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Apple updates processors and drops prices of MacBook Pro with Retina Display [u] - Page 2

post #41 of 144
Quote:
Originally Posted by scott6666 View Post

Frankly, they were overpriced to begin with.  This is just a step to returning them to normal Apple pricing.

The price premiums they put in when they first released retina were pretty high.

Quote:
Originally Posted by herbapou View Post

the 13" was way overprice for something with no GPU.  Its an improvement at $1500, it fits the MacBook Air with retina needs.  But I still think you need a GPU to drive that resolution, so its not a PC for either gaming or serious video/photo editing.

How is it that there's nothing else on the market even close to the resolution and it's 'overpriced'? A couple hundred dollar premium for the best screen on the planet? If you don't want it, that's fine, but that doesn't make it overpriced.

Quote:
Originally Posted by herbapou View Post

Overprice compare to Apple own 15" RMBP...  look at the specs, you almost have to be a fool the buy the 13" at $1700.  Makes a bit more sense at 1500$

That's ridiculous. You're comparing a fully loaded 13" to the base 15". When you compare comparably equipped models, the 13" is about $600-700 less than the 17". Hardly overpriced.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gatorguy View Post

How about the Acer Aspire S7? List is $1399, but it's commonly available for under $1300. There's also the Asus Zenbook Prime (UX31A) at $1399 list price. There may be others. That was just a quick search.

ROTFLMAO.

Acer Aspire S7 (http://www.cnet.com/laptops/acer-aspire-s7-391/4505-3121_7-35472847.html)
1.9 GHz i7 (2 cores)
1920x1080
4 GB RAM
256 GB SSD
MSRP $1650, lowest price $1578

Apple MBP 13" retina
2.4 GHz i5 (2 cores)
2560x1600
8 GB RAM
128 GB SSD
MSRP $1499, lowest price est $1399

Even if we upgrade the SSD, we have:
2.4 GHz i5 (2 cores)
2560x1600
8 GB RAM
256 GB SSD
MSRP $1699, lowest price set $1599

Your Acer costs as much or more and has a much slower processor, less RAM, and vastly inferior display. The Asus also has the same problems - plus reviews say that its SSD is slow and the touchpad is very erratic.

If that's your idea of comparable computers, it's no wonder you're such a big fan of crapware from other vendors.
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post #42 of 144
Quote:
Originally Posted by stelligent View Post


In some instances, my need is not to run Windows on a Mac. My need is a Windows computer.

Then buy one.

But if you look at these great comparables that Gatorguy suggested, you might be better off to buy the MBP and wipe the drive to install Windows.
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post #43 of 144
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gatorguy View Post

How is it not "retina-grade"? 1920x1080 IPS display. List price on the Acer according to Amazon is $1399. 
http://www.amazon.com/Acer-S7-391-6810-13-3-Inch-Touchscreen-Ultrabook/dp/B009H2CL1S


You didn't comment at all on the Asus. It's not comparable either?

That's nice, but compared to 2560-by-1600, 2.5GHz vs 1.7 GHz, 8GB vs. 4GB RAM, the Acer is not competitive.

The Acer is touch screen though, if that's your thing, maybe the other trade-offs are worth it.

Ack, I forgot to post it. jragosta beat me to it.
post #44 of 144
Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffDM View Post


That's nice, but compared to 2560-by-1600, 2.5GHz vs 1.7 GHz, 8GB vs. 4GB RAM, the Acer is not competitive.

The Acer is touch screen though, if that's your thing, maybe the other trade-offs are worth it.

Ack, I forgot to post it. jragosta has it.

Yes, I went back and edited the original post, as they're not "retina-grade" for less than $1700 which is the only thing Soli said he was trying to find. Thanks Jeff.

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post #45 of 144
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta View Post

Acer Aspire S7 (http://www.cnet.com/laptops/acer-aspire-s7-391/4505-3121_7-35472847.html)
MSRP $1650, lowest price $1578



Your Acer costs as much or more and has a much slower processor, less RAM, and vastly inferior display. The Asus also has the same problems - plus reviews say that its SSD is slow and the touchpad is very erratic.

http://www.amazon.com/Acer-S7-391-6810-13-3-Inch-Touchscreen-Ultrabook/dp/B009H2CL1S

 

Lowest price for their touchscreen notebook is under $1300.

