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Apple joins coalition of U.S. corporations to support same-sex marriage

post #1 of 192
Thread Starter 
Apple has reportedly joined a group of high-power companies, including Apple, Morgan Stanley, Facebook and Intel, among others, are planning on making a case to the U.S. Supreme Court in support of the nationwide legalization of same-sex marriage.



The group, which Bloomberg says is made of "dozens of companies," will reportedly tell the nation's highest court that same-sex marriage bans in 41 states harm workplace morale and negatively impact employee recruitment operations.

The Supreme Court is scheduled to begin deliberation on California's passage of Proposition 8, a 2008 initiative that banned gay marriage in the state. Apple previously donated $100,000 to fight Prop 8 in October of 2008.

Apple will be joined by about 60 companies in its Prop 8 brief, including Abercrombie & Fitch Co., EBay Inc., Marsh & McLennan Cos., NCR Corp., Nike Inc., Oracle Corp., Office Depot Inc., Panasonic Corp., Qualcomm Inc., Sun Life Financial Inc., Xerox Corp. and Zynga Inc.

The court is slated to being hearings for two separate cases regarding the matter on March 26 and 27.
post #2 of 192
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post

The group, which Bloomberg says is made of "dozens of companies," will reportedly tell the nation's highest court that same-sex marriage bans in 41 states harm workplace morale and negatively impact employee recruitment operations.

While I support their efforts, I'm having a hard time seeing how it can affect employee recruitment. If everyone in the state has to follow the same rules, how does it hurt recruitment?

Granted, it MIGHT affect the ability to hire if gay people were to move en mass to states that allow gay marriage, but I haven't seen any evidence that that is really happening.
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post #3 of 192

How sad. Now the homophobes will have to boycott Apple products.  Can't drink Starbucks, wear Nike shoes, use MS Windows and on and on and on.

All I can say is "quit the hating".
 

post #4 of 192
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta View Post


While I support their efforts, I'm having a hard time seeing how it can affect employee recruitment. If everyone in the state has to follow the same rules, how does it hurt recruitment?

 

It does affect international recruitment in instances where someone is unable to bring their partner to the states because of the lack of formal recognition of their relationship.

post #5 of 192

Let's get the government out of the way and let the corporations get on and run this country.

post #6 of 192
Quote:
Originally Posted by DerekMelb View Post

Let's get the government out of the way and let the corporations get on and run this country.

Right on! No more of that pesky voting.
post #7 of 192

Why doesn't Apple support the legalization of marijuana?

 

I'm not gay, and weed is a more important issue for me than gay marriage.

post #8 of 192
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dunks View Post

It does affect international recruitment in instances where someone is unable to bring their partner to the states because of the lack of formal recognition of their relationship.

Why would that prevent the partner from coming, anyway? It's not like they're going to get thrown in jail for being gay.

The only thing it really affects is that the partner couldn't be on the employee's medical plan, but it's generally possible to get insurance even as an individual - and will be even more possible under the new health care rules. And the people that Apple is likely to relocate from overseas make enough that the additional premium wouldn't be that big a factor in the decision. And even that isn't necessary - Apple can offer insurance to same sex partners even if the state doesn't recognize gay marriage - so I'm still wondering how it impacts recruiting.

Besides, I believe that most states (even those that don't allow gay marriage) will recognize marriages that are enacted somewhere else.
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post #9 of 192
Four and a bit years on from Apple's opposition to California's prop 8, it'll be interesting to see how this thread develops versus the thread back then. Will there be fewer homophobes posting this time around?
it's = it is / it has, its = belonging to it.
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it's = it is / it has, its = belonging to it.
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post #10 of 192
"Not touching this with a ten foot clown pole."

"Apple should pull the plug on the iPhone."

John C. Dvorak, 2007
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"Apple should pull the plug on the iPhone."

John C. Dvorak, 2007
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post #11 of 192
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta View Post


Why would that prevent the partner from coming, anyway? It's not like they're going to get thrown in jail for being gay.

The only thing it really affects is that the partner couldn't be on the employee's medical plan, but it's generally possible to get insurance even as an individual - and will be even more possible under the new health care rules. And the people that Apple is likely to relocate from overseas make enough that the additional premium wouldn't be that big a factor in the decision. And even that isn't necessary - Apple can offer insurance to same sex partners even if the state doesn't recognize gay marriage - so I'm still wondering how it impacts recruiting.

