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Nokia rumored to join Apple in dumping Samsung as a supplier

post #1 of 62
Thread Starter 
With Apple known to be working overtime in its efforts to reduce its dependance on Samsung as a component supplier, word comes that other companies, including Nokia, are also considering plans to do the same thing, for similar reasons.

Apple's tight business partnership with Samsung became severely strained after the Korean electronics conglomerate initiated efforts to closely duplicate the success of the iPhone 3GS in 2010, followed by Samsung's subsequent cloning of the iPad and iPod touch under its "Galaxy" brand.

Samsung Galaxy copies Apple


While Apple remains Samsung's largest customer (and Samsung a critical source of Apple's components), there are clear indications that the iPhone maker is seeking to shift its business to other component manufacturers and chip fabs, the same way that Apple has worked to divorce itself from dependance on Google for maps and other online services.

And just as Apple isn't the only company that has left behind Google Maps, "Apple isn't the only one moving away from Samsung," a well connected hardware industry source tells AppleInsider.

Supplier turned competitor



Among the companies evaluating their alternatives is Nokia, the world's second largest phone maker after Samsung. Gartner credits Nokia with selling 85 million phones in Q4 2012, nearly twice the number of iPhones Apple sold (43.5 million) and about 80 percent of the almost 107 million phones Samsung sold.

Together, Apple, Nokia and Samsung built just over half of the world's phones sold in the quarter, and Samsung accounted for almost half of that number. Samsung not only builds the most phones, but it also builds much of the memory chips, processors, displays and other components that other vendors use, albeit making far more of its profits from finished phones compared to its component sales.

Samsung's interest in entering the much more profitable smartphone business explains why its System LSI subsidiary (which builds chips, and is distinct and removed from the company's phone development operations) launched an "iPhone effect analysis," in September 2007, observing that the "hardware portion" of Apple's iPhone would offer "easy imitation."

Samsung's System LSI had access to Apple's confidential semiconductor orders, but wasn't in charge of designing or building Samsung's phones, a fact highlighted in Apple's case against Samsung.



"Samsung copied Apple's four years of work without taking any of the risks," Apple's attorney stated, directing attention to another internal document from March 2010 that presented 100 pages of "detailed instructions of what to copy," several of which were Apple's patented features, including its double tap to zoom utility patent and a icons with a 3D lighting effect.

Samsung's "Firewall of Kimchi"



While the evidence that Samsung was methodically copying its largest customer's products only became public after Apple sued to stop Samsung, sources within other companies indicate that Samsung has behaved similarly with its other customers.

Fearing potential consequences to its component business, Samsung has made efforts to emphasize the presence of a "strict internal firewall" between its component fabrication operations and its its smartphone business.

Samsung's "'firewall' between component sales and smartphones is about as sturdy as a pile of kimchi"An unnamed Samsung executive told Reuters last fall that Samsung considered its supply contract with Apple a "separate issue from the litigation," and noted that this "strict internal firewall" had been erected to "avoid potential conflicts of interest" with its major customers like Apple. However, Apple isn't alone in being skeptical of the security of Samsung's "internal firewall."

"The 'firewall' between component sales and smartphones [at Samsung]," individual familiar with Nokia's component orders from Samsung states, is "about as sturdy as a pile of kimchi."

The individual stated that Samsung has "a record of getting orders for next-gen components, then canceling the orders. And then they show up in a Samsung phone. When you see a Samsung (certain specialized new design for) OLED phone as you surely will, you are looking at something that was stolen from Nokia."

In January, Samsung said it will not reduce capital investments this year, despite concerns around losing Apple's business. The company also warned that "the furious growth spurt seen in the global smartphone market last year is expected to be pacified by intensifying price competition."

Samsung has been recently portrayed as if it were actually a scrappy young underdog to Apple, and new to the smartphone and tablet markets rather than representing the status quo of the stagnant smartphones market that existed before the iPhone. The increasing visibility of Samsung's public relations efforts appears to highlight a growing concern within the company of losing its component customers.
post #2 of 62
"Apple isn't along in begin skeptical of the security of Samsung's "internal firewall.""

