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Microsoft sells out of Surface Pro, just like the Zune HD did in 2009 - Page 4

post #121 of 168
Quote:
Originally Posted by SockRolid View Post

Looking forward to hearing how many Surface Pros were actually sold in the first few days.  Apple always reports big new product sales numbers just days after their releases.

Are the Surface RT and Surface Pro sustainable products lines?  
Or just technological collectors' items destined for the Museum of Failed Technology?

Got something to hide, Ballmer?  Is the word "moderate" getting worn out in Redmond?

I don't expect to get an actual number. I would expect some fluff about how it's off to a great start and that all or most retail outlets sold out almost right away.

"The real haunted empire?  It's the New York Times." ~SockRolid

"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

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post #122 of 168
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

Certainly not Apple numbers but no one expected that, especially from a device that starts at $999.

I say good job. Regardless of how many they made selling out looks good here. For MS's sake they will have sold enough units to actually report on that figure but chances are come Monday morning they will only report on how quickly it sold out.
I need to remember that promise then delay of 9 months for the white iPhone 4 the next time someone claims that the iMac delays would have never happened if Steve Jobs were alive. At least Apple meet their promised shipping times for both iMac sizes.

The white iPhone delay is due to a design flaw.  It should never be compared here.

post #123 of 168
Quote:
Originally Posted by jmgregory1 View Post

You say iOS can't run full legacy software applications - I say legacy software applications that don't have mobile versions are the real problem.  You want a desktop or laptop experience on a tablet or smartphone - when the desktop/laptop experience does not work well on a tablet, hence the need for scaling and adding peripheral devices, which leads back to the fact that what you're really looking for is a better laptop experience - not some damned frankenstein creation that is part tablet (sort of, but not really) and part laptop (sort of, but not really).

 

No wrong again - I need a mobile device so I can edit work done on a non mobile device. You think I go to the office and sit infront of a 15 inch laptop to do design? you think our marketing department hangs out on macbook Airs down the hall? You think we do layouts on Apple Pages? that every Implementation Manual from our clients can be met with Helvetica and Palatino?

 

We have mobile devices so when edits come to the Annual Report at the time you are sitting at an airport, they can still get done before you get on (or during the flight) - I do not need a great laptop experience at that point, I need a full software package and corporate font set. If it has limitation so be it - but there is still a full OS. A 2lb, 10 inch 1920X1080 tablet with windows and a full feature stylus sounds great to me.

 

This is how it works, this is what technology is - I used to think my Pismo was amazing, I know look at it (still at the office closet, and still works after 12 years) next to my Air just to get a laugh on where we used to be. I for one think I will someday put my air next to a full featured tablet, just to get a laugh on where we used to be. iOS is not that tablet

post #124 of 168
Quote:
Originally Posted by tzeshan View Post

The white iPhone delay is due to a design flaw.  It should never be compared here.

Clearly there was some flaw with part of the design that prevented it from being manufactured but why does Steve Job get a pass and Tim Cook gets vilified with posters like cameronj calling for Tim Cook's head on a platter for product that did ship on time.

"The real haunted empire?  It's the New York Times." ~SockRolid

"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

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"The real haunted empire?  It's the New York Times." ~SockRolid

"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

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post #125 of 168
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleSauce007 View Post

My God man, what do you mean by "silly Mickey Mouse world" ?

Have you seen the A6 SoC bench marks?

Do really understand the iOS architecture? Its frameworks and development tools?

 

I honestly don't think you have actually used an iPad yet, not to mention an iPhone or an Apple TV or the iOS ecosystem.

The world of computing continues to change...  Wake up and smell the coffee.  You may like it.

 

What are you talking about? the development tools are in OSX - you need a computer to tap into the iOS architecture. You think Apps are designed on an iPad?

 

The A6 SoC bench marks are pushing a mobile OS that does not even have a true File system - and a subsystem that suspends background activities. If you think ARM is a viable architecture for computing outside the mobile world at this point you are delusional.

 

no, you just seem not to have made anything for an iPad yet - or been in an environment where you need to make things for a greater standard - where a PDF is not considered a print ready file.

post #126 of 168
Quote:
Originally Posted by agramonte View Post

I love the reversal... just like you buy a Mac to do actual work (where the average joe can get by with a PC) and you pay a premium for it - Now we turn to Microsoft for a Tablet that is an actual computer (one for the talented people who can not survive on 0.99 Fart Apps) and the average untalented goes and gets an iPad.

 

And just like when PC users held the sales figures over the Mac users - so will the iPad users point at the mass sales of the iPad over the Surface - But just like a windows PC, what is geared to the common always sells more - so not a surprise.

 

Sad how things flip. 

 

Anyway, we have 2 on order at the office - It would have been a pain in the past, but with Adobe new subscription plan we can use either PC or Mac software - it will have to do until Apple comes up with an actual tablet.

