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post #81 of 102
3/4/13 at 10:59am
Quote:
Originally Posted by igriv View Post

They do have to make money, but

1. They don't need to make obscene quantities thereof. Calculus textbook AUTHORS (who make only a small percentage of the profits) rake it in big time (Stewart, of Stewart's calculus has a $20MM house in Toronto).

2. There are, in fact, perfectly good calculus textbooks which are in public domain (this may be less true of engineering books, since the field evolves faster). Why aren't they used? Your guess is as good as mine.

I thought profs can choose a text book they like. In one of my engineering classes, back in the day, our text was a dept prof's draft version.
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post #82 of 102
3/4/13 at 11:08am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

 

Now you're getting it. They've deemed the iPad the only device capable of serving up what they want. 

 

 

What you really mean is they are too lazy to write Android or W8 apps.  Or a web app compatible with open web standards, which would actually be the ideal.  That way it could be accessed from a phone, tablet, or computer of any make and OS.  

 

There's plenty of universities which are Microsoft and Windows-only, where a Windows device is considered a prerequisite.  Is that acceptable to you?  Because it isn't to me...

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post #83 of 102
3/4/13 at 11:14am
Originally Posted by Mikeb85 View Post
What you really mean is they are too lazy to write Android or W8 apps.

 

Then that's their problem, isn't it?


Or a web app compatible with open web standards, which would actually be the ideal.

 

Less functionality is the ideal?


There's plenty of universities which are Microsoft and Windows-only, where a Windows device is considered a prerequisite.  Is that acceptable to you?  Because it isn't to me...

 

Fine by me. So don't go to that university. Or go and use your Mac. It's not actually an issue. 1wink.gif

PhilBoogie
That's Google alright. For a stupid company they sure do dumb things.
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PhilBoogie
That's Google alright. For a stupid company they sure do dumb things.
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post #84 of 102
3/4/13 at 12:21pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikeb85 View Post

Or a web app compatible with open web standards, which would actually be the ideal. 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

 

Less functionality is the ideal?

 

B-b-b-but surely HTML5 can deliver all the functionality that would be needed? Steve Jobs said so. 1rolleyes.gif

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post #85 of 102
3/4/13 at 12:45pm
Originally Posted by stike vomit View Post
B-b-b-but surely HTML5 can deliver all the functionality that would be needed? Steve Jobs said so. 1rolleyes.gif

 

You didn't just seriously compare the difference in HTML5 and Flash to the difference in web development and OS application development.

 

That didn't happen. You're not that foolish.

PhilBoogie
That's Google alright. For a stupid company they sure do dumb things.
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PhilBoogie
That's Google alright. For a stupid company they sure do dumb things.
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post #86 of 102
3/4/13 at 12:59pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by stike vomit View Post

 

 

B-b-b-but surely HTML5 can deliver all the functionality that would be needed? Steve Jobs said so. 1rolleyes.gif

 

And he was mostly right.  HTML5 can indeed deliver nearly as much functionality as native apps, if the browser allows for it.  Certainly enough to deliver information and gather info from University students...  It's not like the app is a AAA 3D game....

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post #87 of 102
3/4/13 at 1:33pm

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikeb85 View Post

And he was mostly right.  HTML5 can indeed deliver nearly as much functionality as native apps, if the browser allows for it.  Certainly enough to deliver information and gather info from University students...  It's not like the app is a AAA 3D game....

 

Agreed.

 

HTML would even favor the iPad, since it has quite an impressive CSS3 implementation, especially when it comes to transitions and animations.

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post #88 of 102
3/4/13 at 2:13pm

Arkansas State has only 10,000 total students and is ranked #56 in the Regional Colleges (South) by US News. So it is not a huge amount of new iPads we are talking about. The small size of the school probably makes it easier to standardize than a large top ranked university would be. And since nearly 90% of their students are applying for financial aid anyway, it not like the price of the iPad is coming out of their pocket right now or all at once so it should not be a financial burden.

Life is too short to drink bad coffee.

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Life is too short to drink bad coffee.

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post #89 of 102
3/4/13 at 5:25pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by igriv View Post

I asked you for an example, not some university administrator's (who likely knows less than either one of us) opinion:

I recently bought a Mercedes E350, and it gets me from point A to point B really well, so from now on all of our students who live off campus are required to buy one -- no, no bicycles, no buses, no Rolls-Royces.

Stop with your analogies. They suck.

