Apple updates processors and drops prices of MacBook Pro with Retina Display [u] - Page 2

How is it that there's nothing else on the market even close to the resolution and it's 'overpriced'? A couple hundred dollar premium for the best screen on the planet? If you don't want it, that's fine, but that doesn't make it overpriced.


That's ridiculous. You're comparing a fully loaded 13" to the base 15". When you compare comparably equipped models, the 13" is about $600-700 less than the 17". Hardly overpriced.


ROTFLMAO.

Acer Aspire S7 (http://www.cnet.com/laptops/acer-aspire-s7-391/4505-3121_7-35472847.html)
1.9 GHz i7 (2 cores)
1920x1080
4 GB RAM
256 GB SSD
MSRP $1650, lowest price $1578

Apple MBP 13" retina
2.4 GHz i5 (2 cores)
2560x1600
8 GB RAM
128 GB SSD
MSRP $1499, lowest price est $1399

Even if we upgrade the SSD, we have:
2.4 GHz i5 (2 cores)
2560x1600
8 GB RAM
256 GB SSD
MSRP $1699, lowest price set $1599

Your Acer costs as much or more and has a much slower processor, less RAM, and vastly inferior display. The Asus also has the same problems - plus reviews say that its SSD is slow and the touchpad is very erratic.

If that's your idea of comparable computers, it's no wonder you're such a big fan of crapware from other vendors.

Then buy one.

But if you look at these great comparables that Gatorguy suggested, you might be better off to buy the MBP and wipe the drive to install Windows.

That's nice, but compared to 2560-by-1600, 2.5GHz vs 1.7 GHz, 8GB vs. 4GB RAM, the Acer is not competitive.

The Acer is touch screen though, if that's your thing, maybe the other trade-offs are worth it.

Ack, I forgot to post it. jragosta beat me to it.

Yes, I went back and edited the original post, as they're not "retina-grade" for less than $1700 which is the only thing Soli said he was trying to find. Thanks Jeff.

http://www.amazon.com/Acer-S7-391-6810-13-3-Inch-Touchscreen-Ultrabook/dp/B009H2CL1S

 

Lowest price for their touchscreen notebook is under $1300.

Uh huh. That one is an even slower processor than the one that was reviewed above. I'm sure that 1.7 GHz processor is going to be really fast when combined with half the RAM of the MBP. Oh, and even with such a slow processor, it's only 6 hours of battery life.

Great job. I guess if your only concern is price and you don't mind a crappy processor, inferior display, half the RAM, and shorter battery life in order to save a couple hundred dollars, that might be OK.

 

Try running Xcode, Illustrator and Safari at the same time. It's fine at the moment with 8GB but that RAM is non-upgradeable. A machine with 8GB will almost certainly struggle in two years time.

 

Perhaps, but the real story is that they lowered the price of SSD storage across their notebook line. The 256GB, 512GB, and 768GB SSD options are all significantly cheaper than before.

 

I purchased my 13 rMBP the day after Christmas from MacMall with insurance proceeds as I lost my MacBook Air while traveling home for the holidays. Sure, I'd rather have paid today's prices for what I got, but that's technology. I've gotten over 6 weeks of solid service from my rMBP since then. The 15" rMBP was on sale for over 6 months. While the 13" was only on sale since October, it was pretty clear from the initial pricing that it wasn't priced to be a volume seller. Perhaps Apple's yields were too low on the display back in October, and they now have production issues sorted and can make it mainstream. I'm not surprised at all with the price drop. The Retinas will probably be the only MacBook Pros by late summer.

 

My best guess is that they think it would kill demand for the 15" model. With the way that the 13" MBPr is going, I wouldn't be surprised if we see more consolidation in the near future. Dropping the 11" Air would be a start as that product is too limited to begin with. Even though Apple would likely never say it, I'll bet that it is the lowest selling laptop at this point. The fact that they still have two 13" machines is increasingly odd; the Pro already jettisoned the HDD and added a Retina display, if they continue going down this road, I wouldn't be surprised to see the Air get a Retina display @ WWDC. At that point, deciding between the Air and Pro is so minor that most people (at least the non-nerds among us) are going to have a harder time deciding which one fits their needs.

