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Apple remains 'very optimistic' about upcoming products as analysts cut targets - Page 2

post #41 of 78
I don't know what to say about Apple. As a longtime Apple user and fan.. these days lately I have yet to see very little sparkly giddy excitement come about around Apple. Lets be honest I think since Steve's death, Cook has only released I think 4 or 5 products under his belt and the only product proving successful is the iPad Mini. iWork and iLife hasnt seen a product update in years, nothing "revolutionary" has come out of Apple the past few years and with any lack of TV advertisement ( remember the I'm a Mac, I'm a PC?) that is helping Apple gain some popularity is hurting Apple big time. I used to think Apple was going to do well without Steve Jobs because of these executives has been with Steven since 1997 but I'm beginning to lose faith. Its confusing really. I hope Apple picks up their dam balls off the ground and really return to "Apple" of earlier days when Steve was around and turn this world around one more time if not a few more times. Cause honestly, I really miss Steve Jobs at the helms. 1frown.gif
post #42 of 78
Cut target = a buy
Raise target = a sell

It always works .
post #43 of 78
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogifan View Post

 

 I actually think being so quite is hurting them these days.  If their new schedule is to go 6 months without any product announcement (assuming we won't see anything until WWDC) that's a long time to be silent and creates a vacuum that right now is being filled with FUD and D&G.  Part of me is hoping they have something to announce in April or May.  But another part is not wanting them to release anything that's not ready, and not to release just for the sake of it, just to fill a lull in the calendar.

 

I agree, which was my basic point: if they are going to be tight lipped like Apple under Jobs, then be tight lipped and stop letting useless bits like this leak. If they are going to be more open about new products, though, they need to actually be OPEN about them. This straddling the fence nonsense is getting old.

post #44 of 78
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post


It's the stock market. it will go up and down throughout the day. Those that can't fluctuation should not be investors.

 

Day? Try last few months, Sol. I've owned my current stock since 1997, so it's all gravy to me at this point since I'm not dumb enough to keep something so volatile in my retirement portfolio, but Apple is Tim's to lose, and so far I'm not exactly heartened by what I've seen or heard of his tenure in the big office. The market, it would seem, agrees with me, which is why he needs to shit or get off the pot already, as my grandpa loved to say.

post #45 of 78
Quote:
Originally Posted by popnfresh View Post

The 2013 roadmap shows the whole story of why AAPL has plummeted 37% in the last 6 months: innovation has stalled at Apple Inc. since the death of Steve Jobs.

Apple hasn't announced a major new product since the original iPad. That was 3 years ago. Every product since then has been a refinement of an existing product.

Wall Street understands that the only reason Apple is the dominant player in the marketplace today is because of its relentless innovation while Jobs was at the helm. They're betting that now that he's gone, Apple will revert to playing it safe, hence the steady sell-off. And so far they've been correct. Apple is well on its way to becoming just another tech company. like HP or Microsoft, where products are evolutionary rather than revolutionary and everything is designed by a committee. There's no Steve Jobs around with the vision to dream up insanely great products we didn't know we needed until he showed them to us. And there's no one to kick butts until the design matches the vision. Apple is on a fast track to mediocrity and The Street knows it.

For your information the iPhone was released 3 years prior to the iPad, while the iPod was released 6 years prior to the iPhone. So exactly how has innovation stagnated at Apple again? The street don't know crap!
post #46 of 78
Quote:
Originally Posted by popnfresh View Post

The 2013 roadmap shows the whole story of why AAPL has plummeted 37% in the last 6 months: innovation has stalled at Apple Inc. since the death of Steve Jobs.

Apple hasn't announced a major new product since the original iPad. That was 3 years ago. Every product since then has been a refinement of an existing product.

Wall Street understands that the only reason Apple is the dominant player in the marketplace today is because of its relentless innovation while Jobs was at the helm. They're betting that now that he's gone, Apple will revert to playing it safe, hence the steady sell-off. And so far they've been correct. Apple is well on its way to becoming just another tech company. like HP or Microsoft, where products are evolutionary rather than revolutionary and everything is designed by a committee. There's no Steve Jobs around with the vision to dream up insanely great products we didn't know we needed until he showed them to us. And there's no one to kick butts until the design matches the vision. Apple is on a fast track to mediocrity and The Street knows it.

 

EXACTLY! Everyone who continues to argue that APPL is extremely undervalued needs to reread the above, and remember the market rises or falls based on how investors perceive a company WILL perform down the road, not how it has performed or is performing. The price has been hovering in the low to mid 400's because the market is waiting to see if Apple will remain Apple, now that the last of Steve's products have shipped. They need to release something new, innovative, and market leading, and instead it seems like they are only slightly bumping up the specs and stamping an S on what's currently selling. That's fine for 2013, hell even 2014 most likely, but after that all bets are off.

post #47 of 78
Quote:
Originally Posted by popnfresh View Post

The 2013 roadmap shows the whole story of why AAPL has plummeted 37% in the last 6 months: innovation has stalled at Apple Inc. since the death of Steve Jobs.