What is better for you to use the Surface for work instead of a PC laptop?  

post #127 of 168
Quote:
Originally Posted by tzeshan View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by agramonte View Post

I love the reversal... just like you buy a Mac to do actual work (where the average joe can get by with a PC) and you pay a premium for it - Now we turn to Microsoft for a Tablet that is an actual computer (one for the talented people who can not survive on 0.99 Fart Apps) and the average untalented goes and gets an iPad.

 

And just like when PC users held the sales figures over the Mac users - so will the iPad users point at the mass sales of the iPad over the Surface - But just like a windows PC, what is geared to the common always sells more - so not a surprise.

 

Sad how things flip. 

 

Anyway, we have 2 on order at the office - It would have been a pain in the past, but with Adobe new subscription plan we can use either PC or Mac software - it will have to do until Apple comes up with an actual tablet.

What is better for you to use the Surface for work instead of a PC laptop?  

Are you expecting a serious answer from this guy? lol.gif

post #128 of 168
Quote:
Originally Posted by agramonte View Post

The A6 SoC bench marks are pushing a mobile OS that does not even have a true File system

It absolutely does and has since day one.

"The real haunted empire?  It's the New York Times." ~SockRolid

"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

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"The real haunted empire?  It's the New York Times." ~SockRolid

"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

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post #129 of 168
Quote:
Originally Posted by anantksundaram View Post

But that might contradict MS's positioning of the "Surface Pro" as a fully-functional PC in tablet/touch form.

Also, as an aside, I am generally suspicious of apps with the suffix 'light' ('lite') attached to the name.

Maybe I didn't make myself clear enough. "Office Light" (or, if you don't like 'light', call it "Office Mobile") would be for Surface RT, Android, and iOS. It would not be for Surface Pro - which can run the full Office.
"I'm way over my head when it comes to technical issues like this"
Gatorguy 5/31/13
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post #130 of 168
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steven N. View Post

Partially true. Partially false. I know several professional photographers now using te iPad for all of their field work. In several cases, the final supplied art work supplied to clients for magazine publication/web work was 100% done on the iPad.
 

They must work for the "Penny Saver". It is kind of risky sending off photos to a "magazine" which presumably prints on gloss stock, without converting to CMYK and sampling your ink densities and doing some under color removal if necessary. Always better to drop a PSD file into a layout program and export as a PDFX from which you make an Epson color proof. That is the way the professionals I know work. Web work, although very cumbersome to do on an iPad, at least if your image shows up lousy you can always replace the it for no cost. Using an iPad for print work is just a bad idea.

Life is too short to drink bad coffee.

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Life is too short to drink bad coffee.

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post #131 of 168
Quote:
Originally Posted by hfts View Post

Any body that does not use Office. That is my definition. Is that good enough for ya?

Yes. It is good enough for me to completely discredit your opinion.

Have a nice day.
post #132 of 168
Quote:
Originally Posted by jmgregory1 View Post

MS is simply rehashing a tired old unsuccessful formula with the SP. Sure, it's smaller and lighter than their previous attempts at convertible laptops, but that's about it. They still think you can just use a touch screen device running software that was not designed for touch input. Oh, wait you say? It's not a laptop it's a tablet? Then why is the only real selling point the "fact" that you can run legacy desktop applications on it? Which of course demand the use of legacy input methods, such as a mouse? Pretty handy to have to carry around your keyboard, mouse, external storage device and of course your charger given the measly run time, which will go down when driving a mouse, keyboard and external drive.

Wait again, you say. It's got a Wacom digitizer, so it will be perfect for photo and design professionals, because working on a 10" ultra high definition screen is such an ideal workspace. Sure. I can't wait to read how design and photo professionals start dumping their workstations as they convert exclusively to SP devices.

Size matters, and Win 8 is much better for tablets than XP was.

Don't forget how size made iPad quite different device from iPod Touch.

Likewise, these are firs x86 tablets that are actually tablets in terms of size and weight. I'm not talking about Surface Pro only, but all new x86 tablets.

Sometimes a small change can open new usage scenarios.

I also fail to understand why so many people are trying to ridicule included digitiser. If you are using SP behind the desk, you can plug 27" monitor and use SP as decently sized 11" Wacom digitiser with 1000 levels of pressure (I believe that is the number being mentioned). Device gives you integrated digitiser. I don't think it limits you to use it on integrated screen only.
post #133 of 168
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleSauce007 View Post

C|Net is clueless.
The Surface Pro Device is not a Pad.  It is a compromised NetBook.  