As usual, AI needs to hire a proofreader --- or writers who understand the English language.
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post #3 of 62

Maybe Sammy should start making smart toilets?

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post #4 of 62
Samsung is obviously a shameless copycat. They have copied every company you can ever think of by taking advantage of the supplier contracts to copy the industrial designs of those companies.
post #5 of 62
I am really really surprised that Steve Jobs trusted Samsung. Asian companies have over the years demonstrated a remarkable lack of ethics and ability to be truthful.

But given the fact is that as we have outsourced our manufacturing to Asian countries, to cut costs we have not only lost all our ability to develop and innovate new products but also to rebuild old products.

Even if Apple wanted to manufacture the iPhone in the US it could not - we just cannot do it.

That means we are forced to go to thieves like Samsung and give away our technology and intellectual property for free.

That is the true cost of outsourcing.
post #6 of 62
Apple itself is a copycat of the first LG touchscreen phone. Apple does not even have the technology of making flash, ram and touch screens, and therefore had to patent rectangular shapes and outsource manufacturing.
post #7 of 62
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsonice View Post

I am really really surprised that Steve Jobs trusted Samsung. Asian companies have over the years demonstrated a remarkable lack of ethics and ability to be truthful.

But given the fact is that as we have outsourced our manufacturing to Asian countries, to cut costs we have not only lost all our ability to develop and innovate new products but also to rebuild old products.

Even if Apple wanted to manufacture the iPhone in the US it could not - we just cannot do it.

That means we are forced to go to thieves like Samsung and give away our technology and intellectual property for free.

That is the true cost of outsourcing.

 

This whole post is offensive.  What a parochial point of view (possibly in more ways than one).  Who is "we" for instance?  Do you seriously think that the audience reading AppleInsider is composed strictly of white Americans? Also, "outsourcing" is an antiquated term now.  

post #8 of 62
Cannibalization, Samsung-style!
post #9 of 62
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsonice View Post

Even if Apple wanted to manufacture the iPhone in the US it could not - we just cannot do it.

That means we are forced to go to thieves like Samsung and give away our technology and intellectual property for free.

That is the true cost of outsourcing.

 

 

Unless you've read actual logistics or similar case studies, you're making things up.

post #10 of 62
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gazoobee View Post

 

This whole post is offensive.  What a parochial point of view (possibly in more ways than one).  Who is "we" for instance?  Do you seriously think that the audience reading AppleInsider is composed strictly of white Americans? Also, "outsourcing" is an antiquated term now.  

 

What's the hot new trendy term for "outsourcing" these days?

post #11 of 62
Quote:
Originally Posted by peter236 View Post

Apple itself is a copycat of the first LG touchscreen phone. Apple does not even have the technology of making flash, ram and touch screens, and therefore had to patent rectangular shapes and outsource manufacturing

The LG KE850 or the prada was first announced on December 12, 2006.   The design of the phone was shown in september of 2006. Just announced not sold or shown. An image of the device was shown in a press release on January 18th 2007.  Again the device was not shown.  It did not go on sale to the public untill May 2007. LG threatened apple with a lawsuit and quickly dropped it when apple showed them a working prototype of the apple iphone called "Purple" dated august 2005, and another working iphone prototype called "Howarth" dated march 2006.  Those prototypes were also shown in the apple vs. samsung lawsuit.

Infact apple started development of the iphone in 2004 with Jonathan Ive leading a team of 1000 to start to work on project "Purple".  Which later turned out to be the iPhone.