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post #46 of 144
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gatorguy View Post

http://www.amazon.com/Acer-S7-391-6810-13-3-Inch-Touchscreen-Ultrabook/dp/B009H2CL1S


Lowest price for their touchscreen notebook is under $1300.

Uh huh. That one is an even slower processor than the one that was reviewed above. I'm sure that 1.7 GHz processor is going to be really fast when combined with half the RAM of the MBP. Oh, and even with such a slow processor, it's only 6 hours of battery life.

Great job. I guess if your only concern is price and you don't mind a crappy processor, inferior display, half the RAM, and shorter battery life in order to save a couple hundred dollars, that might be OK.
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post #47 of 144
Quote:
Originally Posted by stelligent View Post


What do you run that requires 16 GB? There are very few power apps running on a 13" laptop that can truly make use of that much memory, unless you are running Windows in Parallels.

 

Try running Xcode, Illustrator and Safari at the same time. It's fine at the moment with 8GB but that RAM is non-upgradeable. A machine with 8GB will almost certainly struggle in two years time.

post #48 of 144
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogifan View Post

Hmm...must not have been selling as well as they hoped?

 

Perhaps, but the real story is that they lowered the price of SSD storage across their notebook line. The 256GB, 512GB, and 768GB SSD options are all significantly cheaper than before.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mobius View Post

This is good news. But how pissed would you be if you'd just bought one.

 

I purchased my 13 rMBP the day after Christmas from MacMall with insurance proceeds as I lost my MacBook Air while traveling home for the holidays. Sure, I'd rather have paid today's prices for what I got, but that's technology. I've gotten over 6 weeks of solid service from my rMBP since then. The 15" rMBP was on sale for over 6 months. While the 13" was only on sale since October, it was pretty clear from the initial pricing that it wasn't priced to be a volume seller. Perhaps Apple's yields were too low on the display back in October, and they now have production issues sorted and can make it mainstream. I'm not surprised at all with the price drop. The Retinas will probably be the only MacBook Pros by late summer.

post #49 of 144
Quote:
Originally Posted by tpf1952 View Post

How about providing a 16 GM RAM option for the 13" rMBP?

 

My best guess is that they think it would kill demand for the 15" model. With the way that the 13" MBPr is going, I wouldn't be surprised if we see more consolidation in the near future. Dropping the 11" Air would be a start as that product is too limited to begin with. Even though Apple would likely never say it, I'll bet that it is the lowest selling laptop at this point. The fact that they still have two 13" machines is increasingly odd; the Pro already jettisoned the HDD and added a Retina display, if they continue going down this road, I wouldn't be surprised to see the Air get a Retina display @ WWDC. At that point, deciding between the Air and Pro is so minor that most people (at least the non-nerds among us) are going to have a harder time deciding which one fits their needs.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post


Is $200 worth not waiting for 3 months?
1) You repeat that it has no GPU in a clear reference to an iGPU but then conclude by suggesting people wait for the next iGPU. If the 4000 doesn't suit you why will you be satisfied with the 5000? What about it will make a world of difference after you've stated. "I still think you need a GPU to drive that resolution, so its not a PC for either gaming or serious video/photo editing."

2) As someone who has been using 13" MBPs, 13" MBs, and 12" PBs for a very long time I can say I've never cared about the GPU performance so long as it drives the display for my needs. I am not a gamer nor a video or photo editor. If I was I certainly wouldn't want a 13" notebook as my primary PC. Note the 12" PB had a dGPU but there is no way I'd trade that for the iGPUs that came in the Intel machines.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by herbapou View Post

 

I meant the 13" RMBP should have a discreet GPU like the GT 650m.  But at $1500, the same machine with an intel Haswell CPU w/HD5000 would be decent since its 2.5 times faster than the HD4000.   Still no gaming machine, but at least it would be able to run old games or do photo editing without choking. 

 

The 13" RMBP is a broken product to me, its as a major GPU bottleneck that makes the machine useless for anything other than web browsing and desktop apps. Its a very expensive facebook laptop.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by RichL View Post

I'm waiting for a GPU bump before pulling the trigger on a 15" MBPr. My 2010 MBP is still going strong (mostly thanks to the SSD I upgraded it to).