1.  The base OS uses too much of the flash storage.  (Compromise)

This was discussed. It uses approximately same space as OSX on MBA. Storage is not critical for most business users we are dealing with - most are actually not alowed to keep data locally, everything is on servers and network storage. In addition, storage will grow with next generations.
Quote:
2.  The PC desktop mode requires 150% display magnification to be usable.  (Compromise)

Isn't it the same issue with 13" Retina MBP, maybe even 15" to a lesser degree?
Quote:
3.  So it has the CPU of a laptop and terrible battery life...  (Compromise)

Battery is on par with 11" MBA and number of PC laptops, actually better than many of them. But I agree, more battery life would be nice. Hopefully Haswell upgrade will improve this.
Quote:
Take a look at the MacBook air to see why Apple will not use laptop CPU in its tablet lines.  http://www.apple.com/macbookair/specs.html
Apple makes it's own SoC for the iPhone, iPad and Apple TV they will get faster and faster over time and will continue to be ARM based.

ARM makers will improve performance of their solutions, while Intel and AMD will improve power consumption of their solutions. At some point ARMs will be fast enough for all but most demanding tasks, but then x86 CPUs will get into ARMs power consumption margins.

I personally hope both will strive, and both will compete in all market segments. Nothing pushes progress like good competition.
Quote:
Time will tell.

That it will.
Edited by nikon133 - 2/10/13 at 6:03pm
post #134 of 168
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alfiejr View Post

good job by DED skewering the MS fans desperately clutching at straws once again to hype yet another misbegotten MS Windows Everywhere fantasy.

let's look at the scorecard for the year ...

MS Great (much hyped by web pundits) Windows 8 New Era 2012-13:

Windows 8 OS - Despite channel stuffing license "shipments" to OEM's, actual sales are worse than Vista, even after huge 50%-75% upgrade discounts for months (now ending). near total avoidance by businesses, and consumer PC sales have nosedived. A Big Flop, so bad that it is accelerating consumers adoption of tablets as a PC alternative.

How relative those numbers are. Check this link:

http://www.techradar.com/news/software/operating-systems/windows-8-sales-are-on-par-with-windows-7-90-days-in-1129313

Windows 8 is doing fine. Not earth shattering fine, but just fine.

In addition, while PC industry as a whole did decline, speciffic OEMs did well. Like Lenovo:

http://www.engadget.com/2013/01/30/lenovo-q3-2012/

Asus also saw huge growth in 2012.

Others, well, they'll have to try harder. Obviously machines with Windows 8 can sell well, as long as they are good machines. If they are not, not even OSX would help them. Maybe start with dropping cheap crappy screens from premium laptops (here's looking at you, HP and Sony) - IPS is really not that expensive any more.
Quote:
XBox - New focus of MS ecosystem, but nearing end of life, and sales remain depressed (like all game consoles) due to tablet competition. Stuck In Niche

Define "focus". Last time we talked with MS, volume licensing was still their bread & butter. They were actually giving XBoxes to the best VL resellers, not the other way around.
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Windows Phone 8 - Despite all-in commitment by powerful Nokia, sales are modest at best, adding only a few % to Windows smartphone market share. Going Nowhere.

http://wmpoweruser.com/windows-phone-seeing-significant-holiday-boost-compared-to-q4-2011/

Windows Phone 8 sales are improving nicely compared to WP7 sales from the year before. Of course, having already well established Android and iPhone sales doesn't help much, but if MS and partners manage to keep momentum with new devices and software updates, WP can still make it big.
Quote:
Surface RT Tablet - Supposedly major iPad rival, now proven DOA. Total Fail.

I expect that RT will die or get re-branded (maybe lose desktop mode and Office as it is?) and try to create new, cheaper category. With Clover Trail tablets priced within the range of RT, comparable battery life, weight and better performance, there is hardly a reason why would someone get RT instead.
Quote:
Surface Pro Tablet - All-in-one Windows miss-mash, combining the limitations of a tablet with the limitations of a notebook, at a high price to boot. Dead Man Walking.

You say "combining limitations", and I say "combing features". And we are both right, to some degree. What will win, limitations or features? We'll see in a year time. I'm expecting Pro tablet segment to be alive and healthy. Not necessarily with Surface Pro, but with other/all available x86 tablets.
Quote:
Overall web pundit reaction to all this? MS is innovating the future! and Wall Street likes MS strategy, it likes it a lot.

now let's look at Apple ...

Apple's 2012 Product Cycle:

OS 10.8 Mountain Lion - popular, with Mac computer sales continuing modest growth (despite overall PC market decline). A Hit.

How many copies did it sell, and has it boosted Mac sales significantly?
Quote:
iPhone 5 - Refreshed hardware setting record sales. Huge Hit.

It obviously sells well, though I think iOS is reaching saturation and more changes are needed to keep it fresh.
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Apple TV - Key extension of Apple ecosystem, "hobby" product sales continue to increase steadily (actually outselling XBox). Going Someplace.

Well, it is not a secret that X720 will be anounced some time this year, and current one is 7 years old. Hardly a surprise sales are not keeping up.
Quote:
iPad Mini - New mid-size model is very popular. Big Hit.