Apple hasn't announced a major new product since the original iPad. That was 3 years ago. Every product since then has been a refinement of an existing product.

Wall Street understands that the only reason Apple is the dominant player in the marketplace today is because of its relentless innovation while Jobs was at the helm. They're betting that now that he's gone, Apple will revert to playing it safe, hence the steady sell-off. And so far they've been correct. Apple is well on its way to becoming just another tech company. like HP or Microsoft, where products are evolutionary rather than revolutionary and everything is designed by a committee. There's no Steve Jobs around with the vision to dream up insanely great products we didn't know we needed until he showed them to us. And there's no one to kick butts until the design matches the vision. Apple is on a fast track to mediocrity and The Street knows it.

 

Your post isn't original, it's been written a million times by trolls, and every single time it's still fucking stupid. A whole 3 years without a completely new product category? Oh Noes! It seems you have no sense or clue about Apple's history. How long between the iPod and iPhone? 6 years. In that time, they expanded the iPod lineup, as they're doing now with the iPad. iPhone and iPad? 3 years- and they started developing the iPad before the iPhone. 3 years is the absolute SHORTEST amount of time in Apple's history between product categories. And the iPad was "low lying fruit" as to speak, a product that people were fantasizing about for ages. There is no obvious "next" product now, as there was with a phone and a tablet. Everything Apple makes is some typie of computer- how many form factors are left, or make sense? Yet now, you're pretending as if 3 years is just an extreme amount of time between which to complete revolutionalize industries? As if this shit can happen on a regular schedule?? Jesus Christ.

 

Apple's purpose isn't to release some new widget every year to entertain superficial, easily bored people such as yourself. Their goal is to release game changing products that deserve to exist, and that have a long roadmap in Apple's future. 2012 was the omst aggressive year in Apple's history, and the busiest in terms of product releases, both hardware AND software. Not that I expect you to have a shred of context to realize this, but this is what Apple did JUST in 2012, which eclipses any other year in their history:

 

 

- Completely redesigned 15" MBP with highest resolution laptop  of that size in the world

- Completely redesigned 13" MBP with highest resolution laptop of that size in the world

- New iPad with Retina display- again, massive achievement

- Completely redesigned iPod touch

- Completely redesigned iPod nano

- Completely redesigned iMac- most significant change in years

- Completely redesigned iPhone- 1st change in screen size/aspect ratio since inception

- iPad mini- Completely new iPad line

- 4th generation iPad- fastest refresh in their history

- refreshed Macbook Airs

- refreshed classic MBPs

- refreshed Mac mini

- refreshed Apple TV

- Biggest Apple TV interface change in its history

- New iTunes- most significant update since it first launched a decade ago

- New iOS appstore- biggest update since it 1st launched in 2008

- iOS 6- major release of iOS

- OSX 10.8- major release of OSX

- New maps- launched a completely new mapping product from the ground up, not an insignificant accomplishment

- Transition to new dock connector + cable for all products, 1st change in the last decade

- A6 and A6X chip- custom designed chip that has set new benchmarks for performance and has gotten rave reviews from anyone who knows anything about chips

- significant updates to all OSX/iOS apps

 

Yeah, the company is is clearly sitting on their asses. Apple will release a completely new product category when they have perfected that product and figured out exactly how it will fit into their ecosystem and their future. Demanding they rush this process so you can have a new shiny thing is childish and idiotic. Cook has been on the job a bit more than a year. ONE YEAR. I don't think you have a fucking clue what innovation even means. 


Edited by Slurpy - 3/6/13 at 10:49pm
post #48 of 78
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cash907 View Post

 

EXACTLY! Everyone who continues to argue that APPL is extremely undervalued needs to reread the above, and remember the market rises or falls based on how investors perceive a company WILL perform down the road, not how it has performed or is performing. The price has been hovering in the low to mid 400's because the market is waiting to see if Apple will remain Apple, now that the last of Steve's products have shipped. They need to release something new, innovative, and market leading, and instead it seems like they are only slightly bumping up the specs and stamping an S on what's currently selling. That's fine for 2013, hell even 2014 most likely, but after that all bets are off.

Taking into consideration how long the iPhone and iPad were in development, how in the hell do you know that the last of the products that Steve was involved with have shipped?

Artificial intelligence is no match for natural stupidity.

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Artificial intelligence is no match for natural stupidity.