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vorsos View Post

 

Agreed. I'm no engineer, but a GPU update seems more complicated than using a newer revision of the same CPU model. At least for the rMBPs and their current Woz-style double-resolution-downscaled hack.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by herbapou View Post

 

I have the 27" imac with the GTX 680mx.  The imac has roughly the same resolution as the 15" rMBP. You cant squeeze an mx chip into a laptop, but the 680m would have been a nice optional upgrade for the 15" rMBP.  

 

That being said, the GT 650m is still a decent GPU, its no high end gaming GPU like the 680mx, but it will run World of warcraft at "good" settings. At this point in time you a better off waiting for the next refresh indeed.

 

I could see them doing this as a stopgap measure until Haswell  (and the HD 4600) is ready later this year, but given their recent attitudes with regard to graphics hardware, it's probably unrealistic. For whatever reason, Apple seems unwilling to push forward with GPUs in Macs - See OpenCL, falling behind in terms of OpenGL support, and changes to the graphics stack that make it less likely to engage the discrete GPU. Faster and more powerful Kepler chips (Read: More memory) have been available for a while. The only semi-logical reason I can come up with is given Apple's troubles with GPU's in the past (Again, Nvidia 8600 and the AMD/ATI chips in the old MacBook Pros), they don't want to go through that again and so are being conservative in the parts they select instead of going with the highest performing models that they can get.  

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post


That's just ridiculous on all levels.
And yet I never would have paid $400 more for a machine that was less portable and less ideal for my needs. If not for my desire to get a new iMac I would have bought a 13" RMBP last year. I've been using iGPUs since i switched from my 12" PB back in 2005(?) and I've never once thought to myself "Gee, I wish TextEdit would render my text faster.

 

The lack of a GPU upgrade is a bigger deal than you might think. Speaking from experience with a late 2007 MBP that was recently retired, the GPU is probably the biggest sticking point for me when looking for a new machine (Nvidia 8600M GT, I curse you). In addition, AnandTech's review of the original Retina MBP showed that even though Apple worked with Nvidia to write drivers for the 650M, the integrated graphics (Intel HD 4000) were somewhat underpowered when tasked with driving that many pixels. Don't get me wrong, the performance is acceptable, but they can do better. Apple was probably betting that Haswell would be ready by the time they introduced a portable with a Retina display and while Ivy Bridge isn't bad by any means, it's not quite up to the level of performance that they need to ensure a smooth, consistent experience. If Intel can deliver on their roadmap, the integrated performance should see a boost with the HD 4600.

post #50 of 144
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta View Post


Uh huh. That one is an even slower processor than the one that was reviewed above. I'm sure that 1.7 GHz processor is going to be really fast when combined with half the RAM of the MBP. Oh, and even with such a slow processor, it's only 6 hours of battery life.

Great job. I guess if your only concern is price and you don't mind a crappy processor, inferior display, half the RAM, and shorter battery life in order to save a couple hundred dollars, that might be OK.

Soli said he could not find any other notebooks with an IPS Retina-equivalent display. I was trying (unsuccessfully) to point him to a couple. If you're looking for a spec match (or better) to Apple's MacBook with Retina I've not tried to find one myself. There may not be anything.

 

EDIT: This is the most recent "recommended" list I can find. Of course the Macbook w/Retina is there

http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2369981,00.asp


Edited by Gatorguy - 2/13/13 at 8:03am
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post #51 of 144
Quote:
Originally Posted by RichL View Post

 

Try running Xcode, Illustrator and Safari at the same time. It's fine at the moment with 8GB but that RAM is non-upgradeable. A machine with 8GB will almost certainly struggle in two years time.

Agreed. I was surprised that the RAM didn't get bumped in either model. Apple sells iMacs (and to a lesser extent, Mac Pros) with 32 GB, so why not do it for the laptop line, which, when combined, probably outsells the iMac.

post #52 of 144

How stupid would you be if you complained.   Anybody with any intelligence at all would have realized that the prices of these machines would come down over time and fairly quickly.   The use of flash and retina displays means that Apple would be seeing substantial decreases in costs as the the technologies mature or in the case of flash moves to new process nodes.  

 

It should have been obvious to anybody with anything more than a peanut between their ears that the machines would be cheaper in the future.  

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mobius View Post

This is good news. But how pissed would you be if you'd just bought one.

post #53 of 144
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gatorguy View Post

How is it not "retina-grade"? 1920x1080 IPS display. List price on the Acer according to Amazon is $1399. 
http://www.amazon.com/Acer-S7-391-6810-13-3-Inch-Touchscreen-Ultrabook/dp/B009H2CL1S


You didn't comment at all on the Asus. It's not comparable either?

