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Apple CEO Tim Cook on Android growth: 'Success is not making the most' - Page 4

post #121 of 188
2/27/13 at 3:43pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard Getz View Post

 

No he is not right as he intends Apple to be something they are not. Sure, they have had product failures and many HUGE successes. 

 

You can't take the iPod family and call on, just because it is smaller, cheaper and made for mass consumption. The iPod family, over time, grew into segments of usability. Some people wanted smaller iPods to use while running, or larger ones for more capacity. It was never to be cheaper and reach more people in that sense. 

 

The iPhone has already grown a size and may over time have different sizes (as well as colors), but NEVER to meet the demands of mass production, and always to meet the demands of user experience. 

 

I doubt the iPhone / iPad will have many colors as people tend to get cases for such products. You don't get a case, often, for your iPod. Plus the iPod is more of a 'fun', or youthful, product and therefore colorful by nature, although it did not start out that way. 

 

As the largest company in the world with over $140 Billion in Cash reserves, I think Apple does quite well with their own thinking and their success shows it. 

 

[edited: removed most of Lemon's quoted comment to save thread space] 

 

 

Yes you can.

 

They already have.

 

They may do quality.  But they are concerned with marketshare as well.  

 

They have hundreds of Apple stores.  They have thousands of avenues for iPhone consumption.

 

Does quite well...can become 'complacent.'

 

We'll see.

 

When people use the word 'doubt' Apple often surprises them.

 

Lemon Bon Bon.

You know, for a company that specializes in the video-graphics market, you'd think that they would offer top-of-the-line GPUs...[/
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You know, for a company that specializes in the video-graphics market, you'd think that they would offer top-of-the-line GPUs...[/
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post #122 of 188
2/27/13 at 3:43pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lemon Bon Bon. View Post

 

People using pay as you go are not looking for smart phones?

 

That right?

 

Lemon Bon Bon.

 

PS.  Don't want to sell cheap plastic crap?  Didn't stop them before with the iMac or iBook?  Or the G3 tower? :P

 

 

Yes, that is right. People using pay as you go are most often just in need (and thankful) to have any working phone. Their budgets are such that high tech is not tops of their list. 

 

I never considered any of my plastic Macs as cheap as they were all VERY well made. You know the low end cheap PCees I am referring to that go after the bottom demographic market. 

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post #123 of 188
2/27/13 at 3:44pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by WontonParmesan View Post

Hey guys, what is 802.11ac?
It would've been quicker for you to look it up yourself than do a quote-reply. I just hope you missed the /s tag.
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post #124 of 188
2/27/13 at 3:45pm
Quote:
 It was never to be cheaper and reach more people in that sense. 

 

...and why would they make a product for 'some' people?

 

The shuffle was undoubtably to be 'cheaper.'

 

They hoovered the mp3 player market dry.

 

My person opinion, after the iPod success, they thought they had to 'turn up.'

 

It's done great.  But 1 size fits all?

 

Hubris.

 

Lemon Bon Bon.

You know, for a company that specializes in the video-graphics market, you'd think that they would offer top-of-the-line GPUs...[/
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You know, for a company that specializes in the video-graphics market, you'd think that they would offer top-of-the-line GPUs...[/
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post #125 of 188
2/27/13 at 3:48pm
If you cut the PX of the iPad mini, you would cut your margins by at least 50%. Then you have to sell 2X the phones to make the same profits (actually more than 2X because your distribution costs go up. It costs the same yo ship a $199 mini as a $399 mini. In addition, you would see greater cannibalization of the iPad. Besides in the short run it is not easy to double production.

Many of those who buy Android tablets will not be able to update thier software and have few options for return repair.

I woud rather see Apple frow 10% with thier current line plus new prduct categoroes than 30% with low margin junk.
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post #126 of 188
2/27/13 at 3:48pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lemon Bon Bon. View Post

Eh...yes.

 

We DO realise they're a luxury brand.

 

So how come they make a sub £100 ipod?

 

Or a £100+ iPod Nano?

 

or a £250 touch? or iPad Mini?  

 

These are affordable?  Are they cheap crap or luxury.  The latter we know.

 

*shrugs.

 

But they do make expensive crap.  aka the Mac Pro at £2000+.  Now that one is luxury crap.

 

Lemon Bon Bon.

 

 

Once again: iPod size is for user experience, and NOT to save money. Smaller, less capacity saves money, yes, but the purpose of these products is to meet a Use, not a Segment of people. 

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post #127 of 188
2/27/13 at 3:49pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard Getz View Post

 

 

Yes, that is right. People using pay as you go are most often just in need (and thankful) to have any working phone. Their budgets are such that high tech is not tops of their list. 

 

I never considered any of my plastic Macs as cheap as they were all VERY well made. You know the low end cheap PCees I am referring to that go after the bottom demographic market. 

Are they?  So I'm grateful for a PAY as you  GO from Apple, eh?  Did you do a survey?  Why wasn't I consulted? :P

 

Presumptious on both counts.

 

Your 2nd paragraph.

 

My point entirely.

 

Who's saying 'bottom' demographic.  What do we 'mean' by that? :P  How much is the 'bottom?'  

 

Did you read any of my other posts?

 

Who's arguing for razor think 7% margins?

