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Rotten rumors of impossible Apple stock split helps fund manager clear profits - Page 2

post #41 of 70

It's not a game when real people's money, retirement and well-being is on the line.

post #42 of 70
Quote:
Originally Posted by jkichline View Post

It's not a game when real people's money, retirement and well-being is on the line.

I'm not defending any of the douchebags and stock manipulators, but if the stock market is too much risk for some people, then they should put their money into other less risky investments and be happy with less return.

post #43 of 70
PS: today was a rather cheap reminder that %u201Ca fool and his money are soon parted.%u201D

Apple's stock price bounces up and down all the time and most of the time there are empty rumors behind the movements. Although historically stock splits are taken as an indicator of the company's future success, our fine host reminds us correctly that it doesn't substantially change the company fundamentals, nor investors' costs of trading one billionth of the company, by as much as a whisker.

So a rumor of a non-impactful action might get short-term traders all in a lather; long-termers can happily watch the Roller Derby type action without worrying about getting run over.
post #44 of 70
It's no wonder the American economy is so messed up. Only the people with the money can make more money. Someone really ought to do something about those freaking hedge funds. Anyway, the article confirmed my suspicious that Wall Street is made up of crooks and liars. It's also a shame that so many people listen to these fabricated rumors. Whether it's for Apple's benefit or not, I don't think it's a good thing to be spreading lies to fool investors.
post #45 of 70

The problem is options. They have deviated so far from their original intent that they are a nonsense.

They should be scrapped.

Fair enough in yesteryear when you needed to be able to ensure a supply of physical product.

 

These days it's just a fcuking joke. Hedge funds all returning 20-30% due to manipulation - yet options affects common stock! Bright eyed and highly qualified  from Cornell and Yale and from wherever earning millions working the middle. Contributing nothing.

imo only of course.

post #46 of 70
Quote:
Originally Posted by jkichline View Post

It's not a game when real people's money, retirement and well-being is on the line.

 

Any investor even thinking about retirement should be in something low-risk with yield.  Not tech stocks.  I've got a ton of money in stocks right now, but I'm 28 years old... 

 

It's idiotic to be trading money that you need for your retirement and/or well-being...  

post #47 of 70

1000:1 split, one trillion 40c shares, now that would shake things up.

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post #48 of 70
And this is the system that the world's financial well-being depends on. Nothing "remotely truthful". How is this allowed to continue?
post #49 of 70
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta View Post

A stock split makes a lot of sense. "Those people shouldn't invest in Apple" is an incredibly ridiculous (not to mention elitist and arrogant) attitude. And it's not just the people who only have $1,000 to invest who get priced out of AAPL. What about the person who wants to set aside $300 per month to buy shares regularly (income averaging). Can't do it with a stock that's $500.

There's another factor that often gets ignored. Something like 70% of AAPL is owned by institutions - just the type of investors who are quick to buy or sell. Each time another of these silly rumors pops up, the stock gets hammered because of the speed at which institutional investors pull the trigger. Individual investors are more likely to take their time - so Apple should be encouraging individual ownership. A 10:1 split (or a series of 2:1 splits) would do that.

Bolded: noone... meaning an actual breathing person... is pulling any triggers these days. It's all done through networked computers and tweaked mathematical algorithms.
Knowing what you are talking about would help you understand why you are so wrong. By "Realistic" - AI Forum Member
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Knowing what you are talking about would help you understand why you are so wrong. By "Realistic" - AI Forum Member
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post #50 of 70
I'm going to state emphatically that I don't condone this blatant market manipulation, nor just about anything regarding the professional gambling den known as Wall Street.

HOWEVER... I do find a number of posters here as being just downright naive about... well... everything, specifically those stating, "those people should be in jail" ..."we need to change the system"... "Someone really ought to do something about those freaking hedge funds." etc. etc. etc.

May I politely ask a few questions.

  1. where were YOU and what were YOU doing during the "Occupy Protests" last year taking place around the world?
  2. do you REALLY think that you will be able to affect change... real change... by voting?
  3. do you still not know beyond a shadow of a doubt, that the people in place making policy are the ones that have been allowed and put into place by the very people and organizations that the policy-maker is supposed to "rule" against?
  4. re: this particular evil person... please do tell which Attorney General, Judge, Court of law would even dare to take a case against him? He along with his buddies OWN the Federal Reserve, banks, rating agencies, and investment houses; OWN Congress, the Admin., and the courts and appointed judges that sit on them; OWN the companies you work for and buy products from... which means, he and his buddies can shut it all down whenever and manipulate it however they want to.


