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Apple TV, imagined by Steve Jobs to be Apple's "fourth leg," now becomes its sixth

post #1 of 40
Thread Starter 
While Steve Jobs described Apple TV as potentially becoming Apple's "fourth leg" supporting the company in 2007, there are now five major business "legs" ahead of it.

Apple TV


As noted by Horace Dediu of Asymco, just by itself Apple's newly isolated iTunes/Software/Services business "begins to look increasingly as a viable 'leg stool' upon which Apple rests."

That observation is an allusion to a comment made by Steve Jobs back in 2007, when he expressed, at the introduction of the iPhone and Apple TV, that, "we hope the iPhone is the third leg on our chair, and maybe one day Apple TV will be the fourth leg."

At the time, Jobs described Apple has having two legs, "the Mac business, which is a $10 billion business, and music, our iPod and iTunes business, which is $10 billion."

From two legs under $20 billion to six legs supporting $156 billion



Today, five years later, Apple's "stool" has more than four legs, but the company has shifted how it counts them. In 2012, the Mac grew into a $23.2 billion business, while the iPhone has grown into a $78.7 billion enterprise. The iPad, which didn't appear until 2010, is now a $30.9 billion "leg."

Apple Revised Revenues 2012


However, rather than counting iTunes along with iPod sales, Apple has separated them. That leaves iPods alone as a $5.6 billion business (which has rapidly been cannibalized by iPhones and iPads delivering iPod features via an app).

Separately, iTunes media, apps and other software and related licensing and services revenue has grown into a $12.9 billion business, alongside a $5.2 billion Accessories leg.

Categorized within "Accessories" are all of Apple's hardware peripherals and first and third party accessories (ranging from headphones to cases). This includes sales of Apple TV.

So rather than being Apple's "fourth leg" as Jobs imagined it might in 2007, Apple TV is filling out part of its sixth leg, narrowly behind the iPod but less than half the size of iTunes/Software/Services (which is now roughly half the size of both the iPad and Mac legs, which are both less than half the size of the iPhone).

Does Apple need new legs, or can it grow bigger ones?



A variety of observers are hoping that Apple will launch an entirely new product "leg" represented by TVs, watches, or other speculative new hardware products.

However, the blockbuster growth of Apple's existing six major businesses are already making once invisible products (like software and accessory sales) nearly as large in terms of revenue ($18 billion) as Apple's entire business was in 2006 ($19.32 billion).
post #2 of 40
Meanwhile the uninformed masses out there think Apple is going down the tubes based on what they see and hear in the media. I just got back from a BBQ on the beach where I overheard a discussion about how a Korean company was wiping Apple out. I kept my mouth filled with beer and burgers and said nothing. 1hmm.gif
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Enjoying the new Mac Pro ... it's smokin'
Been using Apple since Apple ][ - Long on AAPL so biased
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post #3 of 40

The sixth leg may yet be advertising / search / maps.

 

Apple needs to:

1.  Get Eddy Cue to improve Maps and make it the default on Mac OS X and iOS devices.

2.  Get William Stasior to integrate an advanced search engine and advertising into SIRI and make it the default search in OS X and iOS devices.

3.  Apple TV can then become the 7th leg with items 1 & 2 integrated.

 

Time will tell.

post #4 of 40
"1. Get Eddy Cue to improve Maps and make it the default on Mac OS X and iOS devices."

it is the default on ios.

and I could say, Os X too, with iPhoto for example (and the fact, never Os X had a "default" maps choice)


"2. Get William Stasior to integrate an advanced search engine and advertising into SIRI and make it the default search in OS X and iOS devices."

hu what ? mayyyybe.. even if I love siri, there is no reason I should do all my search by speaking.

"Time will tell" than Apple will do something no pundit or blogs could predict correctly.
post #5 of 40
Quote:
Originally Posted by digitalclips View Post

Meanwhile the uninformed masses out there think Apple is going down the tubes based on what they see and hear in the media. I just got back from a BBQ on the beach where I overheard a discussion about how a Korean company was wiping Apple out. I kept my mouth filled with beer and burgers and said nothing. 1hmm.gif

How many burgers and beers did you have? Good job though because correcting a fool is folly within itself.
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post #6 of 40
Quote:
Originally Posted by digitalclips View Post

Meanwhile the uninformed masses out there think Apple is going down the tubes based on what they see and hear in the media. I just got back from a BBQ on the beach where I overheard a discussion about how a Korean company was wiping Apple out. I kept my mouth filled with beer and burgers and said nothing. 1hmm.gif

 

I think that it would be fair to state that 'Nokia (in its day) was/is the pride of Finland'. Why is Apple not the pride of the US? (Notwithstanding the huge pride that many Americans have in the company.) I simply do not understand Apple bashing in the US. Perhaps the attitude stems from the days when a now almost irrelevant software company dominated the local market for computer operating systems and some applications. Now however, the competition is from a foreign conglomerate.

