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Brazilian lawsuit accuses Apple of 'planned obsolescence' with fourth-gen iPad - Page 2

post #41 of 104
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogifan View Post

Just curious what exactly you can do with the 4th gen that you can't do on the 3rd?  I'm not aware of anything.

Well, it is more powerful and there are certain apps that require power.

 

I can easily max out the power of my iPad 3 and bring it to it's knees when using certain pro apps. I wouldn't mind having double or quadruple the power that I currently have, because I would certainly make good use of it.

post #42 of 104
With "Moore's Law" planned obsolescence is a feature, not a bug! As another example, one could say Intel's whole business plan has ALWAYS been roadmap of planned obsolescence! Beyond that, well, planned obsolescence describes computing as an industry in general.

Snarkyness aside, the reconciliation of a rapidly changing world with the need to protect consumers for rational reasons will become a sticky bit of business more and more in the near future.
post #43 of 104
Quote:
Originally Posted by Apple ][ View Post

Well, it is more powerful and there are certain apps that require power.

 

I can easily max out the power of my iPad 3 and bring it to it's knees when using certain pro apps. I wouldn't mind having double or quadruple the power that I currently have, because I would certainly make good use of it.

Well then I guess they should be suing lots of companies.  Last time I checked you can't upgrade the internals of any tablet device.

post #44 of 104

Computer mfg have been pushing out speed bump models every 6 to 12 months all of the time.  they might as well sue everyone that makes computers.

 

Does the iPad 3 not support the latest OS and applications?  NO.  Then it's not obsolete.  All they did was to make some changes to the product.  What is the definition of the word Obsolete?  a: no longer in use or no longer useful 

 

Is the iPad 3 no longer useful?  NO.  They are quite useful.  The iPad 2 still exists and that's useful.  They just have two models to choose from for the large screen display.

 

Apple had actually given customers 30 days return privileges for iPad 3's purchased within 30 days.  How do I know?  I was one of those that bought an iPad 3 and returned it for an iPad 4.  they didn't question it.  Hassle free exchange through their phone sales team.

 

I guess these countries have nothing better to do than to sue rich companies for product updates because they are looking for a hand out because the politicians don't know how to manage their own affairs.  Did the Country of Brazil buy any iPad 3's?  Probably not.


This is a prime example of a frivolous lawsuit.
 

post #45 of 104
Originally Posted by drblank View Post

Does the iPad 3 not support the latest OS and applications?  NO.  Then it's not obsolete.  All they did was to make some changes to the product.  What is the definition of the word Obsolete?  a: no longer in use or no longer useful 

 

Is the iPad 3 no longer useful?  NO.  They are quite useful.  The iPad 2 still exists and that's useful.  They just have two models to choose from for the large screen display.

 

To be fair, there are some applications that require the iPad 4, but your point is, of course, very valid. There will always be software that only runs on the newest machine; this is true for any technology. The iPad 3 remains no worse for wear.

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post #46 of 104
Quote:
Originally Posted by "Apple 
[" url="/t/156099/brazilian-lawsuit-accuses-apple-of-planned-obsolescence-with-fourth-gen-ipad#post_2281788"]No, that's what an Apple employee told me once when I was there a while ago. 

But I did find this link from a couple of years ago, where it says that the Fifth Avenue store grosses $35,000 per square foot. I was in that store a few weeks ago to pick something up, and there are always plenty of tourists and foreigners always picking up Apple devices on their visit to the US.


Fifth Avenue Apple store said to gross $35,000 per square foot. Can it be true?



http://www.dailyfinance.com/2009/08/24/apples-reported-35-000-per-square-foot-gross-on-fifth-ave-can/

There are more recent articles. I remember reading how Apple was more profitable per sq ft than Tiffany's.
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post #47 of 104

Just like many other idiots, they think obsolete means no longer the newest technology. Obsolete really means no longer of general use. When you understand that, you realize that even the 1st gen iPad isn't obsolete yet. 

post #48 of 104

deleted


Edited by MacRulez - 7/5/13 at 3:38pm
post #49 of 104
Is there a law that stipulates how long a computing device has to be offered for sale by the mfg? NO.
post #50 of 104
Quote:
Originally Posted by Apple ][ View Post

And while we're on the subject of Brazil, I also think that it was a mistake to be building any factories there, and it would also be a mistake to be building any factories in Turkey. 

 

I would counter that the reverse is true. Apple should have factories in as many countries as possible. Diversifying countries means if one country goes stupid with their rules it would be more readily possible to nix that production area. And with production in various countries it gives leverage to argue exemption to various import laws if the product selling in the country is being built in said country. 

post #51 of 104

The iPad 3 was originally released on March 16, 20012.