EDIT: Gotcha now Soli. The PPI works out to around 170 I think, whereas it needs to get to about 215ppi for a laptop to be "retina-grade". 
My bad.1smile.gif
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gatorguy View Post

Yes, I went back and edited the original post, as they're not "retina-grade" for less than $1700 which is the only thing Soli said he was trying to find. Thanks Jeff.

I get 165.63 (don't forget it's 13.3", not 13") which means you'd have to be sitting more than 20" away before you'd get the Retina effect for someone with 20/20 vision. For comparison the 13" RMBP only needs to be just over 15" away. It's still a great IPS display at 1920x1080 and the price of that Ultrabook seems very reasonable. Unfortunately Acer seems to have gotten the display right but skimped in other areas according to AT's review.

Can a $1650 ($1300 at Amazon) Ultrabook be successful when even the AT reviewer says he won't pay more than $1000 for an Ultrabook and the ASP of a WinPC is nearly half the cost of this machine? Personally, I hope that Ultrabooks will get Windows users into invest more in a decent PC but that ship looks like it sailed long ago. For too long the only innovations we've seen in shipping WinPCs seems to be creative ways to cut costs. We finally have HiDPI and IPS on a machine that isn't too expensive… and it's long over due.

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post #54 of 144
Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard Getz View Post

I love it: 

 

When Apple products are "too expensive" people rage at the price and make fun of us that buy them. 

 

When Apple lowers the price due to part savings, manufacturing processes, etc. then it's because Apple market share was suffering and they need to sell more. 

 

This should be a sticky. 

post #55 of 144
Quote:
Originally Posted by CMF View Post

The lack of a GPU upgrade is a bigger deal than you might think. Speaking from experience with a late 2007 MBP that was recently retired, the GPU is probably the biggest sticking point for me when looking for a new machine (Nvidia 8600M GT, I curse you). In addition, AnandTech's review of the original Retina MBP showed that even though Apple worked with Nvidia to write drivers for the 650M, the integrated graphics (Intel HD 4000) were somewhat underpowered when tasked with driving that many pixels. Don't get me wrong, the performance is acceptable, but they can do better. Apple was probably betting that Haswell would be ready by the time they introduced a portable with a Retina display and while Ivy Bridge isn't bad by any means, it's not quite up to the level of performance that they need to ensure a smooth, consistent experience. If Intel can deliver on their roadmap, the integrated performance should see a boost with the HD 4600.

Of course they can do better but the point is that spending more for a machine that suits my needs less simply won't make sense. It was less than a week ago I talked my brother out of buying a 13" RMBP now. I told him to wait for a revision so they could update the iGPU and perhaps they may finally be able to offer these displays in the MBAs. His usage is completely different from mine hence the suggestion was warranted, but in no way does that mean the current 13" RMBP is useless, overpriced, poorly designed or anything else. Like all PCs there are use cases that can make one better or worse for a user but it's never a blanket statement.

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post #56 of 144

Yep!   The high price was there to deal with demand as production was ramped up.   Now we have an additional factor here in that flash prices have dropped due to new nodes coming on line.   These two factors will lead to a much more interesting value equation.  

Quote:
Originally Posted by scott6666 View Post

Frankly, they were overpriced to begin with.  This is just a step to returning them to normal Apple pricing.

 

The price premiums they put in when they first released retina were pretty high.

Yes high on purpose!    To me this signals that Apple and its screen vendors have successfully ramped production of retina class screens.  By this time next year retina density screens will likely be the norm.   People need to think a bit here about iPad and its pricing, a 13" screen isn't that much bigger so the costs and difficulty can't be that much greater.   

post #57 of 144
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta View Post

Uh huh. That one is an even slower processor than the one that was reviewed above. I'm sure that 1.7 GHz processor is going to be really fast when combined with half the RAM of the MBP. Oh, and even with such a slow processor, it's only 6 hours of battery life.

Great job. I guess if your only concern is price and you don't mind a crappy processor, inferior display, half the RAM, and shorter battery life in order to save a couple hundred dollars, that might be OK.