 

But 40% plus?  That's quite a desparity.

 

An iMac for £595 that YOU didn't consider cheap plastic crap (heh...) vs the current £1165 entry iMac.

 

That's quite a difference...and that's just one example of many.

 

Mel' is still  correct.

 

Lemon Bon Bon.

You know, for a company that specializes in the video-graphics market, you'd think that they would offer top-of-the-line GPUs...[/
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You know, for a company that specializes in the video-graphics market, you'd think that they would offer top-of-the-line GPUs...[/
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post #128 of 188
2/27/13 at 3:51pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lemon Bon Bon. View Post

 

...and why would they make a product for 'some' people?

 

The shuffle was undoubtably to be 'cheaper.'

 

They hoovered the mp3 player market dry.

 

My person opinion, after the iPod success, they thought they had to 'turn up.'

 

It's done great.  But 1 size fits all?

 

Hubris.

 

Lemon Bon Bon.

 

 

OH MY GOSH!! REALLY!! 

 

Size does not equate to an attempt to be cheaper or reach more people based on price. Size/Shape/Capacity in the iPod is to reach a user experience. From 'Take all my songs' to 'Hide it in my pocket'. Small for running, larger for capacity. 

 

I don't know what that is so hard to see or understand!!! 

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post #129 of 188
2/27/13 at 3:53pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard Getz View Post

 

 

Once again: iPod size is for user experience, and NOT to save money. Smaller, less capacity saves money, yes, but the purpose of these products is to meet a Use, not a Segment of people. 

And yet again, who says so?  You?  Lol.  Of course they have to meet a segment of people.   What's technology with art...for people.  But which people.  That's the crux.  Jobs said himself, 'affordable.'  He even cut the price of the iPhone himself...because he realised it was out of reach for 'more' people.

 

it still is for the 'more.'

 

How many more can they reach?  The same more they reached with the iPod family.  Same thing with phone radios in.

 

Yet iPods cross the boundaries of price and category and market.  Something they're failing to do with the iPhone.

 

You can't have it both ways.

 

My bet is they can (oh they can...) and will make a more affordable phone for the PAY as you GO and emerging markets.  They have products in the £250 area already.  

 

They don't have to press buttons and have hundreds of products or cheap crap.

 

But they have gaping holes in the iPhone market.  Above and below it.

 

I guess you don't agree.

 

We'll see. :P

 

Lemon Bon Bon.

You know, for a company that specializes in the video-graphics market, you'd think that they would offer top-of-the-line GPUs...[/
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You know, for a company that specializes in the video-graphics market, you'd think that they would offer top-of-the-line GPUs...[/
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post #130 of 188
2/27/13 at 3:54pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard Getz View Post

 

 

OH MY GOSH!! REALLY!! 

 

Size does not equate to an attempt to be cheaper or reach more people based on price. Size/Shape/Capacity in the iPod is to reach a user experience. From 'Take all my songs' to 'Hide it in my pocket'. Small for running, larger for capacity. 

 

I don't know what that is so hard to see or understand!!! 

Really.

 

It's only harder for you to understand that Apple actually does make affordable products and it was their choice to do so.  I guess they really 'oh gosh' made a shuffle for 'some' runners...

 

Evnin' all. :D

 

Lemon Bon Bon.

You know, for a company that specializes in the video-graphics market, you'd think that they would offer top-of-the-line GPUs...[/
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You know, for a company that specializes in the video-graphics market, you'd think that they would offer top-of-the-line GPUs...[/
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post #131 of 188
2/27/13 at 3:56pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lemon Bon Bon. View Post

Are they?  So I'm grateful for a PAY as you  GO from Apple, eh?  Did you do a survey?  Why wasn't I consulted? :P

 

Presumptious on both counts.

 

Your 2nd paragraph.

 

My point entirely.

 

Who's saying 'bottom' demographic.  What do we 'mean' by that? :P  How much is the 'bottom?'  

 

Did you read any of my other posts?

 

Who's arguing for razor think 7% margins?

 

But 40% plus?  That's quite a desparity.

 

An iMac for £595 that YOU didn't consider cheap plastic crap (heh...) vs the current £1165 entry iMac.

 

That's quite a difference...and that's just one example of many.

 

Mel' is still  correct.

 

Lemon Bon Bon.

 

What? You have a pay as you go phone by Apple? 

 

I know several people who has/had pay as you go and none of them were concerned about full featured phones. 

 

Developing nations who can't afford a FREE phone would be way on the bottom. 

 

Luxury brands warrant higher margins, and so what? Are you saying Apple should only make 30 points just so you can afford their phone? Please! 

 

A) Never said Apple did not make some dumb products in their time or any that did not live up to the normal standard. What I did say is that my white iMac was not cheaply made even though it was made with plastic. Unlike so many PCees that are plastic and you can crack them just by looking at them. 

 

You might think he is, but Apple does not. Enough said! 

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post #132 of 188
2/27/13 at 3:58pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lemon Bon Bon. View Post

Really.

 

It's only harder for you to understand that Apple actually does make affordable products and it was their choice to do so.  I guess they really 'oh gosh' made a shuffle for 'some' runners...

 

Evnin' all. :D

 

Lemon Bon Bon.

