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Samsung's Tizen mobile OS could signal new competition for Apple's iOS, Google's Android - Page 3

post #81 of 124

If "Galaxy" has more worldwide brand recognition than "Android" (which I seem to recall reading) then this would make a clever option for Samsung to keep up their sleeve.

post #82 of 124
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by stelligent View Post

Don't quit your day jobs to become stand-up comics, guys.

You ever think about stand-up comedy works?

A comedian will a write a series or jokes or anecdotes then practice them on his own or perhaps in front of friends and family. This is alpha testing and isn't too reliable for several reasons I won't get into but it can help weed out ones that may be too confusing for a general audience to get.

The next step is beta testing the material. This is done with a time window. You not only test your material but your execution which includes timing and delivery. You then review your performance either from the 1st person PoV, audio or video. You see what jokes works and why and what jokes didn't work and why.

You then repeat this beta test many times swapping the material, changing the order, altering when and how the material is delivered. This is a slow and arduous process to 1) perfect your personality as a comedian, and 2) get the right material and deliver it in the right way for a more major event, like a special on Comedy Center or selling out of a theater.

It's not easy and every comedian has failed experiences so I don't get why anyone trying to be entertaining need to be haggled, especially here where you paid no cover and had no minimum drink order to attend.


PS: Comedy is inherently difficult. If the a joke is too obvious it's not funny except perhaps to children or other immature individuals, which is why adults tend not to like jokes kids think are hysterical. If it's too specialized, like a joke that would require a knowledge of astrophysics, then it's not funny because it's not understood, which is why kids tend to get jokes adults think are hysterical.

It's not just about appealing to a specific audience but about the culture it's delivered in. Musicians can travel all around the world and perform to sold out shows but comedians have a much harder time as language and culture can be difficult barrier. Along with the cultural issue is the age of the joke. A joke about Kony that Jon Stewart, Stephen Colbert or Bill Maher made a year ago may have been laugh-out-loud funny then but not today. Are you really that much different of a person or does media-based humour simply have a short lifespan?

Finally, there are jokes that not related to the news but have still expired. Ever see an old man make a joke that you are certain he heard on The Ed Sullivan Show or something like that? You recognize it as a joke as it has the constituent components and you can see how 50 years ago it may have been clever and funny, but today it's simply not. That's the sad reality of comedy. I've tried to sit through the best comedians from the 80's or 90's. It can be rough.


PPS: Comedy Central's The Burn with Jeff Ross is excellent.

 

How come you know so much about comedy -- and so little about computers?

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post #83 of 124

So, let's see...

 

That will leave Apple, Samzen, Googdroid,  MSokia...

 

Don't Sloth and Lust fit in there somewhere... Anywhere... Please?

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post #84 of 124
Quote:
Originally Posted by monstrosity View Post

I do not see this Tizen capable of succeeding. In fact, I will go on record to predict that Samsung has reached the pinnacle of it's success in terms of market share.
I don't think Apple will eat too much of it's lunch (though I'm expecting some). Samsung is on the top of the junk heap, and I expect other junk to eat into it's share.

 

I think the REAL achilles heal here is that now Samsung has had some success and they've mistaken themselves as an innovator -- Microsoft made the same error. After they got on top and wanted to lead instead of clone, the internal conflicts became more of a hindrance and innovation was stifled.

I do however wonder if the "webkit" basis means that they are going for a native HTML 5 development environment for apps -- should make it a lot easier if they concentrate on accelerating these functions.
But I'll go back to my first assumption; Samsung has always been a mass producer of other people's innovations. And as soon as they start drinking their own Kool Aide and think they got there on innovation -- that's when it's time to short the stock. That announcement from Nokia that they won't be using their competitors fab anymore has also got to hurt. Samsung will be losing their cash cow while they endeavor to placate their ego. Funny that they'd be leaving Google's platform because "they are a competitor" -- a sure sign that Samsung should have split into two companies so their manufacturing giant wouldn't suffer.