I haven't verified it but I think that Acer S7 might be more closely related to the MBA than the MBP. That 1.9GHz Core-i7 (note that i7 is required for the Ultrabook rating) is likely a ULV which may cost more than the CPU in the MBPs, even thought it is slower.


edit: Yep!

Core i7-3517U - 17W - $346http://ark.intel.com/products/65714

i5-3210M - 35W - $225http://ark.intel.com/products/65708
Edited by SolipsismX - 2/13/13 at 8:23am

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post #58 of 144
Quote:
Originally Posted by techfox View Post

Wow I did not see this coming. 3 months I've had mine for...

Bit gutting but that's life I guess.

Certainly taking it like a man; commendable.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by herbapou View Post

Its a very expensive facebook laptop.

That's just ridiculous on all levels.

I agree; who uses Facebook¿
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post #59 of 144
Quote:
Originally Posted by stelligent View Post

This is not a new trend. MacBook Air started off more expensive than it is today, when SSD drives were not as cheap.

Having said that, I do believe the marvels of Retina Display on a laptop are totally under-appreciated. I wish it was available on more Windows laptops, as I need to work on both Windows and Mac OS.

So get a rMBP and install VMware Fusion. We're using rMBP's in the office with Windows 7 with no problem.
post #60 of 144

So what is the problem with focusing on the fact that they where overpriced at introduction?    He said nothing wrong and is just highlighting the facts.   Beyond that, in Apples case, they do it to moderate demand until production catches up.   The only real problem here is that people make excuses for Apple or complain loudly, instead of just grasping what is going on and acting intelligently.   It just isn't smart to be an early adopter of new technology if you aren't willing to pay the cost.  

Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffDM View Post


Please. An initial (very high) premium happens with every introduction of a new technology. Every company does it. You either ignored it or have selective amnesia. For example, take a look at the 4TB HDDs against the price of typical 3TB hard drives, the cost per GB is considerably higher. You'd pay at least twice as much for 33% more storage. Tech companies need to do this, to recoup the development cost, and they aren't giving their best away at bargain prices, that's a quick way to die in the tech world.

Apple was doing pretty darn well, the limited supply of iMacs was chiefly holding down their numbers.
post #61 of 144
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleGreen View Post

Somebody correct me if I am wrong, but it looks like they have cut SSD prices across the board.  For all MBPs and MBAs.

If that's the case then I don't see any other conclusion than the are now using a smaller node process to double the NAND density.

But why the 64GB MBA still holding on? I assume that will be gone when they get updated.

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post #62 of 144
The 13" would make a great deal of sense if it had discrete GPUs, I'm not in a rush to buy I hope by 2014 with Broadwell out the graphics improvements would negate the need for a discrete GPU.

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post #63 of 144
Yeah, I saw that on Ars. Their reporting of the pricing and parts changes was clearer, because they weren't trying to work in a shout out to their advertising partners.

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post #64 of 144
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gatorguy View Post

How is it not "retina-grade"? 1920x1080 IPS display. List price on the Acer according to Amazon is $1399. 

http://www.amazon.com/Acer-S7-391-6810-13-3-Inch-Touchscreen-Ultrabook/dp/B009H2CL1S

 

You didn't comment at all on the Asus. It's not comparable either?

 

EDIT: Gotcha now Soli. The PPI works out to around 170 I think, whereas it needs to get to about 215ppi for a laptop to be "retina-grade". 

My bad.1smile.gif

 

By definition 1920x1080 is "retina-grade" display IF you sit at the recommended viewing distance for HDTVs.  For a 13" diagonal screen 16:9 screen that means no closer than 1.69 feet in order to meet the 60 pixels per degree standard for "retina" displays.

 

The reason that HDTVs are looking at 4K is because 1080 replicates the view from the FURTHEST seat in the theater and most folks (for theater anyway) prefer to sit closer and with ever larger screens available it's no longer as awkward to do so for HDTVs.

 

For the 13" MBPr you can be as near as 15" (vs 20" for the Acer) before someone with 20/20 vision can resolve a single pixel.  

 

PPI by itself is a useless spec.  Viewing distance must also be considered before something can be considered "retina".  

 

Sitting naturally from my 15" 2010 MBP my eyes are around 23" from the surface of the screen.  For a 13" screen I'd probably want to be a little closer.  15" means I'm leaning forward with my arms at a more awkward angle relative to the keyboard.

post #65 of 144
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

If that's the case then I don't see any other conclusion than the are now using a smaller node process to double the NAND density.