Because people will rather spend less if given choice, even on Apple products.
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iPad - Updated model continues to sell well. Solid.

Overall pundit reaction to all this? Apple has gone stale and is in trouble! and Wall Street trashes its stock.

do we see a pattern here?

Apple raised high standards with some sweet and innovative product (at the time of their introduction), so inventors are expecting Apple to keep pushing, not only new products but new categories. I don't think it is realistic nor possible at all times, but that is what happens when you set such expectations.

But I don't think it is only that. Competition is catching up, and is some behalf bettering Apple's offering, which wasn't the case in first few years of iPhone and iPad existence. Even with MacBooks - see how many premium Windows laptops are available nowadays, with good screens, good battery life... and compare that with such Windows machines back in the days when Apple started with aluminium lappys - there were none. In short, some people might see Apple as ending this high-innovation turn and entering into more-stagnating turn, something that doesn't bode well with investors.
post #135 of 168
Quote:
Originally Posted by nikon133 View Post




But I don't think it is only that. Competition is catching up, and is some behalf bettering Apple's offering, which wasn't the case in first few years of iPhone and iPad existence. Even with MacBooks - see how many premium Windows laptops are available nowadays, with good screens, good battery life... and compare that with such Windows machines back in the days when Apple started with aluminium lappys - there were none. In short, some people might see Apple as ending this high-innovation turn and entering into more-stagnating turn, something that doesn't bode well with investors.

 

Einhorn and other greedy hedge funds and investment banks attempts to make Apple "heel" to their investment wishes, are much more the cause of the drop in stock price. Steve left a 5-year product cycle plan before he left us. Calpers got a wink and a nod, and they stayed in Apple's camp. I think Ivy will perform magic tricks sometime soon.....

post #136 of 168
Quote:
Originally Posted by nikon133 View Post


How relative those numbers are. Check this link:

http://www.techradar.com/news/software/operating-systems/windows-8-sales-are-on-par-with-windows-7-90-days-in-1129313

Windows 8 is doing fine. Not earth shattering fine, but just fine.
channel stuffing + half-off upgrade license sale = BS W8 stats like that one.

In addition, while PC industry as a whole did decline, speciffic OEMs did well. Like Lenovo:

http://www.engadget.com/2013/01/30/lenovo-q3-2012/

Asus also saw huge growth in 2012.

Others, well, they'll have to try harder. Obviously machines with Windows 8 can sell well, as long as they are good machines. If they are not, not even OSX would help them. Maybe start with dropping cheap crappy screens from premium laptops (here's looking at you, HP and Sony) - IPS is really not that expensive any more.
"try harder" is not enough. there will be a brutal shake-out among the PC OEM's over the next two years due to a permanent contraction in the PC market plus much longer replacement cycles - at least 25% shrinkage overall (including maybe 1/2 the consumer segments). yes, then the survivors should be ok. let's see how HP and Dell do. i bet one gives up.
Define "focus". Last time we talked with MS, volume licensing was still their bread & butter. They were actually giving XBoxes to the best VL resellers, not the other way around.
http://wmpoweruser.com/windows-phone-seeing-significant-holiday-boost-compared-to-q4-2011/
i'm talking about the media/cloud ecosystems that are the future of the consumer market.
Windows Phone 8 sales are improving nicely compared to WP7 sales from the year before.Of course, having already well established Android and iPhone sales doesn't help much, but if MS and partners manage to keep momentum with new devices and software updates, WP can still make it big.
going from 2% to 4% of the market is "100% growth" yes, but it's still terrible. MS last hope is to pick up RIM's left over market share and get above 5%. that would still leave it a very distant third place.
I expect that RT will die or get re-branded (maybe lose desktop mode and Office as it is?) and try to create new, cheaper category. With Clover Trail tablets priced within the range of RT, comparable battery life, weight and better performance, there is hardly a reason why would someone get RT instead.
the RT is today's Zune. way too little, way too late, and then killed even deader by the hot new iPad Mini. no hope at all. i don't think MS was ever really that serious about ARM anyway, but needed a tablet product to stay in the market until Intel can produce a decent low power chip for them.
You say "combining limitations", and I say "combing features". And we are both right, to some degree. What will win, limitations or features? We'll see in a year time. I'm expecting Pro tablet segment to be alive and healthy. Not necessarily with Surface Pro, but with other/all available x86 tablets.
it only took 3 months to realize the RT was DOA. same for the Pro. but we will keep hearing excuses for it the rest of the year no doubt. other big name OEM's have already given up on the RT. yes they might try with W8 tablets a little longer. one model anyway before giving up.
How many copies did it sell, and has it boosted Mac sales significantly?
there are Mountain Lion adoption rate stats out there, go Google. the fact that Mac sales are up at all compared to the rest of the PC industry being down at least 10% tells you all you need to know.
It obviously sells well, though I think iOS is reaching saturation and more changes are needed to keep it fresh.
when YOY iPhone sales growth levels off, let me know. didn't happen in the last 12 months.
Well, it is not a secret that X720 will be anounced some time this year, and current one is 7 years old. Hardly a surprise sales are not keeping up.
the heavy-gamer/console market has shrunk permanently due to tablet and on-line services competition. so the new Wii sales are very disappointing. if MS is going to break out of that niche with the X720, it will have to feature its media services/cloud apps instead. that market is still wide open - or fragmented if you prefer. Apple has the huge installed iOS device base to leverage, no doubt the reason the Apple TV is selling decently. without popular phones/tablets, MS has only gamers. good luck.
Because people will rather spend less if given choice, even on Apple products.
that's one reason the $329 iPad Mini killed the $499 RT.
Apple raised high standards with some sweet and innovative product (at the time of their introduction), so inventors are expecting Apple to keep pushing, not only new products but new categories. I don't think it is realistic nor possible at all times, but that is what happens when you set such expectations.

