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Samsung unwraps Galaxy Note 8.0 to take on Apple's iPad mini - Page 4

post #121 of 165
Quote:
Originally Posted by stelligent View Post

I don't think that only metallic casing confers quality. Plus, Samsung is striving for a uniform design in the Galaxy "family". But the mini is superior in quality all around. The innovation is its design and manufacturing, which is just completely neglected by the technorati. Shame.

 

Apple's use of the metal case is part of the company's determination to build thin but rigid devices and laptops. Torquing of the case during use is the major background cause of other manufacture's lower all around reliability and lower product useful lifetime. So, metallic plastic can make the Samsung "appear" as a quality product, but does not impart that actually to the product. 

 

I believe Apple is in the market for the long haul and not to make a quick kill. Long term success comes from actual quality products; especially to organizations that will own hundreds or thousands. 

"That (the) world is moving so quickly that iOS is already amongst the older mobile operating systems in active development today." — The Verge
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post #122 of 165
Samsung ever unhappy with basic Android has modified it to do clever things with the stylus, virtually ensuring from the outset that OS upgrades will be far and few between. An orphaned device from the outset.
post #123 of 165
Quote:
Originally Posted by realpaulfreeman View Post

Samsung ever unhappy with basic Android has modified it to do clever things with the stylus, virtually ensuring from the outset that OS upgrades will be far and few between. An orphaned device from the outset.

As I recall Samsung has been very good about updating their Note products. They're not Appple level updates but for an Android-based vendor they are great. Selling double digit millions certainly makes that an easier pill to swallow.

They also included APIs so apps could get onboard with supporting the digitizer. That's commendable and I think a big part of the reason these expensive phablets are selling well in certain parts of the world. No other Android-based vendor is doing as much.

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post #124 of 165
Originally Posted by Galbi View Post
You can not do that in any of the the iOS software.  

 

lol, iPhone OS 3.2. The first revision of this app actually had separate windows that you could drag around. I wish I had kept the IPA file of that, but oh well.

 


If the Galaxy Note II is any indication, this should also run up to 16 apps AT ONE TIME. 

 

That is innovation.

 

Ooh, you hear that? It's the Why Should Anyone Care Express, right on time. Choo choo!

 

Seriously, why does this matter? I can run infinity apps at once on my iDevice. It takes just as long to switch between them as it does on this Samsung thing. Why do I want my games running in the background? Why do I want apps wasting cycles in the background when switching to them is just as fast?!

 

And how is multitasking innovation on Samsung's part? Ha!


Originally Posted by hfts View Post
Either prove your BS, or crawl away.

 

It should be fairly simple to out his errors if he's this wrong.

Originally Posted by Marvin

The only thing more insecure than Android’s OS is its userbase.
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Originally Posted by Marvin

The only thing more insecure than Android’s OS is its userbase.
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post #125 of 165
Quote:
Originally Posted by Galbi View Post

 

Since Apple is always regarded as the "brilliant" and "innovative" company, why did'nt they come up with it at first? 

 

It's proven that multi-tasking improves productivity and saves time. That is why people at work have multiple monitors to keep track of different things all at the same time. 

 

On this tablet, you can watch movies (both stream and SD card on a "pop up window" similar to a PIP window in TV's) while surfing the internet and checking email, all at the same time. Not even Google came up with this system on their OS. This is strictly a Samsung thing. 

 

Multitasking on a tablet is pushing boundaries = innovation. 

 

Stop trying to brush it off as something that isnt innovative. Credit needs to be given where its due. 

 

Your response would be 180 degrees from the above given statement if this same feature was available on the Apple's product in the first place. At least, acknowledge that. Then I'll let this one fly by. 

 

It's NOT innovative to support such wild capability as watching a movie and surfing the net at the same time... It's stupidity. Such capability is battery sucking and not what makes the portability experience best. No wonder the Samsung table weighs more, it needs a bigger battery. 

