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In-app purchase in spotlight again as boy racks up ?1,000 iPad bill - Page 2

post #41 of 81
3/13/13 at 2:53pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gazoobee View Post

Yeah, but as little as twenty years ago, a parent trying to blame Apple for something like this would be "outrageous" and they would get no sympathy at all from the press.  

Today it's the front page of all the British newspapers and the opinion of the media outlets and most of the opinion of the readers falls on the side of the parents.  That's a big change.  People really *are* much more selfish and self-centred and they really *do* have a greatly increased sense of entitlement than at any time for at least the last 100 years or so.  

The targets have changed but humanity has not. 100 years ago we blamed things on false science or even just more superstition but today we have a lot more information in our reach but with that excessive amount of info comes the ability to miss something because there is so much to absorb. Apple wasn't around then but if you go back to before the iPhone there was no inexpensive Apple product that could easily be tied to excessive costs or usage. Even the iPods didn't have any wireless capabilities and there was no app store.

Has there ever been a generation that hasn't said that they newer one is more spoiled and more entitled than there's at that age? Perhaps during a prolonged war that can be said but in general I think that's a common sentiment because of the way we recall our own history is emotional and selective, not objective.

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post #42 of 81
3/13/13 at 2:56pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

The targets have changed but humanity has not. 100 years ago we blamed things on false science or even just more superstition but today we have a lot more information in our reach but with that excessive amount of info comes the ability to miss something because there is so much to absorb. Apple wasn't around then but if you go back to before the iPhone there was no inexpensive Apple product that could easily be tied to excessive costs or usage. Even the iPods didn't have any wireless capabilities and there was no app store.

Has there ever been a generation that hasn't said that they newer one is more spoiled and more entitled than there's at that age? Perhaps during a prolonged war that can be said but in general I think that's a common sentiment because of the way we recall our own history is emotional and selective, not objective.

Good thing pitch forks and torches aren't so easy to find anymore.
"A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject" - Winston Churchill
"Just because something is deemed the law doesn't make it just" - SolipsismX
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"A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject" - Winston Churchill
"Just because something is deemed the law doesn't make it just" - SolipsismX
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post #43 of 81
3/13/13 at 3:15pm
God, these people aren't giving us Brits a good image.
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post #44 of 81
3/13/13 at 3:16pm

It's "Sterling" ;) But I agree. Some people over here are duuuuuumb.

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post #45 of 81
3/13/13 at 3:22pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post

"Theo is only just eight," said Nick Rowland-Fry, 

 

And thus, Nick, he shouldn't have been playing a game that is rated 12 and over without at least supervision etc.


Edited by charlituna - 3/13/13 at 3:38pm
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post #46 of 81
3/13/13 at 3:24pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by HawkBlade View Post

How about a AppleID for that unit without a CC on it.  Plenty of free email host's out there.  This will prevent "kid buy" syndrome by not even letting them buy anything.  

 

So does restrictions which have been around since the first iPad if not sooner

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post #47 of 81
3/13/13 at 3:27pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by winstein2010 View Post

Android has a "Kids Mode" App that locks the device so there are no in-app purchase possible.  I think Apple should implement something similar:  A kid mode that the user cannot change settings and a pre-set limit on how much the kid can spend a week or a month.

 

They have had restrictions since the iPad released. As well as allowance accounts, gift cards etc that can limit purchases 

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post #48 of 81
3/13/13 at 3:28pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by darkpaw View Post

God, these people aren't giving us Brits a good image.

Oh, that ship sailed years ago…

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post #49 of 81
3/13/13 at 3:28pm

Perhaps the biggest reasons against freemium games is how ridiculous these in-app currencies cost. Freemium games should have a maximum ceiling of $49.99 or so (certainly not higher than $99.99), at which point the game should convert to premium game with all the locked contents unlocked.

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post #50 of 81
3/13/13 at 3:30pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by RichL View Post

I think developers need to take a bit of responsibility here. Who decided that it would be a good idea to put a $99.99 IAP into a kids game? It's only going to cause trouble.