 

Steve Jobs unveiled the actual finished iPhone on January 9th 2007.  It went on sale on June 29th 2007.  Apple could prove without a shadow of a doubt that the iPhone was in development long before the prada LG KE850.  Hense LG dropping the lawsuit.  As for making flash memory apple makes there own memory controls (why make memory when you can buy it from one of a dozen companies of which samsung is just one) and has several patents for capacitive touch screens and a lot of innovation in that area.  Apple also designs its own processors based on armv7 the current version of which is one of the fastest mobile processors on the market (A6X). The reason the iPhone 5 is so thin is because of one of those capacitive touch screen patents.

 

The apple copied lg is wrong and a tired old rant.

 

The lg prada was a very limited touch screen phone and no where near the sensitivity of the iPhones screen and had far less touch sensors than the iphone.

post #12 of 62

So others are catching on to the CopyMaster's penchant for borrowing. Mmmm, I wonder if this is why information is coming out regarding an iWatch in the make from Apple. Would it be that Apple is giving FacsimileSam a chance to dive into the deep end of innovation on its own?

 

You know, after a while the name of the thief gets round and zipped pockets become the rage. China entrepreneur, be mindful. Opportunities opening up.

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post #13 of 62
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gazoobee View Post

This whole post is offensive.  What a parochial point of view (possibly in more ways than one).  Who is "we" for instance?  Do you seriously think that the audience reading AppleInsider is composed strictly of white Americans? Also, "outsourcing" is an antiquated term now.  

True. It is also composed of African Americans, Asian Americans, Arab Americans, Indian Americans and even Native Americans in addition to White Americans
post #14 of 62
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsonice View Post

But given the fact is that as we have outsourced our manufacturing to Asian countries, to cut costs we have not only lost all our ability to develop and innovate new products but also to rebuild old products.

Even if Apple wanted to manufacture the iPhone in the US it could not - we just cannot do it.

That means we are forced to go to thieves like Samsung and give away our technology and intellectual property for free.

That is the true cost of outsourcing.

 

 

Why not?  Samsung manufactures memory chips and Apple's Ax processors down in Austin, Texas.  In fact, Samsung Austin Semiconductor has been around since 1997 and has invested over $12B in that area so far. 

post #15 of 62
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mechanic View Post

The LG KE850 or the prada was first announced on December 12, 2006.   The design of the phone was shown in september of 2006. Just announced not sold or shown. An image of the device was shown in a press release on January 18th 2007.  Again the device was not shown.  It did not go on sale to the public untill May 2007. LG threatened apple with a lawsuit and quickly dropped it when apple showed them a working prototype of the apple iphone called "Purple" dated august 2005, and another working iphone prototype called "Howarth" dated march 2006.  Those prototypes were also shown in the apple vs. samsung lawsuit.
Infact apple started development of the iphone in 2004 with Jonathan Ive leading a team of 1000 to start to work on project "Purple".  Which later turned out to be the iPhone.

Steve Jobs unveiled the actual finished iPhone on January 9th 2007.  It went on sale on June 29th 2007.  Apple could prove without a shadow of a doubt that the iPhone was in development long before the prada LG KE850.  Hense LG dropping the lawsuit.  As for making flash memory apple makes there own memory controls (why make memory when you can buy it from one of a dozen companies of which samsung is just one) and has several patents for capacitive touch screens and a lot of innovation in that area.  Apple also designs its own processors based on armv7 the current version of which is one of the fastest mobile processors on the market (A6X). The reason the iPhone 5 is so thin is because of one of those capacitive touch screen patents.

The apple copied lg is wrong and a tired old rant.

The lg prada was a very limited touch screen phone and no where near the sensitivity of the iPhones screen and had far less touch sensors than the iphone.

That is an argument you will never win. Some people believe that Apple stole the iPad from Star Trek TNG too. There us no reasoning with that mentality.
post #16 of 62
I hope Samsung's replacement will be as competent as Samsung has been over the years. Love'em or hate'em they have been tops with their semiconductor products.

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post #17 of 62
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mechanic View Post

 

(...in short) ... The apple copied lg is wrong and a tired old rant.

The lg prada was a very limited touch screen phone and no where near the sensitivity of the iPhones screen and had far less touch sensors than the iphone.

