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Google passes Apple as top U.S. mutual, hedge fund holding

post #1 of 28
Thread Starter 
Google's stint as Wall Street's new darling brought another milestone on Thursday, as shares of the internet search giant passed Apple to become the most-owned stock by the 50 largest actively managed mutual funds in the U.S.

iMacs


A new Citigroup report examining investments at the end of the fourth quarter names Google as the top holding among the largest mutual and hedge funds. Information compiled by Bloombergfinds Google shares now trading at roughly 25 times the company's profits, versus less than 10 times earnings for Apple. The publication notes that the gap is the widest it's been since June of 2005.

Shares of Google have surged recently, contrary to Wall Street's increasingly cautious outlook on Apple. The prevailing attitude among analysts appears to be that the Cupertino company's earnings are slowing in the face of heightened competition and perceived saturation of the premium smartphone market.

Investors are waiting to see whether Apple can open new avenues for revenue, potentially with a watch-like device or the ever-rumored Apple TV.

Google, meanwhile, is seen to have more room for growth not only in Internet search, where it holds a commanding 67 percent market share, but also in smartphone software. With a 70 percent share of the smartphone market, Android continually pumps money into Google's coffers through search engine traffic, ads and app royalties.

Google closed up $1.22 today at $832.60, while Apple also gained ground to hit $430.58, a $4.92 increase from the morning bell.
post #2 of 28

Who gives a ****? There is no longterm certainty in this, it means absolutely nothing. 

post #3 of 28

I hate to keep repeating myself, but remember the people who were saying that more funds and institutions would be buying into Apple because of the dividend? lol.gif

 

Well..............That worked out real nicely.1oyvey.gif

 

Apple needs the big funds and institutions, because there are so many shares of AAPL available, and when some of these big players are leaving, that's obviously not a good thing. Apple should cut down on the number of shares available, IMO.

 

For the time being, it seems like some of the big money players prefer Google, but trends can quickly change, and those same people will be jumping back into Apple when the time is right.

 

And I wonder what the people who claim that AAPL is too expensive have to say about Google? If $430 is too expensive for the average investor, then what about $832? That price doesn't seem to be scaring anybody, because Google's stock seems to be doing pretty good and is constantly on the rise. I think that small time investors don't matter at all. Who gives a crap about small time investors? It's the big time investors that run the show and Apple needs the big pocketed investors.

post #4 of 28

Hopefully the fog of fancy eyewear models will lift, the catalog of failures will be looked at again (Google TV- twice) and much much more. 

post #5 of 28
Android continually pumps money into Google's coffers through search engine traffic, ads and app royalties?

I'm puzzled. Most of Googles mobile income is from iOS. Apple commands a far greater share of web traffic even though Android "ships" more devices, and actually sells far fewer apps because of piracy. but they are better positioned because they give stuff away. Really?
post #6 of 28
Quote:
Originally Posted by Apple ][ View Post

I hate to keep repeating myself, but remember the people who were saying that more funds and institutions would be buying into Apple because of the dividend? lol.gif

 

Well..............That worked out real nicely.1oyvey.gif

 

I always thought that was a bad idea.  I felt like it wasn't broken and didn't need fixing.  Now that they decided to fix it, it's broken.

 

post #7 of 28
For a company that just admitted they willfully violated several patents

A non tech's thoughts on Apple stuff 

(She's family so I'm a little biased)

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A non tech's thoughts on Apple stuff 

(She's family so I'm a little biased)

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post #8 of 28
I always invest in funds that buy into institutions that claim to do no evil. Take April 15th every year.
post #9 of 28

Its actually an omen. Only if the hedge funds have enough, will they start dumping the stock and Google seems to be next in line

post #10 of 28

Maybe it's true: ANDROID is winning. 1oyvey.gif

post #11 of 28
Quote:
Originally Posted by Apple ][ View Post

I hate to keep repeating myself, but remember the people who were saying that more funds and institutions would be buying into Apple because of the dividend? lol.gif

 

Well..............That worked out real nicely.1oyvey.gif

 

Apple needs the big funds and institutions, because there are so many shares of AAPL available, and when some of these big players are leaving, that's obviously not a good thing. Apple should cut down on the number of shares available, IMO.

 

For the time being, it seems like some of the big money players prefer Google, but trends can quickly change, and those same people will be jumping back into Apple when the time is right.

 

And I wonder what the people who claim that AAPL is too expensive have to say about Google? If $430 is too expensive for the average investor, then what about $832? That price doesn't seem to be scaring anybody, because Google's stock seems to be doing pretty good and is constantly on the rise. I think that small time investors don't matter at all. Who gives a crap about small time investors? It's the big time investors that run the show and Apple needs the big pocketed investors.