"A common mistake that people make when trying to design something completely foolproof is to underestimate the ingenuity of complete fools."
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post #49 of 78
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacGeek Pro View Post

I don't know what to say about Apple. As a longtime Apple user and fan.. these days lately I have yet to see very little sparkly giddy excitement come about around Apple. Lets be honest I think since Steve's death, Cook has only released I think 4 or 5 products under his belt and the only product proving successful is the iPad Mini. iWork and iLife hasnt seen a product update in years, nothing "revolutionary" has come out of Apple the past few years and with any lack of TV advertisement ( remember the I'm a Mac, I'm a PC?) that is helping Apple gain some popularity is hurting Apple big time. I used to think Apple was going to do well without Steve Jobs because of these executives has been with Steven since 1997 but I'm beginning to lose faith. Its confusing really. I hope Apple picks up their dam balls off the ground and really return to "Apple" of earlier days when Steve was around and turn this world around one more time if not a few more times. Cause honestly, I really miss Steve Jobs at the helms. 1frown.gif

I know, Cook has been on the job for a year and a half and no revolutionary products. I remember when Jobs came back and reinvented 123 markets in his first 20 days. It was frakking amazing! /s

Lack if TV ads? Do you even watch TV? There's been iPad/iPhone ads on every other show. Not sure how its hurting Apple as they sell record numbers every quarter.
post #50 of 78
Quote:
Originally Posted by popnfresh View Post

The 2013 roadmap shows the whole story of why AAPL has plummeted 37% in the last 6 months: innovation has stalled at Apple Inc. since the death of Steve Jobs.

Apple hasn't announced a major new product since the original iPad. That was 3 years ago. Every product since then has been a refinement of an existing product.

Wall Street understands that the only reason Apple is the dominant player in the marketplace today is because of its relentless innovation while Jobs was at the helm. They're betting that now that he's gone, Apple will revert to playing it safe, hence the steady sell-off. And so far they've been correct. Apple is well on its way to becoming just another tech company. like HP or Microsoft, where products are evolutionary rather than revolutionary and everything is designed by a committee. There's no Steve Jobs around with the vision to dream up insanely great products we didn't know we needed until he showed them to us. And there's no one to kick butts until the design matches the vision. Apple is on a fast track to mediocrity and The Street knows it.

3 yrs is along time. The iPhone took 6 years after the iPod. Wait, 6>3. Name the yearly revolutionary products Jobs announced. You should have 14-15 products in mind.
post #51 of 78
Quote:
Originally Posted by jungmark View Post


3 yrs is along time. The iPhone took 6 years after the iPod. Wait, 6>3. Name the yearly revolutionary products Jobs announced. You should have 14-15 products in mind.

 

SJ returned to Apple in 1996. Since then, Apple has come out with 4 products most could consider revolutionary: iMac, iPod, iPhone, iPad. That's 4 products in 15 years, or one almost every 4 years.  Tim Cook is being raked over the goals for not releasing such a product after only a year on the job- even while that year saw more major redesigns, refreshes, and expansion of product lines than any time in Apple's history, not to mention major software releases of both desktop and mobile platforms. But hey, no revolution in that year, so obviously innovation is dead and Apple is "on the fast track to mediocrity".

 

It shows you how entitled, whiny, spoiled, and cynical people have become (like popnfresh). You can bet this same person will mock and deride whatever new thing Apple comes up with. 

post #52 of 78
Quote:
Originally Posted by popnfresh View Post

The 2013 roadmap shows the whole story of why AAPL has plummeted 37% in the last 6 months: innovation has stalled at Apple Inc. since the death of Steve Jobs.

Apple hasn't announced a major new product since the original iPad. That was 3 years ago. Every product since then has been a refinement of an existing product.

Wall Street understands that the only reason Apple is the dominant player in the marketplace today is because of its relentless innovation while Jobs was at the helm. They're betting that now that he's gone, Apple will revert to playing it safe, hence the steady sell-off. And so far they've been correct. Apple is well on its way to becoming just another tech company. like HP or Microsoft, where products are evolutionary rather than revolutionary and everything is designed by a committee. There's no Steve Jobs around with the vision to dream up insanely great products we didn't know we needed until he showed them to us. And there's no one to kick butts until the design matches the vision. Apple is on a fast track to mediocrity and The Street knows it.

I think what people like you should realize is that it is utterly wrong to expect a breakthrough product every other year from one company. Actually I fully agree with SJ who said during the iPhone keynote that having just one one breakthrough product is already a blessing and rarely achieved. Having three is really special (he mentioned Mac, iPod, iPhone). Also the refinements apple does are still leading edge such as unibody enclosure, retina display, lightning, or simply overall trends such as leaving out disk drives, optical drives etc.
if you would apply a metric for innovation I'm sure it shows that apple is constantly outperforming most if not all of its competition.
Yeah, well, you know, that's just, like, my opinion, man.
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Yeah, well, you know, that's just, like, my opinion, man.
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post #53 of 78
Quote:
Originally Posted by tkell31 View Post

Cook calls everything they release "great' and "perfect" even when the newest items is modifying a prior product that was also "perfect."...