Mechanic, I'm afraid the facts are lost on the confused AppleHaters. But I sure appreciate the history lesson. Good stuff.

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post #18 of 62
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mechanic View Post

The lg prada was a very limited touch screen phone and no where near the sensitivity of the iPhones screen and had far less touch sensors than the iphone.

I seem to recall it was capable of a single touch element. No pinch and zoom functionality.

I kind of feel bad for those LG developers. I have to think they were under the impression that they were making history with their design just to get completely trounced by the iPhone before they could even have a proper demo of it. I wonder how many of the designers had wanted to work to add dual-touch or wanted to release it the previous year. Can you imagine them watching the 2007 MacWorld keynote of Jobs iPhone presentation. They had to be blown away.

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post #19 of 62
Quote:
Originally Posted by DESuserIGN View Post

What's the hot new trendy term for "outsourcing" these days?

"Business as usual."
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post #20 of 62
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsonice View Post

I am really really surprised that Steve Jobs trusted Samsung. Asian companies have over the years demonstrated a remarkable lack of ethics and ability to be truthful.

But given the fact is that as we have outsourced our manufacturing to Asian countries, to cut costs we have not only lost all our ability to develop and innovate new products but also to rebuild old products.

Even if Apple wanted to manufacture the iPhone in the US it could not - we just cannot do it.

That means we are forced to go to thieves like Samsung and give away our technology and intellectual property for free.

That is the true cost of outsourcing.

But Cook just said Apple doesn't know the meaning of the word impossible. Apple used to build lots if things in the US. Truth is tax laws and accounting rules favor setting shop up overseas.
post #21 of 62
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post


I seem to recall it was capable of a single touch element. No pinch and zoom functionality.

I kind of feel bad for those LG developers. I have to think they were under the impression that they were making history with their design just to get completely trounced by the iPhone before they could even have a proper demo of it. I wonder how many of the designers had wanted to work to add dual-touch or wanted to release it the previous year. Can you imagine them watching the 2007 MacWorld keynote of Jobs iPhone presentation. They had to be blown away.

 

In addition to having less sophisticated hardware (note that the LG Prada was also just an EDGE phone like the original iPhone, didn't even have bragging rights to 3G) and being more expensive, the phone also had a simple, basic feature phone user interface built using Adobe Flash Lite.

All the "Apple Copied!!" fans forget why this expensive, clunky LG Prada phone never caught on anywhere, despite having LG's far more established supply chain and other benefits of an incumbent phone vendor. It was a terrible product! 

 

Samsung's proven, well documented copying of the iPhone 3GS and 4 and iPad and iPod touch are all given a free pass as "can't patent round corners!!!" despite the fact that trivial physical similarities are all the iPhone and LG Prada had in common, while Samsung's Galaxy products attempted to clone every last detail of hardware and software down to the headphones, power adapter and the design and form of the packaging.  

post #22 of 62
Quote:
Originally Posted by peter236 View Post

Apple itself is a copycat of the first LG touchscreen phone. Apple does not even have the technology of making flash, ram and touch screens, and therefore had to patent rectangular shapes and outsource manufacturing.

 

Ah yes, the "Apple never invented anything, so let's all copy Apple" defense. Doesn't work.

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post #23 of 62
Originally Posted by Suddenly Newton View Post
Ah yes, the "Apple never invented anything, so let's all copy Apple" defense. Doesn't work.


Particularly since every single thing he said is a complete lie.


EDIT: So. Prove. Me. Wrong. gwmac. 1oyvey.gif


Edited by Tallest Skil - 2/13/13 at 7:19pm
post #24 of 62
Quote:
Originally Posted by nkalu View Post

Samsung is obviously a shameless copycat. They have copied every company you can ever think of by taking advantage of the supplier contracts to copy the industrial designs of those companies.

 

This type of claim has never made any sense.   How can you copy something you haven't seen?   People act like Apple gives its suppliers a copy of its product ahead of time.