But I don't think it is only that. Competition is catching up, and is some behalf bettering Apple's offering, which wasn't the case in first few years of iPhone and iPad existence. Even with MacBooks - see how many premium Windows laptops are available nowadays, with good screens, good battery life... and compare that with such Windows machines back in the days when Apple started with aluminium lappys - there were none. In short, some people might see Apple as ending this high-innovation turn and entering into more-stagnating turn, something that doesn't bode well with investors.
you don't really mean "investors" who buy based on fundamentals like P/E ratio. you really mean "speculators" who buy hoping hype will drive a stock price up no matter what the fundamentals. but even the speculators aren't betting on MS stock. sure, the rest of the industry is in constant catch-up-to-Apple mode. based on my scorecard, MS is egregiously failing at that.
sure, Apple needs to keep improving its established products significantly, including occasional major innovations, to maintain its current leadership position. 2012 was clearly a year of major but evolutionary improvements for Apple. we'll all see what its 2013 product cycle delivers.

Edited by Alfiejr - 2/10/13 at 4:04pm
post #137 of 168
They are breakdancing in business attire… with ties. Mind… blown! Clearly the Surface Pro must is a completely professional, fun and totally rad device... with absolutely no compromises¡



edit: Here is the full video…



PS: Why is linking a video so much less of a hassle than linking a photo with Huddler. Such a pain to post an image here.

"The real haunted empire?  It's the New York Times." ~SockRolid

"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

Reply

"The real haunted empire?  It's the New York Times." ~SockRolid

"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

Reply
post #138 of 168
Quote:
Originally Posted by agramonte View Post

 

No wrong again - I need a mobile device so I can edit work done on a non mobile device. You think I go to the office and sit infront of a 15 inch laptop to do design? you think our marketing department hangs out on macbook Airs down the hall? You think we do layouts on Apple Pages? that every Implementation Manual from our clients can be met with Helvetica and Palatino?

 

We have mobile devices so when edits come to the Annual Report at the time you are sitting at an airport, they can still get done before you get on (or during the flight) - I do not need a great laptop experience at that point, I need a full software package and corporate font set. If it has limitation so be it - but there is still a full OS. A 2lb, 10 inch 1920X1080 tablet with windows and a full feature stylus sounds great to me.

 

This is how it works, this is what technology is - I used to think my Pismo was amazing, I know look at it (still at the office closet, and still works after 12 years) next to my Air just to get a laugh on where we used to be. I for one think I will someday put my air next to a full featured tablet, just to get a laugh on where we used to be. iOS is not that tablet

I was talking about the difference between a tablet and a laptop and what you and so many other supporters of the SP (and similar W8 convertibles) are really talking about is a smaller form factor laptop.  As far as the Wacom digitizer goes - let me know how great it is running any of your Adobe design suites using the SP, which I have to guess that even in situations you describe, will be anything but easy.

 

Good luck and enjoy - and don't let the door hit you in the arse on your way out...

post #139 of 168
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

They are breakdancing in business attire… with ties. Mind… blown! Clearly the Surface Pro must is a completely professional, fun and totally rad device... with absolutely no compromises¡

Think of all the fun it will be to break a move while running a funkalicious excel spreadsheet or groovy powerpoint for your hindsight meeting tomorrow!

post #140 of 168

After watching the Fashion Mall video, I'm now more confused as to who is their target audience....
 

post #141 of 168
Quote:
Originally Posted by nikon133 View Post


Yes. It is good enough for me to completely discredit your opinion.

Have a nice day.

 

I think I touched a raw nerve. Reminds me of the part in Marathon Man.

post #142 of 168
Quote:
Originally Posted by anantksundaram View Post


I hope you realize you're not making much sense.

 

Can you not read between the lines ?

Of course I'm making sense.

Just beacuse someone can add in some VB-styled Macros into a spreadsheet does not make them a "power user" per se.

They are skilled in Excel, and thats all.