If android tablets were anywhere near successful, I'm sure they would have been considered. But since the iPad has 200,000+ apps specifically designed for it, it's more than just video.
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post #90 of 102
3/4/13 at 6:27pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by igriv View Post

I am very sad that my analogies are not to your taste. It is sort like if I took some pearls and and tried to impress some swine with them-- doubtlessly a mistake.

As for your more substantive comment, there are plenty of apps designed for the android tablets and phones, and literally tens of millions of apps designed for Windows laptops, which the students already have, and similar number of platform-agnostic HTML5/javascript/etc tools, as pointed out by some of the other comments. In addition, the videoconferencing thing was explicitly mentioned in the article, and was the ONLY thing so mentioned.

But you would probably prefer to wallow in some muck -- sorry to waste your valuable time.

It's not that I don't like your analogies, it's that your analogies are wrong.

I bet many of the students have iPads already. What if they don't have a windows PC? You're gonna make them get Windows? The whole idea is to see how they can incorporate tablets or mobile devices in education. Why not start with the only tablet with traction?

So how many of these Android apps are designed for tablets? Most likely they're scaled up phone apps.
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post #91 of 102
3/5/13 at 5:46am
Originally Posted by igriv View Post

I recently bought a Mercedes E350, and it gets me from point A to point B really well, so from now on all of our students who live off campus are required to buy one -- no, no bicycles, no buses, no Rolls-Royces.

 

That's a slippery slope argument, no less ridiculous than claiming gay marriage will lead to people marrying animals.

 

Unis don't have unlimited budgets. Sometimes they have to pick the best single tool for the job, period. End of story.

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post #92 of 102
3/5/13 at 10:22am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vorsos View Post

That's a slippery slope argument, no less ridiculous than claiming gay marriage will lead to people marrying animals.

Unis don't have unlimited budgets. Sometimes they have to pick the best single tool for the job, period. End of story.

As long as students have unlimited access to government student loans, then universities do have unlimited budgets.
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post #93 of 102
3/10/13 at 10:11am
Quote:
Originally Posted by jungmark View Post


Here's the deal, many Us do require computers simply because they don't have the space for computer labs for the majority of their students.
It depends on the courses. My engineering and comp sci classes don't use multiple guess questions.

 

Two years in a liberal arts program for a BA, switched up to a BFA and then an MFA and the only time I used a scantron was never. 4 schools, three programs, not a single class was multiple choice. 

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post #94 of 102
3/10/13 at 10:17am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikeb85 View Post

But anyhow, University is supposed to be about propagating knowledge, not pushing specific commercial products.  

 

Unless that knowledge is about tech and computer programming the tool used doesn't really matter so long as it is used well. 

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post #95 of 102
3/10/13 at 10:26am
Quote:
Originally Posted by igriv View Post

 

I should note that the textbook racket is about the most disgusting racket there is. I am a mathematics professor, among other things, and I can assure you that calculus has not changed much in the last two hundred years. This does not prevent publishers from coming out with a new incompatible edition of their calculus book every couple of years. Why can they get away with it? You guessed it -- vendor lock-in...

 

Yep. And that is one of the biggest issues from the student side. That Calculus book will be like $200, $100 if you are lucky to get a used copy. But then every two to three years they release a new edition and thanks to the contracts the school and professors are forced to use the new one. So there goes selling back textbooks for a batch of kids. 

 

Not to mention the crap condition some of those books were in by that third year. I basically had to buy new for all my major course study books because the used ones were disgustingly marked up and ripped. I knew I was keeping most of them at least to the end of my studies because I would need them to reference for my thesis work. But it was painful using those trashed up books for my other courses to save a few dollars. I would have happily invested in a tablet if I could have had clean copies of everything for similar prices. 

 

And with tools in place for teachers to prepare their own materials they could choose to offset the cost of the tablet by giving away materials or selling their homemade 'textbook' for like $20. 

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post #96 of 102
3/10/13 at 10:28am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

 

Here's one.

 

Not really a good example. Because Ark State could have picked any tablet and likely found tools to suit their needs. 

 

A case that fits the question better would be a course in computer science on programming for iOS. You have to have access to a tool to test your work on in a real way since the XCode simulators don't work exactly the same as a real device. 

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post #97 of 102
3/10/13 at 10:55am
Originally Posted by charlituna View Post
…Ark State could have picked any tablet and likely found tools to suit their needs.

 

But they didn't. They picked the iPad. Probably because there aren't any other tablets that can manage things the way the iPad can.