That's the ONLY conclusion?

What about the simple fact that electronics prices decline over time?
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post #66 of 144
So apparently the quote button in the mobile Huddler no longer quotes the post you are replying to?
Figures.

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post #67 of 144

This was coming... The end of cMBP.

 

rMBP to the same price points.

post #68 of 144
Well, holy crap! Apple seems to be getting off of their ridiculously overpriced upgrades, particularly around the RAM and SSD capacity.
post #69 of 144

Try running XCode on a 2008 MBP with just 2GB of RAM.    I'm rather shocked at just how hungry an IDE can be these days for RAM.     However the bigger issue with modern software is having enough cores to keep all the threads running  interactively.   At some point you have to upgrade anyways, with 8GB of RAM I see other parts of the machine becoming an issue before RAM does.    

 

That being said I would not object to more RAM, it is just that looking two to four years into the future it is hard to say what will be a shortcoming on today's machines.   Considering my issue with HD space I'm willing to bet that the SSD capacity will be a bigger issue in that time frame.  SSD capacity at a reasonable cost is what has kept me away from an update to my MBP.    I will have to look over the new pricing carefully.   

 

Sadly does anybody think that this might be an indication of a long wait for Haswell based Mac Books?    If this was just a flash update I wouldn't bother to ask but the processor bumps make me think we have another six months ahead of us.  

Quote:
Originally Posted by RichL View Post

 

Try running Xcode, Illustrator and Safari at the same time. It's fine at the moment with 8GB but that RAM is non-upgradeable. A machine with 8GB will almost certainly struggle in two years time.

post #70 of 144
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

It was less than a week ago I talked my brother out of buying a 13" RMBP now. I told him to wait for a revision...

He must've loved that advise with todays news! (Or is it today's news?)
"See her this weekend. You hit it off, come Turkey Day, maybe you can stuff her."
- Roger Sterling
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"See her this weekend. You hit it off, come Turkey Day, maybe you can stuff her."
- Roger Sterling
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post #71 of 144
Quote:
Originally Posted by wizard69 View Post

So what is the problem with focusing on the fact that they where overpriced at introduction?    He said nothing wrong and is just highlighting the facts.   Beyond that, in Apples case, they do it to moderate demand until production catches up.   The only real problem here is that people make excuses for Apple or complain loudly, instead of just grasping what is going on and acting intelligently.   It just isn't smart to be an early adopter of new technology if you aren't willing to pay the cost.  

 

Yes.  It's a smart strategy for Apple but it does mean to be an early adopter you over pay.  That's always to case for an early adopter so arguing that this isn't happening is silly.  

 

The 13" MBPr was simply not that great a value and the lack of a discrete GPU makes it not as "Pro" as it should be in comparison to the MBA.

 

I'd gladly pay $1,999 for a 13" MBPr 2.9 Ghz dual core i7 with a GT640M.  That puts it below the base 15" MBPr in performance and not far below in terms of price for a slightly smaller form factor that's nice for mobility.  As is it's a compromised machine for too many pros.

post #72 of 144
Can someone post what these were previously, for comparison? How much was the drop?
post #73 of 144
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta View Post

That's the ONLY conclusion?

What about the simple fact that electronics prices decline over time?

Um, my statement can't be possible without a drop in electronics prices. I'm being more specific than simply saying they are getting a better deal with the tech but saying they are getting newer tech that is doubling the capacity of NAND for about the same price as it was previously. It's also likely how we got the 128GB iPad. This wasn't possible in large quantities last year.

"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

 

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post #74 of 144
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post


Of course they can do better but the point is that spending more for a machine that suits my needs less simply won't make sense. It was less than a week ago I talked my brother out of buying a 13" RMBP now. I told him to wait for a revision so they could update the iGPU and perhaps they may finally be able to offer these displays in the MBAs. His usage is completely different from mine hence the suggestion was warranted, but in no way does that mean the current 13" RMBP is useless, overpriced, poorly designed or anything else. Like all PCs there are use cases that can make one better or worse for a user but it's never a blanket statement.

My point was that most people don't know about (or look at) specs when deciding what to buy these days. From that perspective, the Air and the 13" Pro are close enough that I could see people having a more difficult time choosing which one meets their needs. Again, most people on here would consider themselves "nerds" and are probably looking closer at the specs of these machines. 