Besides, I believe that most states (even those that don't allow gay marriage) will recognize marriages that are enacted somewhere else.

 



That just goes to show how most people know nothing about the issues yet never shy away from having an opinion.

 

1) Partner immigration status: anybody can visit the US, but if you want to stay on a long-term basis and possibly be able to work, you need a non-immigrant worker visa or a green card. Same sex partners are not extended the privileges that heterosexual married spouses receive. So yes, the same sex partner could come visit, but would have to leave after three months. Extended stays would be likely to attract attention and get this person denied entry. They would also not be allowed to work.

 

2) States that do not allow gay marriage do not recognize gay marriages contracted in another state or country.

 

These are facts. You're welcome.

post #12 of 192
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. H View Post

Will there be fewer homophobes posting this time around?

 

This same thread on Mac Rumors was labeled:

Please keep the discussion civil or the discussion thread will be closed.

 

Fortunately, I think the Chick-fil-a crowd has thinned since then. They can join Fred Phelps on his journey to irrelevance.

post #13 of 192
Young heterosexuals see gay-inclusive policies as evidence that the potential employer respects their privacy and won't mess around in their private lives. Accordingly, the greatest benefit to a company with gay-inclusive policies is that it is easier to recruit talented straights.

I volunteer at a retirement home. None of the residents have expressed any opposition to gay marriage, and several are very vocal in their support. Even the ones in motorized wheelchairs. I am beginning to think we have more support than we realize.
post #14 of 192
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta View Post


Why would that prevent the partner from coming, anyway? It's not like they're going to get thrown in jail for being gay.

The only thing it really affects is that the partner couldn't be on the employee's medical plan, but it's generally possible to get insurance even as an individual - and will be even more possible under the new health care rules. And the people that Apple is likely to relocate from overseas make enough that the additional premium wouldn't be that big a factor in the decision. And even that isn't necessary - Apple can offer insurance to same sex partners even if the state doesn't recognize gay marriage - so I'm still wondering how it impacts recruiting.

Besides, I believe that most states (even those that don't allow gay marriage) will recognize marriages that are enacted somewhere else.

 

Most countries will give the wife/husband a visa to move with the worker without having to have a job. But not so with gay partnerships.

 

frankly I am torn on this issue. Personally I feel like legally they should be allowed the same rights as straight couples, whether any couple is married or just a domestic partnership. All should be the same. Let them go to city hall and certify said relationship if they like, it's basically only a legal maneuver anyway.

 

as for the churches, if they want to keep the word marriage and say no to gays, whatever. Let them have their hate. No gay should want to be a part of that anyway. And heck of L Ron can start a church why can't the gays. Call it the Church of the Rainbow and have at their marriages etc. 

A non tech's thoughts on Apple stuff 

(She's family so I'm a little biased)

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A non tech's thoughts on Apple stuff 

(She's family so I'm a little biased)

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post #15 of 192
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta View Post


While I support their efforts, I'm having a hard time seeing how it can affect employee recruitment. If everyone in the state has to follow the same rules, how does it hurt recruitment?

Granted, it MIGHT affect the ability to hire if gay people were to move en mass to states that allow gay marriage, but I haven't seen any evidence that that is really happening.

 

It partially has to do with employee benefits. Many of the States make it illegal for companies to provide same sex benefits, such as health care. So a person who wants those benefits might decide to work for a company in a state that allows such things. In Michigan, many companies and government institutions provided same sex medical coverage, but a Constitutional Amendment disallowed it. 

 

Moreover, people want to live in places that respect them, and recognize their union. 

post #16 of 192
Quote:
Originally Posted by charlituna View Post

 

Most countries will give the wife/husband a visa to move with the worker without having to have a job. But not so with gay partnerships.

 

frankly I am torn on this issue. Personally I feel like legally they should be allowed the same rights as straight couples, whether any couple is married or just a domestic partnership. All should be the same. Let them go to city hall and certify said relationship if they like, it's basically only a legal maneuver anyway.

