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post #121 of 249

Jimmac, I'm done with you for now. First stop dismissing arrays of links and quotes with smarmy platitudes. Second, learn to quote. I'm not cleaning up your double quoting mess anymore.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by groakes View Post

Global warming may be contentious (for some) but I don't think that you can argue that CO2 levels have risen dramatically since the industrial revolution and coupled with that, the size of carbon sinks have been rapidly shrinking through de-forestation. Which begs the question - where does all the CO2 go...? Into the oceans?

 

The science surrounding CO2 absorption in the oceans is fairly simple and fundamental. Perhaps we need to think of the broader consequences for the environment. After all, you can't have an economy without one...

 

http://oceanacidification.net/fast-facts/

 

Well as usual we have the counterpoint. Some things benefit. There are studies that contradict the alarmist studies. The small changes might even be a benefit.

 

A nice article today addresses what three people in this thread have failed to address multiple times, the 97% claim.

 

Quote:

The most common reason for believing in a scientific consensus is the claim made in the previous decade, and then routinely repeated, that 2500 scientists have endorsed the IPCC’s findings (the Internet has countless references to this effect, with the number of scientists sometimes reported as 3000 or 4000.) This claim stems from a misunderstanding. The 2500 scientists associated with the IPCC were not endorsers, they were peer reviewers. Anyone can confirm this easily, as I have, by simply contacting the Secretariat of the IPCC.

 

The other common reason for believing in the existence of a scientific consensus was a widely reported survey that showed 97% of scientists believe in global warming. That number came from an online survey of 10,257 earth scientists conducted by two researchers who for various reasons decided to disqualify all but 77 of the 3146 who responded. The 77 accepted had unknown qualifications – a PhD or even a Master’s degree was not required for inclusion in the survey. Of those 77, 75 thought humans contributed to climate change; the ratio 75 over 77 yields the 97% figure. Another study also brandished a 97% figure, this one produced not by a scientist but by a computer administrator doing Google Scholar searches.

 

Again, I am more than willing to read about the 97% figure and support for it. I've asked to see the support repeatedly. I suspect the reason there is no reply is that it is a fiction.

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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post #122 of 249
Thread Starter 
There exists consensus. Just stop already. http://www.skepticalscience.com/global-warming-scientific-consensus-intermediate.htm

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply
post #123 of 249
Quote:
Originally Posted by BR View Post

There exists consensus. Just stop already. http://www.skepticalscience.com/global-warming-scientific-consensus-intermediate.htm

 

Clearly you didn't read my link and clearly you should review the definition of consensus.

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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post #124 of 249

Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

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Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

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post #125 of 249
Quote:
Originally Posted by trumptman View Post

Jimmac, I'm done with you for now. First stop dismissing arrays of links and quotes with smarmy platitudes. Second, learn to quote. I'm not cleaning up your double quoting mess anymore.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by groakes View Post

Global warming may be contentious (for some) but I don't think that you can argue that CO2 levels have risen dramatically since the industrial revolution and coupled with that, the size of carbon sinks have been rapidly shrinking through de-forestation. Which begs the question - where does all the CO2 go...? Into the oceans?

 

The science surrounding CO2 absorption in the oceans is fairly simple and fundamental. Perhaps we need to think of the broader consequences for the environment. After all, you can't have an economy without one...

 

http://oceanacidification.net/fast-facts/

 

Well as usual we have the counterpoint. Some things benefit. There are studies that contradict the alarmist studies. The small changes might even be a benefit.

 

A nice article today addresses what three people in this thread have failed to address multiple times, the 97% claim.

 

Quote:

The most common reason for believing in a scientific consensus is the claim made in the previous decade, and then routinely repeated, that 2500 scientists have endorsed the IPCC’s findings (the Internet has countless references to this effect, with the number of scientists sometimes reported as 3000 or 4000.) This claim stems from a misunderstanding. The 2500 scientists associated with the IPCC were not endorsers, they were peer reviewers. Anyone can confirm this easily, as I have, by simply contacting the Secretariat of the IPCC.

