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Samsung exec: Galaxy S IV's plastic body balances manufacturability and 'premium feel' - Page 2

post #41 of 132
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone View Post

Plastic in automotive makes sense as does plastic in a cell phone. But plastic is plastic.

 

I think Apple uses aluminum because it is light weight, looks great and is recyclable. Plastic is more durable but so are plastic plates and utensils. That doesn't mean there is no reason to have fine China and silverware. iPhones fall into the latter category in terms of quality. If I planned on dropping my phone, I would probably use a ruggedized model of some sort but I don't plan on dropping it. I am very careful with it, just like I don't put the fine China in the dishwasher.


1.- Apple uses aluminum because it looks really good. Plastic is light weight, is recyclable and can look great with professional finish.

2.- Faulty analogy. Iphones v Galaxy do not compare to plastic house-ware v  China and silverware when it comes to price points.

3.- Using plastic/rubber cases defeats the purpose.

post #42 of 132
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hturt Seaker View Post

That's why Apple uses composites instead of oxidation prone aluminum. Wait....

If you leave your phone out in the rain it doesn't matter if the case oxidizes. I have never personally seen an oxidized aluminum consumer electronic device that was treated properly. I have a 6 year old aluminum Mac Pro sitting on my desk and it looks like brand new. Why has it not oxidized?

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post #43 of 132
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone View Post

So you are saying that Android phones are handed down, updated OS, and resold for years.


No, I am saying that the argument is invalid because it is based on personal experience. Based on my personal experience Elfs, unicorns and batman exist.


Edited by Hturt Seaker - 3/5/13 at 4:06pm
post #44 of 132
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaHarder View Post


Exactly... and the polycarbonate Samsung utilizes is some of the better advanced composite currently available, as it's light-weight, durable, highly scratch and impact resistant and can maintain its coloration throughout the entire substrate, which can never be said of devices manufactured from any type of metal alloy.

ROTFLMAO.

When did polycarbonate become an "advanced composite"?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hturt Seaker View Post


That's why Apple uses composites instead of oxidation prone aluminum. Wait....

While it's true that aluminum oxidizes, it forms a very thin oxide layer which protects the bulk material from further oxidation.
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post #45 of 132
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hturt Seaker View Post

Plastic is light weight, is recyclable and can look great with professional finish.

Some recycling facilities accept polycarbonate items, but most do not. Polycarbonates have no resin # and are categorized as "other", unless they have the #7 which stands for "other".

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post #46 of 132
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone View Post

If you leave your phone out in the rain it doesn't matter if the case oxidizes. I have never personally seen an oxidized aluminum consumer electronic device that was treated properly. I have a 6 year old aluminum Mac Pro sitting on my desk and it looks like brand new. Why has it not oxidized?


Scratch/drop it so that the coating is gone and you will see. Just because yours has not hit the floor or been scratched it does not mean it will not. People drops phones all the time.

post #47 of 132
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta View Post

While it's true that aluminum oxidizes, it forms a very thin oxide layer which protects the bulk material from further oxidation.

A white, ferrous like, oxide mark on my cellphone is not something I would call premium feel. The rust comes off with rubbing (say in your pants) and will oxide again. Not fashionable.

post #48 of 132
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hturt Seaker View Post

Scratch/drop it so that the coating is gone and you will see. Just because yours has not hit the floor or been scratched it does not mean it will not. People drops phones all the time.

I see Android users all the time using phones with cracked screens but I'm sure a little scratch or oxidation would be completely unacceptable. Phones have a maximum life expectancy of about 5 years. Even if you left a piece of uncoated aluminum such as the old aluminum windows, out in the elements for 20 years the oxidation would be so minimal that you could polish it back to new condition with no trouble at all.

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post #49 of 132
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone View Post

If you leave your phone out in the rain it doesn't matter if the case oxidizes. I have never personally seen an oxidized aluminum consumer electronic device that was treated properly. I have a 6 year old aluminum Mac Pro sitting on my desk and it looks like brand new. Why has it not oxidized?

It is. The oxide layer on aluminum is so thin it's essentially invisible.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hturt Seaker View Post

A white, ferrous like, oxide mark on my cellphone is not something I would call premium feel. The rust comes off with rubbing (say in your pants) and will oxide again. Not fashionable.

I call BS.

First, you're not dealing with pure aluminum. You're dealing with an anodized layer which involves additional of chemicals.

Second, you don't get a ferrous layer from aluminum under any conditions.

Third, the oxides of aluminum are never classified as rust.