 

This game is rated for older kids. Not their fault a parent is letting an 8 year old play a game meant for older kids. Which is often been the case with these incidents

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post #51 of 81
3/13/13 at 3:32pm
This is ton of money! I wonder if there is any protecting mechanism to limit purchases in such cases?
Also today it is possible to create your own games for kids if you wish, to avoid getting in such situations! I played with few platforms on the web, some of them are pretty limited, however some were very useful (eg: ibuildapp.com)
It worth trying though.
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post #52 of 81
3/13/13 at 3:34pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by GQB View Post

Frankly, I've had enough of the childless losers lecturing parents on how easy it is to monitor every second of a kids life. You don't have a clue about this.

Its not 'nanny' to put the simple work into store design to allow a simple, obvious cut-off for in-app purchases.

The problem is that in-app is a cash-cow and neither developers nor Apple really want to make it easy to disable.

 

Stop pontificating on things you don't understand.

 

And I've had enough of parents that won't take responsibility for their kids and educate themselves before allowing access to something like an iPad and get pissed when us 'childish losers' are more aware when they are about these issues we don't have as valid a need for.

 

be a grown up, admit you blew it and take your licks. 

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post #53 of 81
3/13/13 at 3:37pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by GQB View Post

Frankly, I've had enough of the childless losers lecturing parents on how easy it is to monitor every second of a kids life. You don't have a clue about this.
Its not 'nanny' to put the simple work into store design to allow a simple, obvious cut-off for in-app purchases.
The problem is that in-app is a cash-cow and neither developers nor Apple really want to make it easy to disable.

Stop pontificating on things you don't understand.

Who said anything about monitoring every second? It's as simple as setting a password on purchases and not giving it to your kid. Doesn't even take any technical savvy, just common sense. Same principal as don't give your ATM card and pin to your teenager. There's no way a bank is going to give money back to bonehead parents that do that. Why should Apple treat them any different.

And for your information, I have kids and little cousins and nieces and nephews. I have first hand experience with lots of children. These occurrences should be a life lesson to these parents, without Apple bailing them out.

I own...

1 Android Phone, 2 iPads, 1 Windows Tablet, 1 Mac Desktop, 1 Windows Laptop, 1 Linux Server, 1 Linux HTPC

 

They all are used regularly and each have their place. Competition is good.

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I own...

1 Android Phone, 2 iPads, 1 Windows Tablet, 1 Mac Desktop, 1 Windows Laptop, 1 Linux Server, 1 Linux HTPC

 

They all are used regularly and each have their place. Competition is good.

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post #54 of 81
3/13/13 at 3:56pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by hmm View Post

 

iOS is on millions of devices, so these kinds of PR debacles will come up. If Apple wanted to lessen the rate of occurrence, they could have the in app purchase feature disabled by default or allow allow some kind of purchasing limit to be set at an account level. Otherwise you're likely to continue reading similar stories. The use of "freemium" business models didn't seem that widespread a couple years ago.

 

I remember the olden days when Sega, Atari etc had "premium" help lines, where kids could run up large phone bills by calling for tips and hints.

 

There is nothing new under the sun, parents should take responsibility for supervising their children.

"The cobbler's children have no shoes", is a saying that applies a lot to companies who provide products and services. -KDarling on Google Search.

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"The cobbler's children have no shoes", is a saying that applies a lot to companies who provide products and services. -KDarling on Google Search.

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post #55 of 81
3/13/13 at 4:02pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by GQB View Post

Frankly, I've had enough of the childless losers lecturing parents on how easy it is to monitor every second of a kids life. You don't have a clue about this.

Its not 'nanny' to put the simple work into store design to allow a simple, obvious cut-off for in-app purchases.

The problem is that in-app is a cash-cow and neither developers nor Apple really want to make it easy to disable.

 

Stop pontificating on things you don't understand.

 

Try to teach your kids that not every whim can be immediately gratified, I know it's hard they can be very demanding but don't give in.

 

When they face living in the real world they might thank you for it one day.

 

Then again, we have created a debt ridden society where having it NOW overrides any future consequences.

"The cobbler's children have no shoes", is a saying that applies a lot to companies who provide products and services. -KDarling on Google Search.