 

Apple stripped a lot of multitasking out of OSX to make iOS agile and less battery hungry. Apple didn't go for glitzy specs that impress geeks, they went for simplicity of use and portability away from a power outlet. I can listen to music until my phone rings, not both. I can listen to music while surfing the net or reading a book, I can watch a movie until my phone rings and not miss a scene when I hang up the phone. Apple supports multitasking when it makes sense to the user.

"That (the) world is moving so quickly that iOS is already amongst the older mobile operating systems in active development today." — The Verge
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post #126 of 165
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post


1) iOS has has multitasking since day 1.

2) Being first with a poorly contrived implementation is not innovation.

3) Apple had side-by-side and overlapping apps (something XEROX-PARC didn't have) many decades ago so your claims that Samsung is first to ever consider such a thing is pretty fucking weak.

4) If Apple does something I think works I'll comment as such just as I do when I think Google, Samsung, et al. Make good strides in a market. As usual you've made a superficial comment that shows nothing innovative, clever or unique, nor show any evidence that having say, two shrinking iPhone apps on a iPhone would be a goo thing for customers.

 

You're not arguing against his points here.  He's referring specifically to side-by-side windows running different apps on a tablet as a native part of the OS.  Beyond that, being the first with any implementation is innovation.  Making that idea work better in the future is refinement.

post #127 of 165
Quote:
Originally Posted by Macky the Macky View Post

 

It's NOT innovative to support such wild capability as watching a movie and surfing the net at the same time... It's stupidity. Such capability is battery sucking and not what makes the portability experience best. No wonder the Samsung table weighs more, it needs a bigger battery. 

 

Apple stripped a lot of multitasking out of OSX to make iOS agile and less battery hungry. Apple didn't go for glitzy specs that impress geeks, they went for simplicity of use and portability away from a power outlet. I can listen to music until my phone rings, not both. I can listen to music while surfing the net or reading a book, I can watch a movie until my phone rings and not miss a scene when I hang up the phone. Apple supports multitasking when it makes sense to the user.

 

Would it be equally stupid to run your email in one window and a browser or a map in the other window?  That sounds like it could be pretty productive.

post #128 of 165
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

 

lol, iPhone OS 3.2. The first revision of this app actually had separate windows that you could drag around. I wish I had kept the IPA file of that, but oh well.

 

 

 

 

That is a standalone app that lets you choose between a limited number of other applications to run together.  Samsung's solution is built into the OS.  Obviously Samsung is not the first company to realize that two windows can be viewed at the same time, but there isn't another mobile OS that offers the same functionality as a part of the system (Windows 8 doesn't allow equal window sizes as far as I know).

post #129 of 165
Quote:
Originally Posted by Galbi View Post

Since Apple is always regarded as the "brilliant" and "innovative" company, why did'nt they come up with it at first? 

It's proven that multi-tasking improves productivity and saves time. That is why people at work have multiple monitors to keep track of different things all at the same time. 

On this tablet, you can watch movies (both stream and SD card on a "pop up window" similar to a PIP window in TV's) while surfing the internet and checking email, all at the same time. Not even Google came up with this system on their OS. This is strictly a Samsung thing. 

Multitasking on a tablet is pushing boundaries = innovation. 

Stop trying to brush it off as something that isnt innovative. Credit needs to be given where its due. 

Your response would be 180 degrees from the above given statement if this same feature was available on the Apple's product in the first place. At least, acknowledge that. Then I'll let this one fly by. 

this multi window is one of those things i don't understand.. trying to do so but if given an example of a movie and texting done altogether, it causes more confusion to me... personally, i would rather have the movie paused before doing anything else... if it was a different show, say, a cooking one where i want to get the recipe, then it would be useful as i will have the show playing on and the notepad app running as well and me taking down notes.. however... most of those cooking shows would have their own website and recipes are already posted.. so apart from my example i really couldn't find any combination that'll will benefit the user..

furthermore i only have 2 eyes.. unfortunately for me, i can only use my 2 eyes at the same time focusing on just one object... i find some Samsung users lucky as they seem to have each of their eye be looking at 2 different things at the same time..
post #130 of 165
Quote:
Originally Posted by currentinterest View Post

Better be priced at least $100 less than the mini if it wants any traction at all. And why no Retina level display? Where is the innovation? Oh yeah, those criticisms are reserved for Apple.