 

As you stepped in to support him, can I assume that you are in this category, and consider yourself a "power-user" ?

post #143 of 168
Quote:
Originally Posted by nikon133 View Post


Size matters, and Win 8 is much better for tablets than XP was.

Don't forget how size made iPad quite different device from iPod Touch.

Likewise, these are firs x86 tablets that are actually tablets in terms of size and weight. I'm not talking about Surface Pro only, but all new x86 tablets.

Sometimes a small change can open new usage scenarios.

I also fail to understand why so many people are trying to ridicule included digitiser. If you are using SP behind the desk, you can plug 27" monitor and use SP as decently sized 11" Wacom digitiser with 1000 levels of pressure (I believe that is the number being mentioned). Device gives you integrated digitiser. I don't think it limits you to use it on integrated screen only.

 

So how is Window 8 better than Windows XP, care to elaborate ?

I think a sizable number of people think the opposite than you. In XP multiple windows can be opened while in Metro mode, only one.

Is Window 8 larger than XP in size when installed ?

Can you tell me why after more than 10 years that all of a sudden, people will say "hang on Intel-powered are actually great".

They failed before and they will fail again.

Can you not fathom that running Office on a small screen will be counter-productive. yes I know, you will hook it up to your 80 inch TV screen and run it from there. As for Touch for Office, it was already canned when it ran on Surface RT (I could not be bothered finding the links for you, look for yourself).

So tell me, as a stand-alone device (not hooked up to any other gizmos), how exactly is the Surface Pro going to be different than its predecessors in gathering a sizeable following ? Not by wishful thinking I can tell you that.

post #144 of 168
Quote:
Originally Posted by anantksundaram View Post

Are you expecting a serious answer from this guy? lol.gif

 

Maybe add to the post instead of insulting people. This is the 2nd time in just one thread.

post #145 of 168
Quote:
Originally Posted by jmgregory1 View Post

Think of all the fun it will be to break a move while running a funkalicious excel spreadsheet or groovy powerpoint for your hindsight meeting tomorrow!

 

Yes, but they are "Power Users", don't you get it !

The rest of us with our toy iPads are not apparently.

Strange that these so-called "Power Users" could not design and implement a complex Relational Database application system, but hang on, they can embedd macros into their wonderful Excel spredsheets. And to think I considered myself a programmer these past 27 years, what a fool was I.

Its Excel, Power Point and Word people, cannot you not see the light, Office is our saviour. All hail Office.

Yes I had to lay it on thick, because they did.

 

On a serious note, has anybody seen David Brynes (ex Talking Head) tongue-in cheek parody of Power Point, done ironically in Power Point ?

post #146 of 168
Quote:
Originally Posted by hfts View Post

I think I touched a raw nerve. Reminds me of the part in Marathon Man.

Lol. It can remind you of some of the most famous Cicero's speeches (I'd prefer that to Nazi references, even fictional), but it was really just nonsense, and anantksundaram kindly pointed that to you.

Using any single app (or suite) does not qualify, nor does it disqualify someone from being power user. There is no relation. Or any logic.

When one gets same opinion from two different sides of spectrum, one might want to reflect on that. It does require some wisdom and humility, though.
post #147 of 168
Quote:
Originally Posted by hfts View Post

So how is Window 8 better than Windows XP, care to elaborate ?

Are you for real? It is like asking how is OSX better than original Mac OS. In every possible way. Feel free to Google around, you will learn something.
Quote:
I think a sizable number of people think the opposite than you. In XP multiple windows can be opened while in Metro mode, only one.

I think a sizeable number of people think that, by opening an umbrella in the house, one might get bad luck, like not getting married. What some people think does not necessary mean it is correct. For example, Windows 8 can open two apps on screen in Modern GUI and virtually unlimited number in desktop, meaning that what you think in this case is wrong.
Quote:
Is Window 8 larger than XP in size when installed ?

Of course it is larger. Humour me please. What is the relevance of this question?
Quote:
Can you tell me why after more than 10 years that all of a sudden, people will say "hang on Intel-powered are actually great".
They failed before and they will fail again.

Dude... are you really for real? 10 years is lifetime in IT. What you are asking can translate to "how is Mercedes today any better than Daimler Benz from 1902". Technology is progressing. 10 years back, you had overheating, under-performing 180nm P4 based hardware running software almost without any touch optimization and with resistive touch screens, sweating and cooking in big convertible laptops with poor case integrity and poorer battery life. But 10 years ago, ARM processors could not give you performance/power consumption anywhere close to modern ARMs. This year, 22nm Haswell iCore is coming out. Yes it's Intel, but not Intel from 2000.
Quote:
Can you not fathom that running Office on a small screen will be counter-productive. yes I know, you will hook it up to your 80 inch TV screen and run it from there. As for Touch for Office, it was already canned when it ran on Surface RT (I could not be bothered finding the links for you, look for yourself).
So tell me, as a stand-alone device (not hooked up to any other gizmos), how exactly is the Surface Pro going to be different than its predecessors in gathering a sizeable following ? Not by wishful thinking I can tell you that.