 

 

:sigh: I don't know to explain it any better, perhaps someone else can dumb this down a bit further. 

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post #133 of 188
2/27/13 at 4:07pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard Getz View Post

 

 

:sigh: I don't know to explain it any better, perhaps someone else can dumb this down a bit further. 

 

iPod Classic 160GB $249 (capacity)

iPod Touch 32GB $299 (full gaming unit and music player)

iPad Nano 16GB $149 (small, but still has a screen)

iPad Shuffle 2GB $49 (very small, no screen)

 

As you can hopefully see, the price comes down due to features and each iPod is for a particular segment. You can purchase cheaper MP3 Players (Walmart has one for $14) 

 

So when you take away capacity, capability, and screens, the price lowers naturally. It is NOT an attempt on Apple's part to make cheaper iPods, but to make different iPods for different lifestyles. 

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post #134 of 188
2/27/13 at 4:08pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard Getz View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone View Post

The largest market segment that remains untapped is the developing world, but let's ignore that since we only want to build luxury products. We'll come back and take another look at China in 20 years or so when they might be able to afford our bling. Of course in the mean time that market will be completely dominated by Samsung and Android.

 

I know it is sort of cliché but it does seem like déjà vu all over again. Mac was elegant and sophisticated in the 80s especially when compared to DOS but by the time Windows 95 came along with most of the same qualities, the Internet, Photoshop and Office, Dell's were generally perceived as just as good but less costly than Macs. It was game over.

 

So yes it did work out well for Dell...for awhile, but they were unable to adapt to a changing market place. If Apple fails to recognize the changing landscape, the same fate awaits them.

 

I would hate to see that happen again, which it very well could if Apple loses in China.

 

 

You do realize that Apple *IS* a luxury brand, right? 

 

Do you go around to all the luxury brand websites and tell them they need to sell cheaper products to the developing nations? 

 

What is your hatred with Apple being who they are? They ARE a luxury brand. Always have been, always will be. Get over it. 


Who are you kidding with that luxury brand bullshit ? Apple has long since become a mass market commodity producer.

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post #135 of 188
2/27/13 at 4:12pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Taniwha View Post


Who are you kidding with that luxury brand bullshit ? Apple has long since become a mass market commodity producer.

 

Just because they sell huge quantities of a product does not make them less of a luxury brand. Talk about your bull! 

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post #136 of 188
2/27/13 at 4:21pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lemon Bon Bon. View Post

No.  That's not what I said. :P

That's what you think.  And that's what you 'think' I said.

Try again, Soli.

Mel' was right.

Lemon Bon Bon.

You write in a very fractured way that doesn't lend to easy reading so I've reposted two of your posts in full and have bolded the comments from each that support my original comment.

Melgross is right.

(Not something I've said often.)

But he is.

Apple are in danger of being consumed by their 'cool' hubris.

Have they so soon forgotten candy coloured iMacs? Pushing the fashion failure of the Cube. (That it failed isn't the point.)

The $1599 dollar G3 Tower (the best one they ever released under Jobs in my view...) - Remember the Performance, expandable, affordable etc. ? Whatever happened to the affordable?

How come you now can't get a desktop for less than £1000 UK smackers? WITH a screen? Is this the same company that USED to give us a fully featured iMac with screen and keyboard/mouse for £595 UK inc VAT!!!?

They SAT on the iPhone 4 design and then 'evolved' it into the iPhone 5. Undeniably the iPhone 5 is a great phone. The best on the market.

But 'one size fits all?' Really? From the company that gave us the iPod 'premium' at all segments?

The classic devolved into the shuffle, nano and the Touch. All affordable. All premium. All value. They sucked the life out of the competition. So you could get an 'iPod' at £45? £100ish. £200 ish. Recognise anything? All Apple. All value. All quality.

Apple used to have a UK tower at £1055 there abouts. Now you have to £2000+ for one with a crappy quad core and a crappy gpu. And because Apple have a 'one size' fits all monitor range it costs you £899 inc vat to get a display? Really?

What happened to affordability, Apple?

I'm an Apple guy. But I aint drinking the cool aid of the price hikes since 2008.

It's a joke that you can't get an iMac any cheaper than the original launch price from its debut. £1099 without DVD (add £65 and Fusion which should be standard...it's how much for a 128 SSD?) and you're looking at £165 more than the old entry and £365 more for what they 'should' have included if you count Fusion. Little cost for Apple. Alot extra for the consumer. They used to have a model in 2008 £695 entry level iMac. It's now £405 more pricey. The Mac Pro £1000 more pricey to get on the ladder. The mini used to be 'almost' compelling at under £495. Seriously, they can't included a mouse and keyboard? (And the latest iMac keyboard feels 'cheaper' with it's pressed plastic than the last generation's keyboard...)

Imac? £200 price drop minimum across the board. They're desktops. Should be cheaper than Airs?

The Air? Needs a cheaper model.

Basically what Mel' said.

As for the iPad Mini. Intro' the retina...but keep the old non retina model and drop the price on it.

iPhone? Follow the iPod strategy.

Nuclear on Samsung.

