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HTC One features 4.7" 1080p display, quad-core CPU, Android 4.1.2 with Sense 5 UI - Page 3

post #81 of 221
Originally Posted by Mazda 3s View Post
At what point does the increased ppi not become "overkill"?

 

It becomes overkill when you literally cannot see a difference. That's why televisions, for example, above SHV shouldn't ever be made; there's no point; humans can't see beyond that.

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post #82 of 221
Quote:
Originally Posted by macxpress View Post

 

Judging on Apple's last quarter sales, they aren't losing much. Apple can't be everything to everyone and the day it starts trying to be is the day it begins its slow death. 

 

So... Apple is happy to see 200 million plus sales a year go to its competitors...

 

Thank you for the most stupid answer of the day.

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post #83 of 221
Originally Posted by island hermit View Post
So... Apple is happy to see 200 million plus sales a year go to its competitors...

 

Well, they literally can't make their devices faster. So they have to be at least content to see some go.

Originally Posted by Marvin

The only thing more insecure than Android’s OS is its userbase.
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Originally Posted by Marvin

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post #84 of 221
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta View Post


No one ever said Apple doesn't want more sales.

It's just that Apple's smart enough to realize that if you have to sacrifice your brand in order to increase sales, it may be a losing proposition. Apple makes 'insanely great' products and is not going to abandon that in order to sell a few more phones. They don't expect 100% market share.

As for this particular phone? It looks fine and the specs are certainly good. We'll just have to wait to see how it actually works and how the build quality is. There are already examples of the A6 outperforming quad core CPUs, so there's more to performance than the number of cores. In fact, it wouldn't surprise me if the 2 GB of RAM helps performance more than the extra cores. It's likely to eat power like crazy, though. I hope they put a big battery in it.

 

Why does building a bigger phone sacrifice Apple's brand? I'm sure Ive could design a larger phone that would blow any HTC or Samsung design out of the water.

 

Even if Apple garnered an extra 10 million sales a quarter with a larger phone it would be worth it. All it would take is for 6% of Apple's customers to shift to Android because they want a larger phone and 6% of Android's customers to shift to Apple because they want iOS but in a bigger format. Personally I think the shift from Android would be more like 10-12% for a larger iOS phone.

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post #85 of 221
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mazda 3s View Post

And when Apple releases a higher rez screen than 1136x640 (you don't actually think that Apple is going to stick with ONLY this resolution for the foreseeable future, do you), then what? All of a sudden a higher resolution screen is OK?

I guess my point is, if 1080p is overkill, then what do you suggest the resolution of this 4.7" smartphone should be?

Not resolution. What's overkill is 450+ PPI for a screen display.

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post #86 of 221
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

 

Well, they literally can't make their devices faster. So they have to be at least content to see some go.

 

Funny, I gave the same answer to you a while back and you had exactly the opposite reply... something to the effect that Apple can always increase its quantity numbers.

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post #87 of 221
Originally Posted by island hermit View Post
Funny, I gave the same answer to you a while back and you had exactly the opposite reply... something to the effect that Apple can always increase its quantity numbers.

 

That was stupid. It takes forever to build new factories and get them going. 1tongue.gif

Originally Posted by Marvin

The only thing more insecure than Android’s OS is its userbase.
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Originally Posted by Marvin

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post #88 of 221
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

 

Thanks for pretending I cared or said anything at all either way about how it looks. 

 

Of course it matters that it looks good. We already know that Android works suitably enough for well over 200 million people to buy an Android phone every year and if it actually looks good then it just gives people even more reason to buy one.

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post #89 of 221
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

 

That was stupid. It takes forever to build new factories and get them going. 1tongue.gif

 

I seem to remember given you that reply as well. 1smile.gif

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post #90 of 221
Originally Posted by island hermit View Post
Of course it matters that it looks good.

Thanks for pretending that in THAT post I said anything about the effect of appearance, specifically on purchases… 1confused.gif

 

This is fun. I don't even have to HAVE another side of whatever argument this is, since you're apparently just making it up for me.

