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First Look: Apple's iCloud data center site in Reno, Nevada - Page 3

post #81 of 102
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post



I can't restate in yet another way what I've already made as crystal clear as I can make them. You're either willfully being obtuse or you're your too ignorant to see what is painfully lacking from your definition of "register."


This entire conversation reminds me of my prior career as a program manager implementing improved redundancy and scalability in our product:

Auto-Deletion of Storage (versus unlimited storage previously)
Failover and Failback
Federated Identity
High Availability (99.999%)
Geographic Redundancy
Load Balancing
Moving Data on Storage Units
Moving Storage Units
Reuse of Storage Units

Unless someone has actually implemented similar features at such a scale they seriously can't believe the complexity of a project such as this. The business with which I was previously affiliated needed more than eighteen months of planning to develop the type of features being discussed at such a massive scale. Eighteen months but the best we could realistically do was implement those features in two phases in three years.

The business is one of two premium solution providers in that industry of dozens so we can fairly say that we had some excellent engineers.



On a completely different note, I truly wonder what is the purpose of all the data centers.
post #82 of 102
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blah64 View Post

 If anyone thinks we're not headed for Big Brother ville, it's time to pull your heads out of the sand.  It doesn't get much more invasive than monitoring your car 24/7/365.  You can bet the insurance companies are licking their chops over the possibility to monitor your location and speed 24/7 as well.

 

I can't see how that type of privacy invasion would be allowed any time in the near future so I'm not expecting tracking of that type to be mandated by California, however I'm in the same camp as your mentioned reporter. No way would I buy an electric vehicle if it came with a GPS monitoring device. I'm already annoyed by my insurance company requiring my milage reports because I have low milage insurance which has a minimum default of 7500 mile /yr when I actually only drive around 2500 miles/yr. I have consistently remained at this level for years but they insist that I validate the level of usage over and over about every couple months.

 

 I have two cars and a motorcycle but use public transit most of the time except on the weekends, but even then I only drive a couple miles on Saturday to the Market Place where there is a Home Depot and the bank to use the ATM. All vehicles together I only drive 2500 which they just don't believe and think I'm lying.


Edited by mstone - 3/10/13 at 10:10pm

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post #83 of 102
You could crop those screenshots, it would look more serious that way.
post #84 of 102
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

... that 5GB gets removed from the account and data utilized on that 5GB gets kicked off as part of your "you lose the 5GB" comment.

But which data?

They'll need to make up their mind before Sep 30 anyway.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post


Damn I want iTunes Movie Trailer.ipa as well. Stupid demographic demarcation.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

... Photostream and never clean it out, but I'm also not fond of taking pictures so it's mostly images I find online or screenshots I've taken.

But you know Photostream doesn't count again the 5 gig, don't you?
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

...or we might start thinking you're a California, hippie, minority, liberal looking for a handout with a Hilary 2016 bumper sticker on your electric car.

Brilliant!
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone View Post

'Hilaryous'

dito!
Quote:
Originally Posted by ClemyNX View Post

You could crop those screenshots, it would look more serious that way.

I think the whole point of the article was to show how iOS Panorama pics look like (¡)
post #85 of 102
Quote:
Originally Posted by EricTheHalfBee View Post

What's more interesting to me is the fact Apple is building two more data centres. That's a huge upgrade to their current system and goes far beyond just having redundancy.

Perhaps to support a streaming service? Or the rumored Apple TV ( which would require a lot of capacity)?

... Search ... maybe?
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post #86 of 102
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone View Post

I should probably consider that too. Mine all have iCloud back up turned off. I looked at my storage just now and I have 24.81 of 25GB. Just my mail is being used and there isn't much of that. I almost never back up my iDevices although I do always back up my computer data to the data center or detachable storage. I just don't keep anything on iDevices that I can't re-download. I'll take a look at it when I get back to wifi. I don't want to use up my cell data right now.