PhilBoogie
That's Google alright. For a stupid company they sure do dumb things.
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PhilBoogie
That's Google alright. For a stupid company they sure do dumb things.
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post #98 of 102
3/10/13 at 1:45pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

But they didn't. They picked the iPad. Probably because there aren't any other tablets that can manage things the way the iPad can.

 

I think it's more like, buying Apple is today's version of the old adage that nobody got fired for buying IBM.  

 

Apple's tablet is seen as a mainstream, safe choice... in large part because buyers can count on the same basic compatible design being available year after year. (*)

 

That is an important consideration when trying to set a longterm standard.

 

(*) Recent connector change notwithstanding.

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post #99 of 102
3/10/13 at 4:52pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

 

But they didn't. They picked the iPad. Probably because there aren't any other tablets that can manage things the way the iPad can.

 

And I counter that if they really wanted to they could find apps to so whatever they wanted on 

Android if not Linux or even windows. 

 

Why did they choose iPads? who knows, but the choose may not have been because it was the only option as you originally tried to suggest. Maybe it was because they already had Apple friendly infrastructure, maybe Apple offered them a bulk purchase discount to sell to the students right on campus. Maybe, as a State Uni, someone else made the call. 

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post #100 of 102
3/11/13 at 8:14am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

Hey, we'd prefer no filters. Huddler just has to update their settings.

 

Oh, TIL :D

Social Capitalist, dreamer and wise enough to know I'm never going to grow up anyway... so not trying anymore.

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Social Capitalist, dreamer and wise enough to know I'm never going to grow up anyway... so not trying anymore.

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post #101 of 102
3/11/13 at 8:21am
Quote:
Originally Posted by msuberly View Post


As long as students have unlimited access to government student loans, then universities do have unlimited budgets.

Not only government. We have a huge bubble growing up (and when that one goes poof, the subprimes will merely by a pebble in the pond compared to that tsunami). Students get indebted over decades to pay for "their studies" (read, what universities now decree is the necessary to study). Banks just loan, who cares. 

 

Look at the state of indebtment (and related cost of studying) in France, England, America, Germany. In particular, look at the difference between the cost of studying in private schools and universities (INSEAD/HEC/WHARTON/HARVARD run at 50k+ a year currently).

Three years is 150k+, what a joke.

 

In ten or twenty years, this bubble will explode and people will wonder "how did we get there"?

 

Profits. And they're being served now.

Social Capitalist, dreamer and wise enough to know I'm never going to grow up anyway... so not trying anymore.

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Social Capitalist, dreamer and wise enough to know I'm never going to grow up anyway... so not trying anymore.

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post #102 of 102
3/14/13 at 8:48am
Quote:
Originally Posted by lightknight View Post

Not only government. We have a huge bubble growing up (and when that one goes poof, the subprimes will merely by a pebble in the pond compared to that tsunami). Students get indebted over decades to pay for "their studies" (read, what universities now decree is the necessary to study). Banks just loan, who cares. 

 

There's another issue at play in that as well. Forcing kids to go to college at all. US society has this thing that if you don't get at least a BA you are doomed as a failure. Going to a vo-tech cause you really want to fix cars for a living, culinary school cause you want to be a chef and so on is sneered at. 

And you have to go right away. Out of high school and into college. 

 

It's not like that back home. in the UK you are done with required school at 16 if you can pass the general exams. Those last two years are only for those kids that want to go to Uni and are basically like a US freshman year of 'liberal arts/core studies' classes. Then when you go to Uni you are basically only doing your degree work. If you don't want to go to Uni then you can get a job or go to a vocational college. If you want to go to Uni but not right off you can put it off for a couple of years and as long as you aren't living off your parents as a lazy ass with no job few folks blink about it. 

 

My American cousin finished high school and started college because he was pressured into it. He had no clue what he wanted to do, hated going to classes etc. At the end of his first term he dropped out and joined the military. His parents were livid at first. But he presented them the logical argument that he was just racking up loans to pay back that would be a waste if he wasn't devoted to studying. This way he could earn money to go to college without loans, figure out what he wanted to do with his life and not be a burden on them. While he was serving he got assigned to a tech division and fell in love with programming etc. He had already taught himself several basic languages while serving plus got certified on the military's dime for doing hardware and network for Macs, various server system etc. Got out and breezed through a BS and MS and all without a dime in loans other than that one semester which he paid off while serving. Apparently interest free even. 

 

But he's the exception not the norm. 

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