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Tim Cook to attend State of the Union Address with Michelle Obama - Page 2

post #41 of 125
"Were we directed from Washington when to sow, and when to reap, we should soon want bread." -- Thomas Jefferson, Autobiography, 1821

Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

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Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

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post #42 of 125

Am Proud of both. Education is better off with Apple products. Other companies have positively impacted Education as has Apple. However, for now, honor to whom honor is due. Thanks Apple, Michelle.

post #43 of 125

Ah! The party of " No " strikes again!

http://firstread.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/02/13/16950285-obama-state-of-the-union-lands-with-a-thud-in-congress#comments

 

Quote:

Obama State of the Union lands with a thud in Congress

When will they learn? The answer is probably when they're not reelected next time. Oh well.1wink.gif

Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
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post #44 of 125

Just so I understand the formula...

 

Obama lays out a stridently liberal agenda. He expects compliance with this agenda.

 

The Republicans balk.

 

This makes them the "Party of 'No'?"

 

Do the Republicans ever get to disagree or oppose Obama without being called the "Party of 'No'?" Or is all opposition to Obama ipso facto "obstructionism?"

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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post #45 of 125
Quote:
Originally Posted by bugsnw View Post

Steve Jobs hated Obama's business hostility and told him he'd be a 1-term president. Yet, he still sat down and had dinner with the President. ...

 

Whatever problems Steve Jobs had with President Obama's attitude toward business did not amount to much. He told the President that the important political distinction today are not left vs. right but constructive vs. destructive. Jobs told the President Obama that he was a constructive leader. He offered to takeover and run the President's reelection campaign.

 

In the President, I believe that Steve Jobs had a strong personal identification. Both men were the sons of immigrant Muslim fathers who married American women of European descent and then abandoned them and their small children.

 

The biggest argument that Jobs had with the President was not with the President but with David Axelrod, the President's campaign manager. Axelrod dismissed out of hand Jobs's offer to run the Obama reelection campaign.

 

In his final months, Steve Jobs was a model of how to prepare for the end when you know the end is coming. One of his dying wishes was for President Barack Hussein Obama, Jr. to win reelection.

 

This dying wish came true.

post #46 of 125
Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ1970 View Post

Just so I understand the formula...

 

Obama lays out a stridently liberal agenda. He expects compliance with this agenda.

 

The Republicans balk.

 

This makes them the "Party of 'No'?"

 

Do the Republicans ever get to disagree or oppose Obama without being called the "Party of 'No'?" Or is all opposition to Obama ipso facto "obstructionism?"

No.You don't understand. Anymore than the GOP does. I've tried to spell it out for you in my repeating the fact that this is a democracy and it's what the voters want that's important. Not some conservatives idea of what they should have ( because in their mind it's what's " right " ).I'm sorry MJ but in this country ( going all the way back to the founding fathers that you keep talking about ) that the majority rules by vote. If you don't like that your only option is to look elsewhere. 

Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
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post #47 of 125
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmac View Post

No.You don't understand.

 

It seems clear that you don't.

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmac View Post

I've tried to spell it out for you in my repeating the fact that this is a democracy and it's what the voters want that's important.

 

Actually, it is a constitutional republic and the voters, politicians and the government's wants and wishes are, theoretically, limited by a written constitution.

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmac View Post

Not some conservatives idea of what they should have ( because in their mind it's what's " right " ).

 

It's interesting how you limit this to conservatives. In other words I don't see you saying: It's not what some liberals idea of what they should have (because in their mind it's what's "right.")

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmac View Post

I'm sorry MJ but in this country ( going all the way back to the founding fathers that you keep talking about ) that the majority rules by vote.

 

See above about the true intended nature of the structure of governance in the US. It was actually not about majority rules. If anything the founding fathers were quite concerned about that eventuality.