On a parallel issue ... my wife got a message that her 5 Gigs was used up and she needed to buy more. I should add she backs up a MBP, iPad and iPhone to iCloud. I am not sure what on earth put her over the limit but whatever ... she didn't tell me for a few days. In fact not until all her Mail vanished and she only had the last three days in her in box. I upgraded her storage and cleared out a few iWorks docs. Still no mail ... I called Apple and they said there was nothing they could do. Thankfully I remembered we have wireless TimeMachine although to be honest I wasn't sure mail would be there since it is on the cloud with SMTP I assumed. But to my relief, sure enough I was able to retrieve all her mail from TM without issue. Had we not had TM there would have been a lot of problems since as a Realtor who is very busy her mail was full of on going contracts flying back and forth as PDFs.

I was shocked that she lost everything that fast to be honest, it seemed very un Apple to me.
Enjoying the new Mac Pro ... it's smokin'
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post #87 of 102
Quote:
Originally Posted by digitalclips View Post

On a parallel issue ... my wife got a message that her 5 Gigs was used up and she needed to buy more. I should add she backs up a MBP, iPad and iPhone to iCloud. I am not sure what on earth put her over the limit but whatever ... she didn't tell me for a few days. In fact not until all her Mail vanished and she only had the last three days in her in box. I upgraded her storage and cleared out a few iWorks docs. Still no mail ... I called Apple and they said there was nothing they could do. Thankfully I remembered we have wireless TimeMachine although to be honest I wasn't sure mail would be there since it is on the cloud with SMTP I assumed. But to my relief, sure enough I was able to retrieve all her mail from TM without issue. Had we not had TM there would have been a lot of problems since as a Realtor who is very busy her mail was full of on going contracts flying back and forth as PDFs.

I was shocked that she lost everything that fast to be honest, it seemed very un Apple to me.

Gees, that would spook me out. Which happened, actually, but with my Calendar. I keep 3 (Private, Work & some Association I do some work for) and my Private Calendar vanished from my iPhone. Since it's on iCloud, I couldn't retrieve it from my iPad or Mac. So I restored a backup (I do it locally and not through iCloud) and after a restore, when you open Calendar (or Mail, Contacts) it immediately syncs with iCloud and therefore my Private Calendar vanished again. Totally no way around it, but was fortunate to have a HDD with a recent image from my bootdrive and was able to restore a cache file which I found out was not being backed up by Time Machine.
post #88 of 102
Dat Map picture. Really, Ai...

Also, wise use of Apple Maps. Only usable for america (particularly California though), but at least it works there 1tongue.gif

Social Capitalist, dreamer and wise enough to know I'm never going to grow up anyway... so not trying anymore.

 

http://m.ign.com/articles/2014/07/16/7-high-school-girls-are-kickstarting-their-awa...

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Social Capitalist, dreamer and wise enough to know I'm never going to grow up anyway... so not trying anymore.

 

http://m.ign.com/articles/2014/07/16/7-high-school-girls-are-kickstarting-their-awa...

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post #89 of 102

Simple, with every iOS device you include a code on a card, similar to an iTunes Gift Card, that adds 5GB of storage to your account for free. Once the code is used it can't be used again. Of course, if you ever sell your iOS device the new buyer wouldn't get the extra storage, but that is just part of buying something used.

post #90 of 102
Quote:
Originally Posted by PhilBoogie View Post

Gees, that would spook me out. Which happened, actually, but with my Calendar. I keep 3 (Private, Work & some Association I do some work for) and my Private Calendar vanished from my iPhone. Since it's on iCloud, I couldn't retrieve it from my iPad or Mac. So I restored a backup (I do it locally and not through iCloud) and after a restore, when you open Calendar (or Mail, Contacts) it immediately syncs with iCloud and therefore my Private Calendar vanished again. Totally no way around it, but was fortunate to have a HDD with a recent image from my bootdrive and was able to restore a cache file which I found out was not being backed up by Time Machine.

I had a vicious circle with MobileMe once. I seem to recall I had to delete and start over to break it and have the one true master file on line and all sync to that. I somehow had a multi-dependency set up where the calendars were syncing in an endless loop. In my case they kept adding over and over rather than deleting. I think one of the problems is when we have had .Mac then MobileMe then iCoud and try to do things the way we did and I suspect it all works great if you are a newbie rather than transferring on from an previous system set up. It can get pretty scary if your business is involved.
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post #91 of 102
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post



I can't restate in yet another way what I've already made as crystal clear as I can make them. You're either willfully being obtuse or you're your too ignorant to see what is painfully lacking from your definition of "register."