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post #7 of 40
Quote:
Originally Posted by IQatEdo View Post

I think that it would be fair to state that 'Nokia (in its day) was/is the pride of Finland'. Why is Apple not the pride of the US? (Notwithstanding the huge pride that many Americans have in the company.) I simply do not understand Apple bashing in the US. Perhaps the attitude stems from the days when a now almost irrelevant software company dominated the local market for computer operating systems and some applications. Now however, the competition is from a foreign conglomerate.

There are a number of factors:

1. 10-20 years ago, Apple-bashing was very popular. Microsoft had such a lock on the PC market that anyone using Macs was perceived as a weirdo. Add to that the fact that corporate IT managers were so well paid by Microsoft (not cash, but perks) and anything from Apple was anathema. There is a massive bully characteristic in the US (perhaps elsewhere, too) that anything different becomes a victim.

2. There seem to be a significant number of people who are paid by Apple's competitors to badmouth them on forums like this one.

3. A number of analysts apparently shorted Apple stock and have been doing their best to drive the stock down.

4. There's a big effort to favor underdogs - and Apple stopped being the underdog about 5 years ago.
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post #8 of 40
Quote:
Originally Posted by IQatEdo View Post

I think that it would be fair to state that 'Nokia (in its day) was/is the pride of Finland'. Why is Apple not the pride of the US? (Notwithstanding the huge pride that many Americans have in the company.) I simply do not understand Apple bashing in the US. Perhaps the attitude stems from the days when a now almost irrelevant software company dominated the local market for computer operating systems and some applications. Now however, the competition is from a foreign conglomerate.

What else do the Finnish have to be proud of? Vodka and Angry Birds
"Few things are harder to put up with than the annoyance of a good example" Mark Twain
"Just because something is deemed the law doesn't make it just" - SolipsismX
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"Few things are harder to put up with than the annoyance of a good example" Mark Twain
"Just because something is deemed the law doesn't make it just" - SolipsismX
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post #9 of 40
Quote:
Originally Posted by digitalclips View Post

Meanwhile the uninformed masses out there think Apple is going down the tubes based on what they see and hear in the media. I just got back from a BBQ on the beach where I overheard a discussion about how a Korean company was wiping Apple out. I kept my mouth filled with beer and burgers and said nothing. 1hmm.gif

 

Agree. But more importantly...I am in Tampa, was my invitation to the beach BBQ lost or what?  :-)

post #10 of 40
Quote:
Originally Posted by dasanman69 View Post


What else do the Finnish have to be proud of? Vodka and Angry Birds

I don't know much about Finland but a country that could start up a company such as Nokia has to be pretty capable/competent. 1hmm.gif

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post #11 of 40
Quote:
Originally Posted by IQatEdo View Post

 

I think that it would be fair to state that 'Nokia (in its day) was/is the pride of Finland'. Why is Apple not the pride of the US? (Notwithstanding the huge pride that many Americans have in the company.) I simply do not understand Apple bashing in the US. Perhaps the attitude stems from the days when a now almost irrelevant software company dominated the local market for computer operating systems and some applications. Now however, the competition is from a foreign conglomerate.

 

Apple was always an innovator. It's a testament to the quality of the people at Apple that even it the darkest days, when it was run by clueless folks, it was still able to produce some pretty innovative stuff. Anyway, I think innovation can be hard for people to understand. This combined with some overly greedy days helped to obscure what apple was doing. Then there was recession, the rise of conservatism, anti-intellectualism, and the Walmart ethos, which all worked against Apple. When Steve came back he was way more experience and smarter, plus the underdog thing, but with another big downturn and the associated rise in simple thinking, there's a new wave of anti-Appleism. This time though, more people understand Apple's value proposition, so it's less of a big deal.

But, haters gonna hate!

post #12 of 40

I think Apple needs to make a more concerted effort in moving away from all things google.

They have already started with Maps. However this will take time.

In the meanwhile they could improve Siri, so that it interacts much more with iOS.

Ensure Siri does not use google at all.

Buy Wolfram and Yelp, or invest in them.

To me, Siri is central to all things Apple, perhaps in a few years it will have improved to such an extent that would really make it your own personal assistant.

