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Samsung's Tizen mobile OS could signal new competition for Apple's iOS, Google's Android - Page 2

post #41 of 124

Samsung doesn't have the chops to make it in the software ecosystem.  The only thing they are good at is churning out cheap junk, hope they last just long enough so consumers can get bored and buy the next 5-minute fad from them.

Software services requires constant commitment, a long-term plan, and a good experience to keep people in it.  Samsung has failed miserably in all these areas.  Sure, perhaps one day they will come out with their own app store, but (like Android) no real developer will want to do anything with it since the serious revenue is in iOS.

post #42 of 124
Quote:
Originally Posted by SockRolid View Post

"Melding" software and hardware is just the tip of the iceberg.  You'll need a cross-device ecosystem plus a robust, pervasive, international infrastructure.  You know, like the iOS + OS X ecosystem and the iTunes + iCloud infrastructure.  An ecosystem and infrastructure more or less like the ones Apple started working on before the first iPod was released in 2001.  

 

iTunes came first.  Your infrastructure will also need to come first, otherwise your devices will be attempting to fly in a vacuum.  

Oops.  Good luck with that, Samsung.

++1

 

and depending on Intel as a hardware partner... not such a good idea.  How are those UltraBooks Selling?

 

The key value Apple is playing with is that it starts with a user experience... and then builds the UI, the Apps, the OS, the cloud infrastructure and the HW to meet that user experience.  That's the value of 'melding'   Having a HW 'partner' and a system 'partner' and an 'apps' partner?  Oh, and a TV division and a Chip division and a dumb phone division.... Too many profit centers to keep happy.   

 

iTunes didn't come first... Solving a user problem comes first (iTunes solved... 'how do I get songs on my iPod device without a degree is File Systems Management').   All of a sudden a whole bunch of people saw this something to 'hire' (like I'm hungry, who do I hire to feed me?)  People pay for jobs to be done for them.      What 'job' do you want that device, that app, that component to do?  How do you make that thing hirable for 100 million people looking to spend $YYY to solve that problem?

 

Samsung's devices running Intel chips don't solve 500,000,000 people's problems as far as I can tell.  Android and Google solve the problems.

 

But... the big issue is it's the apps and the ecosystem that are the end game.  Samsung letting gmail and google and youtube, and google play get the eyeballs... in the end, that's where the money is (the cost/profit of the device will go to zero... see Kindle HD).   See Apple's quarterly report.   Their ITMS and AppStore are making more money than most phone makers, passing the iPod business internally, and soon to overtake the Mac HW money flow. 

 

Seriously, this is a play for Google to share more of the ecosystem money, or a bolt by the only player that can likely survive leaving Android, and building its own ecosystem.

post #43 of 124
Quote:
Originally Posted by lkrupp View Post

This could get really interesting. Most iHaters are Fandroids who love Samsung only because it runs Android. They have shifted loyalties as other hardware device makers rose and fell; see Motorola, HTC, etc. Samsung became their most recent shining knight when it rose up to challenge Apple but it's really all about Android. If Samsung forks Android or goes with Tizen what will these people do? Who will they pin their hopes on for Apple's destruction?

Perhaps because you wish for death of Android and Samsung, you imagine Android users must feel the same way about Apple. Some of us wish for most companies to survive if not thrive so that consumer choice exists. Some of us use products from both camps.

Sure, some companies engage in questionable practices from time to time (the list includes Google, Samsung and Apple), but these companies are successful by and large because they are good at what they do. There's nothing wrong with some consumers preferring Android and Galaxy. Take some pills and stop allowing this to affect your enjoyment of Apple products.

Remember what Jobs said - Apple doesn't need others to fail in order to succeed. Have an open mind.
Edited by ankleskater - 2/14/13 at 11:50am
post #44 of 124
Quote:
Originally Posted by Slurpy View Post

I hope to God Samsung does this. It would **** over Android so, so badly. 

Ditto.