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"The cobbler's children have no shoes", is a saying that applies a lot to companies who provide products and services. -KDarling on Google Search.

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post #56 of 81
3/13/13 at 4:07pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by nicwalmsley View Post

Another simple idea is that a user should be allowed to set global limits on in app purchases, a daily, weekly and monthly rate. When you hit the limit, you have to authorise a new limit for that day, week or month.
 

 

Edit your account via iTunes on a PC to remove your credit card, use vouchers (often available at a discount).

 

or

 

Set up your account via iTunes on a PC, where it asks for a credit card specify "None".

"The cobbler's children have no shoes", is a saying that applies a lot to companies who provide products and services. -KDarling on Google Search.

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"The cobbler's children have no shoes", is a saying that applies a lot to companies who provide products and services. -KDarling on Google Search.

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post #57 of 81
3/13/13 at 4:10pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by GTR View Post

 

Bristol is in the Netherlands now?

 

It depends which accountant you use. 1wink.gif

 

Double dutch sandwich, anyone?

 

(The poster was referring to their experience, not the one depicted in the article.)

"The cobbler's children have no shoes", is a saying that applies a lot to companies who provide products and services. -KDarling on Google Search.

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"The cobbler's children have no shoes", is a saying that applies a lot to companies who provide products and services. -KDarling on Google Search.

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post #58 of 81
3/13/13 at 4:12pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheUnfetteredMind View Post

Back in the day it was nice when we (kids) played outside and got some fresh air.

 

...and are now developing skin cancer (well in Australia and New Zealand, anyway).

"The cobbler's children have no shoes", is a saying that applies a lot to companies who provide products and services. -KDarling on Google Search.

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"The cobbler's children have no shoes", is a saying that applies a lot to companies who provide products and services. -KDarling on Google Search.

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post #59 of 81
3/13/13 at 4:14pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by dasanman69 View Post


And you get the email receipt immediately not the next day which could've prevented the bill from getting so high. All of you that blame the parents are idiots, do you stand over your child's (if you have any) shoulder, and monitor there usage at ALL times? No of course not. It doesn't take long to rack up a pretty big bill with these IAPs. Last week while getting my hair cut I let my son use a iPod to play games instead of sitting there bored. I had my eye on him the whole time but he could've very easily made some IAPs right under my nose. Good thing I always look him in the eye and tell him "DO NOT buy anything".

 

Only if he knew the password, which you would have had to have given to him.


Edited by hill60 - 3/13/13 at 4:23pm

"The cobbler's children have no shoes", is a saying that applies a lot to companies who provide products and services. -KDarling on Google Search.

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"The cobbler's children have no shoes", is a saying that applies a lot to companies who provide products and services. -KDarling on Google Search.

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post #60 of 81
3/13/13 at 4:19pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post


The targets have changed but humanity has not. 100 years ago we blamed things on false science or even just more superstition but today we have a lot more information in our reach but with that excessive amount of info comes the ability to miss something because there is so much to absorb. Apple wasn't around then but if you go back to before the iPhone there was no inexpensive Apple product that could easily be tied to excessive costs or usage. Even the iPods didn't have any wireless capabilities and there was no app store.

Has there ever been a generation that hasn't said that they newer one is more spoiled and more entitled than there's at that age? Perhaps during a prolonged war that can be said but in general I think that's a common sentiment because of the way we recall our own history is emotional and selective, not objective.

 

Fairground hawkers making money from rigged games.

 

Are the people who run the fairs at fault for providing entertainment people want?

 

This "issue" has been around for hundreds, even thousands of years.

"The cobbler's children have no shoes", is a saying that applies a lot to companies who provide products and services. -KDarling on Google Search.

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"The cobbler's children have no shoes", is a saying that applies a lot to companies who provide products and services. -KDarling on Google Search.

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post #61 of 81
3/13/13 at 4:32pm

This must be some pretty smart who knows the password to access and make in app purchases.

 

I wonder who gave him the password or is it a case of auto download?

 

I just wonder.

 

Perhaps as someone mentioned after downloading a few hundreds paid purchases i make a complaint and all my spending will be refunded.