Looks alot like Sony's growing pains as well.
post #85 of 124
I see plenty of Andriod lovers spreading Apple hate because the want them to fail. What other reason would an Andriod lover be on an Apple fan site anyway? I can tell you as an Apple fan I wouldn't be caught dead on an Andriod fan site. I'm not a fan.
post #86 of 124
Quote:
Originally Posted by allenbf View Post

If Sammy has to use Tizen at some point and quit Android due to Goog/Moto...well, I'd be nervous if I were an investor. This will put Sammy virtually in a future tie with MSFT, BB and other bottom feeders. Because if I'm looking at this from just an average consumer's POV, if I'm pretty used to Android, I'm not likely to go to a Tizen phone, I'll just find another Android handset maker.

 

To put it bluntly, I can buy another cheap plastic phone from any handset maker, most people aren't buying Samsung for the build quality, they're buying because of Android/Advertising/Who knows.

 

No links, but others have posted that it's the Sammy Marketing Payouts to carriers and carrier salesmen (SPIFFS?)...

 

If Sammy drops Android -- Android is GooMed™

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post #87 of 124
Quote:
Originally Posted by BoxMacCary View Post

This is BEYOND ridiculous ....
It's iOS & Android (yeccchhh) and THAT'S IT!!!

NOBODY'S interested in Windows8 Mobile.
NOBODY'S interested in Tinzu.
NOBODY'S interested in Linux Mobile.

These are all just supermegadesperate flailings by Apple's "competitors" while they helplessly watch
as Apple walks away with the future of computing -- MOBILE.

Everybody's fighting against iFon & iPad, but they have ZERO idea of what Apple has it's sleeve to leave even those behind ....

 

 

It's kinda' iFun -- isn't it?

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post #88 of 124
Quote:
Originally Posted by WonkoTheSane View Post

Bias? I really came down to realizing that one of the reasons I prefer Mac/iOS is for the design of icons and the overall GUI. Exceptions granted such as calendar, contacts, passbook shredder and quite some inconsistencies. However, until now I have never come across another GUI where I felt "this looks great".
And I put functionality aside because I have not tried tizen. Or even android.

Do really think Apple's GUI looks great? It looks functional but not great.
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post #89 of 124
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

 

Plastic screen, how… high quality.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA............

post #90 of 124
Quote:
Originally Posted by dasanman69 View Post


Do really think Apple's GUI looks great? It looks functional but not great.

Functional is what it's all about.  The icons have a more 3D look to them rather than the pathetic 2D look that Android and windows apps now have.  They are doing 2D because their OS would be too sluggish if it had a 3D look to them.

post #91 of 124
Quote:
Originally Posted by drblank View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by dasanman69 View Post


Do really think Apple's GUI looks great? It looks functional but not great.

Functional is what it's all about.  The icons have a more 3D look to them rather than the pathetic 2D look that Android and windows apps now have.  They are doing 2D because their OS would be too sluggish if it had a 3D look to them.

 

I don't know about other platforms... but the iOS icons are ratster graphics (.png images) -- they may look 3D but there is no additional processing required.

 

In fact, icons on Windows 8 could be vector graphics -- and could be processed more efficiently than raster graphics (define the 4 corners of a rectangle and a fill color -- as opposed to a raster image containing all the bits).

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post #92 of 124
Quote:
Originally Posted by nagromme View Post

If "Galaxy" has more worldwide brand recognition than "Android" (which I seem to recall reading) then this would make a clever option for Samsung to keep up their sleeve.

 

I agree...  it appears that Sammy has laid the Tizen card on the table... face down!

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post #93 of 124
Quote:
Originally Posted by genovelle View Post

I see plenty of Andriod lovers spreading Apple hate because the want them to fail. What other reason would an Andriod lover be on an Apple fan site anyway? I can tell you as an Apple fan I wouldn't be caught dead on an Andriod fan site. I'm not a fan.