Go iPhone shuffle with siri.
Go iPhone Nano with colours. Cheaper. Plastic if necessary.
Go iPhone classic as is...with colours. (Take your iPod touch streamline the design, add radio...and annodized colours. Price trim.) The iPod touch is a better design than the iPhone 5. It just is.
Go iPhone +. 4.8-5 inches. No home button...no border. All front surface glass. Tear drop design. Super sexy.

You blow Samsung away. Suck air out of Android and take on the Indian, China markets, Brazil HEAD ON!

You get the £50, £100+, £250+ £350+ £500+ markets nailed.

If you're going to cannibalise, do it to your own product...before Android does.

I think Mel' is right on the money.

Apple could easily make a more affordable tower while their at it.Let the tower and iMac fight it out. But there's plenty of Windows users who would like a tower. But start at £999 and offer a sane display to go with it.

Apple as Mel said? Have done it in the past.

Plus the market share gains will sex up the stock value.

Get the iWatch out.
Get the aTV out.

Growth.

That's my multiprong zietgheist.

Get the 'Air' to where the 'iBook' used to be on price.

Cheaper ticket price for upsell.

Come on Apple. You're making hard work of it.

Hubris and all that. Until people wake up and realise cool aint worth the posterior reaming extra.

Nobody is saying they have to do cheap crap. They never have.

Was the iMac 'cheap crap' when Apple offered it for £595? Was the Shuffe 'cheap crap' when it took the iPod sub £100? No. Apple were desperate to corner the MP3 market.

Sure, there is a premium profit in the Phone market profits are with them. But with £150 Billion in emerging world market smart phones share to be had...the ball is in Apple's court.

I hope Tim is listening. People who can't afford non contract phones...find £500+ way too much.

Figure it out. If they can Mini the iPad...they can go Nano and + with the iPhone, do colours, do annodized...give people choice. 1 choice is ridiculous no matter how good it is.

It's indefensible.

Lemon Bon Bon.

= = = = = = = = = =

Yes. And you can put an affordable consumer tower in that category along with a Pro redesign for 'mortals' who want to bootcamp with Apple.

Just watched teh G3 tower intro'. Amazed at how affordable they were back then...complete with Quake 3 demo... And decent GPUs. Those were teh days. The tower/desktop appears a dwindling market...but how they've treated it...sums it all up. They're selling an out of date 'workstation' not worth the money. Along with Monitor choice. Totalitarian 'one size' fits all. Are Apple becoming the 'big brother' of the 1984 advert?

Time for a reality check on your prices Apple as we hit a triple dip recession. Meanwhile, you have 145 billion in the bank.

And you're nickle and diming us for Fusion drives, hiking iMac prices (2nd time they've done that in a recession...) and charging us for dropped features aka DVD drive.

They've now got enough in the bank to put the opposition to the sword. They have the stores. They have the reach.

Forget the share price. Nobody is asking for 7% profit margins and unrealistic volumes in shrinking markets. But going from £1045 to £2000 plus?

Going from £595 to £1160?

As the iPod market dissolves...we go from an affordable shuffle of £50+ to an iPhone of £500+

An iBook that used to be £695 to the Air's price?

Hubris.

Or Greed?

Or both?

Affordability. That was one of the things Jobs said in his keynote...back THEN when he launched the G3 Tower's blue and white design. Power and affordability.

Discuss.

Lemon Bon Bon.

None of this makes much sense but your underlying comment is consistently that Apple is doing it wrong despite leading in every HW category they are in. That makes your complaints null and void right there but you also contradict yourself with complaint about Fusion Drive not being standard and keeping the ODD and then later talking about dropping the price so they can do an upsell.

Finally and most egregious, is your comments about the iPhone following the iPod model of a larger HDD-based device, a small screened device, and a no screen device that only uses Siri to communicate without any consideration for the App Store ecosystem that is a huge part of the success for the iPhone, iPod Touch, and iPad. There are two display sizes for the IPhone just as there are 2 display sizes for the iPod Touch, and uncoincidently the 3.5" apps fit on the 4" iPhone pixel for pixel, just as an 10" iPad app fit on the 8" iPad display pixel for pixel, albeit for different reasons.

This is all by design and this is why they are winning, not in spite of.


PS: I think there is nothing cooler in the tech world right now than my new 27" iMac.

"Blank! BLANK! You're not looking at the big picture!"

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"Blank! BLANK! You're not looking at the big picture!"

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post #137 of 188
2/27/13 at 4:29pm

What this comes down to is for all the haters and shareholder complainers; own enough shares to matter and you can change whatever you want. 

 

Until then, Apple is one of the largest companies in the world with huge cash reserves and #1 user experience, and market dominance for most of their products that they don't need advise from any of us, me especially :) 

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post #138 of 188
2/27/13 at 4:32pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

This is all by design and this is why they are winning, not in spite of.


PS: I think there is nothing cooler in the tech world right now than my new 27" iMac.

 

So that is what they mean by 'Designed by Apple' :P 

 

 

I agree, Apple's 27" all in one iMac is in a class all by itself. I have a little 24" iMac that still gets raves when people see it's size and beauty. 

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post #139 of 188
2/27/13 at 5:05pm

Looking at Samsung, they sold the most phone because of so many Galaxy  phone line up.  Last year Samsung push out low-end, mid-range, and high-end smartphone every month. What sold the most for Samsung was the Galaxy S, a high-end smartphone.