 

BTW, if Android is winning, like Schmidt likes to tell everyone who will listen, why aren't the companies that use it making more money off of the ecosystem...and why are they all building (and preparing to launch) not-android lifeboats?

post #45 of 124
I think this will hurt android more than ios. Ios customers will still buy iphones/ipads/ipods running ios. Samsung customers will still buy samsung, but will it be running android or tizen ???

I will take a few years for samsung to get this right with a proper ecosystem in place. I dont think Apple will fear this (it might actually be a bonus for Apple) but Google might.


Gary.
post #46 of 124
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheOtherGeoff View Post

 

Seriously, this is a play for Google to share more of the ecosystem money, or a bolt by the only player that can likely survive leaving Android, and building its own ecosystem.

I hope you can see this is another "analyst" article, but from AI rather than some stock prognosticator. Someone at AI is making a guess that someday Samsung might decide to make Tizen a priority. There's no evidence that Samsung has made any such decision, but it still makes a good "troll for eyeballs" article if nothing else. I personally doubt that Samsung feels it's OS engineering expertise is anywhere near that of Apple, or even Google for that matter.

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post #47 of 124

W

Quote:
Originally Posted by lkrupp View Post

 

This could get really interesting. Most iHaters are Fandroids who love Samsung only because it runs Android. They have shifted loyalties as other hardware device makers rose and fell; see Motorola, HTC, etc. Samsung became their most recent shining knight when it rose up to challenge Apple but it's really all about Android. If Samsung forks Android or goes with Tizen what will these people do? Who will they pin their hopes on for Apple's destruction?

Google wants to destroy Apple?? Where does that claim come from, and based on what?

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post #48 of 124
Wonder how much Intel will continue to back Tizen? Their TV network could be a great source of contents.
post #49 of 124
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gatorguy View Post

W
Google wants to destroy Apple?? Where does that claim come from, and based on what?

It comes from those with zero sum imaginations and is based on their own desire to see Google fail. It's like this - you must hate me because I sure hate you.
post #50 of 124

This is fantastic news! 1smile.gif

 

A stupider move they couldn't make.  This is almost guaranteed to kill sales of Galaxy smartphones when almost nothing else seems to have done the trick.  

 

Samsung is removing themselves from the market by falling on their own sword out of sheer hubris.  

A more fitting finale could not be written to this saga.  

 

Classic. 

post #51 of 124
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gatorguy View Post

W

Google wants to destroy Apple?? Where does that claim come from, and based on what?

 

I think that comes from the "Let's attack Apple on every front and in every market with all the resources at our disposal" plan Google's been playing lately.  

 

Of course it doesn't really matter if they are "out to destroy" per se anyway because Apple and Google would still be in a "fight" no matter who is attacking who and it's pretty clear which one of the combatants is pure evil and which one is not.  So if you see Satan walking down the street, does it really matter if he actually attacks you?  

 

Satan is still satan.  

post #52 of 124

Actually, Samsung merged their Bada effort with Tizen and as a result, Tizen can run all existing Bada apps. Add to that the capability of running Android apps and that implies a potential to launch the OS with a fair few apps available.  Samsung employed around 2000 engineers to work on Bada in its R&D centre in Bangalore.
 

post #53 of 124
Quote:
Originally Posted by macinthe408 View Post

Unless they do something radically different than having a screen filled with app icons in which the user uses their finger to touch the icon to launch the selected app, I do not see this gaining any ground on Android/iOS.
 

 

I don't see it gaining much ground either but I think your reasoning is faulty.  

 

It's a 'grid of icons" because that's what people want.  Take away the silly widgety things and Android is a "grid of icons" also.  

 

This is because all people really want is iOS, or a cheaper clone of iOS (Android).  It was the same when the "desktop wars" were happening.  All people wanted was what was leading (IBM PC's with Windows), or close copies of that (hopefully cheaper).  Every alternative failed despite being more innovative and better designed than the original.  Once the new platform took hold, there just wasn't room for anything new.  Atari, Amiga, OS-2, and Mac OS were all valiant efforts but they never gained much momentum or market share at all.  Mac OS had the gall to hang around long enough to outlast the desktop PC with Windows market, due mostly to the tenacity of Steve Jobs.  