They don't get enough Apple fans trolling on Android sites, so they come here to pick fights.

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post #94 of 124
Tizen is just a bargaining chip that Samsung will use to force Google to lower Android licensing fees. Oh wait...

"Apple should pull the plug on the iPhone."

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post #95 of 124
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post

How come you know so much about comedy -- and so little about computers?

That cuts deep. If I had a feeling it would have been hurt. 1smoking.gif

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post #96 of 124
Quote:
Originally Posted by Suddenly Newton View Post

Tizen is just a bargaining chip that Samsung will use to force Google to lower Android licensing fees. Oh wait...

I looked up the word "backstabber" in the dictionary and it had a Samsung logo by it.

post #97 of 124
Quote:
Originally Posted by drblank View Post

Functional is what it's all about.  The icons have a more 3D look to them rather than the pathetic 2D look that Android and windows apps now have.  They are doing 2D because their OS would be too sluggish if it had a 3D look to them.


If you keep saying things that can't possibly be true, you are only compromising your own credibility.

post #98 of 124
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post


That cuts deep. If I had a feeling it would have been hurt. 1smoking.gif


He's simply using you for alpha testing.

post #99 of 124
Quote:
Originally Posted by dasanman69 View Post


Could be they only have one finger.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by ankleskater View Post


Oh, I could so work with that but am too classy.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by dasanman69 View Post


Have at it.


Stay classy, people.

post #100 of 124
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post

...Samsung's move toward Tizen is more a move toward achieving parity. As Apple...success in the new generation of computing is due to its decades of experience handling all aspects of the machines it produces. "If you look at skills," Cook said, "Apple is in a unique and unrivaled position. Apple has skills in software, in hardware, and in services."

Samsung...representatives are saying...now that true quality in the mobile experience comes from a melding of software and hardware...

 

Is this what people mean when they say Apple likes to control the whole ecosystem?  LOL /s

post #101 of 124
Quote:
Originally Posted by malax View Post

Samsung is 100% dependent on Android

What's this then?

 

http://www.samsung.com/global/ativ/ativ_s.html

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post #102 of 124
Quote:
Originally Posted by anonymouse View Post

 

Actually, the Android "ecosystem" doesn't matter very much for most Android users, and there are no strong ties. Carriers would happily push Tizen phones on consumers who don't know what they are buying, just like they push Android now: it would just be, "and here's the latest phone from Samsung, the Galaxy S V," and there wouldn't even be a mention of the OS, except to say, "It's got the latest and greatest OS on it, and it comes with all the apps you will ever need."

some things people insist on can't be faked. like a good Maps app. or Exchange compatibility. or Facebook and the other heavies' apps. and so on.

 

this is RIM's huge problem right now, and it's killing them.

post #103 of 124
Quote:
Originally Posted by KDarling View Post

When companies report number "shipped" in a quarter, they mean "sold" (to end users or retailers).  In that context, the words are interchangeable.

 

No! wrong.

 

most of those shipments to retailers, telcos, etc. are not "final" sales until a real consumer/business buys the product. the terms of the contracts will vary widely, but how much is paid and when, with what discounts depending, and what can and can't be returned if unsold or returned by a consumer after how much time - all these details are crucial. (plus who pays for what ads, and any perks.)

 

because there are no standard accounting rules for this - several alternatives instead - we really can't figure out the truth about "final" sales. and few companies will say.

post #104 of 124
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post

How come you know so much about comedy -- and so little about computers?

That cuts deep. If I had a feeling it would have been hurt. 1smoking.gif

I knew you'd appreciate the implied /s

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post #105 of 124
Quote:
Originally Posted by SockRolid View Post


Samsung has two choices: 1. fork Android and create their own proprietary, closed, tuned version of it for their own hardware, or 2. dump Android in favor of Tizen, which they can also tune for their own hardware.  This goes back to the "melding" of software and hardware.  Something that Google either doesn't know about or doesn't care about.  Meanwhile, Samsung could keep their UI more or less the same as it is now, while switching the OS out from under it to Tizen.