 

Actually, "perfect" only gets said a couple of times, and only once by Mr Cook:

 

post #54 of 78
Quote:
Originally Posted by Slurpy View Post

 

SJ returned to Apple in 1996. Since then, Apple has come out with 4 products most could consider revolutionary: iMac, iPod, iPhone, iPad. That's 4 products in 15 years, or one almost every 4 years.  Tim Cook is being raked over the goals for not releasing such a product after only a year on the job- even while that year saw more major redesigns, refreshes, and expansion of product lines than any time in Apple's history, not to mention major software releases of both desktop and mobile platforms. But hey, no revolution in that year, so obviously innovation is dead and Apple is "on the fast track to mediocrity".

 

It shows you how entitled, whiny, spoiled, and cynical people have become (like popnfresh). You can bet this same person will mock and deride whatever new thing Apple comes up with. 

Yes, I agree with this to a point, but....

 

1) We know, from Job's biography, that they had "solved" the TV problem. I don't think Apple are even looking at that these days.

2) They really seem to be slowing down on innovation within the iTunes/App store space, and the OS space. The latter is not necessarily Cook's fault, but iOS 6 had little of interest for most. And the former:  wheres the spotify competitor we were rumored. They did purchase that company a while ago - what, two years now? On the app store there is much which could be done - a trial version of apps. 

 

They could also use their cash to buy content, and give it out for free. That is, buy the rights in perpetuity to some old classic movies and give new customers rights to play them. Its about keeping people in the ecosystem.

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I wanted dsadsa bit it was taken.
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post #55 of 78
Quote:
Originally Posted by popnfresh View Post

The 2013 roadmap shows the whole story of why AAPL has plummeted 37% in the last 6 months: innovation has stalled at Apple Inc. since the death of Steve Jobs. .

Exactly - but not in the way you mean.

The 2013 roadmap is a fictional graphic made up by someone who has no inside information and whose history of predicting Apple's performance is dismal. Yet people are accepting it as gospel. THAT is the problem - that the analysts, hedge funds, mutual funds, etc are so quick to accept this silly "Apple has lost its innovation" meme.

1. Apple has never announced their innovative products until they were close to ready to ship. They could have a flying car that will sell for $19.99 and use $0.25 of fuel per year in 6 months and you'd know nothing about it..

2. Apple's 'revolutionary new products' are not late by any means. Apple has historically revolutionized a market every 4-5 years and it's only been about 3 years since the last time. But even if it's a little later than that, it doesn't support the 'innovation is dead' nonsense. Few companies do that more than once - and Apple has done it repeatedly.

3. EVEN IF innovation were dead at Apple and it had become just like every other company on the market, they're still grossly undervalued. The average company on Wall Street trades at 16 times earnings and doesn't offer a dividend. Apple trades at 9 times earnings (7 times cash-adjusted earnings) and offers a 2.5% dividend. WAY undervalued if it was just like everyone else in terms of innovation and future potential.

The reality is probably somewhere between 2 and 3. I don't for a second think that Apple's innovation days are over. They have built an incredibly powerful innovation machine and that doesn't go away overnight. And maybe it's true that it will slow down a bit - not so much because Jobs is gone but because they've already picked so much low-hanging fruit. But it's still a far better bet for the future than the likes of Nokia, Dell, Microsoft, and so on.
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post #56 of 78
Quote:
Originally Posted by asdasd View Post

Yes, I agree with this to a point, but....

1) We know, from Job's biography, that they had "solved" the TV problem. I don't think Apple are even looking at that these days.
2) They really seem to be slowing down on innovation within the iTunes/App store space, and the OS space. The latter is not necessarily Cook's fault, but iOS 6 had little of interest for most. And the former:  wheres the spotify competitor we were rumored. They did purchase that company a while ago - what, two years now? On the app store there is much which could be done - a trial version of apps. 

They could also use their cash to buy content, and give it out for free. That is, buy the rights in perpetuity to some old classic movies and give new customers rights to play them. Its about keeping people in the ecosystem.

1) how do you know. Perhaps they are waiting for content owners to agree.

2) iOS 6 has little interest? That's why it surpassed all other versions in share within weeks/months of its release.
Apple will release features when they think its good and ready.
Why would Apple buy iTunes content and give it away? Apple isn't a charity. Developers set the prices. I think people are already tied to the ecosystem. They don't need access to "12 Angry Men" for free.
post #57 of 78
Quote:
Originally Posted by jungmark View Post


1) how do you know. Perhaps they are waiting for content owners to agree.

2) iOS 6 has little interest? That's why it surpassed all other versions in share within weeks/months of its release.
Apple will release features when they think its good and ready.
Why would Apple buy iTunes content and give it away? Apple isn't a charity. Developers set the prices. I think people are already tied to the ecosystem. They don't need access to "12 Angry Men" for free.

1) I don't know. Which is why I said "I don't think they...". Who thinks there is an Apple TV this year? Nobody.