 

as for the churches, if they want to keep the word marriage and say no to gays, whatever. Let them have their hate. No gay should want to be a part of that anyway. And heck of L Ron can start a church why can't the gays. Call it the Church of the Rainbow and have at their marriages etc. 

 

 

That is how a free society should operate. If two people of the same sex want to marry, why should the government have any say? Religious institutions should be free to voice their displeasure, but such views shouldn't be recognized by governments. 

post #17 of 192
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta View Post


Besides, I believe that most states (even those that don't allow gay marriage) will recognize marriages that are enacted somewhere else.

It is supposed to work that way under the constitution, but sadly states aren't cooperating. 

post #18 of 192
jragosta

Actually states that typically have the lowest levels of approval of gay rights tend to have the lowest percentage of homosexuals, or at least those who are willing to declare themselves homosexual.

As for international, its easy to get a permit to work in the US, and then to file and eventually become a US citizen if you are in a sought after profession. But that doesn't mean your unrecognized partner would be allowed to travel with you. And if you became a citizen, you still would be unable to bring your gay spouse with you. If you had happened to live in one of the dozen or so countries that allow gay marriage.
post #19 of 192
Quote:
Originally Posted by Apple ][ View Post

Why doesn't Apple support the legalization of marijuana?

 

I'm not gay, and weed is a more important issue for me than gay marriage.

Perhaps because the CEO of Apple is gay as well as approximately 10% of their workforce..  Futhermore, as Apple/Steve Jobs stated when they donated $100,000 to the No on Prop 8 campaign,  "We believe this is a human rights issue, not a political issue."

post #20 of 192
This CNN story exemplifies why this issue is important to many companies and their ability to keep and recruit some of their best employees:
http://amanpour.blogs.cnn.com/2013/02/22/gay-americans-forced-to-choose-between-love-and-country/
post #21 of 192
Let them be free to love & marry!!!
post #22 of 192
Companies should stay out of politics - leave the polarization to the politicians and special interest groups.
post #23 of 192
Good for Apple! And many others.

Having lived in a state where the religious fringe used lies and ignorance to temporarily REDUCE gay rights, I recall a lot of pro-human-rights opposition from big employers.

Get government--AND other people's religions--OUT of people's healthy and loving relationships!
post #24 of 192
Quote:
Originally Posted by TBell View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by charlituna View Post

 

Most countries will give the wife/husband a visa to move with the worker without having to have a job. But not so with gay partnerships.

 

frankly I am torn on this issue. Personally I feel like legally they should be allowed the same rights as straight couples, whether any couple is married or just a domestic partnership. All should be the same. Let them go to city hall and certify said relationship if they like, it's basically only a legal maneuver anyway.

 

as for the churches, if they want to keep the word marriage and say no to gays, whatever. Let them have their hate. No gay should want to be a part of that anyway. And heck of L Ron can start a church why can't the gays. Call it the Church of the Rainbow and have at their marriages etc. 

 

 

That is how a free society should operate. If two people of the same sex want to marry, why should the government have any say? Religious institutions should be free to voice their displeasure, but such views shouldn't be recognized by governments. 

Wait a minute. What are you saying? That there should be some kind of separation between the state and religion??! that sounds wackadoodle.

post #25 of 192
Quote:
Originally Posted by TBell View Post

That is how a free society should operate. If two people of the same sex want to marry, why should the government have any say?

 

Agreed. And, conversely, no one should be forced to submit to any governmental policies that would violate their personal religious beliefs either.

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by TBell View Post

Religious institutions should be free to voice their displeasure,

 

Of course. They should also be free to not marry or recognize marriages that do not conform to their religious beliefs.

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by TBell View Post

...but such views shouldn't be recognized by governments. 

 

This goes too far. I'd say their views should be recognized equally as much as any other views. No more, no less.

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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post #26 of 192
I don't like apple as a company supporting this or getting involved. Tim Cook wants to give his personal money fine. But as a share holder apple should stick to making great products.
post #27 of 192

I don't understand... all through the late 60's and into the 90's liberals were calling marriage an outdated institution. Preaching free love and cohabitation. Now every liberal wants in on marriage. Go figure. I wished they would make up their minds and stick to it. Geez....

post #28 of 192
"Apple has reportedly joined a group of high-power companies, including Apple, Morgan Stanley, Facebook and Intel, among others, are planning on making a case to the U.S. Supreme Court in support of the nationwide legalization of same-sex marriage."