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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post #48 of 125

MJ, you're mistaken if you're claiming that Republicans are only voting against liberal ideas supported by Obama. Many Republicans vote against ALL ideas supported by Obama, even conservative ones, not because they don't think they are good ideas but because they are HIS ideas, and they cannot be seen supporting him for ANYTHING. This is what distinguishes them as obstructionist.

post #49 of 125
Quote:
Originally Posted by tonton View Post

MJ, you're mistaken if you're claiming that Republicans are only voting against liberal ideas supported by Obama. Many Republicans vote against ALL ideas supported by Obama, even conservative ones, not because they don't think they are good ideas but because they are HIS ideas, and they cannot be seen supporting him for ANYTHING. This is what distinguishes them as obstructionist.

 

That may well be. I can't read their minds. You'll have to show us what Obama proposals these Republicans have supported when they were proposed by someone other than Obama but then voted against when Obama proposed it. I don't deny that some do this. But since you (and jimmac) have chosen to paint in the broad strokes of "Republicans" (i.e., all) or "the party of 'no'" (i.e., all). The burden is on you here.

 

But at this point, it appears that the reasoning jimmac offers is pretty much if Obama proposes it and Republicans oppose it, they are the "party of 'no'" ipso facto. Nothing more.

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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post #50 of 125

Uhh, Obamacare?  That was Bob Dole's response to Hillarycare.  

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
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“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
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post #51 of 125
Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ1970 View Post

 

That may well be. I can't read their minds. You'll have to show us what Obama proposals these Republicans have supported when they were proposed by someone other than Obama but then voted against when Obama proposed it. I don't deny that some do this. But since you (and jimmac) have chosen to paint in the broad strokes of "Republicans" (i.e., all) or "the party of 'no'" (i.e., all). The burden is on you here.

 

But at this point, it appears that the reasoning jimmac offers is pretty much if Obama proposes it and Republicans oppose it, they are the "party of 'no'" ipso facto. Nothing more.

 

OMG. Let us not play stupid. The Republican ideas sent forth by President Obama are legion. The most famous is Obamacare which is Romneycare. You are intelligent enough to post on this site. We can assume that you are intelligent enough to Google other Republican ideas that President Obama has adopted.

post #52 of 125
Yes it funny how some people completely deny the fact that Obamacare was right wing policy.
post #53 of 125
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Me View Post

OMG. Let us not play stupid.

 

OK. Don't.

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Me View Post

The Republican ideas sent forth by President Obama are legion. The most famous is Obamacare which is Romneycare.

 

The real question here is whether this is really a conservative plan. Are they identical? No. Are there important differences? Probably. One of the most important is that RomneyCare was a state level vs. national level plan. Is this the only example you have? Because the claim is the these Republicans, as a whole, are just obstructionists as defined by simply voting against multiple (even all) instances of Obama proposals that they previously voted for and supported when they were not Obama proposals.

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Me View Post

You are intelligent enough to post on this site. We can assume that you are intelligent enough to Google other Republican ideas that President Obama has adopted.

 

It's not my job to do the homework to support other people's claims.


Edited by MJ1970 - 2/14/13 at 10:33am

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post #54 of 125
Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ1970 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmac View Post

No.You don't understand.

 

It seems clear that you don't.

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmac View Post

I've tried to spell it out for you in my repeating the fact that this is a democracy and it's what the voters want that's important.

 

Actually, it is a constitutional republic and the voters, politicians and the government's wants and wishes are, theoretically, limited by a written constitution.

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmac View Post

Not some conservatives idea of what they should have ( because in their mind it's what's " right " ).

 

It's interesting how you limit this to conservatives. In other words I don't see you saying: It's not what some liberals idea of what they should have (because in their mind it's what's "right.")

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmac View Post

I'm sorry MJ but in this country ( going all the way back to the founding fathers that you keep talking about ) that the majority rules by vote.

 

See above about the true intended nature of the structure of governance in the US. It was actually not about majority rules. If anything the founding fathers were quite concerned about that eventuality.

And here we have MJ repeating ( wash, rinse, dry, repeat ) the old fashioned mantra of the conservatives that will eventually lead to Republican reformation.