I don't know how much a spec is in terms of an innovation.  A screen size to me wouldn't classify as an innovation.  Certain functionality does, IF it's functionality that drastically changes things.  I don't see any drastic anything other than just a bigger screen sized Note, which only is going to sell about 10 to 12 million units in a 12 month period, which isn't that many.

 

I don't know what Samsung is doing other than just having all of these different sized versions of essentially the same thing.

post #131 of 165
domJoly_1431416c.jpg

Thanks Samsung for making this a reality 1smile.gif
post #132 of 165
Quote:
Originally Posted by Galbi View Post

 

<...>

 

It's proven that multi-tasking improves productivity and saves time. That is why people at work have multiple monitors to keep track of different things all at the same time. 

 

<...>

 

 

 

 

Sorry to be pedantic, but I think there is a mistake here. Multitask refers to parallelism capability, on the device (HW/SW) side. It is not necessarily associated to multiwindow.

 

For example, iTunes can run several tasks in parallel. These tasks have of course been launched by the user, but not at the same time (although they execute in parallel), and without a need for separate windows displayed at once.

 

« Multithread » is the right expression to designate parallelism on the user input side (= i.e. within the user's brain, not within the computer).

 

Indeed, although we are inherently limited by human body design (we only have two hands , etc …) , a user may run several courses of actions at the same time (e g talk on the Phone and drive his car (although it is forbidden in most countries).

 

The degree of such multithread capabilities may vary, according to the intellectual capabilities of the user, as well as his degree of training (most extreme case being probably the fighter pilots).

 

Such multithread capabilities increase mental workload/stress, and, apart from exceptional cases (yes, a fighter pilot must at the same time run its plane, check whether he is attacked, and possibly attack) cannot be justified in normal cases, since the popular wisdom says that if you try to do too many things at once, you just fail at all ...

 

In the example you mention, there is multitask (all monitors are refreshed in parallel), but no true multithread (the user does not interact within all these windows at once). Without this capability, you cannot claim multitask alone increases his productivity. His productivity depends on his agility to focus from one window to another (the fact that they are displayed in parallel being a necessary, but not sufficient condition for this).

 

If your point was to advocate for multi window capability only on a portable device, it is weakened by the fact that you use an example where you do not just have multiple windows, but multiple monitors, which is different ....


Edited by umrk_lab - 2/25/13 at 1:27am
post #133 of 165
Quote:
Originally Posted by Apple ][ View Post

... And does it only come in girly white?

 

Would I be right in thinking that your iDevice is in super-heterosexual-masculine black? I mean you wouldn't want people to think that you were ... well, you know ...

 

1confused.gif

post #134 of 165

I remember the days when the Android fans sites used to discuss Apple products.... now days they don't even bother and AI can't get enough of Android. Maybe this site should be called Android Insider.

 

Karma is a bitch!

post #135 of 165
Originally Posted by petrosy View Post
I remember the days when the Android fans sites used to discuss Apple products…. now days they don't even bother…

 

Yeah, because they come here and troll. What "karma"?

Originally Posted by Marvin

The only thing more insecure than Android’s OS is its userbase.
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Originally Posted by Marvin

The only thing more insecure than Android’s OS is its userbase.
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post #136 of 165
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

 

Yeah, because they come here and troll. What "karma"?

They were "invited" to come troll here because AI posted an article about a new Android device.  That's exactly what AI wanted - more visitors, more clicks, more ad revenue.  No karma, just $$.

 

The more you stir sh*t, the more it stinks.

post #137 of 165
Quote:
Originally Posted by Galbi View Post

It's proven that multi-tasking improves productivity and saves time. 