 

Last year Samsung Galaxy line up

January 2012 Samsung Galaxy Y Pro Duos[36]  
January 2012 Samsung Galaxy Ace Plus[37]  
February 2012 Samsung Galaxy Ace 2[38]  
February 2012 Samsung Galaxy Mini 2[38]  
February 2012 Samsung Galaxy Beam (i8520)[39]  
March 2012 Samsung Galaxy Pocket[40]  
April 2012 Samsung Galaxy S Advance[41]  
May 2012 Samsung Galaxy S III (GT-i9300)[42]  
May 2012 Samsung Galaxy Appeal (SGH-I827)  
July 2012 Samsung Galaxy Stellar (SCH-I200)  
August 2012 Samsung Galaxy S Duos  
September 2012 Samsung Galaxy Victory 4G LTE (SPH-L300)  
September 2012 Samsung Galaxy Reverb (SPH-M950)  
September 2012 Samsung Galaxy Rush (SPH-M830)  
October 2012 Samsung Galaxy Express (SGH-I437)  
October 2012 Samsung Galaxy Rugby Pro (SGH-I547)  
November 2012 Samsung Galaxy S III Mini (GT-I8190)[43]

 

 

Imagine if Apple strategy was like that, there would be an outrage and lawsuit flying toward Apple. 

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post #140 of 188
2/27/13 at 5:05pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lemon Bon Bon. View Post

Basic isn't what I said.

 

Basic is the choice Apple is offering.

 

And a pricey hubris that may yet come back to haunt them.

 

We shall see.

 

Affordable is what they have done with eg the iPod line as an Example.  They have, historically, BEEN there.  See what Mel' said.

 

And they 'could' do it again.

 

We'll SEE if they want to.

 

That doesn't mean 'cheap.'  But we know they can do 'CHEAPER.'

 

How many Apple fans would have defended Apple at £1000 for an iPad?

 

Yet Apple blew away all conception of this when it suited them.  They grabbed the iPad market by the balls with an astonishing £399 iPad.  £600 plus cheaper!

 

They CAN or COULD give consumers a better deal.  And go 'upsell' from there.

 

It's something they do well in the iPad and iPod markets.

 

iPhone?  Not so much.  Though 4s sales have done better than expected.

 

Desktop prices need work.

 

They need a more affordable laptop.

 

How they get there...up to Apple.

 

Lemon Bon Bon.

I would think the best way to compare the current models with the older ones that were "cheaper" is what Apple's margins were then vs now. I have no idea what the answer is, but it would be interesting to find out. Anyone have data on this?

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post #141 of 188
2/27/13 at 5:06pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lemon Bon Bon. View Post

Refined fructose, mate.

Lemon Bon Bon. :P

I call it Bolivian Marching Powder.
"A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject" - Winston Churchill
"Just because something is deemed the law doesn't make it just" - SolipsismX
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"A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject" - Winston Churchill
"Just because something is deemed the law doesn't make it just" - SolipsismX
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post #142 of 188
2/27/13 at 5:14pm
Quote:

Those that purchase contract free phones do what for data? Either buy pay as you go, or sign up with a carrier. 

 

You people drive me crazy with your Microsoft thinking.  

 

*people using pay as you go are NOT looking for smart phones. 

Really now, that is just bull.  I just moved from an iphone 4 on AT&T to a pay as you go plan (and no, I didn't buy an apple phone partially because of the cost).  I also know others who either currently use smart phones on pay as you go networks, or who are thinking about it.  The reason for this should be obvious:  cost!

 

The major carriers subsidize phones heavily, but to do this they jack their prices up to insane rates, and charge you ridiculous fees for every "overage" they can think of.  How much does a new iphone cost you per month on VZ or ATT?  Assuming you go with a minimal texting plan, you're looking at $75 to $80 a month minimum.  If you want unlimited texts and more minutes you're looking at closer to $100. 

 

Now lets compare this to pay as you go plans.  I switched to a plan for $40 a month with unlimited text and talk, and 250MB of 4g data a month.  If i wanted more data, for $50 a month I could get 2GB of data, or $60 for unlimited.  The savings by going to pay as you go are huge (especially if you're not part of a family plan).  Even assuming a $55 plan, you're likely saving over $20 a month.  Sure you pay up front for your phone, but (if you don't go the apple route) that isn't too bad.  I picked up a new Galaxy S3 for $400 . . . That's cheaper than buying a new iPhone4!

 

If more people start realizing how much the carriers are ripping them off by subsidizing phones and tying them into expensive contracts, apple's model will be in trouble.  However for the time being they're making a killing, and I can't blame them for not releasing a lower end phone to address the other markets.

 

Phil

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post #143 of 188
2/27/13 at 5:26pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by philgar View Post

Really now, that is just bull.  I just moved from an iphone 4 on AT&T to a pay as you go plan (and no, I didn't buy an apple phone partially because of the cost).  I also know others who either currently use smart phones on pay as you go networks, or who are thinking about it.  The reason for this should be obvious:  cost!

 

The major carriers subsidize phones heavily, but to do this they jack their prices up to insane rates, and charge you ridiculous fees for every "overage" they can think of.  How much does a new iphone cost you per month on VZ or ATT?  Assuming you go with a minimal texting plan, you're looking at $75 to $80 a month minimum.  If you want unlimited texts and more minutes you're looking at closer to $100. 