 

This :

 

Quote:

It's interesting how you limit this to conservatives. In other words I don't see you saying: It's not what some liberals idea of what they should have (because in their mind it's what's "right.")

is why you fail ( to paraphrase Yoda ). You totally miss the point MJ. It's clearly what the voters want now MJ not just what Liberals want. The voters are fed up specifically with the Republicans in congress and their obstructionist ways. Eventually if they don't stop the voters will get thir way by not reelecting those elements in congress that act this way. Pure and simple.1wink.gif

Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
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post #55 of 125
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmac View Post

And here we have MJ repeating ( wash, rinse, dry, repeat ) the old fashioned mantra of the conservatives that will eventually lead to Republican reformation.

 

What? A correct description of the nature of the US governance model?

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmac View Post

You totally miss the point MJ. It's clearly what the voters want now MJ not just what Liberals want.

 

And you clearly missed the point. Voters ()and it certainly isn't all voters) don't just get whatever they want. They are limited by a constitution.

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmac View Post

The voters are fed up specifically with the Republicans in congress and their obstructionist ways.

 

Yes, we know what your mantra is.

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post #56 of 125
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmac View Post

And here we have MJ repeating ( wash, rinse, dry, repeat ) the old fashioned mantra of the conservatives that will eventually lead to Republican reformation.

 

This :

 

Quote:

is why you fail ( to paraphrase Yoda ). You totally miss the point MJ. It's clearly what the voters want now MJ not just what Liberals want. The voters are fed up specifically with the Republicans in congress and their obstructionist ways. Eventually if they don't stop the voters will get thir way by not reelecting those elements in congress that act this way. Pure and simple.1wink.gif

 

The population of the U.S. was estimated at 313,914,040 in 2012.

 

126 million people (approximately 40% of the total U.S. population) voted in the 2012 election (if you believe the polling numbers).

 

Of those, 62,611,250 (49.7% of those who voted, 20% of the total U.S. population) voted for Obama.

 

Claiming everything Obama does is what voters want is not only absurd, it is outright false.

 

We essentially have 20% of the population claiming the authority to dictate what the other 80% can and cannot do without objection or question. The Constitution was meant limit the power of government so that it could not be used in this way.

Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

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Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

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post #57 of 125
Quote:
Originally Posted by jazzguru View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmac View Post

And here we have MJ repeating ( wash, rinse, dry, repeat ) the old fashioned mantra of the conservatives that will eventually lead to Republican reformation.

 

This :

 

Quote:

is why you fail ( to paraphrase Yoda ). You totally miss the point MJ. It's clearly what the voters want now MJ not just what Liberals want. The voters are fed up specifically with the Republicans in congress and their obstructionist ways. Eventually if they don't stop the voters will get thir way by not reelecting those elements in congress that act this way. Pure and simple.1wink.gif

 

The population of the U.S. was estimated at 313,914,040 in 2012.

 

126 million people (approximately 40% of the total U.S. population) voted in the 2012 election (if you believe the polling numbers).

 

Of those, 62,611,250 (49.7% of those who voted, 20% of the total U.S. population) voted for Obama.

 

Claiming everything Obama does is what voters want is not only absurd, it is outright false.

 

We essentially have 20% of the population claiming the authority to dictate what the other 80% can and cannot do without objection or question. The Constitution was meant limit the power of government so that it could not be used in this way.

And of course they continue to not get it.

 

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/02/08/poll-republicans-congress_n_2649067.html

 

 

Quote:

Poll Of Republicans Shows Disapproval Of Republicans In Congress

 

Quote:

Republican voters are more likely to disapprove than approve of the way congressional Republicans are doing their jobs, according to a Quinnipiac poll released Friday that also found all voters' views of the GOP congressional delegation at a record low.

The poll shows a decline in congressional Republican approval since the fiscal cliff standoff at the end of 2012. Forty-one percent of GOP voters approved of their party's congressional delegation, while 51 percent disapproved. As Business Insider noted, Republicans' approval of GOP members of Congress has fallen from a net positive rating of 4 points in December, and 14 points in July.