 

What a scam. Sad

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post #62 of 81
3/13/13 at 5:21pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by hill60 View Post

Are the people who run the fairs at fault for providing entertainment people want?

Good question. Are the people running the fairs aware the games are rigged? Do they do anything to stop it? I think the people who want entertainment aren't constantly thinking "what scam will this vendor try to perpetuate?" I think it comes down to be aware that it exists and to protect yourself and your family to a reasonable degree, but that those that cater to these vendors also need to be responsible and cater to preventing them and punishing them to a reasonable degree. Unfortunately we are highly reactionary as a species so until something become a major issue it's not often dealt with.

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post #63 of 81
3/13/13 at 5:45pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by hmm View Post

iOS is on millions of devices, so these kinds of PR debacles will come up. If Apple wanted to lessen the rate of occurrence, they could have the in app purchase feature disabled by default or allow allow some kind of purchasing limit to be set at an account level. Otherwise you're likely to continue reading similar stories. The use of "freemium" business models didn't seem that widespread a couple years ago.

I agree to all you said. Actually I co aided freemium a concept to lure people into spending more money than if you'd buy "the full game". Latest exams of this pest is RR3.
Allowing a time based max limit on IAP or immediate password requirement would certainly help and shouldn't be too hard to implement.
Yeah, well, you know, that's just, like, my opinion, man.
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Yeah, well, you know, that's just, like, my opinion, man.
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post #64 of 81
3/13/13 at 5:57pm
That's what happens when your parents are idiots
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post #65 of 81
3/13/13 at 5:58pm

I mean, do they ever check their bank account? Never mind checking up to see what your kids been doing on their iPad…

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post #66 of 81
3/13/13 at 6:52pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by winstein2010 View Post

Android has a "Kids Mode" App that locks the device so there are no in-app purchase possible.  I think Apple should implement something similar:  A kid mode that the user cannot change settings and a pre-set limit on how much the kid can spend a week or a month.

They do have this mode.  Parental controls allow you to add a password to in-app purchases.  These parents just didn't turn it on.  Apple should probably put this setting on the welcome screen because too many people don't learn how to use the device before handing it to their kids.

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post #67 of 81
3/13/13 at 6:56pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by AdamC View Post

This must be some pretty smart who knows the password to access and make in app purchases.

 

I wonder who gave him the password or is it a case of auto download?

 

I just wonder.

 

Perhaps as someone mentioned after downloading a few hundreds paid purchases i make a complaint and all my spending will be refunded.

 

What a scam. Sad

 

It will save the session token for purchasing.  They can still password protect it from making these purchases in all cases with parental controls.

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post #68 of 81
3/13/13 at 10:24pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by WonkoTheSane View Post


I agree to all you said. Actually I co aided freemium a concept to lure people into spending more money than if you'd buy "the full game". Latest exams of this pest is RR3.

 

You can totally play rr3 without making a sale cash purchase. As you can many of the games with IAP in them. Just depends on how fast you want things to turn over.

 

if you feel strongly about the IAP issue, don't download those games. They are easy to spot if you bother to read the info about the app. But if you are going to and a child has access to the device, learn how to block such things. Because its been there for a while. 

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post #69 of 81
3/14/13 at 1:46am

1. No AppleID Password? = A bit... unfortunate?

2. $99,99 for some virtual fish bucks? = Evil, greedy, cunning...

3. Dear Apple, out of the box any iOS device should be set to "Prompt password immediately" instead of "after 15 minutes" as it is now. People don't take their time to find these settings.

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post #70 of 81
3/14/13 at 5:45am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dookie Howsre View Post

I mean, do they ever check their bank account? Never mind checking up to see what your kids been doing on their iPad…

It can take weeks before you get a credit card statement. Even the iTunes receipts are often several days in processing (I could never figure out why they aren't sent instantly).

And the parents ARE checking what the kids are doing. They just downloaded a game for the kids and see the kids playing it. There should not be a window for in-app purchases unless specifically authorized.
Quote:
Originally Posted by esummers View Post

They do have this mode.  Parental controls allow you to add a password to in-app purchases.  These parents just didn't turn it on.  Apple should probably put this setting on the welcome screen because too many people don't learn how to use the device before handing it to their kids.