 

Tizen will only succeed to the degree that it can closely copy iOS.  If it can copy it closer than Android (and actualy get away with it), it will eventually beat out Android.  If they try to make it "different" it will fail like all the rest.  

post #54 of 124
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogifan View Post

Apps in a grid pattern how original.

And was it original when Apple did it?
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post #55 of 124
Quote:
Originally Posted by dasanman69 View Post

And was it original when Apple did it?

Yes. Rectangles didn't exist before Apple.
post #56 of 124
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gazoobee View Post

I think that comes from the "Let's attack Apple on every front and in every market with all the resources at our disposal" plan Google's been playing lately.  

Of course it doesn't really matter if they are "out to destroy" per se anyway because Apple and Google would still be in a "fight" no matter who is attacking who and it's pretty clear which one of the combatants is pure evil and which one is not.  So if you see Satan walking down the street, does it really matter if he actually attacks you?  

Satan is still satan.  

I hope you don't sincerely believe this. Google certainly doesn't because they're not idiots. Why would they kill their mobile golden goose?

If Google really wants to attack Apple at all costs, why do they go to such efforts developing rather decent iOS apps that are sometimes better than the same apps on Android?

Fess up - you're not truly idiotic but are just being facetious, right?

Satan indeed. You are such a droll troll.
post #57 of 124
Quote:
Originally Posted by stelligent View Post

 

 

Don't quit your day jobs to become stand-up comics, guys.

 

 

Stellar intelligent comment stelligent...

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post #58 of 124
Quote:
Originally Posted by ankleskater View Post

It comes from those with zero sum imaginations and is based on their own desire to see Google fail. It's like this - you must hate me because I sure hate you.

Because they need someone to point their f'kng finger to and say "That's the bad guy"
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post #59 of 124
Quote:
Originally Posted by ankleskater View Post

Yes. Rectangles didn't exist before Apple.

And neither did icons I guess.
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post #60 of 124
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gazoobee View Post

 

I think that comes from the "Let's attack Apple on every front and in every market with all the resources at our disposal" plan Google's been playing lately.  

 

Of course it doesn't really matter if they are "out to destroy" per se anyway because Apple and Google would still be in a "fight" no matter who is attacking who and it's pretty clear which one of the combatants is pure evil and which one is not.  So if you see Satan walking down the street, does it really matter if he actually attacks you?  

 

Satan is still satan.  

You really think Google is attacking Apple? I've never seen any mainstream article anywhere that claims Google showing any ill-will towards Apple. Ever. The Chrome browser, ChromeOS, Android, Google Docs, GMail were all targeting Microsoft and their services, not Apple. Google social products are intended to blunt Facebook, not Apple. Google was never out to start a dispute with them IMO.

 

Believe it or not everything isn't about Apple all the time. Any ill-will is floating towards Google, not out.

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post #61 of 124
Every phone operating system is now dependent on google in some way. Google maps. YouTube. Google calendar. Google search. No phone system can be successful without them. Samsung like Apple can reduce its dependence on Google but not eliminate it.

(on the other hand tangentially no system is
Dependent on Microsoft. Running office on your gizmo does not seem to matter to ppl)
post #62 of 124
Quote:
Originally Posted by dasanman69 View Post

And neither did icons I guess.

They are called iCons, no?
post #63 of 124
Quote:
Originally Posted by anantksundaram View Post

Given the quality of Samsung's TV -- a business they've been in for a very long time -- 'software' which is clunky, unintuitive, and slow, Ive is unlikely to be losing much sleep over this.