 

Now lets compare this to pay as you go plans.  I switched to a plan for $40 a month with unlimited text and talk, and 250MB of 4g data a month.  If i wanted more data, for $50 a month I could get 2GB of data, or $60 for unlimited.  The savings by going to pay as you go are huge (especially if you're not part of a family plan).  Even assuming a $55 plan, you're likely saving over $20 a month.  Sure you pay up front for your phone, but (if you don't go the apple route) that isn't too bad.  I picked up a new Galaxy S3 for $400 . . . That's cheaper than buying a new iPhone4!

 

If more people start realizing how much the carriers are ripping them off by subsidizing phones and tying them into expensive contracts, apple's model will be in trouble.  However for the time being they're making a killing, and I can't blame them for not releasing a lower end phone to address the other markets.

 

Phil

 

I'm sorry, I must not understand what Pay As You Go is vs. a Plan. 

 

Pay As You Go == You buy X minutes and that is what you get. Once the minutes are done, you buy more or you don't have a phone. No monthly anything. 

 

You stated "I switched to a plan for $40 a month" which is a plan, so your point is lost right from the start. 

 

Second, you stated that you purchased a phone for $400. Again, you can do that on any carrier if you are willing to pay the price of the phone. 

 

Brings me to my last point. Apple is a luxury brand that cost more than other phones. If you are not wanting to pay that, no worry, buy a cheaper phone, use a cheaper plan and SAVE money! 

 

And just in case you missed it; Apple is not in the business of saving you money, or going after the price conscience consumer. 

 

And yes, I pay $100/month for ATT and once a carrier has the same coverage and features (being able to talk and surf at the same time) I will consider switching. 

 

P.S.

 

I've always said an iPhone that was internet WiFi only and thus saving on a data plan would be ideal. 

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post #144 of 188
2/27/13 at 5:27pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard Getz View Post

 

You do realize that Apple *IS* a luxury brand, right? 

 

Do you go around to all the luxury brand websites and tell them they need to sell cheaper products to the developing nations? 

 

What is your hatred with Apple being who they are? They ARE a luxury brand. Always have been, always will be. Get over it. 

I don't think you understand my comments at all.

 

Apple is a consumer electronics manufacturer.

 

They are not like Gucci, Rolls Royce, etc.

 

An Internet-based consumer product line cannot survive as a niche market.

 

iOS is a platform that requires millions of customers to remain sustainable.

 

If Android takes over the developing world market share they have won.

 

Therefore Apple needs to compete with an iPhone Lite or die.

 

It is all about China right now but there is another huge continent or two in the developing world.

 

Modern western countries are going to be the minority markets in the coming decades.

 

Adapt or die. Evolution 101.

Life is too short to drink bad coffee.

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post #145 of 188
2/27/13 at 5:35pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post

. While Android has grown exponentially on smartphones, through multiple carriers and manufacturers, Google's mobile platform has not had the same success in the tablet market, where Apple's iPad is dominant.


Not until google start subsidizing tablets so heavy that the will be almost free to get.
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post #146 of 188
2/27/13 at 5:37pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone View Post

I don't think you understand my comments at all.

 

Apple is a consumer electronics manufacturer.

 

They are not like Gucci, Rolls Royce, etc.

 

An Internet-based consumer product line cannot survive as a niche market.

 

iOS is a platform that requires millions of customers to remain sustainable.

 

If Android takes over the developing world market share they have won.

 

Therefore Apple needs to compete with an iPhone Lite or die.

 

It is all about China right now but there is another huge continent or two in the developing world.

 

Modern western countries are going to be the minority markets in the coming decades.

 

Adapt or die. Evolution 101.

 

I did, but you don't understand Apple or acknowledge that they are $140 Billion solvent and one of the largest companies in the world because they do what they do. 

 

They are a luxury brand, just not at the price of a RR. I hope I do not have to explain what luxury is, right? 

 

An Internet-based consumer product line cannot survive as a niche market.

 

And why not? 

 

iOS is a platform that requires millions of customers to remain sustainable.

 

Just like OSX requires mass adoption to remain sustainable? Sustainability is just that, the ability to keep oneself going. As Apple charges a premium for their products, I believe they have enough money to keep iOS going in spite of competition. Not true for the competition however. 

 

Therefore Apple needs to compete with an iPhone Lite or die.

 

LMAO! Apple only needs to keep selling products we are willing to stand in line for hours to purchase. And they do, so we do, so they will continue to do fine. 

 

It is all about China right now but there is another huge continent or two in the developing world.

 

And those in China wanting a luxury phone (and bragging rights) will buy the iPhone. 

 

Modern western countries are going to be the minority markets in the coming decades.

 

Apple is well aware of their consumers and how to market to them. 

 

Adapt or die. Evolution 101.

 

Evolution LMAO again! 

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post #147 of 188
2/27/13 at 5:40pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by 512ke View Post

I think this is a GREAT strategy.  Really and truly, just BRILLIANT!

1) Tell your shareholders you don't give a **** about how many items you sell, to let them know you really could care less if the share price tanks.