Make the creation of text books much simplier, incorporate "intelligent" templates so those not so inclined in the areas of programming could utilise its best features, those of interactivity.

 

A question, does the google Maps App on iDevices in any way collect data to feed back to google ?

post #13 of 40
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta View Post


2. There seem to be a significant number of people who are paid by Apple's competitors to badmouth them on forums like this one.

Please tell me that you don't really believe that. If you have any positive proof of that claim I'd love to see. Me, I just think people like being a'holes
"Few things are harder to put up with than the annoyance of a good example" Mark Twain
"Just because something is deemed the law doesn't make it just" - SolipsismX
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"Few things are harder to put up with than the annoyance of a good example" Mark Twain
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post #14 of 40
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta View Post


There are a number of factors:

1. 10-20 years ago, Apple-bashing was very popular. Microsoft had such a lock on the PC market that anyone using Macs was perceived as a weirdo. Add to that the fact that corporate IT managers were so well paid by Microsoft (not cash, but perks) and anything from Apple was anathema. There is a massive bully characteristic in the US (perhaps elsewhere, too) that anything different becomes a victim.

2. There seem to be a significant number of people who are paid by Apple's competitors to badmouth them on forums like this one.

3. A number of analysts apparently shorted Apple stock and have been doing their best to drive the stock down.

4. There's a big effort to favor underdogs - and Apple stopped being the underdog about 5 years ago.

 

Thanks, I understand that. In respect of point number 2, the complexion of AI has changed hugely with the disaffected signing up to bash Apple. I don't have time for such as these, I have about 120 members on my ignore list.

 

All the best.

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post #15 of 40

Two more legs to grow before Apple can claim "Spider" status

post #16 of 40
Apple stock right now is a blind, three-legged monkey. The only way Apple's share price will go up to where it belongs is the company would have to become a centipede. I still can't get over why Google stock is worth $300 more a share than Apple or for that matter Intuitive Surgical shares are worth $100 more than Apple. Supposedly, and this is the way it really looks is that Microsoft's P/E is higher than Apple's because Microsoft has greater growth potential than Apple. Where is all this growth of Microsoft coming from? It's already pretty high in desktop market share and it doesn't seem to be gaining more. I know I don't understand much about company value, but things that should be common sense, don't seem to make any sense on Wall Street.

Is Google considered an underdog that it deserves to be favored so much? Google seems to be a pretty strong company and has been for years. As for Americans bashing home-grown companies and products it really has been a common thing for years. Americans support anything that will save them money and I suppose that is a global constant.
post #17 of 40
Quote:
Originally Posted by IQatEdo View Post

I don't know much about Finland but a country that could start up a company such as Nokia has to be pretty capable/competent. 1hmm.gif

I was being facetious.
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"Just because something is deemed the law doesn't make it just" - SolipsismX
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post #18 of 40
Quote:
Originally Posted by dasanman69 View Post


I was being facetious.

Gotcha! (There was no risk of you making my ignore list however lol.gif)

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post #19 of 40
Quote:
Originally Posted by hfts View Post

A question, does the google Maps App on iDevices in any way collect data to feed back to google ?

I'm pretty sure it does, but it's anonymously. Apple wouldn't have approved the app if it did otherwise.
"Few things are harder to put up with than the annoyance of a good example" Mark Twain
"Just because something is deemed the law doesn't make it just" - SolipsismX
Reply
"Few things are harder to put up with than the annoyance of a good example" Mark Twain
"Just because something is deemed the law doesn't make it just" - SolipsismX
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post #20 of 40
Quote:
Originally Posted by IQatEdo View Post

Gotcha! (There was no risk of you making my ignore list however lol.gif )

Give me time, I'm sure I'll piss you off eventually. 1wink.gif
"Few things are harder to put up with than the annoyance of a good example" Mark Twain
"Just because something is deemed the law doesn't make it just" - SolipsismX
Reply
"Few things are harder to put up with than the annoyance of a good example" Mark Twain
"Just because something is deemed the law doesn't make it just" - SolipsismX
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post #21 of 40
Dilger and Dediu. Analysis doesn't get any better.

Legs? I want wheels. An Apple IPlug vehicle.
post #22 of 40

Apple has a lot to get ready for OS XI is just around the corner and they are to bring the OS and iOS into the same style UI plus Siri plus Maps. Siri alone is quite an undertaking still. 

 

I would be happy with no other legs (burn the stock, who cares) and gets on with making what they have bullet proof. 