I just happen to be 45 years old and working in IT since 1991... so I do know a few things about Office. We do advise all our users to go for at least 2x 19" screen setups for every work PC and laptop, except very specific scenarios (like point of sale units). 50% time or more, our customers are not using laptop screens at all. In the office, they have laptop on docking station, plugged to decent sized screens. They will maybe use laptop screen from home (those that work a lot from home will have big screen there as well). They are more likely to use laptop screen when visiting their customers or cooperatives, though even then they might be using projector or flat TV for presentations.

Transfer that usage scenario to Surface Pro-like device. Screen size is important but not critical (and why would you insist on using 11" screen whenever you can use 24"?). Compatibility with software, network standards and services is much more important. And no other tablet on market today can offer it. And now you can get it in form factor comparable to iPad/Android tablets. It is not wishful thinking. I don't have MS stock, nor is Gates my relative. It is opinion based on some reasonable industry insight.
Edited by nikon133 - 2/10/13 at 7:57pm
post #148 of 168
Quote:
Originally Posted by hfts View Post

Can you not read between the lines ?

Of course I'm making sense.

Just beacuse someone can add in some VB-styled Macros into a spreadsheet does not make them a "power user" per se.

They are skilled in Excel, and thats all.

 

As you stepped in to support him, can I assume that you are in this category, and consider yourself a "power-user" ?

There's no law that says you should do so, but you're sounding more and more bizarre, and you'd be making less of an ass* of yourself if you just shut it off now.

 

*Br. meaning of the term.

post #149 of 168
Quote:
Originally Posted by hfts View Post

Maybe add to the post instead of insulting people. This is the 2nd time in just one thread.

Some people deserve nothing more, nothing less.

 

Your posts are not particularly flattering of people either.

post #150 of 168
Quote:
Originally Posted by hfts View Post

 

On a serious note, has anybody seen David Brynes (ex Talking Head) tongue-in cheek parody of Power Point, done ironically in Power Point ?

David Byrne? Talking Heads (the band's name has an 's', btw)?

 

Somewhat over-rated band-leader and band, but lots of cute stuff, though.

post #151 of 168
Quote:
Originally Posted by nikon133 View Post

Are you for real? It is like asking how is OSX better than original Mac OS. In every possible way. Feel free to Google around, you will learn something.
I think a sizeable number of people think that, by opening an umbrella in the house, one might get bad luck, like not getting married. What some people think does not necessary mean it is correct. For example, Windows 8 can open two apps on screen in Modern GUI and virtually unlimited number in desktop, meaning that what you think in this case is wrong.

I think it calls to question why anyone would use a full-blown PC with a UI that limits them to only two apps. You don't find it odd that "Modern" is really quite limited and "Legacy" isn't? What's the selling point of Modern then?

Quote:
Compatibility with software, network standards and services is much more important. And no other tablet on market today can offer it. And now you can get it in form factor comparable to iPad/Android tablets. It is not wishful thinking. I don't have MS stock, nor is Gates my relative. It is opinion based on some reasonable industry insight.

You seem to say that as if no one has tried full-blown PC tablets before. If there really was a deep demand for a PC tablet, Windows XP Tablet edition wouldn't have failed. Windows 7 Slate was aborted. Windows 3.1 Pen PC Edition wouldn't have died in obscurity either. There's a few here that wanted an OS X tablet, if there's demand, you'd think there would be more interest in the ModBook to prove to Apple that they're wrong about how they handled tablets. As yet, tablets are Microsoft's Road Runner, Microsoft being the Wily E Coyote in the relationship. Keep trying every so often for twenty years, we'll see if the fourth (or more) time is the charm.
post #152 of 168
Quote:
Originally Posted by nikon133 View Post

Are you for real? It is like asking how is OSX better than original Mac OS. In every possible way. Feel free to Google around, you will learn something.
I think a sizeable number of people think that, by opening an umbrella in the house, one might get bad luck, like not getting married. What some people think does not necessary mean it is correct. For example, Windows 8 can open two apps on screen in Modern GUI and virtually unlimited number in desktop, meaning that what you think in this case is wrong.
Of course it is larger. Humour me please. What is the relevance of this question?
Dude... are you really for real? 10 years is lifetime in IT. What you are asking can translate to "how is Mercedes today any better than Daimler Benz from 1902". Technology is progressing. 10 years back, you had overheating, under-performing 180nm P4 based hardware running software almost without any touch optimization and with resistive touch screens, sweating and cooking in big convertible laptops with poor case integrity and poorer battery life. But 10 years ago, ARM processors could not give you performance/power consumption anywhere close to modern ARMs. This year, 22nm Haswell iCore is coming out. Yes it's Intel, but not Intel from 2000.
I just happen to be 45 years old and working in IT since 1991... so I do know a few things about Office. We do advise all our users to go for at least 2x 19" screen setups for every work PC and laptop, except very specific scenarios (like point of sale units). 50% time or more, our customers are not using laptop screens at all. In the office, they have laptop on docking station, plugged to decent sized screens. They will maybe use laptop screen from home (those that work a lot from home will have big screen there as well). They are more likely to use laptop screen when visiting their customers or cooperatives, though even then they might be using projector or flat TV for presentations.