 

The other common reason for believing in the existence of a scientific consensus was a widely reported survey that showed 97% of scientists believe in global warming. That number came from an online survey of 10,257 earth scientists conducted by two researchers who for various reasons decided to disqualify all but 77 of the 3146 who responded. The 77 accepted had unknown qualifications – a PhD or even a Master’s degree was not required for inclusion in the survey. Of those 77, 75 thought humans contributed to climate change; the ratio 75 over 77 yields the 97% figure. Another study also brandished a 97% figure, this one produced not by a scientist but by a computer administrator doing Google Scholar searches.

 

Again, I am more than willing to read about the 97% figure and support for it. I've asked to see the support repeatedly. I suspect the reason there is no reply is that it is a fiction.

 

Quote:


 

Jimmac, I'm done with you for now. First stop dismissing arrays of links and quotes with smarmy platitudes. Second, learn to quote. I'm not cleaning up your double quoting mess anymore.

lol.gif

 

To be honest I was done with you a long time ago but you keep posting your nonsense!lol.gif

 

And now of course we know support for your arguments that you supply is nonsense as well as you don't even entirely read what you list for support! How embarrassing for you and yet how telling.1wink.gif

 

And " Smarmy " ?  lol.gif I'm not the one that says " My snark goes to 11 " 1wink.gif


Edited by jimmac - 4/16/13 at 4:57pm
Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
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Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
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post #126 of 249
Quote:
Originally Posted by trumptman View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by BR View Post

There exists consensus. Just stop already. http://www.skepticalscience.com/global-warming-scientific-consensus-intermediate.htm

 

Clearly you didn't read my link and clearly you should review the definition of consensus.

Well you didn't entirely read your own link when talking to me!1wink.gif

 

Otherwise you wouldn't have been caught with your pants down trumpy. But thanks for your unintentional support!lol.gif


Edited by jimmac - 4/16/13 at 4:47pm
Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
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Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
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post #127 of 249
Quote:

From your link :

 

 

Quote:

EXCEPTIONS AND CHALLENGES

Pachauri said climate change can have counter-intuitive effects, like more snowfall in winter that some people find hard to accept as side-effects of a warming trend. An IPCC report last year said warmer air can absorb more moisture, leading to heavier snowfall in some areas.

A study by Dutch experts this month sought to explain why there is now more sea ice in winter. It concluded melted ice from Antarctica was refreezing on the ocean surface - this fresh water freezes more easily than dense salt water.

Some experts challenged the findings.

"The hypothesis is plausible I just don't believe the study proves it to be true," said Paul Holland, an ice expert at the British Antarctic Survey.

Concern about climate change is rising in some nations, however, opinion polls show. Extreme events, such as Superstorm Sandy that hit the U.S. east coast last year, may be the cause. A record heatwave in Australia this summer forced weather forecasters to add a new dark magenta color to the map for temperatures up to 54 degrees Celsius (129F).

Weather and climate is a very complex issue. If you've ever read anything about Chaos theory you'd know that there are many variables that we're just beginning to understand. That doesn't mean however that Global Warming or our connection to it isn't real.

Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
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Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
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post #128 of 249

Is this science real or an inconvenient truth?

 

 

Rise in U.S. Gas Production Fuels Unexpected Plunge in Emissions  

 

 

Maybe just an inconvenient truth?

post #129 of 249
Thread Starter 

In Australia, instances of genital warts have declined by 59% in women aged 12-26 and by 39% in men of the same age group.  There was also a major decline in cervical abnormalities, often precursors of cancer.  Go Science!

 

http://www.slate.com/blogs/bad_astronomy/2013/04/20/hpv_vaccine_cases_of_virus_declining_in_australia_due_to_immunizations.html

http://well.blogs.nytimes.com/2013/04/18/hpv-vaccine-showing-successes-in-australia/

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply
post #130 of 249
Quote:
Originally Posted by BR View Post

In Australia, instances of genital warts have declined by 59% in women aged 12-26 and by 39% in men of the same age group.  There was also a major decline in cervical abnormalities, often precursors of cancer.  Go Science!