Originally Posted by Marvin

The only thing more insecure than Android’s OS is its userbase.
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Originally Posted by Marvin

The only thing more insecure than Android’s OS is its userbase.
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post #91 of 221
Quote:
Originally Posted by island hermit View Post

Why does building a bigger phone sacrifice Apple's brand? I'm sure Ive could design a larger phone that would blow any HTC or Samsung design out of the water.

Even if Apple garnered an extra 10 million sales a quarter with a larger phone it would be worth it. All it would take is for 6% of Apple's customers to shift to Android because they want a larger phone and 6% of Android's customers to shift to Apple because they want iOS but in a bigger format. Personally I think the shift from Android would be more like 10-12% for a larger iOS phone.

Well, let's play a game.

Who knows more about Apple's business and design of systems? Apple (including Ive) or you?

How many guesses do you need?
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post #92 of 221
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta View Post


Well, let's play a game.

Who knows more about Apple's business and design of systems? Apple (including Ive) or you?

How many guesses do you need?

 

 

I can play that game...

 

Who knows more about Apple's business and design of systems? Apple (including Ive) or you?

 

So... if Apple brings out a larger phone then let's go back to this conversation.

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post #93 of 221
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

 

It becomes overkill when you literally cannot see a difference. That's why televisions, for example, above SHV shouldn't ever be made; there's no point; humans can't see beyond that.

 

But you have to realize, 4.7" and 720p looks pretty crappy to me. I've seen those large screen Android phones and I can make out the pixels pretty clear as day (like the Galaxy S III) -- something that I can't do with my iPhone 5. For Android phones with large screen sizes, 1080p is the next logical step.


Going with something in between those two resolutions doesn't make sense.

post #94 of 221
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

Thanks for pretending that in THAT post I said anything about the effect of appearance, specifically on purchases… 1confused.gif

 

This is fun. I don't even have to HAVE another side of whatever argument this is, since you're apparently just making it up for me.

 

No, what you asked was how does this phone up the ante.

 

I think it's fairly obvious that it ups the ante of larger phones by appearance alone and I was saying that I didn't expect you to give them credit for that.

 

Hell, as mentioned previously, we already know that hundreds of millions of people are satisfied enough with the Android phone OS that they continue to increase sales every year.

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post #95 of 221
Quote:
Originally Posted by macxpress View Post

Well la-te-da...You found 2 great apps for Android. Yay! Nobody has to use iTunes anymore. iPhones aren't tied to iTunes. 

He is factually correct but not correct in spirit.

There are apps for iPhone which emulate the functionality of File Expert and AirDroid.

iTunes is the most popular media store and media management application in the world. Say what you will but the vox populi is clear.
post #96 of 221
Quote:
Originally Posted by hill60 View Post

More cores CAN result in better power efficiency, if you mix low and high power cores and switch the high power ones off when not required.

Even if it's the same core, there can be advantages since power consumption is not linear. A 10% decrease in clock speed can reduce energy consumption by more than 10%. So if you had perfect CPU scaling, 4 CPUs at 1 GHz would be offer lower energy consumption and equal performance to 2 CPUs at 2 GHz. Unfortunately, scaling is not perfect. More importantly, that's not what HTC is doing. Someone above said they're running all 4 cores at 1.7 GHz - so the power consumption will be high.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mazda 3s View Post

But that's not the point that I was responding to. The other posters were saying that 468ppi was overkill. And there lies the rub, there's no question that Apple will release a higher resolution display at some point. The current iPhone 5 is 326ppi, this is 468ppi. At what point does the increased ppi not become "overkill"? 375ppi, 400ppi?

Simple - when it no longer offers a benefit. More ppi means that your CPU and, especially, GPU have to work harder and consume more energy. The screen costs more. But once you have finer resolution than your eye can see, it no longer offers any benefit.

Apple's current iPhone is a retina display. That means that the pixels are small enough to be indistinguishable at normal viewing distance. Now, if you're going to argue that people will view their phones from a closer distance, then a higher ppi might make sense. Otherwise, there's no benefit and lots of disadvantages.
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post #97 of 221
Quote:
Originally Posted by ecpho View Post

ok - that's not constructive. you've never used a Nexus 4 then. nothing I can do here then.

Well, I didn't ask you to do anything here. (Certainly not to try to convert me to an Android user).