Maybe because software for a TV isn't all that important. It's going to get used a whole lot less than one on a handheld device.
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post #64 of 124
I mean, independent of the OS' functionality - why - WHY - do the graphics (icons, fonts, background) always have to looks so... so... Aaarrrrgh?!
Be it windows, android, tizen whatever. The only really aestetically pleasing well crafted images always come from the fruit company.
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post #65 of 124
Quote:
Originally Posted by mjtomlin View Post

For the doubters, Tizen can take off just as fast as Android did. Most of these people have NO loyalty to an operating system. They just want a phone that works. If sales people start pushing Tizen, then it will sell. Samsung spends tons of money for sales commissions, how do you think their devices sell in the first place? There's nothing special about them over any other Android phone.

Yeah but try telling that to a developer. If I were a small time developer, I would not want have to develop for five different operating systems, and have to purchase dozens of phones/tablets just to make sure the software was compatible. It would drive the price of the software up considerably, not to mention the headache I would have to take on.

post #66 of 124
Quote:
Originally Posted by dasanman69 View Post

Because they need someone to point their f'kng finger to and say "That's the bad guy"

One shouldn't f&uck and point with the same finger.
post #67 of 124
Quote:
Originally Posted by Feynman View Post

Yeah but try telling that to a developer. If I were a small time developer, I would not want have to develop for five different operating systems, and have to purchase dozens of phones/tablets just to make sure the software was compatible. It would drive the price of the software up considerably, not to mention the headache I would have to take on.

Valid point. Even large developers wouldn't go this.
post #68 of 124
Quote:
Originally Posted by 512ke View Post

Every phone operating system is now dependent on google in some way. Google maps. YouTube. Google calendar. Google search. No phone system can be successful without them. Samsung like Apple can reduce its dependence on Google but not eliminate it.

(on the other hand tangentially no system is
Dependent on Microsoft. Running office on your gizmo does not seem to matter to ppl)

If no one is dependent on MS, why are they collecting such handsome licensing fees?
post #69 of 124
Quote:
Originally Posted by KDarling View Post

...Remember when Microsoft tried something different... a honeycomb grid in Windows Mobile 6.5?  *shudder*   It was hard to look at it, even though it gave more finger-tap space.  I think it taught everyone to avoid unusual layouts :)

 

 

On the other hand, bees loved it.

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post #70 of 124
Quote:
Together, iOS and Android account for more than nine out of ten smartphone shipments, according to the most recent market research figures.

The only company which gives out actual sales numbers is Apple -- every other vendor quotes numbers for devices shipped. Shipped does not mean sold. Every analist on the planet is only guessing at the numbers on non-iOS devices in people's hands/pockets.

 

The other thing is that Android and iOS are well embedded into people's lives -- every other mobile-OS is playing catch-up. Android is very much a copy of iOS and because the devices are cheap or free, they have gained a foothold in this sector -- ask people to choose between iDevice & Android and pay the full price, most would choose the quality and OS of iPhone/iPad over Android.

 

There are already too many different mobile-OSes and a new one is unlikely to make a dent, especially if Samsung continues to make Android devices -- cannibalising its own Tizer OS.

post #71 of 124
Quote:
Originally Posted by ankleskater View Post

One shouldn't f&uck and point with the same finger.

Could be they only have one finger.
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post #72 of 124
Quote:
Originally Posted by dasanman69 View Post

Could be they only have one finger.

Oh, I could so work with that but am too classy.
post #73 of 124
Quote:
Originally Posted by ankleskater View Post

Oh, I could so work with that but am too classy.

Have at it.
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post #74 of 124
Quote:
Originally Posted by sip View Post

The only company which gives out actual sales numbers is Apple -- every other vendor quotes numbers for devices shipped. Shipped does not mean sold. Every analist on the planet is only guessing at the numbers on non-iOS devices in people's hands/pockets.

 

The other thing is that Android and iOS are well embedded into people's lives -- every other mobile-OS is playing catch-up. Android is very much a copy of iOS and because the devices are cheap or free, they have gained a foothold in this sector -- ask people to choose between iDevice & Android and pay the full price, most would choose the quality and OS of iPhone/iPad over Android.