 

[if Apple would just spend those billions buying back stock and going privet, we could put all this nonsense aside and just create great products] 

post #23 of 40
Is there some internal competition for most occurrences of 'leg' or 'stool' in one story? He he he...stool.
post #24 of 40
I have been repeating myself on this and other forums. Apple is facing a unique challenge because of its size. The shorting of Apple is only feasible because Apple has so much value tied up in it's stock price, it is becoming increasing harder to get the necessary cash in flows from the stock market to keep inflating the stock price at the same rate. Apple stock makes of 15% of the total value of the entire market! Unless Apple begins to get more aggressive buying back its own stock, it will remain relatively easy and quite profitable to spin any news of slowing in Apple's sales growth as a sign of the company losing it's edge.
post #25 of 40
Quote:
Originally Posted by dasanman69 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by IQatEdo View Post

I think that it would be fair to state that 'Nokia (in its day) was/is the pride of Finland'. Why is Apple not the pride of the US? (Notwithstanding the huge pride that many Americans have in the company.) I simply do not understand Apple bashing in the US. Perhaps the attitude stems from the days when a now almost irrelevant software company dominated the local market for computer operating systems and some applications. Now however, the competition is from a foreign conglomerate.

What else do the Finnish have to be proud of? Vodka and Angry Birds

 

They defeated the overpowering forces of the USSR in World War II.

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post #26 of 40
Quote:
Originally Posted by DESuserIGN View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by IQatEdo View Post

 

I think that it would be fair to state that 'Nokia (in its day) was/is the pride of Finland'. Why is Apple not the pride of the US? (Notwithstanding the huge pride that many Americans have in the company.) I simply do not understand Apple bashing in the US. Perhaps the attitude stems from the days when a now almost irrelevant software company dominated the local market for computer operating systems and some applications. Now however, the competition is from a foreign conglomerate.

 

Apple was always an innovator. It's a testament to the quality of the people at Apple that even it the darkest days, when it was run by clueless folks, it was still able to produce some pretty innovative stuff. Anyway, I think innovation can be hard for people to understand. This combined with some overly greedy days helped to obscure what apple was doing. Then there was recession, the rise of conservatism, anti-intellectualism, and theWalmart ethos, which all worked against Apple. When Steve came back he was way more experience and smarter, plus the underdog thing, but with another big downturn and the associated rise in simple thinking, there's a new wave of anti-Appleism. This time though, more people understand Apple's value proposition, so it's less of a big deal.

But, haters gonna hate!

 

Sorry, but that!'s a whole lotta' crap!  The goal of any business is to make a profit at the risk of a loss -- assigning sins like "greed" to a corporation have no meaning -- what about "lust" or "sloth".

"...The calm is on the water and part of us would linger by the shore, For ships are safe in harbor, but that's not what ships are for."
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post #27 of 40
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post

They defeated the overpowering forces of the USSR in World War II.

Sorry but you are wrong. They lost, as can be deduced by the land grab of Karelia by the USSR. The Finns put up a strong resistance, although one supported by the Nazis.
You will be surprised to learn that many of the battles on the Eastern front were fought by combined Axis forces.
post #28 of 40
Quote:
Originally Posted by hfts View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post

They defeated the overpowering forces of the USSR in World War II.

Sorry but you are wrong. They lost, as can be deduced by the land grab of Karelia by the USSR. The Finns put up a strong resistance, although one supported by the Nazis.
You will be surprised to learn that many of the battles on the Eastern front were fought by combined Axis forces.

 

I don't believe that it was quite that simple... Finnish patriots held off against superior forces of all nations... While they lost territory, they prevented their country from being overrun and occupied -- like Latvia, Lithuania and Estonia -- then the whole of Eastern Europe.

 

The "facts" presented in the late 1940s and early 1950s are quite different than today's "facts".

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post #29 of 40
Quote:
Originally Posted by IQatEdo View Post

I think that it would be fair to state that 'Nokia (in its day) was/is the pride of Finland'. Why is Apple not the pride of the US? (Notwithstanding the huge pride that many Americans have in the company.) I simply do not understand Apple bashing in the US. Perhaps the attitude stems from the days when a now almost irrelevant software company dominated the local market for computer operating systems and some applications. Now however, the competition is from a foreign conglomerate.