Going back to question 1: historically, unless the people are willing to fight for their inalienable rights over a long period of time (longer than 12 weeks!)... nothing will change. Rather unfortunately... and again historically... unless there are those willing to sacrifice their lives for justice, and others at the very least are willing to get their hands bloody (not just dirty!)... nothing will change.

Posting your frustration on a news/blog/forum is NOT going to change anything...period. 1oyvey.gif
Knowing what you are talking about would help you understand why you are so wrong. By "Realistic" - AI Forum Member
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Knowing what you are talking about would help you understand why you are so wrong. By "Realistic" - AI Forum Member
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post #51 of 70
Quote:
As for the $1,000 amount to invest, it wasn't really about AAPL specifically, but more about stocks in general. It just seems like a tiny amount, and even with a 10% gain for the year, that's only $100 profit, and even less than that after expenses of course. If I only had $1,000 to invest, I think that it would give me greater satisfaction to just blow it on something.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I bought my first shares of Apple with $1000 way back in the late 90s. It was going at $19 a share. That little investment has done quite well for me.

post #52 of 70
Quote:
Originally Posted by tribalogical View Post

I read the linked article. Holy crap, man…. there's something that should simply be illegal. Automated mass manipulation of online social environments for political/financial gain? It takes the concept of propaganda to a whole new level...

I can understand creating personas for intelligence gathering, for security… that makes sense. But like drones, their use must be limited and highly contextual… this becomes a free for all, highly exploitable, and unless it's regulated, too easy to blur the lines of ethical and even criminal behavior...

Thanks for the link though, and I agree, @msuberly contrariness could indeed speak to one of those faux personas...

Am I an idiot? Well perhaps. My contrariness speaks to my investment style, which focuses exclusively on reinvesting monthly or quarterly income. I don't give a shit about stock prices and what the talking heads say about them. In fact if they go up I stand to lose more in future income.

My definition of an idiot is someone who repeated plays a game believing that the competition is at least fair, yet complains when he or she loses every time. He reason I don't play chess against Kasparov is the same reason I don't play the capital gain game.

Have fun with the game, if you are inclined.
post #53 of 70
Well, since the Cramer interview dates from six years ago, it would seem the SEC has no such intention to investigate, sanction or otherwise bring hedge fund managers into line.
When Wall Street laughs, the SEC hides.
post #54 of 70
Quote:
Originally Posted by WaltFrench View Post

PS: today was a rather cheap reminder that %u201Ca fool and his money are soon parted.%u201D

Apple's stock price bounces up and down all the time and most of the time there are empty rumors behind the movements. Although historically stock splits are taken as an indicator of the company's future success, our fine host reminds us correctly that it doesn't substantially change the company fundamentals, nor investors' costs of trading one billionth of the company, by as much as a whisker.

So a rumor of a non-impactful action might get short-term traders all in a lather; long-termers can happily watch the Roller Derby type action without worrying about getting run over.

In theory, you are correct. In practice, though, it often increases the share price by a few percent. The argument is that more people are likely to look at a lower priced stock.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikeb85 View Post

Any investor even thinking about retirement should be in something low-risk with yield.  Not tech stocks.  I've got a ton of money in stocks right now, but I'm 28 years old... 

It's idiotic to be trading money that you need for your retirement and/or well-being...  

No, it's idiotic to be investing without an understanding of finance. At age 28, you should have a variety of investments ranging from low risk/low return to high risk/high return. Classical finance says that your risk profile should be highest when you're young and decrease as you get older.

Now, the percentage you choose to put into high risk investments will vary depending on your risk tolerance and market conditions, but suggesting that a young person avoid the stock market entirely is bad advice.