Transfer that usage scenario to Surface Pro-like device. Screen size is important but not critical (and why would you insist on using 11" screen whenever you can use 24"?). Compatibility with software, network standards and services is much more important. And no other tablet on market today can offer it. And now you can get it in form factor comparable to iPad/Android tablets. It is not wishful thinking. I don't have MS stock, nor is Gates my relative. It is opinion based on some reasonable industry insight.

Are you for real?
Discussing tablets, do I need to fill in all gaps for you. You are so funny.
post #153 of 168
Quote:
Originally Posted by nikon133 View Post

Lol. It can remind you of some of the most famous Cicero's speeches (I'd prefer that to Nazi references, even fictional), but it was really just nonsense, and anantksundaram kindly pointed that to you.

Using any single app (or suite) does not qualify, nor does it disqualify someone from being power user. There is no relation. Or any logic.

When one gets same opinion from two different sides of spectrum, one might want to reflect on that. It does require some wisdom and humility, though.

Don't try and squirm your way out Dude.
To you and your ilk, those tat don't use Office are not power users. It's all over the blogs, have you been hiding in a cave?
So I don't like it when so and so put themselves above me because they can use Excel while picking their nose.
post #154 of 168
Well here we
Quote:
Originally Posted by anantksundaram View Post

There's no law that says you should do so, but you're sounding more and more bizarre, and you'd be making less of an ass* of yourself if you just shut it off now.

*Br. meaning of the term.

Surprise surprise another insult.
Try and be a little but mor
Quote:
Originally Posted by anantksundaram View Post

There's no law that says you should do so, but you're sounding more and more bizarre, and you'd be making less of an ass* of yourself if you just shut it off now.

*Br. meaning of the term.
e

Another insult.
post #155 of 168
M
Quote:
Originally Posted by anantksundaram View Post

Some people deserve nothing more, nothing less.

Your posts are not particularly flattering of people either.
[/quote
Neither are yours to me.
post #156 of 168
Quote:
Originally Posted by anantksundaram View Post

David Byrne? Talking Heads (the band's name has an 's', btw)?

Somewhat over-rated band-leader and band, but lots of cute stuff, though.

I don't think your lack of taste in music is relevant here.
And I missed an s, it's the end if the world.
Here are some just in case I miss next time.
ssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssss

Happy?
post #157 of 168

Ok maybe they had 25000 in the channel to sale and they are making the news for sale out. Give me a break. Some guy thinks that the surface pro has the same memory as the MacBook Air. What Microsoft stooges. I thought the surface was a tablet. 

post #158 of 168
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

They are breakdancing in business attire… with ties. Mind… blown! Clearly the Surface Pro must is a completely professional, fun and totally rad device... with absolutely no compromises¡

edit: Here is the full video…

PS: Why is linking a video so much less of a hassle than linking a photo with Huddler. Such a pain to post an image here.

Just too painful to watch! MS does seem to be resonating with some of their fans though... the comments on YouTube are interesting.

Did Panay really say that this is (the Surface Pro) "likely the most powerful computer you will buy?"... and call their original WinRT ad "awesome"????!

I'm simply awestruck at how "unprofessional" marketing/ad related everything out of Redmond truly is. 1oyvey.gif
Knowing what you are talking about would help you understand why you are so wrong. By "Realistic" - AI Forum Member
Reply
Knowing what you are talking about would help you understand why you are so wrong. By "Realistic" - AI Forum Member
Reply
post #159 of 168
Quote:
Originally Posted by ThePixelDoc View Post


Just too painful to watch! MS does seem to be resonating with some of their fans though... the comments on YouTube are interesting.

Did Panay really say that this is (the Surface Pro) "likely the most powerful computer you will buy?"... and call their original WinRT ad "awesome"????!

I'm simply awestruck at how "unprofessional" marketing/ad related everything out of Redmond truly is. 1oyvey.gif

My wife, who really isn't interested in tech, said to me after watching the latest MS Surface commercial, "who exactly does MS think their customer is?"  They, or maybe it's the MS supporters in the press (and on this site) think of SP as a "professional" system, but it really seems to me that MS themselves are conflicted with their marketing message.

 

If they're simply pandering to be more "cool" like Apple, it isn't working on the likes of my wife.

post #160 of 168
That title... seriously at least try to look a little impartial.
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