The Quinnipiac poll found that 67 percent of Democratic voters approved of the Democratic congressional delegation's performance and 25 percent disapproved.

Republicans were notably unhappy with their party's handling of the fiscal cliff negotiations.

Polls taken in January found that Republicans gave net negative ratings to their leaders' work on the fiscal cliff, and were 11 points more likely to disapprove than approve of House Speaker John Boehner's role.

Overall approval for congressional Republicans was 19 percent in the latest Quinnipiac poll, tying their record low from November 2011. Overall approval for congressional Democrats was 33 percent.

The poll surveyed 1,772 registered voters by phone from Jan. 30 to Feb. 4.

 

Not enough for you?

 

http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/general_politics/january_2013/63_of_gop_voters_think_republicans_in_congress_out_of_touch

 

 

 

Quote:

63% of GOP Voters Think Republicans in Congress Out of Touch

And of course you can tie this into other things :

 

http://www.publicpolicypolling.com/main/2013/01/images-of-nra-congressional-republicans-on-the-decline.html

 

 

Quote:
Images of NRA, Congressional Republicans on the decline

 

And you think this is just about the election?lol.gif


Edited by jimmac - 2/14/13 at 1:28pm
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post #58 of 125
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmac View Post

And of course they continue to not get it.

 

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/02/08/poll-republicans-congress_n_2649067.html

 

 

 

Not enough for you?

 

http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/general_politics/january_2013/63_of_gop_voters_think_republicans_in_congress_out_of_touch

 

 

 

And of course you can tie this into other things :

 

http://www.publicpolicypolling.com/main/2013/01/images-of-nra-congressional-republicans-on-the-decline.html

 

 

 

And you think this is just about the election?lol.gif

 

You are the one who brought up the election by implying everything Obama does is what the voters want.

 

Approval of Congress is low no matter who you poll. But not for the reasons you think.

Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

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Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

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post #59 of 125
Quote:
Originally Posted by jazzguru View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmac View Post

And of course they continue to not get it.

 

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/02/08/poll-republicans-congress_n_2649067.html

 

 

 

Not enough for you?

 

http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/general_politics/january_2013/63_of_gop_voters_think_republicans_in_congress_out_of_touch

 

 

 

And of course you can tie this into other things :

 

http://www.publicpolicypolling.com/main/2013/01/images-of-nra-congressional-republicans-on-the-decline.html

 

 

 

And you think this is just about the election?lol.gif

 

You are the one who brought up the election by implying everything Obama does is what the voters want.

 

Approval of Congress is low no matter who you poll. But not for the reasons you think.

BZZZZZZZ!!!!!! Wrong! Show me where I did that.1wink.gif The real problem here is conservatives are so focused on losing they don't see it's a much bigger issue. Maybe in a couple of years they'll see the light ( or their favorite congressmen on the way out ). And how can the reasons be different than what I think? When they site much lower approval for " Republicans " how much clearer can you get?

 

But by all means live in denial. You're in good company.

 

The last election is a symptom.1wink.gif


Edited by jimmac - 2/14/13 at 2:09pm
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post #60 of 125
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmac View Post

BZZZZZZZ!!!!!! Wrong! Show me where I did that.1wink.gif The real problem here is conservatives are so focused on losing they don't see it's a much bigger issue. Maybe in a couple of years they'll see the light ( or their favorite congressmen on the way out ). And how can the reasons be different than what I think? When they site much lower approval for " Republicans " how much clearer can you get?

 

But by all means live in denial. You're in good company.

 

So when you said "It's clearly what the voters want now MJ not just what Liberals want", what were you referring to? American Idol?

 

The "bigger issue" you refer to is much, much broader than the conservative vs. liberal false dilemma. It is, and always has been, about The State vs. YOU. Today, Republicans and Democrats are on the same team. It's obvious to anyone brave enough to look outside the mainstream media for their news and information.