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post #98 of 221
Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffDM View Post

Age has something to do with it. Also, there will be some people that have spectacular vision. I need correction, but with correction, I'm about 20/10.

How close one holds the device has a lot to do with it too. 300ppi is more than good for most people at about 12", 468 ppi gets pretty silly, you have to hold the device about 7.5" to get comparable performance.

You're just not getting it¡ 1080p on a phone means that your Blu-ray disks can play pixel-for-pixel on the phone. Surely they have a Blu-ray accessory for this device.
Edited by SolipsismX - 2/19/13 at 11:59am

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post #99 of 221
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta View Post


Apple's current iPhone is a retina display. That means that the pixels are small enough to be indistinguishable at normal viewing distance. Now, if you're going to argue that people will view their phones from a closer distance, then a higher ppi might make sense. Otherwise, there's no benefit and lots of disadvantages.

 

As I stated a few posts up, I can make out the pixels on large screen android phones with 720p displays. 1080p displays (should) alleviate that.

 

If this thing has the horsepower to run the display, has decent battery life, and isn't a lagfest, more power to them. I'm not going to sit here and bitch them out for going that route. 

post #100 of 221
Quote:
Originally Posted by Suddenly Newton View Post


Well, I didn't ask you to do anything here. (Certainly not to try to convert me to an Android user).

i thought this was a place for conversation - but i see it gets immature quickly here on AI - if you don't love everything apple does. (and as I said earlier - I've been using Macs for the last 15 years exclusively).

post #101 of 221
Quote:
Originally Posted by Neo42 View Post

Familiar casing eh? Framentation crap. Malware. Google Evil. Big as my car, you look dumb holding it to your head cause phone are fashion. 1080p too much. Prob explodes after eating batteries.


And you are jealous, and it shows.

post #102 of 221
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mazda 3s View Post

But that's not the point that I was responding to. The other posters were saying that 468ppi was overkill. And there lies the rub, there's no question that Apple will release a higher resolution display at some point. The current iPhone 5 is 326ppi, this is 468ppi. At what point does the increased ppi not become "overkill"? 375ppi, 400ppi?

To say it's overkill in and of itself is over the top but to not acknowledge how a significantly higher PPI affects the ASIC, the GPU, or power requirements is shortsighted. Apple is the only company that consistently considers all aspects of usability and doesn't put it before being able to win a gold medal at the Spec-ial Olympics.

I think 326 PPI will be with us awhile because it's already higher than nearly all people in the world can differentiate and to double it again to 652 PPI would put it in the range of the iPad (3)'s pixel count which already has a much larger ASIC, more power GPU, and much larger battery over the iPad 2 to make that display work. Eventually this will be feasible (note I didn't say possible) but today is not that day.

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"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

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post #103 of 221
Quote:
Originally Posted by gwmac View Post

How many of you have actually held and used a 1080P phone in person? All these theories mean nothing until you actually view the screen. Since my friend has the HTC Droid DNA I have held and viewed the display and it is absolutely gorgeous.

Funny, when Apple introduced the retina iPhone and retina MBP, all the complainers were saying just the opposite.
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post #104 of 221
Quote:
Originally Posted by island hermit View Post

So... Apple is happy to see 200 million plus sales a year go to its competitors...

Thank you for the most stupid answer of the day.

Many Androiders wouldn't have bought an iPhone any way. There are still more that were pushed to an android. Then there were others that bought into the BOGO events.
post #105 of 221
This phone while very nice will fail. Instead of making the DNA for VZW and the One for all other carriers they should have streamlined their offering to one device across all carriers. I would've even avoided ATT since over 80% of smartphone sales are iPhones.
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post #106 of 221
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

You're just getting it¡ 1080p on a phone means that your Blu-ray disks can play pixel-for-pixel on the phone. Surely they have a Blu-ray accessory for this device.

It's called a HDMI cord.
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post #107 of 221
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post


To say it's overkill in and of itself is over the top but to not acknowledge how a significantly higher PPI affects the ASIC, the GPU, or power requirements is shortsighted. Apple is the only company that consistently considers all aspects of usability and doesn't put it before being able to win a gold medal at the Spec-ial Olympics.