 

Samsung doesn't make the case, or the software, or the packaging, or the touchscreen, or any of the other details that have to be seen in person to copy a product's design or look and feel.

 
They only supplied CPUs, memory, sometimes displays, and some ancillary chips, most of which could've just as easily been for a new iPod (like the touch).
post #25 of 62
Quote:
Originally Posted by peter236 View Post

Apple itself is a copycat of the first LG touchscreen phone. Apple does not even have the technology of making flash, ram and touch screens, and therefore had to patent rectangular shapes and outsource manufacturing.

I love people that have never once used an LG Prada and make comments like a parrot.
post #26 of 62
Samsung exec calls Nokia rumor "a loss for innovation".
post #27 of 62
Quote:

Originally Posted by Mechanic View Post

The LG KE850 or the prada was first announced on December 12, 2006.   The design of the phone was shown in september of 2006. Just announced not sold or shown. An image of the device was shown in a press release on January 18th 2007.  Again the device was not shown.  It did not go on sale to the public untill May 2007. LG threatened apple with a lawsuit and quickly dropped it when apple showed them a working prototype of the apple iphone called "Purple" dated august 2005, and another working iphone prototype called "Howarth" dated march 2006.  Those prototypes were also shown in the apple vs. samsung lawsuit.
Infact apple started development of the iphone in 2004 with Jonathan Ive leading a team of 1000 to start to work on project "Purple".  Which later turned out to be the iPhone.

Steve Jobs unveiled the actual finished iPhone on January 9th 2007.  It went on sale on June 29th 2007.  Apple could prove without a shadow of a doubt that the iPhone was in development long before the prada LG KE850.  Hense LG dropping the lawsuit.  As for making flash memory apple makes there own memory controls (why make memory when you can buy it from one of a dozen companies of which samsung is just one) and has several patents for capacitive touch screens and a lot of innovation in that area.  Apple also designs its own processors based on armv7 the current version of which is one of the fastest mobile processors on the market (A6X). The reason the iPhone 5 is so thin is because of one of those capacitive touch screen patents.

The apple copied lg is wrong and a tired old rant.

The lg prada was a very limited touch screen phone and no where near the sensitivity of the iPhones screen and had far less touch sensors than the iphone.

 

 

I really appreciate the depth and authority of this rebuttal.  I usually don't have the patience to do anything more than tell trolls to bite me, but this kind of post makes a far better contribution to the community.  Bravo.
 

post #28 of 62
Quote:
Originally Posted by peter236 View Post

Apple itself is a copycat of the first LG touchscreen phone. Apple does not even have the technology of making flash, ram and touch screens, and therefore had to patent rectangular shapes and outsource manufacturing.

 

Oh Peter, how little you know.

post #29 of 62
Quote:
Originally Posted by iSteelers View Post


That is an argument you will never win. Some people believe that Apple stole the iPad from Star Trek TNG too. There us no reasoning with that mentality.

 

And Apple just stole the Macintosh GUI from Xerox...

post #30 of 62
This is the best AppleInsider article ever! Shameless copycat Samsung...exposed again!

I love how Samsung keeps claiming in public that the Apple lawsuit is hampering innovation. How is copying innovation? I hope Nokia sues as well as I think multiple companies need to expose Samsung for what it is...a bully that copies other people's homework.
post #31 of 62
Translation error?

Anybody know if "innovation" and "imitation" sound similar in Korean?

1wink.gif
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post #32 of 62
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

I hope Samsung's replacement will be as competent as Samsung has been over the years. Love'em or hate'em they have been tops with their semiconductor products.

I've especially liked Samsung's price-fixing activities, and its bribing of government (Korean) oficials.

post #33 of 62
Oh lord... the LG Prada debate...

Yes... LG showed off the Prada before Steve Jobs revealed the iPhone. Good for them.

But I'm a little confused about the timeline when this supposed "copying" took place.