2) Let the other guys/Samsungs run you down in ads.  

3( Let them take away your market share.  

Have it be an EXACT repeat of Windows eating Mac's lunch back in the day.  Let Android gain the majority of share so that developers will go to them.

The difference between the PC wars and now is that Apple wasn't making money back then. Apple can say they had 70% of the mobile profits.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ankleskater View Post

Indeed making the most is not the only metric, or the most important metric of success. But it would be wrong to say success is not making the most.

Lest we forget, Apple also plays the numbers game, or rather did play it, when it makes sense. They repeatedly cite their superior market share in tablets, # of the apps available, # of downloads, amount of app-derived revenue paid out to developers. Not that long ago, they too reported activation numbers regularly, and openly questioned Android activation numbers. That stopped when the evidence wasn't in their favor. So, IMO, it's a bit hollow to poo-poo the numbers game.

70% of mobile profits = success.
# apps, downloads, $ for developers, whatever, wasn't defining success. It just provided metrics that back the scope and activity of the iOS ecosystem.
Quote:
Originally Posted by godrifle View Post

Success is selling to your capacity, at the margin you deem sustainable by your clientele. When those numbers start to slip, you're not meeting the ideological perceptions of your client. Keep blabbing, Mr. Cook. The market judges your performance, and thus-far yours sucks. I realize it doesn't matter to you, because you've been compensated for the performance of your predecessors.

Apple's board of directors should answer to to that.

Most profitable calendar year in human history? Check
One of the most profitable qtrs in human history? Check
Record sales of iDevices? Check
Selling every iDevice they can make? Check

It is obviously a failed company. /s
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post #148 of 188
2/27/13 at 5:45pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard Getz View Post

I did, but you don't understand Apple or acknowledge that they are $140 Billion solvent and one of the largest companies in the world because they do what they do. 

 

[...]

 

Evolution LMAO again! 

 

Then perhaps you have read this in your studies:

 

"Pride goeth before destruction, and an haughty spirit before a fall."

Life is too short to drink bad coffee.

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Life is too short to drink bad coffee.

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post #149 of 188
2/27/13 at 6:00pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone View Post

 

Then perhaps you have read this in your studies:

 

"Pride goeth before destruction, and an haughty spirit before a fall."

 

Now that makes more sense. 

 

So how about the pride of people thinking they know better how to run Apple then those doing a very good job of running Apple? 

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post #150 of 188
2/27/13 at 6:02pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by jungmark View Post


The difference between the PC wars and now is that Apple wasn't making money back then. Apple can say they had 70% of the mobile profits.
70% of mobile profits = success.
# apps, downloads, $ for developers, whatever, wasn't defining success. It just provided metrics that back the scope and activity of the iOS ecosystem.
Most profitable calendar year in human history? Check
One of the most profitable qtrs in human history? Check
Record sales of iDevices? Check
Selling every iDevice they can make? Check

It is obviously a failed company. /s

 

Using Facts instead of FUD (Fear Uncertainty and Doubt) CHECK! :) 

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post #151 of 188
2/27/13 at 6:18pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard Getz View Post

I'm sorry, I must not understand what Pay As You Go is vs. a Plan. 

Pay As You Go == You buy X minutes and that is what you get. Once the minutes are done, you buy more or you don't have a phone. No monthly anything. 

You stated "I switched to a plan for $40 a month
" which is a plan, so your point is lost right from the start. 

Second, you stated that you purchased a phone for $400. Again, you can do that on any carrier if you are willing to pay the price of the phone. 

Brings me to my last point. Apple is a luxury brand that cost more than other phones. If you are not wanting to pay that, no worry, buy a cheaper phone, use a cheaper plan and SAVE money! 

And just in case you missed it; Apple is not in the business of saving you money, or going after the price conscience consumer. 

And yes, I pay $100/month for ATT and once a carrier has the same coverage and features (being able to talk and surf at the same time) I will consider switching. 

P.S.

I've always said an iPhone that was internet WiFi only and thus saving on a data plan would be ideal. 

FYI 'a Plan' as you put it are called 'post paid'. Good luck getting a iPhone with no data plan. Don't buy a Ferrari and then complain about the price of premium gasoline.
Edited by dasanman69 - 2/27/13 at 7:12pm
"A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject" - Winston Churchill
"Just because something is deemed the law doesn't make it just" - SolipsismX
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"A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject" - Winston Churchill
"Just because something is deemed the law doesn't make it just" - SolipsismX
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post #152 of 188
2/27/13 at 6:30pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard Getz View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone View Post

 

Then perhaps you have read this in your studies:

 

"Pride goeth before destruction, and an haughty spirit before a fall."

 

Now that makes more sense. 

 

So how about the pride of people thinking they know better how to run Apple then those doing a very good job of running Apple? 

I wasn't referring to Apple but to you and your projected persona. You need to reexamine your own self awareness and stop basing the quality of your existence on some perceived value in ownership of a gadget. If you think an Apple product is a luxury item, then you know nothing about luxury. An iPhone, after all, is just a phone with a few extra features.

 

Apple will probably do something similar to what I predict in order to address the emerging market. My hope is that they do it in time to mitigate the unprecedented expansion of Android in the developing world.

Life is too short to drink bad coffee.