I think 326 PPI will be with us awhile because it's already higher than nearly all people in the world can differentiate and to double it again to 652 PPI would put it in the range of the iPad (3)'s pixel count which already has a much larger ASIC, more power GPU, and much larger battery over the iPad 2 to make that display work. Eventually this will be feasible (note I didn't say possible) but today is not that day.

 

I think you make valid points here. However, this thing has a next generation quad-core ARM design running at 1.7GHz coupled with 2GB of RAM. For comparison, the iPhone 5 is dual-core, ~1GHz I believe with 1GB of RAM. It definitely has the horsepower. Also, it has a 2300 mAh battery compared to 1440 mAh for the iPhone 5. Qualcomm is also touting a lot of power savings with this new design and the ability to throttle or turn off cores. It's also 28nm versus 32nm for the A6.

 

I'm not saying that it will be perfect (no smartphone is), but I'm willing to give them benefit... for now.

 

I just get annoyed when people talk in absolutes 1wink.gif

post #108 of 221
Originally Posted by dasanman69 View Post
It's called a HDMI cord.

 

Oh, right, because some of these phones actually have MiniHDMI… lol.gif

Originally Posted by Marvin

The only thing more insecure than Android’s OS is its userbase.
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The only thing more insecure than Android’s OS is its userbase.
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post #109 of 221
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta View Post

Funny, when Apple introduced the retina iPhone and retina MBP, all the complainers were saying just the opposite.

Remember when they were saying how Samsung's PenTile displays were just as good and had a higher number of pixels. Remember when they were saying that Retina was overkill despite not being that much over what someone with 20/20(6/6) vision could see from a normal viewing distance…and yet now the iPhone has a crap display.

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"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

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post #110 of 221
Quote:
Originally Posted by macxpress View Post

 

Well la-te-da...You found 2 great apps for Android. Yay! Nobody has to use iTunes anymore. iPhones aren't tied to iTunes. 

 

Actually, I can name two more fantastic apps that you will never get on iOS.  Tasker and Cyberus.  Tasker was the reason why I left iOS because it allowed me to have complete control over my phone based on geographical position and that was 3 years ago.

 

As for iTunes, can you browse iTunes on the web and buy things without actually having to install it?  I have tried and I cannot do it.  With Google play, I can surf iOS at work, buy apps and then remotely install them on whatever device I want (Nexus 7, Galaxy Nexus, etc..).  Very cool feature and I do not need to install and constantly updated a piece of software to do it (like iTunes seems to do).

post #111 of 221
Quote:
Originally Posted by jungmark View Post


Many Androiders wouldn't have bought an iPhone any way. There are still more that were pushed to an android. Then there were others that bought into the BOGO events.

 

So you've given up on them and are satisfied to let all 200+ million people per year use another OS.

 

Hmmm... not the way I'd do business and you can be damn sure not the way that Tim Cook does business either.

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post #112 of 221
Quote:
Originally Posted by dasanman69 View Post

This phone while very nice will fail. Instead of making the DNA for VZW and the One for all other carriers they should have streamlined their offering to one device across all carriers. I would've even avoided ATT since over 80% of smartphone sales are iPhones.


Who are VZW and ATT, and why should I care?  In what way do they determine the success or failure of this phone in the global marketplace?


Edited by cnocbui - 2/19/13 at 2:17pm
post #113 of 221
Originally Posted by zippy2shoes View Post

…and constantly updated a piece of software to do it (like iTunes seems to do).

 

An average of about one update every two months is "constantly"? Why don't you want updated software? Why do you think you need to have the software updated?

Originally Posted by Marvin

The only thing more insecure than Android’s OS is its userbase.
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post #114 of 221
So, is it basically the usual HTC with some hardware updates and "BlinkFeed" (what an awful name)? I don't see a software upgrade in this that makes me want to buy it over another Android device with similar hardware. These phones seem to have no differentiation, so buyers will just choose based on hardware specs.
post #115 of 221
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mazda 3s View Post

I think you make valid points here. However, this thing has a next generation quad-core ARM design running at 1.7GHz coupled with 2GB of RAM. For comparison, the iPhone 5 is dual-core, ~1GHz I believe with 1GB of RAM. It definitely has the horsepower. Also, it has a 2300 mAh battery compared to 1440 mAh for the iPhone 5. Qualcomm is also touting a lot of power savings with this new design and the ability to throttle or turn off cores. It's also 28nm versus 32nm for the A6.