How did Apple (in Cupertino) find out about the LG Prada (in South Korea) ???

Apple claims to have been working on the iPhone since 2004... where exactly would Apple have seen what LG was working on?
post #34 of 62
Quote:
Originally Posted by tylerk36 View Post

Maybe Sammy should start making smart toilets?

 

Apple already has one

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post #35 of 62
Quote:
Originally Posted by peter236 View Post

Apple itself is a copycat of the first LG touchscreen phone. Apple does not even have the technology of making flash, ram and touch screens, and therefore had to patent rectangular shapes and outsource manufacturing.

A MasterChef hasn't 'invented' all his ingredients either, nor does he always grown them himself, yet his recipes are unique!   

post #36 of 62
Quote:
Originally Posted by iSteelers View Post


That is an argument you will never win. Some people believe that Apple stole the iPad from Star Trek TNG too. There us no reasoning with that mentality.

Wrong! Wrong! Wrong! Apple stole the iPhone from Star Trek; they stole the iPad from 2001: A Space Odyssey. Get your fabrications straight.1wink.gif

 

 

</sarcasm>

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post #37 of 62
Quote:
Originally Posted by tylerk36 View Post

Maybe Sammy should start making smart toilets?

 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mocseg View Post

 

Apple already has one

 

Well actually…Japan already has 'em:  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Modern_japanese_toilet.jpg

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post #38 of 62
Quote:
Originally Posted by GTR View Post

Translation error?

Anybody know if "innovation" and "imitation" sound similar in Korean?

1wink.gif

Hilarious!

post #39 of 62
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

I hope Samsung's replacement will be as competent as Samsung has been over the years. Love'em or hate'em they have been tops with their semiconductor products.

Yes and I am sure that has nothing to do with the 100 million investment Apple made in Samsung in the 90's when it was struggling. Dell invested 200 million.
post #40 of 62
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nathillien View Post


Not true, in this instance.

 


True - So:

Did Apple copy LG - NO.

Did LG copy Apple - NO.

Did anyone copy anyone - NO.

---

"Out of Quote"


Fact is that trend in the whole mobile industry round 2005-2007 (even before) was to increase the screen size and to add touch functionality. It's just one step in the evolution of mobile phones.  Some companies and products got there a bit sooner and some a bit later.


Motorola had ROKR E6 (2005)

LG had KE850 Prada (2007)

Apple had iPhone (2007)

Sony Ericsson had P1 (2007) -> Experia X1 (2008)

Samsung had F700 (2007)

HTC had P3600 (2006-2007) -> Touch HD (2008)

Blackberry had Storm 9530 (2008)

HP had iPAQ h6310 (2004-2005) ...

Asus had P535 (2006-2007)

Gigabyte had GSmart i128 (2005-2006)

- yes some of the first touchscreen devices still had more and some less buttons in physical form.


So:

- if you follow this evolution and stretch the display as far as possible (or reducing the bevel as much as possible),

- if you want to use as much of that screen space as possible,

...

 at the end all high-end phones will lookalike and only a fool could claim that one company copied the design from someone else.

In general: claiming that they all look like iPhone is as megalomanic as claiming that our galaxy is the center of the universe. No pun intended.

 

The problem with your argument is not all smartphones do look a like now. Samsung's newer Galaxy phones don't look like an iPhone. Nokia is making interesting non-iPhone looking phones. HTC's phones also have a distinct look. Nokia didn't even believe the iPhone was possible when it was first announced, so it seems like a stretch to say everybody was moving in that direction. Some of the other phones you mention were bricks. The Prada used Adobe Flash as the GUI layer. None of those players had an Operating System capable of driving an iPhone quality phone.

Samsung brought to market phones that looked just like the iPhone right down to the packaging. It was able to do that because it had inside knowledge of Apple's plans. I remember sitting in a Best Buy once by a Samsung phone display. Two people in the five minutes I was there thought the phone was an iPhone. They were right it looked just like one. That was intentional and a jury agreed.
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