2) iOS had little of interest. Of course people update, it's pretty much automatic. My mother updated, but didn't notice much new.

 

Apple would buy iTunes content to lock people into the platform. You leave iOS, you lose the content. Of course people can still get illegal copies on other devices, but they always could. A locked in customer for life is a good deal for Apple. If they guy thinks "I like the new Android but I will miss all my content on the phone" he will be much less likely to move.

 

If they need to they could reward people who spend $X a year with the free stuff. Y free old movies, permanently owned, when you give your credit card and spend $X dollars. That'll keep them locked in. Not just for the free stuff, but the stuff they bought. It will teach people to buy on the App store, or iTunes. ( More of an issue as/if Apple move downmarket).

 

That use of a billion,or two, would be a better use than a dividend in my opinion.

I wanted dsadsa bit it was taken.
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post #58 of 78
Epic post from Slurpy quoted below. Cash907, popnfresh, MacGeek Pro, don't you dare do any more whining here without you first reply to it in detail. You have officially been humiliated.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Slurpy View Post

Your post isn't original, it's been written a million times by trolls, and every single time it's still fucking stupid. A whole 3 years without a completely new product category? Oh Noes! It seems you have no sense or clue about Apple's history. How long between the iPod and iPhone? 6 years. In that time, they expanded the iPod lineup, as they're doing now with the iPad. iPhone and iPad? 3 years- and they started developing the iPad before the iPhone. 3 years is the absolute SHORTEST amount of time in Apple's history between product categories. And the iPad was "low lying fruit" as to speak, a product that people were fantasizing about for ages. There is no obvious "next" product now, as there was with a phone and a tablet. Everything Apple makes is some typie of computer- how many form factors are left, or make sense? Yet now, you're pretending as if 3 years is just an extreme amount of time between which to complete revolutionalize industries? As if this shit can happen on a regular schedule?? Jesus Christ.

Apple's purpose isn't to release some new widget every year to entertain superficial, easily bored people such as yourself. Their goal is to release game changing products that deserve to exist, and that have a long roadmap in Apple's future. 2012 was the omst aggressive year in Apple's history, and the busiest in terms of product releases, both hardware AND software. Not that I expect you to have a shred of context to realize this, but this is what Apple did JUST in 2012, which eclipses any other year in their history:


- Completely redesigned 15" MBP with highest resolution laptop  of that size in the world
- Completely redesigned 13" MBP with highest resolution laptop of that size in the world
- New iPad with Retina display- again, massive achievement
- Completely redesigned iPod touch
- Completely redesigned iPod nano
- Completely redesigned iMac- most significant change in years
- Completely redesigned iPhone- 1st change in screen size/aspect ratio since inception
- iPad mini- Completely new iPad line
- 4th generation iPad- fastest refresh in their history
- refreshed Macbook Airs
- refreshed classic MBPs
- refreshed Mac mini
- refreshed Apple TV
- Biggest Apple TV interface change in its history
- New iTunes- most significant update since it first launched a decade ago
- New iOS appstore- biggest update since it 1st launched in 2008
- iOS 6- major release of iOS
- OSX 10.8- major release of OSX
- New maps- launched a completely new mapping product from the ground up, not an insignificant accomplishment
- Transition to new dock connector + cable for all products, 1st change in the last decade
- A6 and A6X chip- custom designed chip that has set new benchmarks for performance and has gotten rave reviews from anyone who knows anything about chips
- significant updates to all OSX/iOS apps

Yeah, the company is is clearly sitting on their asses. Apple will release a completely new product category when they have perfected that product and figured out exactly how it will fit into their ecosystem and their future. Demanding they rush this process so you can have a new shiny thing is childish and idiotic. Cook has been on the job a bit more than a year. ONE YEAR. I don't think you have a fucking clue what innovation even means. 
post #59 of 78

A friend told me last night she was "de-Apple'ing" herself, dumped her iPhone for a Note II and she loves it. Another friend chose a Note II over the iPhone. I think if Apple only releases an iPhone 5S with improved cam - thinner and new corners, another thinner iPad with better camera and new corners.... and that's it... and they do not release a larger iPhone till 2014 and stick with the "same ole" iOS that desperately needs to be re-written... more people will be bored by Apple and continue to "de-Apple" themselves. Hate to say it, but now many view Samsung as the innovator (along with MS to a much lesser degree).

post #60 of 78
Quote:
Originally Posted by asdasd View Post

1) I don't know. Which is why I said "I don't think they...". Who thinks there is an Apple TV this year? Nobody.
2) iOS had little of interest. Of course people update, it's pretty much automatic. My mother updated, but didn't notice much new.

Apple would buy iTunes content to lock people into the platform. You leave iOS, you lose the content. Of course people can still get illegal copies on other devices, but they always could. A locked in customer for life is a good deal for Apple. If they guy thinks "I like the new Android but I will miss all my content on the phone" he will be much less likely to move.