I'm not saying that it will be perfect (no smartphone is), but I'm willing to give them benefit... for now.

I just get annoyed when people talk in absolutes 1wink.gif

The number of cores and cycle speed of the ARM processor are meaningless when it comes to the display. Same goes with the amount of RAM here because we're not talking about GPU RAM and if we were a lot still has to do with the memory bandwidth. We're also talking about disparate OSes and, at least with Apple, a custom SoC which means that it can do more with less RAM which helps the battery life. Check out AnandTech's review of the iPad (3). He clearly shows what Apple did to the ASIC to make it push over 3 million pixels to the display well.

Now this LG only has 2 million pixels to push so it doesn't need the same range but it's closer to the iPad than to the iPhone so can it get away without having a 128-bit quad-channel memory controller?

Clearly it's possible to add a larger this and that but how does it affect the other components and the overall usability? I'm not a gamer but I know that you can alter the game resolution to make the frame rates better or worse. We also know that Apple increased the battery by about 70% over the iPad 2 so it could maintain about the same battery life as before. You say that it has a 2400 mAh battery but that means nothing in and of itself.

So what is the performance and battery life of this device? IOW, was it smart for them to go so high up so they could maintain a 1920x1080 display on a phone? What is the cost for this one spec list item? My guess is that it won't be shown as a good trade off.


Yes, people should never talk in absolutes.

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"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

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post #116 of 221
Quote:
Originally Posted by mausz View Post

 

My first reaction when seeing the Iphone5  2-tone back was that they'd taken this specific design cue from HTC which has been doing these 2-tone designs for a couple of generations (one of the reason I did not like them)

Is there a specific HTC model the iPhone 5 reminds you of?  I don't think this new HTC phone is a complete iPhone 5 ripoff (some would argue it looks Iike the new Blackberry) but aluminum with what appears to be chamfered edges does seem to take cues from the 5.

post #117 of 221
Quote:
Originally Posted by hill60 View Post

 

More cores CAN result in better power efficiency, if you mix low and high power cores and switch the high power ones off when not required.

 

Is there any evidence for this whatsoever? In a real live device?

 

Tegra 3 did this. Did Tegra 3 devices end up being the longest lasting devices in the market?

 

If it is really useful, why doesn't Intel do this in their mobile processors?

post #118 of 221
Quote:
Originally Posted by cnocbui View Post


Who are VZW and ATT, and why should I care?  In what way do they determine the seucces or failure of this phone in the global marketplace?

Just the 2 biggest carriers in the biggest and growing smartphone market in the world. One can argue that VZW singlehandedly propelled Android to where it is today, and the same can be said of ATT and the iPhone. Can the same be said of any other carrier in the world?
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post #119 of 221
Quote:
Originally Posted by ifij775 View Post

So, is it basically the usual HTC with some hardware updates and "BlinkFeed" (what an awful name)? I don't see a software upgrade in this that makes me want to buy it over another Android device with similar hardware. These phones seem to have no differentiation, so buyers will just choose based on hardware specs.

Well the Sense UI adds a lot of functionality not common found on Android devices and with the agreement with Apple have functions that were removed from others.
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post #120 of 221
Quote:
Originally Posted by ecpho View Post

i thought this was a place for conversation - but i see it gets immature quickly here on AI - if you don't love everything apple does. (and as I said earlier - I've been using Macs for the last 15 years exclusively).

I have said nothing of the sort: you're twisting this into something else. And now you've quoted the number of years you've (allegedly) used Macs. That doesn't matter to me because I don't judge you based on some fealty to Apple.

You came here and you told people to try Android, because you like Android. And I'm telling you that people like iPhones, and there's nothing wrong with that. I didn't ask to be 'saved' from iPhone. All the things that you perceive as iPhone's flaws, such as the home button, or boring UI, can also be perceived as strengths. But you won't hear any of that. And now you're caught up in reframing this discussion as "I'm a rational person who can appreciate Android, but I can't have 'conversation' about how awful iPhone is with all you 'immature' people unless I prove that I've used Macs for 15 years." That's the wrong way to look at this.

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