Putting it on the welcome screen is one solution, but not the best one. First, it makes the sign-in process longer and clumsier. Second, it still assumes that people know what they're going. In-app purchasing should require a password by default WITH NO DELAY. That way, the people who are not educated are safe. The ones who want to learn how it works can change it. A consumer device should ALWAYS default to 'safe'.
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post #71 of 81
3/14/13 at 7:23am
This is b.s., I play this game - Simpsons Tapped Out - and you can only make purchases by entering your password. Either these parents set up their iPad to remember the password or they told this 8 year old the password and he was typing it in for every purchase. Don't blame Apple because you're lazy parents. Btw - it's a great game and I enjoy it a lot, and you don't have to pay $1 or £1 to play. All payments are optional and I do spend a few dollars here and there and every time I must put in my pw.
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post #72 of 81
3/14/13 at 7:44am

How about just turning off IAP?  iOS does allow that.

 

Apple can't fix stupid.

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post #73 of 81
3/14/13 at 10:42am

The charges were fraudulent so of course Apple refunded them.  I am the only person authorized to make purchases on my credit card.  My child is not. That's part of the contract that I have with the credit card company.   Just because Apple, the credit card companies, and the game developer have made it really easy for someone else to purchase things using my card, does not mean I've authorized it. And giving my password to the child is also not authorization any more than I give consent to my waiter by handing him my card to charge dinner and anything else he wants to charge.

 

A $99 in-app purchase in a child's game? Which can be consumed in minutes and repeated over and over? The developer knows the child doesn't have that kind of money and they know that the parent's aren't authorizing this. They are knowingly encouraging and benefiting from credit card theft.  A little prosecution seems like a good idea.  I doubt it will happen as it's to everyone in the value chain's advantage to just accept the fraud and give refunds rather than tighten up the requirements which would reduce usage. 

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post #74 of 81
3/14/13 at 12:47pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by dasanman69 View Post

And you get the email receipt immediately not the next day which could've prevented the bill from getting so high. All of you that blame the parents are idiots, do you stand over your child's (if you have any) shoulder, and monitor there usage at ALL times? No of course not. It doesn't take long to rack up a pretty big bill with these IAPs. Last week while getting my hair cut I let my son use a iPod to play games instead of sitting there bored. I had my eye on him the whole time but he could've very easily made some IAPs right under my nose. Good thing I always look him in the eye and tell him "DO NOT buy anything".

you are saying a couple different things, but i have to ask, do you tell your son the password for your device and the account that can do the IAP? If not, then no, he cannot do an IAP under your nose.

I, as a parent of 3 children, do take responsibility for my kids. They do not know the device password. They are not allowed to purchase anything, particularly if they are younger than teenagers. Yes it is more work, yes they whine. No, I don't care. Being a parent is not easy, nor should it be. the easier it is, the less involved you will be in your kids lives and the more likely you are to have these kids of issues. Don't like stress? Don't have kids. If you already have them, step up and be responsible.
NoahJ
"It is unwise to be too sure of one's own wisdom. It is healthy to be reminded that the strongest might weaken and the wisest might err." - Mahatma Gandhi
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NoahJ
"It is unwise to be too sure of one's own wisdom. It is healthy to be reminded that the strongest might weaken and the wisest might err." - Mahatma Gandhi
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post #75 of 81
3/14/13 at 12:50pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by charlituna View Post

You can totally play rr3 without making a sale cash purchase. As you can many of the games with IAP in them. Just depends on how fast you want things to turn over.

if you feel strongly about the IAP issue, don't download those games. They are easy to spot if you bother to read the info about the app. But if you are going to and a child has access to the device, learn how to block such things. Because its been there for a while. 