The iPad 4 was originally released on November 2, 20012.

 

By my calculations, that's a little more than 7 months, not 6 months.

post #52 of 104
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleFanPro View Post

Just like many other idiots, they think obsolete means no longer the newest technology. Obsolete really means no longer of general use. When you understand that, you realize that even the 1st gen iPad isn't obsolete yet. 

It doesn't matter. Even if the iPad 3 were obsolete, it's irrelevant. Apple's competing with other companies and has to continually improve their products. They have the right to release new products with any new features they want at any time.

Let's say that the allegations were true. Pretend that the A6x and Lightning connector were available at the time the iPad 3 was released. So? Which law requires a company to always include it's latest technology in any product they sell? When a company has a strong lead over the competition, it's not at all uncommon to hold some new features or products in reserve for when the competition catches up to where you are today.
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post #53 of 104
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogifan View Post

Well then I guess they should be suing lots of companies.  Last time I checked you can't upgrade the internals of any tablet device.

These people suing aren't the brightest people in the world, so let them sue whoever they want.

post #54 of 104
Quote:
Originally Posted by dasanman69 View Post


There are more recent articles. I remember reading how Apple was more profitable per sq ft than Tiffany's.

Yeah, that's true. I remember reading the same thing about Tiffany's.

 

Also, I believe that the Fifth Ave store is the only Apple store to be open 24-7-365. With the money that they're raking in, I wouldn't dare close either! lol.gif

post #55 of 104

Even as a Brazilian I find it extremely difficult to agree with such a lawsuit - it is more than clear that Apple has provided sufficient information for potential customers in Brazil to make their purchasing decisions. However, most of the usually US-centric comments in this thread ignore that different countries follow different consumer protection principles, particularly those with a clear European Continental Law background like Brazil. Whereas in the US one normally follows the principle of contractual freedom and little else, in many other countries you can have comprehensive statutes which do, indeed, play an important role against possible abuses by vendors and service providers.

 

In any case, the only theoretical possibility that a judge might consider refers to misleading publicity, if it is proven beyond doubt that Apple deliberately fooled the public in buying an outdated device (see excerpt of article 37 below):

 

"§ 1° É enganosa qualquer modalidade de informação ou comunicação de caráter publicitário, inteira ou parcialmente falsa, ou, por qualquer outro modo, mesmo por omissão, capaz de induzir em erro o consumidor a respeito da natureza, características, qualidade, quantidade, propriedades, origem, preço e quaisquer outros dados sobre produtos e serviços."

 

Having said the above, I still consider this as just another easy case for Apple - they won't have to spend much time on it.

 

p.s.1: For the "enlightened" citizens of the US of A here, please understand one thing: your country is, BY FAR, the most prodigal in frivolous lawsuits, particularly class-action suits like the one above...if in doubt, go check the pathetically-funny Stella Awards.

 

p.s.2: Brazil is not the new China, and never will become one. We are western people with western values and have ZERO similarity with low-cost sweatshops in Southeast Asia, Eastern Europe and Central America. So go read more about the country instead of spouting nonsense.

 

p.s.3: Apple devices are expensive in Brazil because of HIGH import taxes aimed at fostering local manufacturing (exactly what YOU are asking for now in your own country - LOCAL plants), numerous indirect taxes and the excessive willingness to pay more of many middle- and higher-class Brazilians. This is not Burundi, ya know...

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post #56 of 104
Poor Brazilians sucking up to rich American companies for forced handouts.
post #57 of 104
This has to be one of stupidest lawsuit Apple has to deal with.

They clearly misinterpret the term 'planned obsolescence' term. It means when it stops working or becomes severely limited in usefulness after a certain period of time. There is difference between that and envy. Apple owes you nothing in terms of you having the latest device when you buy it apart from the warranty.

This is plain stupid.
post #58 of 104
If we move to Brazil would we be able to get an iPad4 for our still lovely iPad2 ?

The lawyers must love all these DUMB legal attacks on Apple.
post #59 of 104
Quote:
Originally Posted by charlituna View Post

 

I would counter that the reverse is true. Apple should have factories in as many countries as possible. Diversifying countries means if one country goes stupid with their rules it would be more readily possible to nix that production area. And with production in various countries it gives leverage to argue exemption to various import laws if the product selling in the country is being built in said country. 