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Life is too short to drink bad coffee.

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post #153 of 188
2/27/13 at 6:54pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

For those who believe that marketshare is worthless, I'll say that it's not.

 

And I'll say that it is. Marketshare is worthless without profits. Just follow the money.

 

The reason why people are still sticking to this old meme is because of the Mac vs Windows events of the 90s, where many developers (cough Adobe cough) shifted towards Windows because of marketshare but that's wrong. Developers don't go where the users are, they go where the money is, plain and simple. Most Windows customers were businesses with money to buy programs, therefore marketshare has a direct corellation so in this instance there's a direct one to one correlation between marketshare and profit share, and that's where the confusion of most people lie. This is not the case in mobile, where Android has 3 times the marketshare yet developers make 4 times the money on iOS and for less effort as well. Android users don't want to pay for apps, iOS users do, that is well known. You can also pirate apps on Android but not on iOS ( jailbroken devices excluded of course ). Follow the money.

 

As the market shifts, so do developers. This isn't speculation, it's fact.

 

You got that right, but not because of units or marketshare, it's not, it's profits, again and always. And that's not my opinion, that's fact.

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post #154 of 188
2/27/13 at 8:05pm

If you were in Apple's position would you continue targeting users with more disposable income to buy higher end devices, apps and other investments in your ecosystem - OR - would you target the unwashed masses who don't really have the cash to powerfully support your developers or your services?

 

Lets face it folks Apple has the best strategy - build strong bonds with the top economic section of the populace who you can leverage with their buy in for ongoing business.  Apple = Quality (minus a few hiccups)

 

Then there is the iPad which allowed others to shift from cheap computers to iPads.  The next device might utilize SIRI and the small screen area of the iPhone on a new class of multi-configurable and wearable devices.  Just wait  Tim is being coy of course.  Then many of those people who might have bought a cheap smart phone - will switch to a multi-configurable device.

Imaginariums - Immersive Environments Design & Production
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Imaginariums - Immersive Environments Design & Production
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post #155 of 188
2/27/13 at 8:22pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone View Post

I wasn't referring to Apple but to you and your projected persona. You need to reexamine your own self awareness and stop basing the quality of your existence on some perceived value in ownership of a gadget. If you think an Apple product is a luxury item, then you know nothing about luxury. An iPhone, after all, is just a phone with a few extra features.

 

Apple will probably do something similar to what I predict in order to address the emerging market. My hope is that they do it in time to mitigate the unprecedented expansion of Android in the developing world.

 

 

LOL What? Quality of my existence in a gadget? How in the world did you get that from any of my posts? The quality of my existence is in the Lord Jesus ONLY. 

 

For the genre, Apple products are luxury as no one needs a phone at that price or a music player at that price. Are Apple products extravagant living, probably not by most standards. Would calling them a boutique brand be better? 

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post #156 of 188
2/27/13 at 8:23pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

None of this makes much sense but your underlying comment is consistently that Apple is doing it wrong despite leading in every HW category they are in. That makes your complaints null and void right there but you also contradict yourself with complaint about Fusion Drive not being standard and keeping the ODD and then later talking about dropping the price so they can do an upsell.

 

The underlying theme of the highlighted phrases would seem to indicate that he (or she) thinks Apple is too greedy and charging too much, and losing the race to build embarrassingly large handsets.

"And just like that, everyone here realizes you're just another sweaty little Google licker with an axe to grind and no idea what he's talking about." --addabox
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"And just like that, everyone here realizes you're just another sweaty little Google licker with an axe to grind and no idea what he's talking about." --addabox
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post #157 of 188
2/27/13 at 8:27pm

Lemons sure are sour fruit, no?

"And just like that, everyone here realizes you're just another sweaty little Google licker with an axe to grind and no idea what he's talking about." --addabox
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"And just like that, everyone here realizes you're just another sweaty little Google licker with an axe to grind and no idea what he's talking about." --addabox
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post #158 of 188
2/27/13 at 9:05pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard Getz View Post

 The quality of my existence is in the Lord Jesus ONLY. 

Perhaps Apple evangelism is not your strong suit. Stick to what you know.

Life is too short to drink bad coffee.

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Life is too short to drink bad coffee.

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post #159 of 188
2/27/13 at 9:39pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheUnfetteredMind View Post

I would think the best way to compare the current models with the older ones that were "cheaper" is what Apple's margins were then vs now. I have no idea what the answer is, but it would be interesting to find out. Anyone have data on this?


Forget the profit margin. Today's entry level iMac starts at $1299.00.

Exactly the same price as the original Bondi Blue iMac.


Lemon not only lives in another country, but he has created his own little planet. 1hmm.gif
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post #160 of 188
2/27/13 at 10:25pm

So basically what people want is Apple to become Samsung and start releasing products at every conceivable size and price point,  Wall Street doesn't get Apple, never has.  I'm glad Tim Cook isn't dancing to their tune.  Today he said something that Jony Ive has said in the past - make great products and the revenue and profits will follow.  I'm not worried about Apple's ability to continue to make great products.  And I think the less we hear from them right now the better.  It means they have their heads down working on really cool stuff.  Maybe this year we'll go in to WWDC and other keynotes not knowing everything Apple is going to announce.  How nice would that be?

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