I think because the Mac and later the iPhone and iPad were premium products that many people couldn't afford, especially back in the 90s, the general response was a defensive one, contributing to class struggle in which poorer people naturally had to use cheaper computers. That's where the anti-Apple sentiment grew from. It continues today even though you can get an iPhone free, albeit an older model (again, poor people are relegated to older models). I find myself disliking BMWs for the same reason, haha.
post #30 of 40
Quote:
Originally Posted by robogobo View Post


I think because the Mac and later the iPhone and iPad were premium products that many people couldn't afford, especially back in the 90s, the general response was a defensive one, contributing to class struggle in which poorer people naturally had to use cheaper computers. That's where the anti-Apple sentiment grew from. It continues today even though you can get an iPhone free, albeit an older model (again, poor people are relegated to older models). I find myself disliking BMWs for the same reason, haha.

 

It's the opposite. Apple's products are no longer the premium products they used to be. In fact on a bus, constantly you can find the majority of people there are using Apple products. And I see plenty of 'poor' people owning iPhones/iPads (judging from what they're doing/dressing). 

post #31 of 40
Once they have the TV worked out properly I hope they take on software again.. It has sort of gotten forgotten about. Apple software isn't as awesome as it could be. Now, with Jony Ive on top, who knows what will happen?
Apple Software as a whole could be a leg.
post #32 of 40
Quote:
Originally Posted by dasanman69 View Post


I'm pretty sure it does, but it's anonymously. Apple wouldn't have approved the app if it did otherwise.


I believe there is an option to opt out of the data collection, you just need to find it in the options.

post #33 of 40
Quote:
Originally Posted by oomu View Post

"1. Get Eddy Cue to improve Maps and make it the default on Mac OS X and iOS devices."

it is the default on ios.

and I could say, Os X too, with iPhoto for example

iPhoto, just like Aperture, uses Google Maps, not Apple Maps.
post #34 of 40
Quote:
Originally Posted by hfts View Post


Sorry but you are wrong. They lost, as can be deduced by the land grab of Karelia by the USSR. The Finns put up a strong resistance, although one supported by the Nazis.

 

At best it was a pyrrhic victory for the USSR...

 

post #35 of 40
A watch would be part of the iPod leg as I see it.
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post #36 of 40
Quote:
Originally Posted by hfts View Post

I think Apple needs to make a more concerted effort in moving away from all things google.

They have already started with Maps. However this will take time.

In the meanwhile they could improve Siri, so that it interacts much more with iOS.

Ensure Siri does not use google at all.

Buy Wolfram and Yelp, or invest in them.

To me, Siri is central to all things Apple, perhaps in a few years it will have improved to such an extent that would really make it your own personal assistant.

Make the creation of text books much simplier, incorporate "intelligent" templates so those not so inclined in the areas of programming could utilise its best features, those of interactivity.

 

A question, does the google Maps App on iDevices in any way collect data to feed back to google ?

I agree. Apple should distance itself from Google and Samsung. I think Siri is Apple's answer to Search and the TV remote. Most "computer" tasks I much prefer to do on my iOS device. If I can't do it on my iOS device, I put a lot of effort into researching how I could modify the task to then be able to do it on my iOS devise. E.g., printing (although I do a lot less lately), Taxes, charts, etc.

post #37 of 40
They need to get into gaming and they already have the pieces in play to do it. Gamecenter for leader boards, App Store for digital distribution/3rd party apps, iTunes for music/video content and airplay to put it all on your tv. If they merged these all into the Apple TV they would have a device that would kill the ouya before it even hit shelves. Hopefully they are working on this.
post #38 of 40
Quote:
Originally Posted by drobforever View Post

It's the opposite. Apple's products are no longer the premium products they used to be. In fact on a bus, constantly you can find the majority of people there are using Apple products. And I see plenty of 'poor' people owning iPhones/iPads (judging from what they're doing/dressing). 

I think you are misusing the word "premium" there. They are still premium products, and your "poorer" people recognize that too, and thus want to use them.

I think you mean Apple's products are no longer the "exclusive" products they used to be. Everbody wants them, and more are getting them. That's ok. They are still premium products.

One of the great things Apple is doing is that they are democratizing high quality.
post #39 of 40
Originally Posted by hfts View Post
Sorry but you are wrong. They lost, as can be deduced by the land grab of Karelia by the USSR.

 

No, the Russians won on paper and nowhere else.

Originally posted by Marvin

Even if [the 5.5” iPhone exists], it doesn’t deserve to.
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Originally posted by Marvin

Even if [the 5.5” iPhone exists], it doesn’t deserve to.
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post #40 of 40
Quote:
Originally Posted by dasanman69 View Post


What else do the Finnish have to be proud of? Vodka and Angry Birds

 

I'm sure they're proud of their education system, consistently ranked best in the world.

 

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/11/27/best-education-in-the-wor_n_2199795.html

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