 

The process of switching to Tizen will be made easier by the fact that Tizen can run Android-developed apps.  That could work well in the interim, kind of like how emulators like Rosetta worked for Apple during the Intel processor transitions.  After that, the Android apps would be replaced with native Tizen apps for performance and to take advantage of Tizen's more advanced features.

BUT if Oracle prevails on its copyright claims (as I think it could) then where does that leave samsung with Tizens ann droid bastard-java emulator.

post #106 of 124
Originally Posted by habi View Post
BUT if Oracle prevails on its copyright claims (as I think it could) then where does that leave samsung with Tizens ann droid bastard-java emulator.

 

I thought that was settled and Oracle lost… Maybe that was a different suit.

post #107 of 124
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

 

I thought that was settled and Oracle lost… Maybe that was a different suit.


No that was the first fight. Just like Apple Oracle lost on some meritts that are going to be appealed (which its being done now), maybe to the highest instance possible until possibilities have run out or Oracle prevails. Usually lower courts are often "reluctant" to make big hard decisions (things that are new and unprecedented, its always easier to bang out and just force the litigants to appeal if the issues are hard) and the litigants have to argue the hard questions in higher courts on appeal.

 

Its not over until the fat lady sings.

 

http://www.fosspatents.com/2013/02/oracles-appeal-brief-likens-google-to.html

post #108 of 124
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alfiejr View Post

No! wrong.

most of those shipments to retailers, telcos, etc. are not "final" sales until a real consumer/business buys the product. the terms of the contracts will vary widely, but how much is paid and when, with what discounts depending, and what can and can't be returned if unsold or returned by a consumer after how much time - all these details are crucial. (plus who pays for what ads, and any perks.)

because there are no standard accounting rules for this - several alternatives instead - we really can't figure out the truth about "final" sales. and few companies will say.

No, KDarling is right. Items that are shipped eventually get sold - even if it's at a discount price. Even the HP Touchpad's shipment numbers eventually turned into sales.

No one is going to continue to ship millions more units than they sell and no retailer is going to allow their warehouses to fill up with millions of unsold phones - and then continue to accept more. I really don't think that the 'shipped' vs 'sold' numbers are that far out of balance. There may be a delay of a month or two (depending on how the company accounts for sales), but it's not going to be dramatically different.

The problem is that most companies don't release shipped numbers, either. Almost all of the reported numbers that you see are estimates from some marketing firm.
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post #109 of 124
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gatorguy View Post

Google HAS competition. It's Microsoft. That's the reason Google made Android (and Chrome) a priority in the first place. So far Google's holding their own I think.

 

Really? That's not the reason Google stated publicly. But maybe you have some inside information and know that they were lying about that?

 

In fact, this is what Google said about why they released Android:

 

Quote:
More than 25 years after Apple compared IBM to a totalitarian state in an iconic TV advertisement, Google at this week's I/O conference attempted to suggest Apple is now playing the role of Big Brother with the iPhone.

Vic Gundotra, vice president of engineering for Google, made the comments during his presentation demonstrating "Froyo," the latest update to the company's Google mobile operating system. He suggested that Google's entrance into the mobile phone market was a move meant to directly oppose the likes of Apple and its tightly controlled iPhone platform.

"If Google did not act, we faced a Draconian future where one man, one company, one device, one carrier would be our only choice," Gundotra said. "That's a future we don't want."
 

 

Completely at odds with your revisionist version of history, which you and Google would now like us to believe. Android was not only copied directly from iOS, but it was, in their own words, stolen so that Google could maintain control of people's access to information, so that Apple couldn't cut them out of the loop. Ironic that those fears have become a self-fulfilling prophecy.


Edited by anonymouse - 2/15/13 at 8:12am
post #110 of 124
Quote:
Originally Posted by ankleskater View Post


... If Google really wants to attack Apple at all costs, why do they go to such efforts developing rather decent iOS apps that are sometimes better than the same apps on Android? ...

