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post #81 of 105
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alfiejr View Post

no i didn't watch. it goes on and on. there is no press release i can find with a summary.

http://nz.playstation.com/home/news/articles/detail/item583727/Say-hello-to-PlayStation-4/
post #82 of 105
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alfiejr View Post

no i didn't watch. it goes on and on. there is no press release i can find with a summary.

I came across this one:

http://technabob.com/blog/2013/02/20/sony-ps4-specs-games-announced/
Quote:
the PS3 can do a lot of non-gaming stuff, yes, but often poorly as you note. few use it as their primary non-gaming ecosystem interface. if the PS4 doesn't make that great somehow, it can never compete with the rest - Apple, Amazon, Google, MS, et al. Sony's tablets and phones are distant also-rans in their markets. and is their ecosystem Sony's or Google's?

Don't forget PS3 was developed around 2005 - 2006. Before iPhone, before iPad, before... lots of things we take for granted today. It is also heavily limited with system resources. I still get amazed with what they managed to pull out from 256MB of RAM and 256MB of VRAM. That is below what smartphones and tablets have for a while, and I'm yet to see a game in the same class as Uncharted 2 and 3. Or Killzone 2 and 3. Or... take your pick.

In addition. There are "independent" (non-Apple, non-Google, non-MS, non-Amazon) services which do well, and might be interested in partnership with console maker. Sony presented slide with maybe 16 different services they have already partnered with. I've noticed Facebook, Hulu Plus, Netflick. They also mentioned their own Sony Music and Sony Video (or whatever their movies/TV department is called). Put them all together, and one can get spoiled - without iTunes. Question is, how well will they integrate, and how competitive will they be in terms of pricing etc. That remains to be seen.
Quote:
the just announced iOS app for the PS4 is a big step in the right direction tho. if Sony had sense they would cut a deal with Apple to integrate all their hardware with the iOS ecosystem - apps, AirPlay, everything. most of their products Apple does not compete with. and then ditch their Android and Windows gadgets, where they are just one of many OEM's in a race to the bottom.

Really? Ditch integration with PC, Android phones and tablets (which Sony also happens to make)? Please.
Quote:
but they won't. they aren't desperate enough - yet.

I think that is reason, not desperation (or lack of it). Sony's company with rich media background. Not trying to take advantage of their own services would be real stupidity.
post #83 of 105
Quote:
Originally Posted by emacs72 View Post

 

 

the PlayStation 4 is a game console so, of course, a primary focus is on games.

 

tablets and consoles exist in different markets so it was rather pointless to bring up the "tablets are continuing to outsell consoles" foolishness.

We will see. With a probably $500 console and most likely $80 games who is going to buy a video games console over an ipad  and $5 games?  Then to get the full experience you have to have a tablet or psp vita.

 

Look at what epic is doing graphics wise on the ipad and iphone and for cheap.

 

Sony is trying to compete for the dwindling numbers of hardcore gamers.  I really think that this system will be way to expensive compaired to say an ipad or ipad mini.

post #84 of 105
Quote:
Originally Posted by majortom1981 View Post

We will see. With a probably $500 console and most likely $80 games who is going to buy a video games console over an ipad  and $5 games?  Then to get the full experience you have to have a tablet or psp vita.

Look at what epic is doing graphics wise on the ipad and iphone and for cheap.

Sony is trying to compete for the dwindling numbers of hardcore gamers.  I really think that this system will be way to expensive compaired to say an ipad or ipad mini.

I doubt that the price of games will go up. What makes you think that the number of hardcore gamers is going down? Hardware sales might be down but only because they've been selling it for 7 years. A game released today can be played on a PS3 bought on Day 1 or yesterday.
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post #85 of 105
Quote:
Originally Posted by majortom1981 View Post

We will see. With a probably $500 console and most likely $80 games who is going to buy a video games console over an ipad  and $5 games?  Then to get the full experience you have to have a tablet or psp vita.

 

Look at what epic is doing graphics wise on the ipad and iphone and for cheap.

 

Sony is trying to compete for the dwindling numbers of hardcore gamers.  I really think that this system will be way to expensive compaired to say an ipad or ipad mini.

A game like Destiny could never be put on an iPad.  That is the difference between an iPad game and a game on a console.  

 

People love their iPad and iPhone games but most of them have no shelf life.  I stopped playing games on my phone a long time ago because I would get bored with them after a week.  Most of them have no story and are the same thing over and over again until you die, and the game restarts.

 

People that will buy a ps4 or a 720, or a Wii U will want quality games that are complex and have depth.

post #86 of 105
Originally Posted by RichL View Post
Let the bad-mouthing begin!

 

They've been copying Nintendo for nearly two decades. They deserve it.


Originally Posted by deepkid View Post
Is Sony -still- living in 1993?