Fourth the oxide layer of aluminum does not come off with rubbing (unless you're rubbing it with sandpaper.
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post #50 of 132
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hturt Seaker View Post

A white, ferrous like, oxide mark on my cellphone is not something I would call premium feel. The rust comes off with rubbing (say in your pants) and will oxide again. Not fashionable.

That is such BS. An iPhone that is in daily use is not going to oxidizes at all because it is essentially being polished all day long everyday.

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post #51 of 132
Originally Posted by Hturt Seaker View Post
A white, ferrous like, oxide mark on my cellphone is not something I would call premium feel. The rust comes off with rubbing (say in your pants) and will oxide again. Not fashionable.

 

Well, when any of my aluminum products starts to actually oxidize, I'll be sure to let you know.

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post #52 of 132
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta View Post

It is. The oxide layer on aluminum is so thin it's essentially invisible.
I call BS.

First, you're not dealing with pure aluminum. You're dealing with an anodized layer which involves additional of chemicals.

Second, you don't get a ferrous layer from aluminum under any conditions.

Third, the oxides of aluminum are never classified as rust.

Fourth the oxide layer of aluminum does not come off with rubbing (unless you're rubbing it with sandpaper.

I've seen aluminum get oxidized to the point that it became powder so yes it can be rubbed off.
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post #53 of 132
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta View Post

It is. The oxide layer on aluminum is so thin it's essentially invisible.
I call BS.

First, you're not dealing with pure aluminum. You're dealing with an anodized layer which involves additional of chemicals.

Second, you don't get a ferrous layer from aluminum under any conditions.

Third, the oxides of aluminum are never classified as rust.

Fourth the oxide layer of aluminum does not come off with rubbing (unless you're rubbing it with sandpaper.

Anodized aluminum has a deliberately oxidized coat to prevent further oxidation.
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post #54 of 132
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta View Post


It is. The oxide layer on aluminum is so thin it's essentially invisible.
I call BS.

First, you're not dealing with pure aluminum. You're dealing with an anodized layer which involves additional of chemicals.

Second, you don't get a ferrous layer from aluminum under any conditions.

Third, the oxides of aluminum are never classified as rust.

Fourth the oxide layer of aluminum does not come off with rubbing (unless you're rubbing it with sandpaper.

 

1.- Anodize is a chemical coating. Like all coatings it can be removed by scratching. In the industry we fix the oxidation with alodine, but it will do nothing to help the "premium feel."

 

2.- I said ferrous like for a lack of better description for those unfamiliar to it. See Exfoliation Corrosion.

 

3.- Agreed. This does not mean oxidation is not a problem though.

 

4.- Put it in your pocket with your keys. This will also likely lead to Dissimilar Metal corrosion with a bit of rain water.

post #55 of 132
Quote:
Originally Posted by dasanman69 View Post


I guess you didn't see when mythbusters did just that. To a surprisingly high gloss to boot.

 

LOL!  I actually thought about it when I wrote that, too funny.  That was a pretty cool episode.

post #56 of 132
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone View Post

That is such BS. An iPhone that is in daily use is not going to oxidizes at all because it is essentially being polished all day long everyday.


Someone has no understanding how oxidation works.

post #57 of 132
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone View Post

That is such BS. An iPhone that is in daily use is not going to oxidizes at all because it is essentially being polished all day long everyday.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hturt Seaker View Post


Someone has no understanding how oxidation works.

I believe when that shine dulls and fades, its called an oxidation.

post #58 of 132
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

 

Well, when any of my aluminum products starts to actually oxidize, I'll be sure to let you know.


You mean your *coated* aluminum products. Remove a bit of coating and we can start putting money on the table.

post #59 of 132
Originally Posted by Hturt Seaker View Post
You mean your *coated* aluminum products. Remove a bit of coating and we can start putting money on the table.

 

What manner of coating would my Mac Pro, first-gen iPhone, Cinema Display, MacBook Pro, and iPad have?

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post #60 of 132
Quote:
Originally Posted by dasanman69 View Post


I've seen aluminum get oxidized to the point that it became powder so yes it can be rubbed off.

 

Yes, me too. But not the aluminium on an iPhone or Mac.

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hturt Seaker View Post

A white, ferrous like, oxide mark on my cellphone is not something I would call premium feel. The rust comes off with rubbing (say in your pants) and will oxide again. Not fashionable.

 

 

Making shit up now.

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post #61 of 132
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hturt Seaker View Post


Someone has no understanding how oxidation works.

 

Talk about the pot calling the kettle black!