 

 

 

 

 

 

I could see them doing this as a stopgap measure until Haswell  (and the HD 4600) is ready later this year, but given their recent attitudes with regard to graphics hardware, it's probably unrealistic. For whatever reason, Apple seems unwilling to push forward with GPUs in Macs - See OpenCL, falling behind in terms of OpenGL support, and changes to the graphics stack that make it less likely to engage the discrete GPU. Faster and more powerful Kepler chips (Read: More memory) have been available for a while. The only semi-logical reason I can come up with is given Apple's troubles with GPU's in the past (Again, Nvidia 8600 and the AMD/ATI chips in the old MacBook Pros), they don't want to go through that again and so are being conservative in the parts they select instead of going with the highest performing models that they can get.  

 

 

The lack of a GPU upgrade is a bigger deal than you might think. Speaking from experience with a late 2007 MBP that was recently retired, the GPU is probably the biggest sticking point for me when looking for a new machine (Nvidia 8600M GT, I curse you). In addition, AnandTech's review of the original Retina MBP showed that even though Apple worked with Nvidia to write drivers for the 650M, the integrated graphics (Intel HD 4000) were somewhat underpowered when tasked with driving that many pixels. Don't get me wrong, the performance is acceptable, but they can do better. Apple was probably betting that Haswell would be ready by the time they introduced a portable with a Retina display and while Ivy Bridge isn't bad by any means, it's not quite up to the level of performance that they need to ensure a smooth, consistent experience. If Intel can deliver on their roadmap, the integrated performance should see a boost with the HD 4600.

Soli said he could not find any other notebooks with an IPS Retina-equivalent display. I was trying (unsuccessfully) to point him to a couple. If you're looking for a spec match (or better) to Apple's MacBook with Retina I've not tried to find one myself. There may not be anything.

 

EDIT: This is the most recent "recommended" list I can find. Of course the Macbook w/Retina is there

http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2369981,00.asp

Edited by Gatorguy - 2/13/13 at 8:03am

Agreed. I was surprised that the RAM didn't get bumped in either model. Apple sells iMacs (and to a lesser extent, Mac Pros) with 32 GB, so why not do it for the laptop line, which, when combined, probably outsells the iMac.

How stupid would you be if you complained.   Anybody with any intelligence at all would have realized that the prices of these machines would come down over time and fairly quickly.   The use of flash and retina displays means that Apple would be seeing substantial decreases in costs as the the technologies mature or in the case of flash moves to new process nodes.  

 

It should have been obvious to anybody with anything more than a peanut between their ears that the machines would be cheaper in the future.  

I get 165.63 (don't forget it's 13.3", not 13") which means you'd have to be sitting more than 20" away before you'd get the Retina effect for someone with 20/20 vision. For comparison the 13" RMBP only needs to be just over 15" away. It's still a great IPS display at 1920x1080 and the price of that Ultrabook seems very reasonable. Unfortunately Acer seems to have gotten the display right but skimped in other areas according to AT's review.

Can a $1650 ($1300 at Amazon) Ultrabook be successful when even the AT reviewer says he won't pay more than $1000 for an Ultrabook and the ASP of a WinPC is nearly half the cost of this machine? Personally, I hope that Ultrabooks will get Windows users into invest more in a decent PC but that ship looks like it sailed long ago. For too long the only innovations we've seen in shipping WinPCs seems to be creative ways to cut costs. We finally have HiDPI and IPS on a machine that isn't too expensive… and it's long over due.

 

This should be a sticky. 

Of course they can do better but the point is that spending more for a machine that suits my needs less simply won't make sense. It was less than a week ago I talked my brother out of buying a 13" RMBP now. I told him to wait for a revision so they could update the iGPU and perhaps they may finally be able to offer these displays in the MBAs. His usage is completely different from mine hence the suggestion was warranted, but in no way does that mean the current 13" RMBP is useless, overpriced, poorly designed or anything else. Like all PCs there are use cases that can make one better or worse for a user but it's never a blanket statement.