 

The thing is, humans aren't actually good at multitasking. And, interestingly, recent research indicates that those who think they are good multitaskers, tend to be worse at it than those who don't think they are, and that multitasking (as opposed to being engaged in a complex task) tends to diminish overall productivity. So, maybe what Samsung came up with here, to the contrary of what they claim in their ads, is a way to kill your productivity on a tablet, phablet or phone.

post #138 of 165
Originally Posted by anonymouse View Post
So, maybe what Samsung came up with here, to the contrary of what they claim in their ads, is a way to kill your productivity on a tablet, phablet or phone.

 

And battery life, enjoyment, etc.

Originally Posted by Marvin

The only thing more insecure than Android’s OS is its userbase.
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Originally Posted by Marvin

The only thing more insecure than Android’s OS is its userbase.
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post #139 of 165
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post


So can the iPad. So can my Mac Pro. It's a phone? I realize that hefting around a ghetto blaster that took twelve D batteries was hip in the '80s and early '90s, but a Mac Pro on one shoulder would take the cake. You'd wind up looking like this:

 

 

You don't need to hold the tablet or Mac Pro up to your shoulder just use a dorky blue tooth headset.  It's not for everyone but would certainly work for a lot of people.

For that matter, I wear hearing aids and I can get ones that are blue tooth so I wouldn't even have to wear the dorky headset.

post #140 of 165
Quote:
Originally Posted by hfts View Post

Just like you right ?

The post about penis sizes was so funny (not). Is this what you call research ?

And how do you know he didn't do the research?

post #141 of 165
Quote:
Originally Posted by tjwal View Post

You don't need to hold the tablet or Mac Pro up to your shoulder just use a dorky blue tooth headset.  It's not for everyone but would certainly work for a lot of people.

For that matter, I wear hearing aids and I can get ones that are blue tooth so I wouldn't even have to wear the dorky headset.

 

You still need to carry the tablet around with you. Some people don't care about this, but I briefly owned the Note 2 and learned to resent it, and that's just 5.5". I can't imagine carrying around a 7-8" tablet-phone.

2011 Macbook Pro, 2012 Macbook Air, iPhone 5, iPad 4

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post #142 of 165
Quote:
Originally Posted by anonymouse View Post

 

The thing is, humans aren't actually good at multitasking. And, interestingly, recent research indicates that those who think they are good multitaskers, tend to be worse at it than those who don't think they are, and that multitasking (as opposed to being engaged in a complex task) tends to diminish overall productivity. So, maybe what Samsung came up with here, to the contrary of what they claim in their ads, is a way to kill your productivity on a tablet, phablet or phone.

There are many times I wished I could have two windows side by side on the iPad.  They both don't need to be running, but I do need to see what is on the screen of both.  Having to switch back and forth between two apps is a PITA.

post #143 of 165
Originally Posted by tjwal View Post
You don't need to hold the tablet or Mac Pro up to your shoulder just use a dorky blue tooth headset.  It's not for everyone but would certainly work for a lot of people.

For that matter, I wear hearing aids and I can get ones that are blue tooth so I wouldn't even have to wear the dorky headset.

 

Take note, Soli; Bluetooth headsets have been downgraded to 'dorky'. That's a pretty big step for them, considering. lol.gif

Originally Posted by Marvin

The only thing more insecure than Android’s OS is its userbase.
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Originally Posted by Marvin

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post #144 of 165
Quote:
Originally Posted by guaihu View Post

 

You still need to carry the tablet around with you. Some people don't care about this, but I briefly owned the Note 2 and learned to resent it, and that's just 5.5". I can't imagine carrying around a 7-8" tablet-phone.

You're correct that you would have to carry the tablet with you all the time, but a lot of business people do just that.

post #145 of 165
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bondm16 View Post

 

I don't wish to sound critical but saying that Samsung wouldn't be making any tablets in any size, if it wasn't for the iPad is like saying Audi wouldn't be making cars if it wasn't for Henry Ford. The iPad was not the first tablet.  Anyone remember this:

 

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-1381528/Knight-Ridder-tablet-looks-just-like-iPad-17-YEARS-OLD.html

 

This is my first post in a discussion so forgive me if ive done something wrong.