 

Perhaps the dissatisfaction with the Congressional Republicans among some of their supporters is the fact that they are not talking about reducing the size and scope of government? That they are, instead, arguing with Democrats about which ways to perpetuate and grow it?

 

80% of the American people either didn't vote, or voted for someone other than Obama. But by all means, live in denial. Go ahead and claim 20% is a mandate and grants unrestrained authority to do whatever you want to the other 80%. See how that works out for you.

Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

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Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

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post #61 of 125
Quote:
Originally Posted by jazzguru View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmac View Post

BZZZZZZZ!!!!!! Wrong! Show me where I did that.1wink.gif The real problem here is conservatives are so focused on losing they don't see it's a much bigger issue. Maybe in a couple of years they'll see the light ( or their favorite congressmen on the way out ). And how can the reasons be different than what I think? When they site much lower approval for " Republicans " how much clearer can you get?

 

But by all means live in denial. You're in good company.

 

So when you said "It's clearly what the voters want now MJ not just what Liberals want", what were you referring to? American Idol?

 

The "bigger issue" you refer to is much, much broader than the conservative vs. liberal false dilemma. It is, and always has been, about The State vs. YOU. Today, Republicans and Democrats are on the same team. It's obvious to anyone brave enough to look outside the mainstream media for their news and information.

 

Perhaps the dissatisfaction with the Congressional Republicans among some of their supporters is the fact that they are not talking about reducing the size and scope of government? That they are, instead, arguing with Democrats about which ways to perpetuate and grow it?

 

80% of the American people either didn't vote, or voted for someone other than Obama. But by all means, live in denial. Go ahead and claim 20% is a mandate and grants unrestrained authority to do whatever you want to the other 80%. See how that works out for you.

Yes the voters are an indicator but that's just the tip of the ice berg. I certainly didn't mean to imply that it was the only thing going on. If you look at the polls they're made up of voters as well. And just look at what they've been saying.1wink.gif

 

This is denial :

 

 

Quote:

Perhaps the dissatisfaction with the Congressional Republicans among some of their supporters is the fact that they are not talking about reducing the size and scope of government? That they are, instead, arguing with Democrats about which ways to perpetuate and grow it?

It's very clear that's not what these polls are saying Jazzy. They are fed up with things not getting done. It's also clear why that's happening. They want their congressman to do his/her job. Not just say " No " to everything that wasn't their idea. And in the polls Jazzy it's clear they can see that. That's what they are tired of. The polls say in very clear terms the " voters " polled there think the Republicans are at the heart of the problem.

 

And Jazzy this is even for Republican voters. If you've read some of the links you could see that.

 

No amount of spin on this will change anything. The times are changing and even the GOP recognizes they are doing something wrong. But like a sleeping giant they'll be too slow to react before their actions ( for years now ) will take their toll.You might as well stop trying to look at this another way and expect it to all go away. That just won't work anymore let me assure you. The writing's on the wall Jazzy. Refusing to look at it won't change the outcome. Face it. The Repuiblicans from the 80's and the 90's just don't fit in the 21rst century.1wink.gif

 

 

 

Please read this :

 

http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/general_politics/january_2013/63_of_gop_voters_think_republicans_in_congress_out_of_touch


Edited by jimmac - 2/14/13 at 3:04pm
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post #62 of 125
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmac View Post

Yes the voters are an indicator but that's just the tip of the ice berg. I certainly didn't mean to imply that it was the only thing going on. If you look at the polls they're made up of voters as well. And just look at what they've been saying.1wink.gif

 

This is denial :

 

 

It's very clear that's not what these polls are saying Jazzy. They are fed up with things not getting done. It's also clear why that's happening. They want their congressman to do his/her job. Not just say " No " to everything that wasn't their idea. And in the polls Jazzy it's clear they can see that. That's what they are tired of. The polls say in very clear terms the " voters " polled there think the Republicans are at the heart of the problem.

 

And Jazzy this is even for Republican voters. If you've read some of the links you could see that.