Yep!   The high price was there to deal with demand as production was ramped up.   Now we have an additional factor here in that flash prices have dropped due to new nodes coming on line.   These two factors will lead to a much more interesting value equation.  

Yes high on purpose!    To me this signals that Apple and its screen vendors have successfully ramped production of retina class screens.  By this time next year retina density screens will likely be the norm.   People need to think a bit here about iPad and its pricing, a 13" screen isn't that much bigger so the costs and difficulty can't be that much greater.   

I haven't verified it but I think that Acer S7 might be more closely related to the MBA than the MBP. That 1.9GHz Core-i7 (note that i7 is required for the Ultrabook rating) is likely a ULV which may cost more than the CPU in the MBPs, even thought it is slower.


edit: Yep!

Core i7-3517U - 17W - $346 — http://ark.intel.com/products/65714

i5-3210M - 35W - $225 — http://ark.intel.com/products/65708
Edited by SolipsismX - 2/13/13 at 8:23am

Certainly taking it like a man; commendable.

I agree; who uses Facebook¿

So get a rMBP and install VMware Fusion. We're using rMBP's in the office with Windows 7 with no problem.

So what is the problem with focusing on the fact that they where overpriced at introduction?    He said nothing wrong and is just highlighting the facts.   Beyond that, in Apples case, they do it to moderate demand until production catches up.   The only real problem here is that people make excuses for Apple or complain loudly, instead of just grasping what is going on and acting intelligently.   It just isn't smart to be an early adopter of new technology if you aren't willing to pay the cost.  

If that's the case then I don't see any other conclusion than the are now using a smaller node process to double the NAND density.

But why the 64GB MBA still holding on? I assume that will be gone when they get updated.

The 13" would make a great deal of sense if it had discrete GPUs, I'm not in a rush to buy I hope by 2014 with Broadwell out the graphics improvements would negate the need for a discrete GPU.

Yeah, I saw that on Ars. Their reporting of the pricing and parts changes was clearer, because they weren't trying to work in a shout out to their advertising partners.

 

By definition 1920x1080 is "retina-grade" display IF you sit at the recommended viewing distance for HDTVs.  For a 13" diagonal screen 16:9 screen that means no closer than 1.69 feet in order to meet the 60 pixels per degree standard for "retina" displays.

 

The reason that HDTVs are looking at 4K is because 1080 replicates the view from the FURTHEST seat in the theater and most folks (for theater anyway) prefer to sit closer and with ever larger screens available it's no longer as awkward to do so for HDTVs.

 

For the 13" MBPr you can be as near as 15" (vs 20" for the Acer) before someone with 20/20 vision can resolve a single pixel.  

 

PPI by itself is a useless spec.  Viewing distance must also be considered before something can be considered "retina".  

 

Sitting naturally from my 15" 2010 MBP my eyes are around 23" from the surface of the screen.  For a 13" screen I'd probably want to be a little closer.  15" means I'm leaning forward with my arms at a more awkward angle relative to the keyboard.

That's the ONLY conclusion?

What about the simple fact that electronics prices decline over time?

So apparently the quote button in the mobile Huddler no longer quotes the post you are replying to?
Figures.

This was coming... The end of cMBP.

 

rMBP to the same price points.

Well, holy crap! Apple seems to be getting off of their ridiculously overpriced upgrades, particularly around the RAM and SSD capacity.

Try running XCode on a 2008 MBP with just 2GB of RAM.    I'm rather shocked at just how hungry an IDE can be these days for RAM.     However the bigger issue with modern software is having enough cores to keep all the threads running  interactively.   At some point you have to upgrade anyways, with 8GB of RAM I see other parts of the machine becoming an issue before RAM does.    

 

That being said I would not object to more RAM, it is just that looking two to four years into the future it is hard to say what will be a shortcoming on today's machines.   Considering my issue with HD space I'm willing to bet that the SSD capacity will be a bigger issue in that time frame.  SSD capacity at a reasonable cost is what has kept me away from an update to my MBP.    I will have to look over the new pricing carefully.   

 

Sadly does anybody think that this might be an indication of a long wait for Haswell based Mac Books?    If this was just a flash update I wouldn't bother to ask but the processor bumps make me think we have another six months ahead of us.  