If your risk tolerance is low, then you might choose to avoid individual stocks, but still invest in index funds. Or even hedged indexed funds.
"I'm way over my head when it comes to technical issues like this"
Gatorguy 5/31/13
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"I'm way over my head when it comes to technical issues like this"
Gatorguy 5/31/13
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post #55 of 70
Well like he said, it is partially Apple's fault for having a "code of silence" regarding rumors. When these things hit, Apple should immediately deny (if not true) and then sue these individuals for some sort of slander on behalf of their shareholders. These people are manipulating the market to literally steal money from others. If anything this would make all those that "shoot from the hip" to think twice about starting false rumors.
Disclaimer: The things I say are merely my own personal opinion and may or may not be based on facts. At certain points in any discussion, sarcasm may ensue.
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Disclaimer: The things I say are merely my own personal opinion and may or may not be based on facts. At certain points in any discussion, sarcasm may ensue.
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post #56 of 70
Quote:
Originally Posted by ThePixelDoc View Post

I'm going to state emphatically that I don't condone this blatant market manipulation, nor just about anything regarding the professional gambling den known as Wall Street.

HOWEVER... I do find a number of posters here as being just downright naive about... well... everything, specifically those stating, "those people should be in jail" ..."we need to change the system"... "Someone really ought to do something about those freaking hedge funds." etc. etc. etc.

May I politely ask a few questions.

  1. where were YOU and what were YOU doing during the "Occupy Protests" last year taking place around the world?
  2. do you REALLY think that you will be able to affect change... real change... by voting?
  3. do you still not know beyond a shadow of a doubt, that the people in place making policy are the ones that have been allowed and put into place by the very people and organizations that the policy-maker is supposed to "rule" against?
  4. re: this particular evil person... please do tell which Attorney General, Judge, Court of law would even dare to take a case against him? He along with his buddies OWN the Federal Reserve, banks, rating agencies, and investment houses; OWN Congress, the Admin., and the courts and appointed judges that sit on them; OWN the companies you work for and buy products from... which means, he and his buddies can shut it all down whenever and manipulate it however they want to.


Going back to question 1: historically, unless the people are willing to fight for their inalienable rights over a long period of time (longer than 12 weeks!)... nothing will change. Rather unfortunately... and again historically... unless there are those willing to sacrifice their lives for justice, and others at the very least are willing to get their hands bloody (not just dirty!)... nothing will change.

Posting your frustration on a news/blog/forum is NOT going to change anything...period. 1oyvey.gif

 

 

However frustrating your comments and views may be, they are oh so true!! Spot on!

post #57 of 70

I am all about free speech and people having an opinion and expressing them. However when guys like this and news make statement which is not base in any fact this is where it has to stop. The news are trying to follow some story line which help them bring in view and people like Krass have vested interest in their comments being heard. In some regard this kind of activity is no different yelling fire in a movie theater and that is not protect speech.

post #58 of 70
I agree. This guy should be in jail, but he's not the only one. I think that the Apple stock has been manipulated since and including its fall. Apple announces record earnings, is one of the most profitable companies in the world, has enormous amounts of cash, is either #1 and #2 in market cap and the stock drops 30%? There were heavy traders betting against this stock.
post #59 of 70
Quote:
Originally Posted by JollyPaul View Post

 

He is a professional lying scumbag. No ethics, no remorse.

Ethics is a dirty word in the world of stocks and funds.  If you want to be successful on Wall Street, you have to be willing to lie, cheat, and steal with a straight face and no conscience.  Amazing that the SEC allows these criminals to get away with it, but the SEC isn't exactly known for ethics either.

post #60 of 70
Quote:
Originally Posted by msuberly View Post

Let the anti-Wall Street whining begin. It's all a game folks, either learn to play or get played. Your choice. It has nothing to do with Apple or any other specific company.

 A game?  You mean like the ones played in Las Vegas?  Casino gambling is no basis for a sound economy.

 

The original purpose of the stock market was to raise capital so corporations could invest in their future.  The nonsense perpetrated by guys like Kramer et. al. is parasitic to a capitalist economy, and we pay the price with severe boom and bust cycles in our economy.  

post #61 of 70
Quote:
Originally Posted by "Apple 
[" url="/t/156189/rotten-rumors-of-impossible-apple-stock-split-helps-fund-manager-clear-profits/30#post_2284570"]I'm not defending any of the douchebags and stock manipulators, but if the stock market is too much risk for some people, then they should put their money into other less risky investments and be happy with less return.
But weed hopper. The drive is for all to have pensions / social security in the market as "private" is always better than any government. So these fine folks have even more $ to manipulate on something we depend upon as we live longer on less. Think about it as the nimrods (including your personal congress critter) want to save you more from the evil government.
post #62 of 70
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta View Post

No, it's idiotic to be investing without an understanding of finance. At age 28, you should have a variety of investments ranging from low risk/low return to high risk/high return. Classical finance says that your risk profile should be highest when you're young and decrease as you get older.