Sorry, but you're the one being obtuse.

1. Apple already has a system in place to register new devices. There are no problems with people circumventing that system - you register a device only once and you can't register it again.

2. Apple already has a system in place to give free storage to people who register with iCloud. That storage space can be used to back up your idevices.

3. If Apple wanted to, they could add 5 GB to the storage space every time your register a device and link it to iCloud. The mechanism is already in place and nothing new is required (except the code to change the amount of space you're allocated).

4. Once the space is allocated to an iCloud account, it stays on that iCloud account. Nothing changes if you sell the phone, smash it with a hammer or wipe it and jailbreak it. The extra storage space continues to be allocated to the original iCloud account.

You haven't explained why that is so difficult or why it wouldn't work. Instead, you keep throwing out scenarios that have nothing to do with what I've just described. So please tell us exactly why that wouldn't work.
"I'm way over my head when it comes to technical issues like this"
Gatorguy 5/31/13
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"I'm way over my head when it comes to technical issues like this"
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post #92 of 102
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacBook Pro View Post

This entire conversation reminds me of my prior career as a program manager implementing improved redundancy and scalability in our product:

Auto-Deletion of Storage (versus unlimited storage previously)
Failover and Failback
Federated Identity
High Availability (99.999%)
Geographic Redundancy
Load Balancing
Moving Data on Storage Units
Moving Storage Units
Reuse of Storage Units

Unless someone has actually implemented similar features at such a scale they seriously can't believe the complexity of a project such as this. The business with which I was previously affiliated needed more than eighteen months of planning to develop the type of features being discussed at such a massive scale. Eighteen months but the best we could realistically do was implement those features in two phases in three years.

The business is one of two premium solution providers in that industry of dozens so we can fairly say that we had some excellent engineers..

That's all true. However, it's irrelevant. Apple already has all of that in place. Yes, they might have to add new servers or more storage for existing servers, but the infrastructure is already there. What I am proposing doesn't require any significant changes.
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post #93 of 102
Quote:
Originally Posted by PhilBoogie View Post

But you know Photostream doesn't count again the 5 gig, don't you?

Now that you mention it I recall that being said.

What I'd love is for the rebirth of iDisk as a modern, secure Dropbox competitor. It's amazing how many of my Apple devices are connected and connected to others but I still use Dropbox for data.

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"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

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post #94 of 102
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by PhilBoogie View Post

But you know Photostream doesn't count again the 5 gig, don't you?

Now that you mention it I recall that being said.

What I'd love is for the rebirth of iDisk as a modern, secure Dropbox competitor. It's amazing how many of my Apple devices are connected and connected to others but I still use Dropbox for data.

After 3 (?) reports on their servers being hacked (or whatever) I don't think it's the best place for my personal data (password list and such) to store on their service, so I deleted my docs and the app. I downloaded a different one but still haven't configured and, thusly, used it. Perhaps I just seem to be doing ok with the current apps that sync with iCloud. Or my needs have changed.

But yes, rebirth of iDisk would be great - perhaps that new datacenter is for that. Or for Videostream; I seriously do not understand why it is so difficult to get video's shot with my iPhone back onto my Mac/Internet. I could use Aperture, and presume iPhoto can do as well, but I want it all in iTunes, because of the easy syncing. It was conceived as the hub, why won't it work that way? But I digress...
post #95 of 102
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta View Post

Sorry, but you're the one being obtuse.

1. Apple already has a system in place to register new devices. There are no problems with people circumventing that system - you register a device only once and you can't register it again.

2. Apple already has a system in place to give free storage to people who register with iCloud. That storage space can be used to back up your idevices.

3. If Apple wanted to, they could add 5 GB to the storage space every time your register a device and link it to iCloud. The mechanism is already in place and nothing new is required (except the code to change the amount of space you're allocated).

4. Once the space is allocated to an iCloud account, it stays on that iCloud account. Nothing changes if you sell the phone, smash it with a hammer or wipe it and jailbreak it. The extra storage space continues to be allocated to the original iCloud account.

You haven't explained why that is so difficult or why it wouldn't work. Instead, you keep throwing out scenarios that have nothing to do with what I've just described. So please tell us exactly why that wouldn't work.