He must've loved that advise with todays news! (Or is it today's news?)

 

Yes.  It's a smart strategy for Apple but it does mean to be an early adopter you over pay.  That's always to case for an early adopter so arguing that this isn't happening is silly.  

 

The 13" MBPr was simply not that great a value and the lack of a discrete GPU makes it not as "Pro" as it should be in comparison to the MBA.

 

I'd gladly pay $1,999 for a 13" MBPr 2.9 Ghz dual core i7 with a GT640M.  That puts it below the base 15" MBPr in performance and not far below in terms of price for a slightly smaller form factor that's nice for mobility.  As is it's a compromised machine for too many pros.

Can someone post what these were previously, for comparison? How much was the drop?

Um, my statement can't be possible without a drop in electronics prices. I'm being more specific than simply saying they are getting a better deal with the tech but saying they are getting newer tech that is doubling the capacity of NAND for about the same price as it was previously. It's also likely how we got the 128GB iPad. This wasn't possible in large quantities last year.

My point was that most people don't know about (or look at) specs when deciding what to buy these days. From that perspective, the Air and the 13" Pro are close enough that I could see people having a more difficult time choosing which one meets their needs. Again, most people on here would consider themselves "nerds" and are probably looking closer at the specs of these machines. 

 

As I said, the area that concerns me the most looking at Apple's current hardware is the GPU. This isn't because I want to do anything really graphics intensive, but because I've had issues in the past with hardware not lasting as long as it should or not performing well. I only wish they would choose higher performance parts to begin with.

The BTO options look the same:

256 = $200
512 = $500
768 = $900

While this looks like <$1/GB at some points, they take the 128GB out first so it's really:

128 = $200
384 = $500
640 = $900

Retail prices are about $0.7-0.9/GB, Apple is around $1.30-1.50/GB. They're better than they have been with other components but it would be nice to see them hit under $1/GB or at least deduct $100 for the 128GB drive they keep. Maybe even give the buyer the lower drive they take out in a small USB 3 enclosure to use as a pen drive. If it had a bootable partition with the OS installer on it, even better.

I expected them to do this price shift when Haswell arrived. I wonder what will happen when it does arrive. I doubt they can eliminate the rest of the older lineup because the gap is still too much.

 

Yay for you. You don't *DO* anything other than punch text on your machine. You sound like a guy standing at a race track arguing that there's no need for anything more than a 98 horsepower 4-banger for carrying groceries. True, but completely irrelevant to those whose needs are CONSIDERABLY more demanding.

So the 15" RMBPs get a spec bump and the higher-end model comes with double the RAM for the price as before. Nice!




Source: http://www.anandtech.com/show/6744/apple-cuts-pricing-on-macbook-pro-with-retina-display-and-ssd-upgrades


In no way do I disagree with your desires. I have no problem with Apple offering a dGPU for the 13" MBP and I can see how you might not like the 11" MBP and the 13" RMBP both using the same iGPU but I've used the 13" RMBP and it's in no way a bad machine, and if the only other option is a dGPU that 1) results in removing some of the battery size to make it fit, 2) adding more heatsinks, a bigger fan, etc. for better cooling, and 3) additional power consumption for the fan, the GPU, etc. I'm going to say that a dGPU isn't the best choice for that machine.

I understand that WebKit is being updated to make scrolling better and they are clearly pushing the envelope in many ways but I've bee hearing the stories of woe about iGPUs since they first appeared. i can't say I ever had any complaint about my 2010 13" MBP's Nvidia 320M, except that it didn't like to playback YouTube videos in 1080p or 4K in Flash… not that that was ever an issue on a 1280x768 display.

I sound like someone that buys what they need when they need it instead of complaining that they've been wronged or that such-and-such is doing wrong because they aren't catering exactly to their personal needs.

 

Most likely they've run out of early adopters and have adjusted the prices accordingly. 

 

Standard MO for every tech company since the beginning of time.

Interesting to see that they kill off the 15" cMBP for $1,999 though happy to see that the 13" retina now starts at $1,499.

Edit: I see now they changed it into a BTO option. My fault. I like that.