If they need to they could reward people who spend $X a year with the free stuff. Y free old movies, permanently owned, when you give your credit card and spend $X dollars. That'll keep them locked in. Not just for the free stuff, but the stuff they bought. It will teach people to buy on the App store, or iTunes. ( More of an issue as/if Apple move downmarket).

That use of a billion,or two, would be a better use than a dividend in my opinion.

Not that it matters, but you are counseling Apple to be sleazy. And you are putting yourself on the list of "not enough innovation" whiners.
post #61 of 78
Quote:
Originally Posted by asdasd View Post


Apple would buy iTunes content to lock people into the platform. You leave iOS, you lose the content. Of course people can still get illegal copies on other devices, but they always could. A locked in customer for life is a good deal for Apple. If they guy thinks "I like the new Android but I will miss all my content on the phone" he will be much less likely to move.

If they need to they could reward people who spend $X a year with the free stuff. Y free old movies, permanently owned, when you give your credit card and spend $X dollars. That'll keep them locked in. Not just for the free stuff, but the stuff they bought. It will teach people to buy on the App store, or iTunes. ( More of an issue as/if Apple move downmarket).

That use of a billion,or two, would be a better use than a dividend in my opinion.

Free stuff won't lock people in. Apple has a great retention rate with iDevices. It will never be 100%. Apple doesn't need to bribe customers to stay. They can almost guarantee the latest iDevices will be up to date and supported for at least 2 yrs. that should be incentive enough.
post #62 of 78
Quote:
Originally Posted by mesomorphicman View Post

A friend told me last night she was "de-Apple'ing" herself, dumped her iPhone for a Note II and she loves it. Another friend chose a Note II over the iPhone. I think if Apple only releases an iPhone 5S with improved cam - thinner and new corners, another thinner iPad with better camera and new corners.... and that's it... and they do not release a larger iPhone till 2014 and stick with the "same ole" iOS that desperately needs to be re-written... more people will be bored by Apple and continue to "de-Apple" themselves. Hate to say it, but now many view Samsung as the innovator (along with MS to a much lesser degree).

You should hate to say it. " . . .desperately needs to be rewritten..."—you and your friends are being suckered, as in seduced, by chrome, bling, stuff that "don't get you home."

This is a clash of psychological predispositions. Reasonable and tasteful people will stay with Apple. The bored and easily distracted will move to big-screen AndroidLand. So what? Apple can afford to lose these superficial people. Andy Ihnatko has fat fingers and maybe a fatter head.
post #63 of 78
Originally Posted by mesomorphicman View Post
Hate to say it, but now many view Samsung as the innovator (along with MS to a much lesser degree).

 

Yep, we know the general population is a bunch of idiots; why do you think they all bought Microsoft products in the first place? lol.gif

Originally Posted by asdasd

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post #64 of 78
Quote:
Originally Posted by Slurpy View Post

 

Give ONE example of Cook calling a SINGLE Apple product perfect. Just ONE. If you can't, then stop talking out of your ass. I'm tried of intellectually dishonest people like yourself just hyping horse-shit for the sake of it, which has no factual basis in reality, in order to smear and mock. 

 

Also, if you go by reviews, and customer satisfaction, Apple products by and large ARE pretty great. Every single Apple device released in 2012 got fantastic reviews, from the Retina Mabooks, to the iMacs, to the iPad mini. Why shouldn't Apple's executive team be allowed to use positive adjectives to describe their products? Their products are indeed great, as would aknowledge the vast majority of people who use them.  The fact that you're butt-hurt over the word "great" doesn't change that fact. 

I guess you dont read transcripts.  He called the 3.5" screen size of the iPhone4s perfect, and then when they changed to the 4" and was asked about making a larger size screen phone he called the 4" perfect

 

The fact you are immature enough to say someone is "butt hurt" tells me all I need to know about your mental capacity.  Thanks.

post #65 of 78
Quote:
Originally Posted by Slurpy View Post

 

Give ONE example of Cook calling a SINGLE Apple product perfect. Just ONE. If you can't, then stop talking out of your ass. I'm tried of intellectually dishonest people like yourself just hyping horse-shit for the sake of it, which has no factual basis in reality, in order to smear and mock. 

 

Also, if you go by reviews, and customer satisfaction, Apple products by and large ARE pretty great. Every single Apple device released in 2012 got fantastic reviews, from the Retina Mabooks, to the iMacs, to the iPad mini. Why shouldn't Apple's executive team be allowed to use positive adjectives to describe their products? Their products are indeed great, as would aknowledge the vast majority of people who use them.  The fact that you're butt-hurt over the word "great" doesn't change that fact. 

Oh, and someone else was nice enough to post of vid of him doing it, so just scroll up and hit play.

post #66 of 78
Originally Posted by tkell31 View Post
Oh, and someone else was nice enough to post of vid of him doing it, so just scroll up and hit play.