 

But there's a lot of misinformation about aluminum oxidation in this thread.  Any piece of aluminum exposed to air is already oxidized, you scratch it and it will oxidize again in a few picoseconds and it's basically just a few molecules thick at the surface. You'd have to scratch for a long long time to get any significant amount of oxide, so for most intents & purposes aluminum behaves like a metal that doesn't oxidize, even if it's not anodized.  Now aluminum may corrode in a gavalnic reaction if it comes in contact with say, copper, or if it comes in contact with something that dissolves the oxide layer like methanol, but that's another story.

post #62 of 132
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hturt Seaker View Post


Scratch/drop it so that the coating is gone and you will see. Just because yours has not hit the floor or been scratched it does not mean it will not. People drops phones all the time.


if that's the case, i'm sure there is website depicting all the "rusted" iphones. Since you seem to know everything, what's the link?

post #63 of 132
Quote:
Originally Posted by kForceZero View Post

 

Talk about the pot calling the kettle black!

 

But there's a lot of misinformation about aluminum oxidation in this thread.  Any piece of aluminum exposed to air is already oxidized, you scratch it and it will oxidize again in a few picoseconds and it's basically just a few molecules thick at the surface. You'd have to scratch for a long long time to get any significant amount of oxide, so for most intents & purposes aluminum behaves like a metal that doesn't oxidize, even if it's not anodized.  Now aluminum may corrode in a gavalnic reaction if it comes in contact with say, copper, or if it comes in contact with something that dissolves the oxide layer like methanol, but that's another story.

But... but... apparently the iPhone in my jeans pocket will corrode and leave an unfashionable stain on them!!!1! According to our new friend, Hturt Seaker.

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post #64 of 132
Quote:
Originally Posted by sennen View Post


 

Making shit up now.

 

-Refutes argument (At least he thinks he does) with passive aggressive comment and no evidence.

-Thinks he is cool.

 

 

 

 

 

 

post #65 of 132
Originally Posted by Hturt Seaker View Post

 

Galvanic corrosion is an electrochemical process in which one metal corrodespreferentially to another when both metals are in electrical contact and immersed in anelectrolyte. The same galvanic reaction is exploited in primary batteries to generate a voltage.

 

Good to know that if my iPhone ever gets struck by lightning that it will corrode. Otherwise it's probably fine. And my Mac Pro?


Annodizing is a common process used to further increase aluminum’s corrosion and abrasion resistance, as well
as a method to chemically bond colorant to the surface. Anodization is achieved by artificially thickening the natural oxide layer. This film can be made many times thicker than what would otherwise be formed. 

 

Extra protection.

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post #66 of 132
What does the premium feel matter when the phone is tucked inside a case?

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post #67 of 132
Curious as to why Samsung is getting so much favorable publicity on APPLEinsider though...

Somewhat concerning. Especially knowing how sites like this need to acquire funding...
post #68 of 132
Quote:
Originally Posted by kForceZero View Post

 

Talk about the pot calling the kettle black!

 

But there's a lot of misinformation about aluminum oxidation in this thread.  Any piece of aluminum exposed to air is already oxidized, you scratch it and it will oxidize again in a few picoseconds and it's basically just a few molecules thick at the surface. You'd have to scratch for a long long time to get any significant amount of oxide, so for most intents & purposes aluminum behaves like a metal that doesn't oxidize, even if it's not anodized.


Yes, aluminum + oxygen = Thin layer of corrosion. If it is left untouched and no PH changes happen, which is the very best case scenario.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by kForceZero View Post
  Now aluminum may corrode in a gavalnic reaction if it comes in contact with say, copper, or if it comes in contact with something that dissolves the oxide layer like methanol, but that's another story.

 

And Iphones are not tossed into bags/pockets with multiple metals and in contact with multiple solutions.

post #69 of 132

 

Quote:

Galvanic corrosion is an electrochemical process in which one metal corrodespreferentially to another when both metals are in electrical contact and immersed in anelectrolyte. The same galvanic reaction is exploited in primary batteries to generate a voltage.

 

Good to know that if my iPhone ever gets struck by lightning that it will corrode. Otherwise it's probably fine. And my Mac Pro?

 

If you had read further than the overview in Wikipedia, you would had read this:

 

"Dissimilar metals and alloys have different electrode potentials and when two or more come into contact in an electrolyte, one metal acts as anode and the other as cathode. The potential difference between the dissimilar metals is the driving force for the accelerated attack on the anode member of the galvanic couple. The anode metal dissolves into the electrolyte, and deposition is formed on the cathodic metal.