 

There are already too many different mobile-OSes and a new one is unlikely to make a dent, especially if Samsung continues to make Android devices -- cannibalising its own Tizer OS.

Gartner has mobile phone sale numbers here:

http://www.gartner.com/newsroom/id/2335616

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post #75 of 124
Quote:
Originally Posted by WonkoTheSane View Post

I mean, independent of the OS' functionality - why - WHY - do the graphics (icons, fonts, background) always have to looks so... so... Aaarrrrgh?!
Be it windows, android, tizen whatever. The only really aestetically pleasing well crafted images always come from the fruit company.

Interesting that you seem to fail to grasp the bias in your comment.
post #76 of 124
Quote:
Originally Posted by ankleskater View Post

Interesting that you seem to fail to grasp the bias in your comment.

Bias? I really came down to realizing that one of the reasons I prefer Mac/iOS is for the design of icons and the overall GUI. Exceptions granted such as calendar, contacts, passbook shredder and quite some inconsistencies. However, until now I have never come across another GUI where I felt "this looks great".
And I put functionality aside because I have not tried tizen. Or even android.
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post #77 of 124
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogifan View Post

So what would make someone want to use Tizen over Android?  What's the advantage?

Not having all of your personal information sent to Google.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gatorguy View Post

As long as Google is the default search engine I'm not sure it would matter all that much financially. Difficult to say.

Except for one thing. Android is already suffering with developers due to the fact that they make no where near as much money on Android as on iOS. If Android loses some of its share, it weakens the argument for using Android even further.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gazoobee View Post

This is fantastic news! 1smile.gif

A stupider move they couldn't make.  This is almost guaranteed to kill sales of Galaxy smartphones when almost nothing else seems to have done the trick.  

Samsung is removing themselves from the market by falling on their own sword out of sheer hubris.  
A more fitting finale could not be written to this saga.  

Classic. 

You're assuming that Tizen will replace Android. Rather, I expect that the Galaxy phones will continue to run Android and Tizen will be entry-level and/or low end phones. I could see how the ability to offer an extra choice might help.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gatorguy View Post

You really think Google is attacking Apple? I've never seen any mainstream article anywhere that claims Google showing any ill-will towards Apple. Ever. The Chrome browser, ChromeOS, Android, Google Docs, GMail were all targeting Microsoft and their services, not Apple. Google social products are intended to blunt Facebook, not Apple. Google was never out to start a dispute with them IMO.

That is, like most of your posts, pure, unadulterated, Google shill garbage.

Android. Say it again. Android. Android was clearly targeted at Apple, not Microsoft.

Quote:
Originally Posted by geekdad View Post

Gartner has mobile phone sale numbers here:
http://www.gartner.com/newsroom/id/2335616

No, they don't. They have their own ESTIMATES of sales figures. The only time they've been validated was in the Apple trial when it appeared that the estimated numbers for Samsung were far too high.
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post #78 of 124

If Samsung introduces Tizen at next year's CES, I'm sure it will receive the same thunderous welcome WebOS got. 1bugeye.gif

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post #79 of 124
More market fragmentation... That's always good for my Apple stock.
post #80 of 124
Quote:
Originally Posted by sip View Post

The only company which gives out actual sales numbers is Apple -- every other vendor quotes numbers for devices shipped. Shipped does not mean sold.

 

Depends on the context.

 

When companies report number "shipped" in a quarter, they mean "sold" (to end users or retailers).  In that context, the words are interchangeable.

 

Apple, for instance, uses the word "sold" to include units in user or retailer hands, along with units that have been paid for but are still in the process of being shipped to retailers.

 

Samsung reports no quarterly shipped numbers any more at all, but during the short time period that they did, they meant units sold and delivered to retailers. 

 

In both cases, the companies are officially reporting units that gave revenue (i.e. they were sold).   In both cases, returns are accounted for separately.

 

Press releases are a different context.  They might quote presales or orders or a lot of different things.

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