 

With almost $150,000,000,000 in the bank I don't think Apple needs any of these guys.  These guys can go hedge their bets on Google!  Good riddance!  That is the great thing about the free market system, they know they can't completely leave Apple because they can't bet the farm on Google either!  If these guys really knew what they were doing they would have bought Apple at $89 but no that was too risky back then and there was no proof that the iPhone was going to be successful!  

post #12 of 28
Help me understand,

- Google has been effectively banned from China. Both officially for their search functionality by the government, and by Android phone manufactures who strip out all Google features (e.g. Google Play). Google's China revenue is ~ $0. In the biggest and fastest growing mobile market

- The company faces a major headwind in shift from higher desktop to lower mobile CPCs

- The company still has another $5-$7Billion it needs to write-off from the MOT acquisition

- Net income has been flat over the last two years

- Apple income in 2012 was 4X Google's

- Embarrassing products launches: Google TV, Q,

- 80% of incomes still from AdSense. A one trick pony

- It at risk at having to go to war against its biggest hardware OEM Samsung. Samsung effectively is Android

- Its table strategy has been hijacked by Amazon. All Google services are stripped out by Amazon

- 40% of its smartphone base is still running Gingerbread 2.3



Yet, its PE is 25 vs. 10 for Apple

Am I getting all this right?

Windows survivor - after a long, epic and painful struggle. Very long AAPL

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Windows survivor - after a long, epic and painful struggle. Very long AAPL

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post #13 of 28
Quote:
Originally Posted by curveddesign.com View Post

 

With almost $150,000,000,000 in the bank I don't think Apple needs any of these guys. 

 

Isn't a large portion of that money basically untouchable though? From what I understand, it seems like a big amount is basically caught in limbo, outside of the US, and it just sits there. Is Apple just waiting around for the US govt to grant them some sort of tax breaks? What if the US doesn't? Because that's been the case up until now.

 

I'm not an expert and I'm not going to claim to know what Apple should do with it's money, but I think that they should begin spending some of it on something useful.

post #14 of 28
Quote:
Originally Posted by Red Oak View Post

Help me understand,

- Google has been effectively banned from China. Both officially for their search functionality by the government, and by Android phone manufactures who strip out all Google features (e.g. Google Play). Google's China revenue is ~ $0. In the biggest and fastest growing mobile market

- The company faces a major headwind in shift from higher desktop to lower mobile CPCs

- The company still has another $5-$7Billion it needs to write-off from the MOT acquisition

- Net income has been flat over the last two years

- Apple income in 2012 was 4X Google's

- Embarrassing products launches: Google TV, Q,

- 80% of incomes still from AdSense. A one trick pony

- It at risk at having to go to war against its biggest hardware OEM Samsung. Samsung effectively is Android

- Its table strategy has been hijacked by Amazon. All Google services are stripped out by Amazon

- 40% of its smartphone base is still running Gingerbread 2.3



Yet, its PE is 25 vs. 10 for Apple

Am I getting all this right?

You've got it - except that you've overstated Apple's P/E. It's actually 9 - and closer to 7 after adjusting for cash.
Quote:
Originally Posted by "Apple 
[" url="/t/156366/google-passes-apple-as-top-u-s-mutual-hedge-fund-holding#post_2290128"]
Isn't a large portion of that money basically untouchable though? From what I understand, it seems like a big amount is basically caught in limbo, outside of the US, and it just sits there. Is Apple just waiting around for the US govt to grant them some sort of tax breaks? What if the US doesn't? Because that's been the case up until now.

I'm not an expert and I'm not going to claim to know what Apple should do with it's money, but I think that they should begin spending some of it on something useful.

It's not untouchable. They can bring it back if they want - they just have to pay taxes.

As for the rest, Apple is doing things with its money. After all, they're spending billions on dividends. They're bought quite a few companies. They're investing billions in capital equipment. They're spending billions more on pre-buying materials.

So why is the fact that they're generating more cash than the can spend a bad thing?
"I'm way over my head when it comes to technical issues like this"
Gatorguy 5/31/13
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"I'm way over my head when it comes to technical issues like this"
Gatorguy 5/31/13
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post #15 of 28
Makes sense and completely explains why analysts have been bad mouthing apple.
post #16 of 28
I just hope Apple doesn't feel pressured to unveil a product early because their stock prices are low. We don't want things that are going to be rushed. Stay focused and release a polished product like always.
post #17 of 28
Quote:
Originally Posted by genovelle View Post

Android continually pumps money into Google's coffers through search engine traffic, ads and app royalties?

I'm puzzled. Most of Googles mobile income is from iOS. Apple commands a far greater share of web traffic even though Android "ships" more devices, and actually sells far fewer apps because of piracy. but they are better positioned because they give stuff away. Really?

The market is dreaming , that is why .
post #18 of 28

Google passes Apple as top U.S. mutual, hedge fund holding

...by idiot, short-term investors not intelligent enough to create multi-billion dollar businesses, far less small businesses, by themselves.

 

 

Don't worry about the share price people.

 

It's not connected to the ability of the company to do well. It just reflects the expectations and imaginations of non-business types who will change their minds at the drop of a hat.