 

No, sorry, try again. This time with some actual context.

Originally Posted by asdasd

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Originally Posted by asdasd

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post #67 of 78
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacGeek Pro View Post

I don't know what to say about Apple. As a longtime Apple user and fan.. these days lately I have yet to see very little sparkly giddy excitement come about around Apple. Lets be honest I think since Steve's death, Cook has only released I think 4 or 5 products under his belt and the only product proving successful is the iPad Mini. iWork and iLife hasnt seen a product update in years, nothing "revolutionary" has come out of Apple the past few years and with any lack of TV advertisement ( remember the I'm a Mac, I'm a PC?) that is helping Apple gain some popularity is hurting Apple big time. I used to think Apple was going to do well without Steve Jobs because of these executives has been with Steven since 1997 but I'm beginning to lose faith. Its confusing really. I hope Apple picks up their dam balls off the ground and really return to "Apple" of earlier days when Steve was around and turn this world around one more time if not a few more times. Cause honestly, I really miss Steve Jobs at the helms. 1frown.gif

 

Well said MacGeek.  Doesnt mean prodcuts wont continue to sell well.  And it's not the worse thing for Apple to transition to a value and income investment.  I just think people want to see where margins wind up to understand what a 10-12 PE would mean for a share price.

 

I do think Jobs gets a little too much credit.  The iPhone is the driver behind Apple's success and really that was just a big improvement over products that were already on the market, it's not like Jobs came up with the idea for a smartphone.  The iPad is just a variation of a laptop and a phone.  Now they are faced with the challenge of actually inventing completely new products and finding out it isnt that easy.

post #68 of 78
Quote:
Originally Posted by Flaneur View Post


Not that it matters, but you are counseling Apple to be sleazy. And you are putting yourself on the list of "not enough innovation" whiners.

 

I am counseling a fairly normal sales tactic. They are locking people in with iTunes, the App Store, and iCloud already ( which is why you see all the stuff you ever bought in iTunes on the Mac). in iOS 7, they will make all purchases visible in all apps ( they already do in iBooks). iBooks where they give away free content. iTunes where they give away free content ( I just downloaded a free single today). All I am asking for is an accelerating of that simple policy.

 

Apparently, however, Apple is already sleazy.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jungmark View Post


Free stuff won't lock people in. Apple has a great retention rate with iDevices. It will never be 100%. Apple doesn't need to bribe customers to stay. They can almost guarantee the latest iDevices will be up to date and supported for at least 2 yrs. that should be incentive enough.

Apple is already doing some bribing. And it takes iCloud seriously. Thats all about lock in.

I wanted dsadsa bit it was taken.
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I wanted dsadsa bit it was taken.
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post #69 of 78
Quote:
Originally Posted by tkell31 View Post


I do think Jobs gets a little too much credit.  The iPhone is the driver behind Apple's success and really that was just a big improvement over products that were already on the market, it's not like Jobs came up with the idea for a smartphone.  The iPad is just a variation of a laptop and a phone.  Now they are faced with the challenge of actually inventing completely new products and finding out it isnt that easy.

"The iPad is just a variation of a laptop and a phone."

Sentence of the year so far. What a discerning eye you have, to see how easy it was for Apple's engineers to whip out this hybrid between a phone and a laptop. The mystery is why it took them years to do it, and why nobody did it before them. Maybe you could explain that.
post #70 of 78
Quote:
Originally Posted by Flaneur View Post




This is a clash of psychological predispositions. Reasonable and tasteful people will stay with Apple. The bored and easily distracted will move to big-screen AndroidLand. So what? Apple can afford to lose these superficial people. Andy Ihnatko has fat fingers and maybe a fatter head.

The days of Apple begin 2% of their market and that kind of philosophy is over. I'll stay with Apple because of lock-in and I generally am happy. My last (work-bought) Android phone was a disaster. The new ones look good. But I am sticking with the iPhone.

 

However - and I say this as someone who has bought exclusively Apple for 15 years, when the option was available -  if Apple is only appealing to silly snobs who get their kicks from being "refined" from consumer purchases, it is already doomed and the stock market is correct in its pricing.

 

I think they want higher market share.

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I wanted dsadsa bit it was taken.
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post #71 of 78
Quote:
Originally Posted by asdasd View Post

The days of Apple begin 2% of their market and that kind of philosophy is over. I'll stay with Apple because of lock-in and I generally am happy. My last (work-bought) Android phone was a disaster. The new ones look good. But I am sticking with the iPhone.

However - and I say this as someone who has bought exclusively Apple for 15 years, when the option was available -  if Apple is only appealing to silly snobs who get their kicks from being "refined" from consumer purchases, it is already doomed and the stock market is correct in its pricing.

I think they want higher market share.