To me it's not an issue of how to block things. I know how to do that. It's just that the whole concept of freemium leaves me with a bad taste. I just feel that the purpose is to lure people into spending more money in little chunks that you might not spend if the game would be for sale for eg 89,99. The waiting times are a good example actually. And not only to be found in RR3. Also it is targeted IMO at kids who can easily be fooled by this, such as kids. Sure I can chose not to install them in the first place. Or if I do make sure that nothing is purchased I do not agree with. Still... I just don't like the idea of "you own the full game. Well sort of. If you really like to play you can pay a bit to remove the artificially introduced nags. Over and over again preferably."
Yeah, well, you know, that's just, like, my opinion, man.
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Yeah, well, you know, that's just, like, my opinion, man.
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post #76 of 81
3/14/13 at 12:57pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by WonkoTheSane View Post

To me it's not an issue of how to block things. I know how to do that. It's just that the whole concept of freemium leaves me with a bad taste. I just feel that the purpose is to lure people into spending more money in little chunks that you might not spend if the game would be for sale for eg 89,99. The waiting times are a good example actually. And not only to be found in RR3. Also it is targeted IMO at kids who can easily be fooled by this, such as kids. Sure I can chose not to install them in the first place. Or if I do make sure that nothing is purchased I do not agree with. Still... I just don't like the idea of "you own the full game. Well sort of. If you really like to play you can pay a bit to remove the artificially introduced nags. Over and over again preferably."
Then don't buy them, the developer will stop making it that way if it is not making them money. Easy, right?
NoahJ
"It is unwise to be too sure of one's own wisdom. It is healthy to be reminded that the strongest might weaken and the wisest might err." - Mahatma Gandhi
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NoahJ
"It is unwise to be too sure of one's own wisdom. It is healthy to be reminded that the strongest might weaken and the wisest might err." - Mahatma Gandhi
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post #77 of 81
3/14/13 at 1:01pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by NoahJ View Post


Then don't buy them, the developer will stop making it that way if it is not making them money. Easy, right?

 

No, not when you can't know the app does this until it's purchased.
PhilBoogie
That's Google alright. For a stupid company they sure do dumb things.
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PhilBoogie
That's Google alright. For a stupid company they sure do dumb things.
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post #78 of 81
3/14/13 at 1:06pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by NoahJ View Post

Then don't buy them, the developer will stop making it that way if it is not making them money. Easy, right?

And I don't. But I still can not like it, right? :-)
Yeah, well, you know, that's just, like, my opinion, man.
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post #79 of 81
3/14/13 at 1:30pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

No, not when you can't know the app does this until it's purchased.
Any app I have "bought" makes it clear that there are in app purchases available. They even say which ones are the most popular. This is not as hidden as you would like to think...

On the Simpsons game it lists the following as the top in-app purchases right on the itunes store:

1. Golden Scratch-R $0.99
2. Dozen Donuts $1.99
3. Stack of 60 Donuts $4.99
4. Truckload of 300 Donuts $19.99
5. Tray of 132 Donuts $9.99
6. Store Full of 900 Donuts $49.99
7. Boatload of 2400 Donuts $99.99

Not that hidden.... 1smoking.gif
NoahJ
"It is unwise to be too sure of one's own wisdom. It is healthy to be reminded that the strongest might weaken and the wisest might err." - Mahatma Gandhi
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NoahJ
"It is unwise to be too sure of one's own wisdom. It is healthy to be reminded that the strongest might weaken and the wisest might err." - Mahatma Gandhi
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post #80 of 81
3/14/13 at 3:17pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by NoahJ View Post

you are saying a couple different things, but i have to ask, do you tell your son the password for your device and the account that can do the IAP? If not, then no, he cannot do an IAP under your nose.

I, as a parent of 3 children, do take responsibility for my kids. They do not know the device password. They are not allowed to purchase anything, particularly if they are younger than teenagers. Yes it is more work, yes they whine. No, I don't care. Being a parent is not easy, nor should it be. the easier it is, the less involved you will be in your kids lives and the more likely you are to have these kids of issues. Don't like stress? Don't have kids. If you already have them, step up and be responsible.

I know how to stop it, many parents don't know that there could be a 15 minute window in which their child can make IAPs. All they know is that every time they've downloaded something it always asked them for a password.
"A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject" - Winston Churchill
"Just because something is deemed the law doesn't make it just" - SolipsismX
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"A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject" - Winston Churchill
"Just because something is deemed the law doesn't make it just" - SolipsismX
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