 

No amount of spin on this will change anything. The times are changing and even the GOP recognizes they are doing something wrong. But like a sleeping giant they'll be too slow to react before their actions ( for years now ) will take their toll.You might as well stop trying to look at this another way and expect it to all go away. That just won't work anymore let me assure you. The writing's on the wall Jazzy. Refusing to look at it won't change the outcome. Face it. The Repuiblicans from the 80's and the 90's just don't fit in the 21rst century.1wink.gif

 

We're obviously not having the same conversation. Carry on.

Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

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Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

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post #63 of 125
Quote:
Originally Posted by jazzguru View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmac View Post

Yes the voters are an indicator but that's just the tip of the ice berg. I certainly didn't mean to imply that it was the only thing going on. If you look at the polls they're made up of voters as well. And just look at what they've been saying.1wink.gif

 

This is denial :

 

 

It's very clear that's not what these polls are saying Jazzy. They are fed up with things not getting done. It's also clear why that's happening. They want their congressman to do his/her job. Not just say " No " to everything that wasn't their idea. And in the polls Jazzy it's clear they can see that. That's what they are tired of. The polls say in very clear terms the " voters " polled there think the Republicans are at the heart of the problem.

 

And Jazzy this is even for Republican voters. If you've read some of the links you could see that.

 

No amount of spin on this will change anything. The times are changing and even the GOP recognizes they are doing something wrong. But like a sleeping giant they'll be too slow to react before their actions ( for years now ) will take their toll.You might as well stop trying to look at this another way and expect it to all go away. That just won't work anymore let me assure you. The writing's on the wall Jazzy. Refusing to look at it won't change the outcome. Face it. The Repuiblicans from the 80's and the 90's just don't fit in the 21rst century.1wink.gif

 

We're obviously not having the same conversation. Carry on.

At least not one that you want to have.1wink.gif

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post #64 of 125
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmac View Post

At least not one that you want to have.1wink.gif

 

No really, you're having a conversation with a figment of your imagination. You're assuming all sorts of things about me and my intentions and addressing these assumptions in your replies instead of what I'm actually saying.

Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

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post #65 of 125
Quote:
Originally Posted by jazzguru View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmac View Post

At least not one that you want to have.1wink.gif

 

No really, you're having a conversation with a figment of your imagination. You're assuming all sorts of things about me and my intentions and addressing these assumptions in your replies instead of what I'm actually saying.

I'm mearly replying to the things you've said. I make no assumptions. That's why I've quoted you. And please Jazzy don't try to make this about me and try to derail That won't work either.1wink.gif

Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
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Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
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post #66 of 125
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmac View Post

I'm mearly replying to the things you've said. I make no assumptions. That's why I've quoted you. And please Jazzy don't try to make this about me and try to derail That won't work either..1wink.gif

 

It always degenerates into a pissing contest with you. No substance whatsoever, just an attempt to get in that last little jab so you can declare that you've "won" the non-debate. I should have known better than to take your carefully disguised trollbait.

 

And now, you may post your final jab and declare victory.

Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

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Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

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post #67 of 125
Quote:
Originally Posted by jazzguru View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmac View Post

I'm mearly replying to the things you've said. I make no assumptions. That's why I've quoted you. And please Jazzy don't try to make this about me and try to derail That won't work either..1wink.gif

 

It always degenerates into a pissing contest with you. No substance whatsoever, just an attempt to get in that last little jab so you can declare that you've "won" the non-debate. I should have known better than to take your carefully disguised trollbait.

 

And now, you may post your final jab and declare victory.

 

Quote:

It always degenerates into a pissing contest with you.

Not just me. You can easily see that with anyone who's not conservative on this forum. If you speak your opinion and then back it up with facts from the web you can count on it becoming this because the conservatives always send it there in the end. Probably a lack of facts on their side for support. And well anyone who deals in statements they can't back up.....well what label would you put on that?