 

Because, more than anything, they want to control people's access to information, to be the gatekeeper. Android is one way to do that, but they'll do whatever it takes. Android isn't the goal, it's just a means to an end.

post #111 of 124
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gatorguy View Post

You really think Google is attacking Apple? I've never seen any mainstream article anywhere that claims Google showing any ill-will towards Apple. Ever. The Chrome browser, ChromeOS, Android, Google Docs, GMail were all targeting Microsoft and their services, not Apple. Google social products are intended to blunt Facebook, not Apple. Google was never out to start a dispute with them IMO.

 

Believe it or not everything isn't about Apple all the time. Any ill-will is floating towards Google, not out.

 

More rewriting of history, already refuted above. You seem a little desperate in response to this article.

post #112 of 124
Quote:
Originally Posted by Feynman View Post

Yeah but try telling that to a developer. If I were a small time developer, I would not want have to develop for five different operating systems, and have to purchase dozens of phones/tablets just to make sure the software was compatible. It would drive the price of the software up considerably, not to mention the headache I would have to take on.

 

The flaw in this line of reasoning is that Samsung's potential customers aren't that big a potential market for apps anyway. Most of them will just take what comes on the phone and be fine with it. it really doesn't matter that much as a factor in this possibility 

post #113 of 124
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alfiejr View Post

some things people insist on can't be faked. like a good Maps app. or Exchange compatibility. or Facebook and the other heavies' apps. and so on.

 

this is RIM's huge problem right now, and it's killing them.

 

That's because Blackberry, nee RIM, is still stuck in their old ways. None of this will be a serious obstacle.

post #114 of 124
Android is not going away from Samsung. This Tizen is just an experiment. If it ends up looking mysteriously like iOS 7 or 8, it's their way out of lawsuits by claiming they were working on this long before and it's just the natural evolution of all phone OSs.
post #115 of 124

One history is certain: Intel and Linux is an embarrassment of execution. Always a custom kernel, always a disaster going back to the late 90s on dozens of failed projects.

post #116 of 124
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alfiejr View Post

No! wrong.

most of those shipments to retailers, telcos, etc. are not "final" sales until a real consumer/business buys the product. the terms of the contracts will vary widely, but how much is paid and when, with what discounts depending, and what can and can't be returned if unsold or returned by a consumer after how much time - all these details are crucial. (plus who pays for what ads, and any perks.)

because there are no standard accounting rules for this - several alternatives instead - we really can't figure out the truth about "final" sales. and few companies will say.

But don't all those units eventually reach the hands of the consumer? Just give them time.

Otherwise we'd hear if millions of unsold phones get sent back to the OEM.

Who knows... there might be a ton of misfit Android phones buried in the New Mexico desert next to the remains of all those E.T Atari cartridges...

http://www.snopes.com/business/market/atari.asp
post #117 of 124
Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Scrip View Post


But don't all those units eventually reach the hands of the consumer? Just give them time.

Otherwise we'd hear if millions of unsold phones get sent back to the OEM. ...

 

They don't typically issue a press release for that.

post #118 of 124
Quote:
Originally Posted by anonymouse View Post

They don't typically issue a press release for that.

True... but since analysts estimate how many units are sent out... can't they also estimate how many come back?

Just have someone at Samsung's loading dock seeing pallets of phones coming in

1biggrin.gif
post #119 of 124
Quote:
Originally Posted by anonymouse View Post

They don't typically issue a press release for that.

No. But they'd have to write down the inventory just as Rim and HP did. No such write downs have been announced or reported.
post #120 of 124
Quote:
Originally Posted by dasanman69 View Post

Do really think Apple's GUI looks great? It looks functional but not great.

Yes, most of them do iMO. At least, I never get the impression like some kids without feel for or edification in design has tried.:-)
Yeah, well, you know, that's just, like, my opinion, man.
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