 

Setting up factories everywhere is no easy task and certainly not cheap. Apple's products also require specialized equipment in many cases, and it seems to me as if this is going to require a huge investment. And what about finding qualified labor? As we see from China, it takes a whole bunch of workers to assemble Apple products. I don't think that Apple should be investing it's money in these countries. 

 

And what about Apple leaks multiplying ten fold? With many more factories, workers and loose mouths, we'll be reading about leaks every five minutes.

post #60 of 104
QQ
post #61 of 104

Tim Cook:  "Hello... Brazil? I just found out about your lawsuit. We're going to tell Foxconn to shut down their manufacturing facility. We no longer require your services."

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post #62 of 104
Quote:
Originally Posted by brlawyer View Post

p.s.3: Apple devices are expensive in Brazil because of HIGH import taxes aimed at fostering local manufacturing (exactly what YOU are asking for now in your own country - LOCAL plants), numerous indirect taxes and the excessive willingness to pay more of many middle- and higher-class Brazilians. This is not Burundi, ya know...

 

Maybe the US should do what Brazil does, impose a penalty tax on foreign companies by having ridiculously high import taxes, and then Apple products would cost the same in the US, but all Samsung device prices would go up drastically overnight. Samsung sales in the US would drop to almost zero. I'm kind of liking that idea.

post #63 of 104
Quote:
Originally Posted by SpamSandwich View Post

Tim Cook:  "Hello... Brazil? I just found out about your lawsuit. We're going to tell Foxconn to shut down their manufacturing facility. We no longer require your services."

 

And remember, Brazil is also where Apple does not have the rights to the iPhone name! I've been against that Foxconn Brazil factory since the beginning. 

post #64 of 104
I laughed out loud at this story. Really.
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post #65 of 104
Quote:
Originally Posted by "Apple 
[" url="/t/156099/brazilian-lawsuit-accuses-apple-of-planned-obsolescence-with-fourth-gen-ipad/40#post_2281852"]
Quote:
Originally Posted by brlawyer View Post

p.s.3: Apple devices are expensive in Brazil because of HIGH import taxes aimed at fostering local manufacturing (exactly what YOU are asking for now in your own country - LOCAL plants), numerous indirect taxes and the excessive willingness to pay more of many middle- and higher-class Brazilians. This is not Burundi, ya know...

Maybe the US should do what Brazil does, impose a penalty tax on foreign companies by having ridiculously high import taxes, and then Apple products would cost the same in the US, but all Samsung device prices would go up drastically overnight. Samsung sales in the US would drop to almost zero. I'm kind of liking that idea.

You might want to think that through a bit more.
post #66 of 104
Quote:
Originally Posted by SpamSandwich View Post

Tim Cook:  "Hello... Brazil? I just found out about your lawsuit. We're going to tell Foxconn to shut down their manufacturing facility. We no longer require your services."

You're really going to hold an entire country liable for the idiotic actions of a few citizens?
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post #67 of 104
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta View Post

Flipping idiots.

If Apple waits 6 months to release a new product, everyone whines that they're falling behind - because Android phone manufacturers release 20 new products a year. If Apple releases a new product after 6 months, they get sued for planned obsolescence.

I really hope this one gets thrown out quickly. I'd hate to thing that Brazil is getting messed up by a$$hat lawyers as much as we are in the US.

I was just going to say that about Android phones. Where is the logic they can release so many and Apple can't?
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post #68 of 104
Quote:
Originally Posted by quinney View Post


You might want to think that through a bit more.

I'm not an expert on import laws, so if you think that something that I have written is incorrect, then feel free to point it out. 

post #69 of 104
Quote:
Originally Posted by dasanman69 View Post


You're really going to hold an entire country liable for the idiotic actions of a few citizens?

What about Apple losing the rights to the iPhone trademark in Brazil?

 

What about the problems at the Foxconn factory, with the workers already threatening to strike?

 

It seems like there is nothing but problems, and Apple shouldn't be bending over backwards to accommodate every country in the world.

post #70 of 104

Stupid lawsuit plain and simple....

post #71 of 104
Quote:
Originally Posted by "Apple 
[" url="/t/156099/brazilian-lawsuit-accuses-apple-of-planned-obsolescence-with-fourth-gen-ipad/40#post_2281912"]What about Apple losing the rights to the iPhone trademark in Brazil?

Apple didn't lose the iPhone trademark in Brazil. They never had it.