 

Been copying Nintendo for that long… lol.gif


Originally Posted by Galley View Post
The PlayStation 3 has outsold the Xbox 360.

 

And the Wii outsold them both COMBINED.

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post #87 of 105
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post


And the Wii outsold them both COMBINED.

And the PS2 has sold more than the Wii

What is your point?
post #88 of 105
Originally Posted by jfanning View Post
And the PS2 has sold more than the Wii

What is your point?

 

Irrelevant; different generation, longer sales time, etc. 

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post #89 of 105
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

Irrelevant; different generation, longer sales time, etc. 

Well some would say the Wii is a different generation to the PS3, and XBOX 360, I would say the Wii is more in the PS2 camp
post #90 of 105
Originally Posted by jfanning View Post
Well some would say the Wii is a different generation to the PS3, and XBOX 360, I would say the Wii is more in the PS2 camp

 

"Some" are completely wrong, is all.

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post #91 of 105
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

"Some" are completely wrong, is all.

Really, The Wii is a SD console, XBox 360 and PS3 are HD, there is a big generational gap to start with.
post #92 of 105
Originally Posted by jfanning View Post
Really, The Wii is a SD console, XBox 360 and PS3 are HD, there is a big generational gap to start with.

 

No, see, this is meaningless. They're the same generation. You can't argue otherwise.

 

And I don't know why you are; the Wii being an "earlier" generation makes the anemic sales of the PS3 and Xbox 360 that have "better graphics" even more embarrassing.

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post #93 of 105
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

No, see, this is meaningless. They're the same generation. You can't argue otherwise.

And I don't know why you are; the Wii being an "earlier" generation makes the anemic sales of the PS3 and Xbox 360 that have "better graphics" even more embarrassing.

And how is the attachment rate of the Wii going?
post #94 of 105
Originally Posted by jfanning View Post
And how is the attachment rate of the Wii going?

 

*shrug* You tell me. Your claim, after all, is that it's lower than the other consoles'; except since the Wii has sold more overall, that sounds implausible. 

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post #95 of 105
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

*shrug* You tell me. Your claim, after all, is that it's lower than the other consoles'; except since the Wii has sold more overall, that sounds implausible. 

It sounds implausible? Why? Do you have an any insight into the game purchasing habit of Wii users. I know from my own personal experience, everyone I know with a Wii has around 1-3 games, everyone that plays on PS3, or PC has 40+ games
post #96 of 105

The Japanese Bandai Pippin (Atmark Player) and wireless controller

 

There you go. An Apple game console.

post #97 of 105
Originally Posted by jfanning View Post
Do you have an any insight into the game purchasing habit of Wii users. I know from my own personal experience, everyone I know with a Wii has around 1-3 games, everyone that plays on PS3, or PC has 40+ games

 

The complete opposite is true, in my experience. Which is why we'll probably need something beyond anecdotal evidence to finish this up.

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post #98 of 105
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

 

The complete opposite is true, in my experience. Which is why we'll probably need something beyond anecdotal evidence to finish this up.

 

 

 When's the last time you tried to find articles from 2008 on a search engine?!  It's not easy but I found a few:

 

http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20080421/131636905.shtml

http://kotaku.com/382123/wii-owners-dont-buy-games

 

But wait, those are half baked, no-name sites.  What do they know?  Then there's this article from another source called the "New York Times".  

 

http://goo.gl/FllSV

 

The only people I know that own more Wii games than Xbox games don't own an Xbox.  Given your love for Nintendo, it's no surprise your acquaintances have more Wii games, assuming they share your fondness.  All of our observations are anecdotal, but broader studies support the idea that Wii owners don't buy as many games.


Edited by rednival - 2/22/13 at 9:53pm
post #99 of 105
Originally Posted by rednival View Post
 When's the last time you tried to find articles from 2008 on a search engine?! 

 

So why is a study from 2008 valid today?

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post #100 of 105
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

 

So why is a study from 2008 valid today?

 

Because it still holds true.  Media reports on changes in trends.  You don't see very many "nothing has changed" articles.  But I certainly don't expect that to make you happy.  I really don't expect this to help much either, so this is the last time I'm humoring you on this thread.  You can taunt me later over something I have less certainty about.

 

http://www.vgchartz.com/yearly/2013/Global/

 

Console Software Hardware Per Console
Wii 836,521,773 98,951,773 8
Xbox360 739,430,294 74,252,266 10
PS3 642,283,454 72,817,420 9

 

Hard numbers from a trusted solution in the industry.  No, the numbers are not vastly different, but the article from 2008 did not show a huge disparity either. 

post #101 of 105

The Law on Unintended Consequences

 

Back when Sony launched the PS3, it was sold with a high end processor, and Blu-Ray drive - and was also subsidized in the hope that they could recover the losses from game sales. However, a large number of people bought the PS3 to use it as a Blu-Ray player, and never really purchased games in any significant number. While this helped Sony win the format war against HD-DVD, it did not really help them make profits. Sony has been bleeding money for several years now.