Not at all! Post away! No one argues that apple made the first tablet. They have been out there for years in various flavors. Apple was the first to get it right in terms GUI/hardware that made it a viable platform. Just like they did with with the first ipod and the iphone/smartphone. These wern't firsts, just market changing!

post #146 of 165
Is that bulge in the top middle of the back the camera? This thing will wobble like crazy when laid on a flat surface. That alone would be a deal breaker for me. Bad design...again!
post #147 of 165
Quote:
Originally Posted by tjwal View Post

You're correct that you would have to carry the tablet with you all the time, but a lot of business people do just that.

 

Understood, but I can think of many situations where I would not want to carry an 8" phone around with me. Business people are not always at work. Imagine taking a jog with a Note 8. Perhaps I could switch out the SIM card to a dumbphone or another smartphone, but now you're adding complications.

 

I admit that this is just my preference, though I'd like to hear from people who used the old 7" Galaxy Tab that doubled as a phone if they got sick of it.

2011 Macbook Pro, 2012 Macbook Air, iPhone 5, iPad 4

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post #148 of 165
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacCad View Post

Is that bulge in the top middle of the back the camera? This thing will wobble like crazy when laid on a flat surface. That alone would be a deal breaker for me. Bad design...again!

 

It would certainly look funny if you would carry it in your breast pocket. 1wink.gif

post #149 of 165
Quote:
Originally Posted by tjwal View Post

There are many times I wished I could have two windows side by side on the iPad.  They both don't need to be running, but I do need to see what is on the screen of both.  Having to switch back and forth between two apps is a PITA.

 

Maybe, although, it's not really that much of a pain, I do it all the time. But it makes things more confusing and complicated for many people, and it doesn't come without a cost to at least battery life, and there's certainly no evidence available that it will generally increase productivity on tablets, let alone phones. As for the 16 app nonsense, I can state without fear of being contradicted by future evidence, that running 16 apps at once, all visible on the screen, will definitely decrease productivity on a tablet.

 

Also, when we talk about multitasking on "desktop computers" that often doesn't involve having every open window entirely visible, but requires bringing different windows to the foreground to work with them. This idea that for multitasking on a tablet to be "real", all open apps must be simultaneously visible is entirely misguided. But, then, consider the source.

post #150 of 165
"Re-entry" Since when were they barred?
post #151 of 165
"It's NOT innovative to support such wild capability as watching a movie and surfing the net at the same time." Yup, Windows 3.1 did that so it is simply removing that heavy layer of dust from current computing technology
post #152 of 165
Quote:
Originally Posted by aBeliefSystem View Post

"It's NOT innovative to support such wild capability as watching a movie and surfing the net at the same time."

Yup, Windows 3.1 did that so it is simply removing that heavy layer of dust from current computing technology

What the dissenters are pooh-poohing Apple for is what finally made the tablet market successful after decades of abject failure. You could run as many apps as you wish on you Win tablets since the 90s but it was a pointless pursuit.

Now these same people who said the iPad would fail are still claiming it's a failure because it can't run 15 videos at once in the background while you watch a YouTube video of a cat playing the piano.



Edit: typos and uh-ohs.
Edited by SolipsismX - 2/25/13 at 11:13am

"The real haunted empire?  It's the New York Times." ~SockRolid

"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

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"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

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post #153 of 165

Samsung make the Note a smartphone because it can get generous subsidy from the carriers to make it look like a cheap deal to users.  I doubt most Note users actually use it for a phone.  I think it is much better to use a cellular capable tablet together with a feature phone.  In this aspect I think Apple should introduce a cheap feature phone that is tightly integrated will the iPad instead of a cheap iPhone. 
 

post #154 of 165
A giant phone with a giant phone BILL.

No thanks.

The data only iPad mini would be a far, far cheaper solution. Though truth be told i've used my iPad's cellular data capability a whopping three times since I received it shortly after it's release so my next iPad isn't going to bother: that's what my iPhone is for,
post #155 of 165
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfc1138 View Post

A giant phone with a giant phone BILL.

No thanks.