 

http://www.slate.com/blogs/bad_astronomy/2013/04/20/hpv_vaccine_cases_of_virus_declining_in_australia_due_to_immunizations.html

http://well.blogs.nytimes.com/2013/04/18/hpv-vaccine-showing-successes-in-australia/

 

Good thing Michele Obama stopped a HPV trial on the south side of Chicago.

post #131 of 249
Thread Starter 

I had to do some research about that.  I'm not quite sure what your point is, other than to take a shot at the first lady.  If the story is true, Michelle stopped a trial from targeting an all black demographic out of irrational fear of it looking like the Tuskegee abuses.  I believe that decision was wrong.  

 

Not every Republican is a knuckle-dragging anti-evolutionist science denier.  Not every Democrat is always rational, making evidence-based decisions 100% of the time.  

 

Maybe instead of the snarky comment about Michelle Obama, you could have praised Rick Perry for finally getting a science issue right (before he jumped back onto the wrong side of the issue).

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply
post #132 of 249
Thread Starter 
Stop it. That was an obvious reference to West, Texas. Your attacks are utterly vile. Go away.

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply
post #133 of 249
Quote:
Originally Posted by BR View Post

Stop it. That was an obvious reference to West, Texas. Your attacks are utterly vile. Go away.

 

Says the "man" who claims a company has actually murdered a bunch of people.

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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post #134 of 249
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ1970 View Post

 

Says the "man" who claims a company has actually murdered a bunch of people.

The company was grossly negligent and lied to the regulators.  Such a result was easily foreseeable.  People died as a result.  Yes, the company, and the people running it, should stand trial for murder.

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply
post #135 of 249
Quote:
Originally Posted by BR View Post

The company was grossly negligent and lied to the regulators.  Such a result was easily foreseeable.  People died as a result.  Yes, the company, and the people running it, should stand trial for murder.

 

So you're still making assumptions without facts and evidence? How...ummm..."scientific" of you. lol.gif

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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post #136 of 249
Thread Starter 

If you want to discuss West, Texas, we can do so in another thread.  If you want to discuss evolution, feel free to do so here.  You skipped over the part about evolution being the foundation for all of modern biology.

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply
post #137 of 249
Quote:
Originally Posted by BR View Post

If you want to discuss West, Texas, we can do so in another thread.  If you want to discuss evolution, feel free to do so here.  You skipped over the part about evolution being the foundation for all of modern biology.

 

I was simply observing how "scientific" you were being in your "science is real" thread.

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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post #138 of 249
Thread Starter 

Your observation skills in this arena seem to be on par with your biological observation skills.  I am basing my statements on articles I have read about West, Texas.  If you were to bring new *real* evidence to light that contradicts my statements, I will adjust my conclusions accordingly.  Do so in another thread, however.  

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply
post #139 of 249
Quote:
Originally Posted by BR View Post

Your observation skills in this arena seem to be on par with your biological observation skills.  I am basing my statements on articles I have read about West, Texas.  If you were to bring new *real* evidence to light that contradicts my statements, I will adjust my conclusions accordingly.  Do so in another thread, however.  

 

I see. I'm supposed to "observe" things that you have read (but not shared) with us that lead you to your conclusions. How "scientific" of you. As for me contradicting your claims...I'm afraid you're now guilty of attempting to shift the burden of proof.

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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post #140 of 249
Thread Starter 

Is that your new banal catchphrase?  Again, take West, Texas discussions to another thread.

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply
post #141 of 249
Quote:
Originally Posted by BR View Post

Is that your new banal catchphrase?  Again, take West, Texas discussions to another thread.

 

So you don't plan to support your claims. Got it. This is very "scientific" of you.

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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post #142 of 249
Thread Starter 

It's emmmmmJay, he's got a caaaaaaatch phrase

and he won't stop repeatin' 

he just gives a brow beatin'

 

It's emmmmmmJay, he's got a caaaaaaaatch phrase

he's got it into his head

to just derail this thread

 

Catch MJ Tuesday nights this fall on NBC.  

 

 

Make a West, Texas thread and I'll happily discuss things with you.  Stop it here.