As annoyed as I am by your lack of comprehension I'll throw you another bone in the form of three more scenarios:

1) A user buys a new iPad. They plug it into their Mac and it restores from a backup. They have 3 iCloud accounts. How does iCloud automatically know which one gets the extra 5GB? According to you this is easy and it's when you register the device. So which is it? At the very least there would have to be an option in iOS that would let you choose which one of multiple accounts you get to apply the one time 5GB? How is that as simple as increasing capacity on the back end?

2a) A user applies it to one iCloud account but soon after realizes they applied it to the wrong one. With your design there is absolutely no recourse for switching the allotment but they really don't want that data applied to the iCloud account they use for junk mail or an address they no long want to use (for whatever reason). There only recourse is to return their new device to the Apple within the 2 week period — remember there is no restocking fee — so they do this again.

2b) A user needs more space for iCloud and doesn't want to wait for a year or two to buy more Apple gear so he gets this idea after reading a post by SolipsismX on AppleInsider on the downfalls of jragosta's enacted system that you can buy a new device "register" it, return it for a full refund, and keep the data, so he buys as many of the cheapest iPod Touches he can afford to get the extra space then returns all these opened and "registered" devices that 1) can no longer sold as new, 2) won't get anyone who buys them as refurbished the extra 5GB, and 3) are now costing Apple money on giving away storage, shipping products for the purpose of giving away storage, waisting their employee's time, and affecting their refurb sales where it's now a hit or miss in this extra 5GB of storage from iCloud when you "register" the device.

Of course, this is where you can say this won't happen often, or that it's not a big deal, or that Apple can reset those refurbished devices, or that if you return a device you lose anything you gained from that "register" but that's all additional effort, additional steps, additional consideration that need to be planned for, detailed, thought out, and worked out before your simple plan can be made a reality.

So how is all that as easy as giving everyone more space which mostly needs to get with the datacenter staff to make sure they have the ability to support any extra capacity needs that might arise (which at this point is pretty doubtful considering how limited iCloud is without a Dropbox-like system for sharing files)?
Edited by SolipsismX - 3/11/13 at 5:29pm

"The real haunted empire?  It's the New York Times." ~SockRolid

"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

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"The real haunted empire?  It's the New York Times." ~SockRolid

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post #96 of 102
Quote:
Originally Posted by digitalclips View Post

I think one of the problems is when we have had .Mac then MobileMe then iCoud and try to do things the way we did and I suspect it all works great if you are a newbie rather than transferring on from an previous system set up. It can get pretty scary if your business is involved.

I actually have that very same feeling/suspicion, and sometimes feel like exporting all my info from Mail, Calendar and Calendar and wipe out my iCloud account (or create a new one, if feasible) and import everything 'freshly'.
post #97 of 102
Quote:
Originally Posted by PhilBoogie View Post

After 3 (?) reports on their servers being hacked (or whatever) I don't think it's the best place for my personal data (password list and such) to store on their service, so I deleted my docs and the app. I downloaded a different one but still haven't configured and, thusly, used it. Perhaps I just seem to be doing ok with the current apps that sync with iCloud. Or my needs have changed.

But yes, rebirth of iDisk would be great - perhaps that new datacenter is for that. Or for Videostream; I seriously do not understand why it is so difficult to get video's shot with my iPhone back onto my Mac/Internet. I could use Aperture, and presume iPhoto can do as well, but I want it all in iTunes, because of the easy syncing. It was conceived as the hub, why won't it work that way? But I digress...

1) Hacks on Dropbox? I store my 1Password file on there as per the app. That file is encrypted but I also use a very, very, very long password for Dropbox just to be safe.

2) It's hard to say what they are planning for since these things are so far out. It could just be planned growth but I doubt it. I just wish they were better at it at this point. Google was brilliant with Gmail. invitations at first and as they could handle more users they increased the number of invitations you received until they finally opened it up to all. They also grew your storage from the initial 1GB (which was so amazing at the time). I'm using 2.7GB of 10.1GB on Gmail as I've never once deleted anything.

