of my belief that analysts and othe big players are manipulating the stock to a pretty large degree. Speculating stock isn't illegal but manipulation is.
post #37 of 47
Conceptually this is complete BS! And history will lambast Wall Street when their era comes to a screeching end.
Apple reported the "BEST" quarter in their history;yet, Wall Street says it's disappointing because the schmucks sitting in their corner office expected more. Are you serious? What the f*** does an analyst do to move electronics?
KMA every which way till Sunday! And you wonder why we had sh** like the great depression.
140 billion in the bank or close to it and no effing debt, but because they missed selling 2 million iPhones they suck. GTFO!
post #38 of 47

It's not the total profit (or the total cash-on-hand.)

It's the rate of change that gets Wall Street types excited.

Because when a company's growth rate skyrockets, investors will make mistakes.

They'll short the stock and lose money as its valuation keeps shooting up

They'll buy long just as the stock takes a dive.

 

It's a zero-sum game.  The other guy's mistake is your opportunity for profit.

That's why there is so much spin by analysts.  To convince suckers to make mistakes.

 

Here's a great book to read if you want to understand the stock market:

"The Theory of Poker," by David Sklansky 

 

http://www.twoplustwo.com/books/poker/theory-of-poker/

 

No, you don't need to read the whole book.  The fundamental theorem is pretty much

the basis of everything you do in poker.  And more or less the pure application of 

game theory to playing poker.  Great training for playing the stocks.

Sent from my iPhone Simulator

Reply

Sent from my iPhone Simulator

Reply
post #39 of 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by chabig View Post

I don't know what a "stock shorting fanboy" is, nor what it would have to do with the stock market. The market is simpler than people think. There are buyers and sellers. When there are more buyers, competition for shares allows sellers to raise the price. When there are more sellers, competition forces them to lower the price to entice buyers. Stock shorting (if that's what you are talking about) is just selling of shares.

Your last bit about shorting is too simple and very misleading.

What I understand about shorting a stock is selling it and buying it back at a lower price and make a profit from the difference.
post #40 of 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by Macnewsjunkie View Post

The real issue here is Apple's need for cash in flows to inflate the value of the stock. Legally the largest purchasers of stock (mutual funds, and retirement funds) on the Nasdaq are limited to the amount of any one stock they will purchase...The average person is not buying Apple stock, and the result is a weird world where investing in the worlds most successful company does not return the value of investing in less successful companies.

I am largely in agreement with this statement. Note, however, that the stock popped today just by Apple's restating (in a way that the market actually heard) that they intend to funnel more or their earnings back to stockholders, one way or the other. Thus, there is a place for a much more vigorous PR effort to make some headway in bolstering the stock price. I'd like to see them actively counter as much of the negative information that's being floated as possible, in a timely fashion (that is, within hours).

 

As regards their burgeoning war chest, my personal preference is for Apple to use it to move the company towards becoming private. To do so means taking stock off the table every time an opportunity like the present one, where the P/E ratio gets submarined, occurs. In effect, they should put a "floor" under the P/E ratio by using their cash to buy up stock below, say, a P/E of 13.

 

I also see no reason to not split the stock. I'd like to see it split 20:1 personally, and then continually split to keep it under $50/share. That will bring fresh buyers into the stock.

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