 

Here's the real formula:

 

"Make great products, which means you make lots of money, which means even short-term investors re-invest in the long run. Repeat, lather, rinse."

Apple Products: So good that their ‘faulty' products outsell competitor’s faultless ones...
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Apple Products: So good that their ‘faulty' products outsell competitor’s faultless ones...
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post #19 of 28
All I can say for GOOG is "Look Out Below!!"

Here's to hoping that my shares get called away at $850!!
post #20 of 28

- 40% of its smartphone base is still running Gingerbread 2.3





Gingerbread, Ice Cream Sandwich, Jellybean -- God help us.
 
post #21 of 28
Quote:
Originally Posted by Timbit View Post

I just hope Apple doesn't feel pressured to unveil a product early because their stock prices are low. We don't want things that are going to be rushed. Stay focused and release a polished product like always.

 

Let's hope they are forced to reveal the new Mac Pro early!  lol.gif   All kidding aside, I agree, they should stay focused and not let the the Wall Street soap opera cloud their judgement!  Except for the Mac Pro of course!  lol.gif

post #22 of 28

I would not be surprised to see them push GOOG up beyond AAPL in Mkt cap for the ultimate "Apple is doomed" headline.. 

They then buy into the false negativity created on AAPL, and sell into the false positivity it creates on GOOG.

 

We then get an inevitable GOOG crash and AAPL resurgence as the Hedge Funds switch back to 'the one they love the most' :)


Edited by monstrosity - 3/8/13 at 12:07am
post #23 of 28
Quote:
Originally Posted by arch View Post

Its actually an omen. Only if the hedge funds have enough, will they start dumping the stock and Google seems to be next in line


Glad to hear the big market players are now going to play their games on Google's stock.

Let them beat up Google, then we'll see them returning to play with Apple's stock again.   1devil.gif

post #24 of 28
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta View Post


You've got it - except that you've overstated Apple's P/E. It's actually 9 - and closer to 7 after adjusting for cash.

 

You have overstated too! Thursday closing Share Price = 430.58. Cash/share = 146 (at last earnings). EPS (last 4 quarters) = 44.10. So P/E = 6.45 after adjusting for cash. And not yet accounted for higher cash today.

post #25 of 28

Now that we know this is the case, it's likely a good time to sell Google stock....

post #26 of 28

And as a small investor, purchasing only into well diversified funds, why would I care? Apple down - Google up. Google down - Apple up.

post #27 of 28
Originally Posted by Slurpy View Post
Who gives a ****? There is no longterm certainty in this, it means absolutely nothing. 

 

Are you kidding? This is spectacular news!

 

NOW GOOGLE WILL EXPERIENCE THE SAME "COLLAPSE" THAT APPLE JUST DID!

 

Only with them the response will be the complete opposite. Instead of the company saying absolutely nothing, the true fans and intelligent people explaining why, and the pro-Google crowd flying in to claim victory, the company will scream and scramble from the rooftops claiming they're fine, the pro-Google crowd will say absolutely nothing, and the true fans and intelligent people (on both sides) will know exactly what's happening.

Originally Posted by Marvin

The only thing more insecure than Android’s OS is its userbase.
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Originally Posted by Marvin

The only thing more insecure than Android’s OS is its userbase.
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post #28 of 28
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

 

Are you kidding? This is spectacular news!

 

NOW GOOGLE WILL EXPERIENCE THE SAME "COLLAPSE" THAT APPLE JUST DID!

 

Only with them the response will be the complete opposite. Instead of the company saying absolutely nothing, the true fans and intelligent people explaining why, and the pro-Google crowd flying in to claim victory, the company will scream and scramble from the rooftops claiming they're fine, the pro-Google crowd will say absolutely nothing, and the true fans and intelligent people (on both sides) will know exactly what's happening.

 

Eventually it is likely.  Like Apples 'collapse' it won't be a real collapse, it will just be the artificial bubble that was built up deflating so the stock will return to a more normal level.

 

Fortunately Google as a company does not haveto 'scream and scramble from rooftops' from anything related to Wall Street.  Most companies CEO's and officers have to appease Wall Street and shareholders because if they become unhappy, the CEO is going to lose his or her job (look at HP).  Apple has to pay attention, but not really kowtow because they are in a strong position.  Google only has to keep shareholders happy to the extent that it is a nicety to make them happy so more people invest and Google gets more capital.  Google's officers and CEO's have immunity from Wall Street shenanigans because of how they structured their super-voting shares.  Larry and Sergei own substantially more than 50% (at one point it was upward of 70%) of the voting power (not actual shares) of Google.  They can pretty much do whatever they want- which is why they get away with doing some pretty crazy projects that Wall Street would cream other companies for doing.

 

Just like I think everyone should read the 'Steve Jobs' biography whether you're a fan or not, if you haven't read it 'Googled' is a great read and kind of funny how those two founders just kind of strategically didn't even care about making money when every other search competitor was shooting itself in the foot trying to focus on making money.

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