 

As I said, the area that concerns me the most looking at Apple's current hardware is the GPU. This isn't because I want to do anything really graphics intensive, but because I've had issues in the past with hardware not lasting as long as it should or not performing well. I only wish they would choose higher performance parts to begin with.

post #75 of 144
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleGreen View Post

Somebody correct me if I am wrong, but it looks like they have cut SSD prices across the board.  For all MBPs and MBAs.

The BTO options look the same:

256 = $200
512 = $500
768 = $900

While this looks like <$1/GB at some points, they take the 128GB out first so it's really:

128 = $200
384 = $500
640 = $900

Retail prices are about $0.7-0.9/GB, Apple is around $1.30-1.50/GB. They're better than they have been with other components but it would be nice to see them hit under $1/GB or at least deduct $100 for the 128GB drive they keep. Maybe even give the buyer the lower drive they take out in a small USB 3 enclosure to use as a pen drive. If it had a bootable partition with the OS installer on it, even better.

I expected them to do this price shift when Haswell arrived. I wonder what will happen when it does arrive. I doubt they can eliminate the rest of the older lineup because the gap is still too much.
post #76 of 144
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post


[...] I've been using iGPUs since i switched from my 12" PB back in 2005(?) and I've never once thought to myself "Gee, I wish TextEdit would render my text faster."

 

Yay for you. You don't *DO* anything other than punch text on your machine. You sound like a guy standing at a race track arguing that there's no need for anything more than a 98 horsepower 4-banger for carrying groceries. True, but completely irrelevant to those whose needs are CONSIDERABLY more demanding.

post #77 of 144
So the 15" RMBPs get a spec bump and the higher-end model comes with double the RAM for the price as before. Nice!




Source: http://www.anandtech.com/show/6744/apple-cuts-pricing-on-macbook-pro-with-retina-display-and-ssd-upgrades

Quote:
Originally Posted by CMF View Post

My point was that most people don't know about (or look at) specs when deciding what to buy these days. From that perspective, the Air and the 13" Pro are close enough that I could see people having a more difficult time choosing which one meets their needs. Again, most people on here would consider themselves "nerds" and are probably looking closer at the specs of these machines. 

As I said, the area that concerns me the most looking at Apple's current hardware is the GPU. This isn't because I want to do anything really graphics intensive, but because I've had issues in the past with hardware not lasting as long as it should or not performing well. I only wish they would choose higher performance parts to begin with.

In no way do I disagree with your desires. I have no problem with Apple offering a dGPU for the 13" MBP and I can see how you might not like the 11" MBP and the 13" RMBP both using the same iGPU but I've used the 13" RMBP and it's in no way a bad machine, and if the only other option is a dGPU that 1) results in removing some of the battery size to make it fit, 2) adding more heatsinks, a bigger fan, etc. for better cooling, and 3) additional power consumption for the fan, the GPU, etc. I'm going to say that a dGPU isn't the best choice for that machine.

I understand that WebKit is being updated to make scrolling better and they are clearly pushing the envelope in many ways but I've bee hearing the stories of woe about iGPUs since they first appeared. i can't say I ever had any complaint about my 2010 13" MBP's Nvidia 320M, except that it didn't like to playback YouTube videos in 1080p or 4K in Flash… not that that was ever an issue on a 1280x768 display.

"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

 

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post #78 of 144
Quote:
Originally Posted by v5v View Post

Yay for you. You don't *DO* anything other than punch text on your machine. You sound like a guy standing at a race track arguing that there's no need for anything more than a 98 horsepower 4-banger for carrying groceries. True, but completely irrelevant to those whose needs are CONSIDERABLY more demanding.

I sound like someone that buys what they need when they need it instead of complaining that they've been wronged or that such-and-such is doing wrong because they aren't catering exactly to their personal needs.

"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

 

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"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

 

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post #79 of 144
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogifan View Post

Hmm...must not have been selling as well as they hoped?

 

Most likely they've run out of early adopters and have adjusted the prices accordingly. 

 

Standard MO for every tech company since the beginning of time.

post #80 of 144
Interesting to see that they kill off the 15" cMBP for $1,999 though happy to see that the 13" retina now starts at $1,499.

Edit: I see now they changed it into a BTO option. My fault. I like that.
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