 

 

What usually happens is you wait until the person is gone and then you redefine what the other person is saying ( talk about assumptions ) to change what they've said so it fits your argument ( like this one

 

Quote:
Perhaps the dissatisfaction with the Congressional Republicans among some of their supporters is the fact that they are not talking about reducing the size and scope of government? That they are, instead, arguing with Democrats about which ways to perpetuate and grow it?

 

When clearly the article I supplied wasn't saying that and neither were the polls. All the Republicans ever do is talk about reducing the size of government. The polls and the article were talking about their negative reactions to everything not Republican. About the GOP Congressmen being more Teapublican than what they're supposed to represent. So nothing gets done. The lack of them trying to work with the other side. It's not like they haven't been able to do that in the past. Also there's plenty of evidence that Obama has bent over backwards trying to work with them in the first term. So much so it's pissed off the liberal base and they have felt betrayed.

 

This M.O with the Republicans has become so blatant it's losing them votes with the new demographic that's voting. The GOP is slowly coming to understand that. The voting public out there believes that the GOP only spins things, are intransigent and out of touch,  and supporting the rich is all that's important to them. That doesn't set well with that new demographic so the GOP have come to realize they have to do some changing they just don't get how much.

 

This doesn't mean they have to give up being conservative. Having a conservative party is vital to what makes this country work. They just need to become conservatives that support a real view that benifits the whole country not just the wealthy. And they need to understand they must work with the Democrats and not just say no to everything. They have to work with the other side and not just drag their heels to always get what they want. They have to give a little. Like Republicans used to. Like the Democrats have been doing.

 

 So back to what happens when there's no evidence to support your side. If redefinition doesn't work  the smart remark about that person. If that doesn't work it's call them a name and declare the whole debate invalid! This is what happens when someone believes in what they've said so much they defend it with facts not name calling and won't back down. So who's into a pissing contest? You know you could have tried to show how Republicans weren't obstructionist or some evidence that showed those polls are in error ( pretty hard to work with black and white I'll give you that ). If this was such a non debate why is it you replied so many times? All I did was draw attention to something and you kept trying to turn it into something else. When that failed you called me a troll.

 

Now I've asked nicely to not make this about me and stay on topic however it seems you just can't do that.


Edited by jimmac - 2/14/13 at 6:53pm
Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
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Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
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post #68 of 125
Quote:
One of the most important is that RomneyCare was a state level vs. national level plan.

Bullshit. Obamacare is almost point for point parallel with the Heritage Plan, which was Republican, conservative championed NATIONAL POLICY.

post #69 of 125
Quote:
Originally Posted by jazzguru View Post

 

No really, you're having a conversation with a figment of your imagination. You're assuming all sorts of things about me and my intentions and addressing these assumptions in your replies instead of what I'm actually saying.

 

You can only blame yourself for engaging. He's only been doing this for the past decade or so.

The evil that we fight is but the shadow of the evil that we do.
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The evil that we fight is but the shadow of the evil that we do.
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post #70 of 125
Quote:
Originally Posted by tonton View Post

Bullshit. Obamacare is almost point for point parallel with the Heritage Plan, which was Republican, conservative championed NATIONAL POLICY.

 

Assuming that the Heritage Foundation could actually speak for all Republicans, and even discounting that the Heritage Plan was an attempt to fend off a worse Democratic policy (introducing single payer to the U.S.), could you please show where the Heritage Plan advocated that religious Americans be forced by law to participate in providing free contraception?

The evil that we fight is but the shadow of the evil that we do.
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The evil that we fight is but the shadow of the evil that we do.
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post #71 of 125

but...but...but...but... It's not the same! See... look at this little speck right here. Proved it!

post #72 of 125

If you think forcing people to violate their conscience for your political gain is a little thing, that might explain why you're a liberal.

The evil that we fight is but the shadow of the evil that we do.
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The evil that we fight is but the shadow of the evil that we do.
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post #73 of 125

And if you think being a one issue voter is an honorable position, then it might explain why you're currently supporting the losing party.