Putting aside all the issues, that opening sentence is one of the worst I have ever read on AppleInsider.
1. Apple is joining a group including Apple.
2. The group includes among others.
3. Apple has joined a group are....

by AppleInsider Staff!
post #29 of 192
Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ1970 View Post

 

Agreed. And, conversely, no one should be forced to submit to any governmental policies that would violate their personal religious beliefs either.

 

Life isn't that black and white. There's plenty of instances where the law must come before religious freedom. For example, you wouldn't let a Sikh person carry a knife (one of their religious symbols) on an airplane, would you?

post #30 of 192
Quote:
Originally Posted by RichL View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ1970 View Post

Agreed. And, conversely, no one should be forced to submit to any governmental policies that would violate their personal religious beliefs either.

Life isn't that black and white. There's plenty of instances where the law must come before religious freedom. For example, you wouldn't let a Sikh person carry a knife (one of their religious symbols) on an airplane, would you?
Let me introduce you to MJ.

HE WOULD.

As long as the owner of the airplane lets him, I should say. And a gun. A bomb. Without having to inform other passengers.

For MJ, personal liberty trumps all. Period. Even liberty that puts others at risk. You see for MJ, there is no such a concept of risk, at least not one that's legislatable.
post #31 of 192

Sad that an issue of equality gets reduced to practicalities of low morale and recruitment to justify doing the right thing.

 

Nevertheless, good on Apple.

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post #32 of 192
Quote:
Originally Posted by Crowley View Post

Sad that an issue of equality gets reduced to practicalities of low morale and recruitment to justify doing the right thing.

Nevertheless, good on Apple.
You can't argue "doing the right thing" to conservatives. It's easy to understand why money is a better approach.
post #33 of 192

Do conservatives care about the morale and employability of gay people?

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post #34 of 192
The world is sinking into filthy decadence, and the crowds are cheering. Since biblical times...

What's the next big thing? Legalising sadomasochism "because they have needs, too"?
post #35 of 192
Quote:
Originally Posted by tonton View Post

You can't argue "doing the right thing" to conservatives. It's easy to understand why money is a better approach.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Crowley View Post

Do conservatives care about the morale and employability of gay people?

Conservatives don't care about anything but:
1. Enriching their corporations (especially oil and gas companies).
2. Interfering with anything that the President tries to do - even if it was something that the conservatives were pushing just a few years ago.
3. Trying to return to the era where white males were the only ones who mattered or had any voice in decision-making.
4. Returning women to the kitchen and bedroom.
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Gatorguy 5/31/13
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post #36 of 192
Quote:
Originally Posted by Crowley View Post

Do conservatives care about the morale and employability of gay people?
When it affects the bottom line, they might. And that's exactly the point.
post #37 of 192
Quote:
Originally Posted by kcartesius View Post

The world is sinking into filthy decadence, and the crowds are cheering. Since biblical times...

What's the next big thing? Legalising sadomasochism "because they have needs, too"?
This is laughable.

First of all, there are no laws against sadomasochism. Secondly, why does it concern you what others do in their bedroom when it affects neither other individuals nor society in any negative way whatsoever?
post #38 of 192
Quote:
Originally Posted by kcartesius View Post

What's the next big thing? Legalising sadomasochism "because they have needs, too"?

 

Has that ever been illegal?  Why are you so concerned with what happens in other people's bedrooms?

 

EDIT: It appears I am a parrot.

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post #39 of 192
Quote:
Originally Posted by kcartesius View Post

<...>

What's the next big thing? Legalising sadomasochism "because they have needs, too"?

 

 

Not "needs", but "demands", in this case !

post #40 of 192
Sigh... people are going to do what they are going to do. I dislike relativism with a passion.

W. Pauli, winner of the Nobel prize in physics, said that all scientific methods fail when questions of origin are involved.


http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=z6kgvhG3AkI

http://www.answersingenesis.org...

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W. Pauli, winner of the Nobel prize in physics, said that all scientific methods fail when questions of origin are involved.


http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=z6kgvhG3AkI

http://www.answersingenesis.org...

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