 

I think this time around, Sony is going to be in deeper shit. I would not be surprised if hackers figured out how to run Windows on the PS4, and replaced Sony's OS with Windows. Effectively you would have a superfast PC for anywhere from $300 to $500, depending on how much Sony subsidizes the PS4. And with 8GB of GDDR5, this would be one hell of a machine!

post #102 of 105
Quote:
Originally Posted by macarena 
I think this time around, Sony is going to be in deeper shit. I would not be surprised if hackers figured out how to run Windows on the PS4, and replaced Sony's OS with Windows. Effectively you would have a superfast PC for anywhere from $300 to $500, depending on how much Sony subsidizes the PS4. And with 8GB of GDDR5, this would be one hell of a machine!

Yes people could do that and if Sony make a loss on the console, they wouldn't easily recoup the money but there aren't too many people adept at hacking an OS onto a console for it to be a major issue and they'd lose the ability to play PS4 games.

I think Sony's big problem last time was pricing it too high at launch ($499). They said using AMD hardware meant they could be much more flexible on pricing this time:

http://uk.ign.com/articles/2013/02/21/sony-flexible-on-playstation-4-cost

It would be best to just have a single 500GB model at $399 and get it down to $299 after 1-2 years.
post #103 of 105
Originally Posted by rednival View Post
Because it still holds true.

 

Except you can't say that without newer data.

 

Media reports on changes in trends.  You don't see very many "nothing has changed" articles.

 

You see hundreds of articles about change when nothing has changed. That's why I question it.

 

Okay, see, this is actually relevant. Thanks.

 

Now for the other guy to come back and explain why he decided he could move the goalposts and talk about this in the first place. Pathetic.

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post #104 of 105
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marvin View Post

Yes people could do that and if Sony make a loss on the console, they wouldn't easily recoup the money but there aren't too many people adept at hacking an OS onto a console for it to be a major issue and they'd lose the ability to play PS4 games.

I think Sony's big problem last time was pricing it too high at launch ($499). They said using AMD hardware meant they could be much more flexible on pricing this time:

http://uk.ign.com/articles/2013/02/21/sony-flexible-on-playstation-4-cost

It would be best to just have a single 500GB model at $399 and get it down to $299 after 1-2 years.

Well a big part of the price back then was the included BR player which by themselves cost more than the PS3. That's no longer the case. I expect the PS4 to have a lower initial price.
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post #105 of 105
Quote:
Originally Posted by dasanman69 
Well a big part of the price back then was the included BR player which by themselves cost more than the PS3. That's no longer the case. I expect the PS4 to have a lower initial price.

That's right, the lower Blu-Ray costs will help a lot. A Japanese newspaper claims to have a price:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-2275580/PS4-release-price-PlayStation-4-cost-just-270-steal-march-generation-Xbox.html

and there's another one here:

http://www.nowgamer.com/news/1814507/ps4_to_be_about_300_report.html

It's probably just speculation but somewhere between $299-399 looks likely. The leaked document for the next XBox here:

http://www.theverge.com/2012/6/16/3090944/microsoft-xbox-720-kinect-2-kinect-glasses-doc-leak-rumor

had suggested $299 with Blu-Ray too so Sony has to be competitive with that. Microsoft seems to be gearing up for an event in April:

http://www.neoseeker.com/news/22280-xboxeventcom-registered-by-microsofts-e3-presentation-organizers/
http://venturebeat.com/2013/02/22/rumor-microsoft-has-xbox-720-event-in-the-works-for-april/

They'd do well to launch before Sony like they did last time and get the cross-platform titles earlier - there are a few high-end titles coming before Christmas.

There's a demo of the PS4 and the exclusive Killzone: Shadow Fall (1:50 for gameplay):



The visuals look nice - they can obviously enable ambient occlusion, it looks fully anti-aliased, they have some hardware-accelerated physics and high poly counts but they'll have to bring out some more interesting gameplay than that. It doesn't look much different from FEAR on the PS3:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=oJFVifgBg84#t=74s

I suspect these consoles will be the last ones they make because improving the visuals further just won't offer enough value. There's a tablet that tries to offer the PC experience here:

http://www.razerzone.com/gaming-systems/razer-edge-pro

It's going to struggle at $1299 with only a 640M and a 1-2 hour battery life while gaming but tablets will eventually reach a good performance level at a decent price point. The PowerVR 6 will exceed the PS3 and 360 GPU capability and mobile graphics only need to double in performance every year to match the latest consoles in about 3 years, which is well into their lifecycle. Hardware like the XBox Surface might well be the best strategy for the long term.
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