The data only iPad mini would be a far, far cheaper solution. Though truth be told i've used my iPad's cellular data capability a whopping three times since I received it shortly after it's release so my next iPad isn't going to bother: that's what my iPhone is for,

I think I'm going to cancel my Verizon shared plan to save $10/month and just tether from my Verizon iPhone as needed. Since last June my iPad says it's only registered about 500MB over cellular. Ad next time I'll likely consider a WiFi only model, as well as only 16GB as barely use any of my 64GB as it is.
Edited by SolipsismX - 2/25/13 at 11:34am

"The real haunted empire?  It's the New York Times." ~SockRolid

"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

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"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

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post #156 of 165

To paraphrase Steve Jobs, "if you see a stylus, they blew it."

 

Of course, if you really, truly want a stylus for your iPad or iPad mini, there are umpteen third-party styli available.  Most of which are excellent.  Knock yourself out.

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post #157 of 165
Quote:
Originally Posted by SockRolid View Post

To paraphrase Steve Jobs, "if you see a stylus, they blew it."

Of course, if you really, truly want a stylus for your iPad or iPad mini, there are umpteen third-party styli available.  Most of which are excellent.  Knock yourself out.

But it's still just interacting with a capacitance display, not a digitizer.

I think Steve's quote is more simplistic than he probably intended for the long run. I don't think he meant to imply that the finger is better for every task that a stylus could do, but that the primary interaction should be your fingers and not be reliant upon a stylus. I hope that Apple does incorporate a digitizer once 1) the price comes down (look at Galaxy Note MSRPs), 2) power level is low enough to make it feasible (this appears to already be here), and 3) there are APIs that make this integrate well with the OS and App Store apps to make it as seamless as being able to scribe a math equation and then flip a page in a workbook.

"The real haunted empire?  It's the New York Times." ~SockRolid

"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

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"The real haunted empire?  It's the New York Times." ~SockRolid

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post #158 of 165
Quote:
Originally Posted by spacerays View Post

" Samsung already has devices in sizes 1.5, 1.8, 1.9, 2, 2.2, 2.3, 2.4, 2.8, 3, 3.1, 3.2, 3.5, 3.7, 4, 4.3, 4.5, 4.7, 4.8, 5.0, 5.3, 5.5, 5.8, 7.0, 7.7, 8.9, and 10.1. Why not add another to the pile. Talk about fragmentation :P "


" It isn't fragmentation, it's consumer choice. "


(Oh my ...)

It looks like they need fillers for 1 inch, 6.2 inch, 8 inch (now coming), 9.5 inch, 10.5 inch up, proably all coming soon at Samsung rate, yet apple has them at 1.5, 2.5, 3.5, 4, 7.9, 9.7 inch which makes them a lot more standard on there sizes
post #159 of 165
Quote:
Originally Posted by .....

Is Samsung incapable of ever coming up with an original idea?!

 

This is Samsung actually offering something *different* and I applaud them for it. These pen-based devices are what artists have been begging for and Apple has seemed less than interested in stepping up to the plate. The Note 8 does not resemble the iPad mini in anything beyond general shape of the form factor. The unoriginal thing in this thread is the typical fanboy responses like the one quoted. It's a joke reading comments like these.

post #160 of 165
Quote:
Originally Posted by SockRolid View Post

To paraphrase Steve Jobs, "if you see a stylus, they blew it."

 

Of course, if you really, truly want a stylus for your iPad or iPad mini, there are umpteen third-party styli available.  Most of which are excellent.  Knock yourself out.

 

I'm sorry, but this is simply inaccurate.

 

Look at the tip of a Wacom pen and compare that to the synthetic fingertips you're calling styluses. I've never met an artist that finds these multitouch styluses even adequate let alone "excellent". Those nipple pens are for casual users, they at best provide an experience slightly better than what people expect from *CAPACITIVE* input. A pen digitizer is completely different technology from multitouch and offers much more control and accuracy. You cannot emulate this with current multitouch technology. As someone that owns a Cintiq and iPad, I can tell you there is no comparison. Samsung's S-Pen is not wacom quality (yet) but, with some adjustment, it's getting closer and I expect it will continue to improve.

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