You're interpreting this as an ego issue. This is the haters' point of view. Reasonable and tasteful people get pleasure out of using good things for their own sake. They are increasing in numbers way above the 2% of two decades ago because Apple and a few other companies have been cultivating this market, showing people how great good stuff is.

This is a big shift in American commerce. Quality has started to trump style. (Actually, Apple has shown that design and quality way outweigh style.) Samsung has been poisoning this new trend by gimmicking, but I'm pretty sure that Apple has permanently shifted and enlarged your old 2% figure. It's now up to about 30%, if you look only at phones, more than twice that if you look at tablets. Right?
post #72 of 78
Quote:
Originally Posted by tkell31 View Post


I do think Jobs gets a little too much credit.  The iPhone is the driver behind Apple's success and really that was just a big improvement over products that were already on the market, it's not like Jobs came up with the idea for a smartphone.  The iPad is just a variation of a laptop and a phone.  Now they are faced with the challenge of actually inventing completely new products and finding out it isnt that easy.

So why is it that only Apple is expected to innovate?

Quote:
Originally Posted by asdasd View Post

I am counseling a fairly normal sales tactic. They are locking people in with iTunes, the App Store, and iCloud already ( which is why you see all the stuff you ever bought in iTunes on the Mac). in iOS 7, they will make all purchases visible in all apps ( they already do in iBooks). iBooks where they give away free content. iTunes where they give away free content ( I just downloaded a free single today). All I am asking for is an accelerating of that simple policy.

Apparently, however, Apple is already sleazy.
Apple is already doing some bribing. And it takes iCloud seriously. Thats all about lock in.

Seriously, a free DRM-free song isn't going to lock someone in. They are locking people in with the ecosystem experience and simplicity.
post #73 of 78
Originally Posted by tkell31 View Post

The iPhone is the driver behind Apple's success and really that was just a big improvement over products that were already on the market, it's not like Jobs came up with the idea for a smartphone.

 

It's not like anyone claimed that, either.


The iPad is just a variation of a laptop and a phone.

 

*snort*


Now they are faced with the challenge of actually inventing completely new products…

 

Well, since they did it with the iPhone and iPad, I'm pretty sure they'll handle it.

Originally Posted by asdasd

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Originally Posted by asdasd

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post #74 of 78

No, I don't worry about innovation at Apple.  It takes a few years to develop and introduce another game-changer.

 

But I've suggested that they bring in a 5" iPhone Pro.  Also, the iPhone 5S in multiple colors.  It's just a natural evolution to keep high margins and consumer interest.  Samsung has proved that there is a market for bigger screens.  It doesn't hurt the Apple brand or margins to do a bigger and more expensive iPhone.

 

I think Cook is on the hardware.

 

What I "worry" about is actually the development of iOS.  I totally agree that iOS 6 is the best today.  But I think they can do more, much more.

post #75 of 78
Quote:
Originally Posted by igriv View Post

The public wants a bigger screen, but what Apple has said in the past (paraphrased) is that this would require a UI redesign, so this can only come in tandem with iOS 7 (or iOS 17, for the pessimists among us).

Source this. The iPhone is the #1 and #2 smart phone on the world. While I do believe a complimentary 5" is in the works, it isn't due to "the public". It'll probably have the same rez as the 5.
post #76 of 78
Quote:
Originally Posted by igriv View Post

The iPhone is popular despite its screen size. Here is a source:
http://www.businessinsider.com/chart-of-the-day-apple-iphone-screen-2012-12

or more anecdotally:

http://www.businessinsider.com/apple-has-to-make-an-iphone-with-a-bigger-screen-2013-2

So the public isn't demanding a larger screen. If they were, the iPhone wouldn't be at the top.

Didn't BI also suggested Apple make a Netbook.
post #77 of 78
Quote:
Originally Posted by igriv View Post

 

The iPhone is popular despite its screen size. Here is a source:

http://www.businessinsider.com/chart-of-the-day-apple-iphone-screen-2012-12

 

or more anecdotally:

 

http://www.businessinsider.com/apple-has-to-make-an-iphone-with-a-bigger-screen-2013-2

 

 

I understand.  But I want Apple to have the #1, #2, and #3 best-selling smartphones.

 

@jungmark An iPhone Pro with the same resolution as the iPhone 5S would be acceptable.  Still "retina."

post #78 of 78
Quote:
Originally Posted by igriv View Post

NO, I repeat, the iPhone is at the top DESPITE its screen. If Apple came out with a bigger phone (just increasing the width of the current iPhone to make it 4:3 would make me buy one as soon as I could get my hands on it), and the first of the links in my post said that 1/2 of iPhone users feel the same way. What part of this escapes you?

The BI link doesn't even link to the survey. We don't know the methodology either. How do you know people don't want a 4.1" phone.

And here's the deal. They have iPhones already and I highly doubt most of them would buy another phone if the next iPhone is only 4" considering the Note has been out for a year or so and yet iPhones are stll #1 &2.
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