"The real haunted empire?  It's the New York Times." ~SockRolid

"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

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"The real haunted empire?  It's the New York Times." ~SockRolid

"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

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post #98 of 102
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta View Post

3. If Apple wanted to, they could add 5 GB to the storage space every time your register a device and link it to iCloud. The mechanism is already in place and nothing new is required (except the code to change the amount of space you're allocated).

But what happens if you use a friends' iPhone, after he or she has backed it up and you restore your own back onto it, register it and return the phone? Sorry, don't want to interfere with your discussion with sol here, but merely 'thinking out loud'

edit: see that sol thinks similarly
post #99 of 102
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post
1) Hacks on Dropbox? I store my 1Password file on there as per the app. That file is encrypted but I also use a very, very, very long password for Dropbox just to be safe.

 

On this, I'm ticked off that iCloud has an UPPER password length limit. What's up with that? I can't use the entirety of my usual password there. Though I'm happy I got in on the beta before they changed their password requirements. I'm not forced to use a capital and a number! So I'll stick with what I have for a good while.

Originally posted by Relic

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post #100 of 102
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

On this, I'm ticked off that iCloud has an UPPER password length limit. What's up with that? I can't use the entirety of my usual password there. Though I'm happy I got in on the beta before they changed their password requirements. I'm not forced to use a capital and a number! So I'll stick with what I have for a good while.

I seem to recall that being an issue for me. My 1Password password generator is set at 31 characters. They list all these requirements but not an upper limit to the length. I'm certain it doesn't affect most people but I do wish it were at least stated.

"The real haunted empire?  It's the New York Times." ~SockRolid

"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

Reply

"The real haunted empire?  It's the New York Times." ~SockRolid

"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

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post #101 of 102
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

1) Hacks on Dropbox? I store my 1Password file on there as per the app. That file is encrypted but I also use a very, very, very long password for Dropbox just to be safe.

July 2011 " Dropbox sheepishly admitted that it had inadvertently published code on its web site that allowed anyone to sign in to any Dropbox account without credentials"

http://www.zdnet.com/dropbox-gets-hacked-again-7000001928/

Dropbox confirms it got hacked, will offer two-factor authentication. Source

And more stuff like that, though it's not all 'compromised personal data'.
post #102 of 102
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

As annoyed as I am by your lack of comprehension but I'll through you another bone as two more scenarios:

1) A user buys a new iPad. They plug it into their Mac and it restores from a backup. They have 3 iCloud accounts. How does iCloud automatically know which one gets the extra 5GB? According to you this is easy and it's when you register the device. So which is it? At the very least there would have to be an option in iOS that would let you choose which one of multiple accounts you get to apply the one time 5GB? How is that as simple as increasing capacity on the back end?

2a) A user applies it to one iCloud account but soon after realizes they applied it to the wrong one. With your design there is absolutely no recourse for switching the allotment but they really don't want that data applied to the iCloud account they use for junk mail or an address they no long want to use (for whatever reason). There only recourse is to return their new device to the Apple within the 2 week period — remember there is no restocking fee — so they do this again.

2b) A user needs more space for iCloud and doesn't want to wait for a year or two to buy more Apple gear so he gets this idea after reading a post by SolipsismX on AppleInsider on the downfalls of jragosta's enacted system that you can buy a new device "register" it, return it for a full refund, and keep the data, so he buys as many of the cheapest iPod Touches he can afford to get the extra space then returns all these opened and "registered" devices that 1) can no longer sold as new, 2) won't get anyone who buys them as refurbished the extra 5GB, and 3) are now costing Apple money on giving away storage, shipping products for the purpose of giving away storage, waisting their employee's time, and affecting their refurb sales where it's now a hit or miss in this extra 5GB of storage from iCloud when you "register" the device.

Of course, this is where you can say this won't happen often, or that it's not a big deal, or that Apple can reset those refurbished devices, or that if you return a device you lose anything you gained from that "register" but that's all additional effort, additional steps, additional consideration that need to be planned for, detailed, thought out, and worked out before your simple plan can be made a reality.

So how is all that as easy as giving everyone more space which mostly needs to get with the datacenter staff to make sure they have the ability to support any extra capacity needs that might arise (which at this point is pretty doubtful considering how limited iCloud is without a Dropbox-like system for sharing files)?


It is very easy to see who has actually given serious thought to or implemented data centers for a large and diverse customer install base.
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