 

Oh... and Obama has compromised TWICE now on the birth control mandate (and you people claim he never compromises), so that's an issue that's in the past. According to you, I guess that means Republicans should be supporting Obamacare, right?

post #74 of 125
Quote:
Originally Posted by jazzguru View Post

80% of the American people either didn't vote, or voted for someone other than Obama. [...] Go ahead and claim 20% is a mandate and grants unrestrained authority to do whatever you want to the other 80%.

WTF?! You're combining all the non-voters, which include many that can't legally vote for various reasons, in your argument for being against Obama and the Democratic party. That's that some Limbaughian shit right there. Let's imagine what would happen if everyone in the US did have a vote. Children, convicted felons who are predominately black, and illegals. You're mistaken to think that would help the GOP and their Medieval mindset.

"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

 

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"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

 

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post #75 of 125
Quote:
Originally Posted by jazzguru View Post

80% of the American people either didn't vote, or voted for someone other than Obama. [...] Go ahead and claim 20% is a mandate and grants unrestrained authority to do whatever you want to the other 80%.

WTF?! You're combining all the non-voters, which include many that can't legally vote for various reasons, in your argument for being against Obama and the Democratic party. That's that some Limbaughian shit right there. Let's imagine what would happen if everyone in the US did have a vote. Children, convicted felons who are predominately black, and illegals. You're mistaken to think that would help the GOP and their Medieval mindset.

"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

 

Goodbyeee jragosta :: http://forums.appleinsider.com/t/160864/jragosta-joseph-michael-ragosta

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"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

 

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post #76 of 125

I was wondering about that too. Let's pretend for an instant that voting was mandatory. Does anyone think Obama would have gotten even less of a majority than he did? And these people expect us to take them seriously?

post #77 of 125
Quote:
Originally Posted by tonton View Post

Oh... and Obama has compromised TWICE now on the birth control mandate (and you people claim he never compromises), so that's an issue that's in the past. According to you, I guess that means Republicans should be supporting Obamacare, right?

 

No, because an an announcement of an 'Obama compromise' is normally just a lie.

 

This is an administration so liberal that a Bible publisher isn't deemed to be sufficiently religious to warrant religious freedom protections.

 

After Obama's grand 'compromise', Catholic hospitals and educational institutions are still being forced to participate in an action they deem against their religion and business-owning Christians are still fighting for their conscience rights. These cases are still winding their way through the courts.

 

So no, it's not in the past. This is very much in the present.

 

And if you want to know why people still doubt Obama's commitment to Christianity, this would be Exhibit A.

You don't have to be Catholic to see the principle here.

The evil that we fight is but the shadow of the evil that we do.
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The evil that we fight is but the shadow of the evil that we do.
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post #78 of 125

Any yet, someone who openly wonders about a president's "commitment to Christianity" expects people to think he knows anything at all about anything at all.

 

Any president with a "commitment to Christianity" is not only a failed president, but is breaking the law.

post #79 of 125
Quote:
Originally Posted by tonton View Post

Any yet, someone who openly wonders about a president's "commitment to Christianity" expects people to think he knows anything at all about anything at all.

 

Any president with a "commitment to Christianity" is not only a failed president, but is breaking the law.

 

Don't be ridiculous. A committed Christian would be sensitive to other people's conscience rights. All people's conscience rights.

 

That doesn't require breaking any law. On the contrary, it's a proper reading of the U.S. Bill of Rights. ('or prohibiting the free exercise thereof')

 

Again, I'm not even Catholic, and I can see why the gov't forcing them to be part of a free contraception plan violates their religious rights.

The evil that we fight is but the shadow of the evil that we do.
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The evil that we fight is but the shadow of the evil that we do.
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post #80 of 125

Don't you get it? The only "conscience rights" that are relevant in the birth control debate and the abortion debate are the conscience rights of the woman who chooses whether or not to use birth control or have an abortion. What you want to do is to force your conscience on her. Not a very Christian thing to do, in the way that I read the New Testament.

 

And the President of the United States cannot lead by your interpretation or even the popular interpretation of any religion, whatsoever. That is what would be against the law.

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