 

The electrolyte provides a means for ion migration whereby metallic ions can move from the anode to the cathode. This leads to the anodic metal corroding more quickly than it otherwise would; the corrosion of the cathodic metal is retarded even to the point of stopping. The presence of an electrolyte and an electronic conducting path between the metals is essential for galvanic corrosion to occur."

 

Easier: 2 different metals + electrolyte (like water, salt water is more effective though) = Galvanic corrosion.

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

Annodizing is a common process used to further increase aluminum’s corrosion and abrasion resistance, as well
as a method to chemically bond colorant to the surface. Anodization is achieved by artificially thickening the natural oxide layer. This film can be made many times thicker than what would otherwise be formed.

 

Extra protection.

 

***To the surface***

 

Also, if the Aluminum is to be painted is not going to be anodized since they will use primer.


Edited by Hturt Seaker - 3/5/13 at 5:40pm
post #70 of 132
Originally Posted by Hturt Seaker View Post
***To the surface***

 

Also, if the Aluminum is to be painted is not going to be anodized since they will use primer.

 

'Kay. And?

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post #71 of 132
Quote:
Originally Posted by allenbf View Post

What's the saying about polishing turds?

 

Watch out for the corn?

post #72 of 132

Interesting that neither my first gen iPhone from 2007, nor my old Powerbook G4 from 2004, both featuring aircraft grade aluminum, have any evidence of oxidation whatsoever, despite suffering horrendous abuse.

 

good try though.

post #73 of 132
Quote:
Originally Posted by jd_in_sb View Post

What does the premium feel matter when the phone is tucked inside a case?

 

when it's like mine and never in a case. 

 

Seriously, that's like asking why is tile better than linoleum if you have a mat on top of it...

 

The mat and the case come off.

 

And having a metal computer is pretty awesome too.

post #74 of 132
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hturt Seaker View Post

 

-Refutes argument (At least he thinks he does) with passive aggressive comment and no evidence.

-Thinks he is cool.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

cool...

 

which of those is the iPhone?

 

 

Want to see pictures of damaged, frozen, cracked, yellowed plastic?

post #75 of 132
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hturt Seaker View Post


You mean your *coated* aluminum products. Remove a bit of coating and we can start putting money on the table.

 

 

 

LOL 

post #76 of 132
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hturt Seaker View Post

 

-Refutes argument (At least he thinks he does) with passive aggressive comment and no evidence.

-Thinks he is cool.

 

No photos of iPhones or Macs there. As I said, you are making shit up.

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post #77 of 132
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hturt Seaker View Post
And Iphones are not tossed into bags/pockets with multiple metals and in contact with multiple solutions.

 

So your point about oxidisation/corrosion is completely irrelevant. Where's that unfashionable corrosion/oxidisation stain on your jeans now? Just stop making stuff up.

 

This guy should be banned for the nonsense he is spouting.

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post #78 of 132
Originally Posted by Hturt Seaker View Post
Anecdotal evidence logical fallacy.
 
This statement is itself a logical fallacy, the evidence isn't necessarily untrue merely because it's anecdotal.
 
My desk lamp is switched on and producing light as I type this, does this fact become untrue because I am the only one to witness it?
(Sounds like a variation of the good old tree falling in the woods question...)
It merely is more difficult for observer and challenger to prove or disprove.
 
Furthermore, without evidence, aren't your posts no more anecdotal than mstone's?

Edited by ChiA - 3/5/13 at 6:17pm
post #79 of 132
Quote:
Originally Posted by KDarling View Post

The Galaxy S3's body is polycarbonate.

Plastic is plastic, even with an old picture of you and the old lady . 1wink.gif
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post #80 of 132

Hturt Seaker,

 

Like 99.9% of people, who try to make a point against iPhone, you have as usual gone off base with your comments/rebuttals, since many people have provided logical feedback, that firstly iPhone is premium product, secondly majority of consumers have not had any issues with oxidation (I use majority in since probably (90% or more) and thirdly Polycarbonate is 'cheap' look and there is no logical information, you can provide me that change our minds, since many critics express this view for Samsung SIII.

 

You were trying to make a point about the iPhone and oxidation, probably because you thought, since this phone is made of Aluminium, it has problems with oxidation, which I may add, you  have not given any factual evidence that IF this does occur AND more important is an issue for the consumer.

 

Now you are trying to tell us about oxidation in general sense and all many of crap, which has no relevance to this discussion and really, you have not make your point about iPhone and you cannot let go.

 

Please for love of God, just stay silent and learn from your mistakes.

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