The history is quite simple - someone else was using the trademark long before Apple ever started using it. Then Apple started using it around the world. A recent court case said simply that Apple can't have an exclusive on the trademark, but did not say they can't use it (the other owner would have to sue to stop Apple from using it). But since someone else had it first, Apple actually got off easy.
Quote:
Originally Posted by "Apple 
[" url="/t/156099/brazilian-lawsuit-accuses-apple-of-planned-obsolescence-with-fourth-gen-ipad/40#post_2281852"]
Maybe the US should do what Brazil does, impose a penalty tax on foreign companies by having ridiculously high import taxes, and then Apple products would cost the same in the US, but all Samsung device prices would go up drastically overnight. Samsung sales in the US would drop to almost zero. I'm kind of liking that idea.

Unilateral import duties are not very useful. They create inflation and massive dislocation of your economy.

However, there's some value to simply mirroring the trade laws enacted by other countries - the Ryan doctrine (I think it was from Tom Clancy's Debt of Honor). I think that's actually a reasonable position. We believe in free trade, but if you implement protectionist trade rules, we will use exactly the same rules against your country. After all, if it's fair for your country to have the rule, it should be fair for us to have the same rule.
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post #72 of 104
Quote:
Originally Posted by Apple ][ View Post

What about Apple losing the rights to the iPhone trademark in Brazil?

 

What about the problems at the Foxconn factory, with the workers already threatening to strike?

 

It seems like there is nothing but problems, and Apple shouldn't be bending over backwards to accommodate every country in the world.

 

If you have no idea what you're talking about, it's better to remain quiet - just a friendly advice.

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post #73 of 104
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta View Post

However, there's some value to simply mirroring the trade laws enacted by other countries - the Ryan doctrine (I think it was from Tom Clancy's Debt of Honor). I think that's actually a reasonable position. We believe in free trade, but if you implement protectionist trade rules, we will use exactly the same rules against your country. After all, if it's fair for your country to have the rule, it should be fair for us to have the same rule.

 

I agree with that. It sounds like a good, common sense idea. You treat others how they treat you. That sounds fair.

 

If a certain country has protectionist trade rules which affects the US, then the US should implement those same rules right back at them.

post #74 of 104
Quote:
Originally Posted by brlawyer View Post

 

If you have no idea what you're talking about, it's better to remain quiet - just a friendly advice.

Don't blame me if you don't follow the news. Those two things which I mentioned have been widely reported and spoken about, both the iPhone trademark problems and the workers threatening to strike at the Foxconn plant in Brazil.

post #75 of 104
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“…this Society hath a peculiar Cant and Jargon of their own, that no other Mortal can understand, and wherein all their Laws are written, which they take special Care to multiply; whereby they have wholly confounded the very Essence of Truth and Falshood, of Right and Wrong; so that it will take Thirty Years to decide whether the Field, left me by my Ancestors for six Generations, belong to me, or to a Stranger three Hundred Miles off.”
 
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post #76 of 104
Bah... Dumb...Dumb..

I bought an iPad 3, few months later iPad 4 comes out...no big deal. The iPad 3 is just as good as an iPad 4 for what I use it for. My iPad 3 is fine is in no way obsolete.
post #77 of 104
Quote:
Originally Posted by "Apple 
[" url="/t/156099/brazilian-lawsuit-accuses-apple-of-planned-obsolescence-with-fourth-gen-ipad/40#post_2281946"]Don't blame me if you don't follow the news. Those two things which I mentioned have been widely reported and spoken about, both the iPhone trademark problems and the workers threatening to strike at the Foxconn plant in Brazil.


Yes, it was widely reported - so there's no excuse for your mis-stating the facts. Apple never lost the trademark as you claimed. It wasn't theirs in the first place.
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post #78 of 104
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta View Post


Yes, it was widely reported - so there's no excuse for your mis-stating the facts. Apple never lost the trademark as you claimed. It wasn't theirs in the first place.

So why is Apple appealing the decision then, if they don't believe that they have a right to it or that it wasn't theirs? Is Apple wrong?

 

http://blog.legalzoom.com/intellectual-property/apple-appealing-iphone-trademark-ruling-in-brazil/

post #79 of 104
So what is the right wait time to not be "planned obsolescence"? 1 year? 2 years? 6 months, 3 days, 12 hours and 17 minutes? Good lord is this getting stupid or what?
post #80 of 104
For crying out loud, if they're going to sue over planned obsolescence, target the SOFTWARE, not the hardware!! That's the part of this system that's doing the deed!! Why is there NOBODY EVER on the correct angle of attack with these tech companies?? This is how they ALL sell more hardware upgrades! Microsoft has been at this like a damn pro since Windows 98! Laziness in development of code base equals excuse to promote new CPU sales!! Well beyond the fundamental requirement of "improving" software!
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