Now, the percentage you choose to put into high risk investments will vary depending on your risk tolerance and market conditions, but suggesting that a young person avoid the stock market entirely is bad advice.

If your risk tolerance is low, then you might choose to avoid individual stocks, but still invest in index funds. Or even hedged indexed funds.

 

Well, last year I doubled up, this year I'm up 20% so far.  All on moderately volatile mid-large cap stocks, mostly on Asian exchanges...  

 

Maybe I should have rephrased and said "It's idiotic to be trading money that you need for your retirement and/or well-being...  in the next few years".  I'm not suggesting a young person avoid the stock market...

 

I do agree with your analysis though.  You should take more risks when you're young, and have time to learn from them, and recover.  And yes, if you are risk-averse, any individual stocks are probably a bad bet, index funds, ETFs, etc..., are likely better choices.  

post #63 of 70
Quote:
Originally Posted by ThePixelDoc View Post

Rather unfortunately... and again historically... unless there are those willing to sacrifice their lives for justice, and others at the very least are willing to get their hands bloody (not just dirty!)... nothing will change.

Posting your frustration on a news/blog/forum is NOT going to change anything...period. 1oyvey.gif

I hope they split the stock, just for psychological reasons. People compare Apple's price to Google's, not considering that Apple has already split ~4 times, last time in 2005. Google hasn't split at all.

 

Jim Cramer should be under investigation. Sheesh they all have the same defense, 'everybody else says these same things I heard it from them'.  Do they all drink at the same bar? Cramer, though, has an obvious mental illness. If you watch the video those quotes are from you can see he is in a manic phase. Note the pressured, rapid speech, much weirder than his usual antics. Maybe he was off his meds.

 

As for Kass et al, aren't any of these guys afraid of other forms of 'foment', like some dude with a weapon coming to visit them? How much longer do they think they can do this shit before some crazy person comes after them? Just asking a rhetorical question...

 

the good news for Apple is that Google is now #1 on the Hedge Funds' list, ha!


Edited by palomine - 2/27/13 at 9:46am
What is really factored into the price is a kind of perpetual sense of disbelief that any company could be as good as Apple is. ~Retrogusto
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What is really factored into the price is a kind of perpetual sense of disbelief that any company could be as good as Apple is. ~Retrogusto
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post #64 of 70
Quote:
Originally Posted by mjtomlin View Post

Well like he said, it is partially Apple's fault for having a "code of silence" regarding rumors. When these things hit, Apple should immediately deny (if not true) and then sue these individuals for some sort of slander on behalf of their shareholders. These people are manipulating the market to literally steal money from others. If anything this would make all those that "shoot from the hip" to think twice about starting false rumors.

So if they don't deny a rumor, does it make it true? Basically analysts can play 20 Qs with rumors in the hopes Apple doesn't deny them and thus making them true.
post #65 of 70

Wow! And I am the biggest Apple Fanboy around, and have been since 1985. Calm down Slurpy.

post #66 of 70
Quote:
Originally Posted by elroth View Post

And hedge fund managers get big tax breaks from the IRS. Right now Republicans won't even talk about closing those loopholes, because they'd rather cut your mother's social security than make hedge fund managers pay fair taxes.

Where were your white-knight liberals when they controlled the House, Senate and the Presidency? Why didn't they make them pay their fair share then? Could it be that all politicians are in it for the money and that the hedge fund managers make great campaign contributors? Party lines are irrelevant. Government does not care and the SEC is a joke. Money talks and these guys have billions. Just how it is and will never change.
post #67 of 70
Why is he not in jail?
post #68 of 70
Quote:
Originally Posted by jpellino View Post

Why is he not in jail?

Because people listening to dumb rumours makes them stupid, not victims of manipulation....

post #69 of 70
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikeb85 View Post

Because people listening to dumb rumours makes them stupid, not victims of manipulation....

Hello, fellow sociopath!
post #70 of 70
Where's the SEC when exactly these kinds of things happen?

Proud AAPL stock owner.

 

GOA

 

Get the lowdown on the coming collapse:  http://www.cbo.gov/publication/45010

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Proud AAPL stock owner.

 

GOA

 

Get the lowdown on the coming collapse:  http://www.cbo.gov/publication/45010

Reply
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