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply
post #143 of 249

So you're going to do everything to avoid being scientific. Okay.

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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post #144 of 249
Quote:
Originally Posted by BR View Post

Stop it. That was an obvious reference to West, Texas. Your attacks are utterly vile. Go away.

 

So you mentioned that in a West Texas thread or did you throw it down in a thread not even related to that topic, say about Denmark instead?

 

The thread you said that in was about Denmark, not West Texas and it was a discussion about them cutting social services, not about a potential factory accident. 

 

Hypocrisy much?

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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post #145 of 249
Quote:
Originally Posted by trumptman View Post

 

So you mentioned that in a West Texas thread or did you throw it down in a thread not even related to that topic, say about Denmark instead?

 

The thread you said that in was about Denmark, not West Texas and it was a discussion about them cutting social services, not about a potential factory accident. 

 

Hypocrisy much?

 

You're clearly confused. Let me help. In BizaRre-o-land here are the rules:

 

  1. BR can bring up any unrelated subject any time he wants in any thread he wants.
  2. No one else can do that.
  3. BR can claim to be scientific and declare all sorts of people not scientific or anti-science.
  4. He himself should not be held to any scientific standards.

 

There are many more rules in BizaRre-o-land but they all seem to boil down to one standard for himself and another standard for everyone else, at least those BR hates or disagrees with.

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post #146 of 249
Quote:
Originally Posted by trumptman View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ1970 View Post

Quit lying BR. I do not deny science. You, however, are clearly bigoted.

 

Be careful MJ, BR is going end stage and he will attribute his violence to you.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by BR View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ1970 View Post

Quit lying BR. I do not deny science. You, however, are clearly bigoted.

Bullshit, unless you have suddenly realized that evolution is the mechanism that is the foundation of all of modern biology.

 

See, BR determines all that is right and wrong and he has told us what will happen when you don't agree with him. People should start taking his threats and language seriously. See something, say something, that is what we are implored to do.

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by BR View Post

All hail the free market.  Do not anger the free market, or else corporations will lie to regulators, made toothless by years of Republican bitching, crying, and whining, resulting in explosions, death, dismemberment, and a giant blast crater in the middle of town.

 

 

The reasoning is clear from him. When per him,someone he disagrees with is lying, the result is a blast crater in the middle of a town. He doesn't say that the people doing the lying take the violent action. Rather, per his reasoning, they are forcing others, like him, to take action.

 

See something, say something.

 

Quote:

The reasoning

lol.gif Coming from someone who ( now it's proven ) they don't even read their own support for their arguments this is funny.1wink.gif

 

 

Quote:

someone he disagrees with is lying

 

You offer support for your arguments only to find you haven't even read the whole article. Had you it would have dawned on you it supports my arguments. What would you know about the truth? Sorry but there's no chance of you being taken seriously anymore.

 

It's clear now that you just throw anything in there to win and if it has holes in it you hope the opposition doesn't notice.lol.gif


Edited by jimmac - 4/23/13 at 9:00pm
Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
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post #147 of 249
Actually, when regulation is either not imposed or not enforced, the result is a crater in the middle of town. Toxic waste in the groundwater. Effluent flowing into rivers and poisonous gases being released into the air. Dead babies from milk powder that some factory found a way to produce more cheaply.

The argument is that without government regulation, industry will be self-regulating because of market forces.

Texas proves that that argument is lethal bullshit.
post #148 of 249
Quote:
Originally Posted by tonton View Post

Actually, when regulation is either not imposed or not enforced, the result is a crater in the middle of town.

 

You start with a non sequitur...

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by tonton View Post

Texas proves that that argument is lethal bullshit.

 

...and end with one. Nice work.

 

 

I should warn you though, you risk the wrath of BR for not posting this in the other thread he created. And, frankly, he's right...his and your assumptions with out fact and evidence don't belong in the science thread.

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post #149 of 249
Quote:
Originally Posted by tonton View Post

Actually, when regulation is either not imposed or not enforced, the result is a crater in the middle of town. Toxic waste in the groundwater. Effluent flowing into rivers and poisonous gases being released into the air. Dead babies from milk powder that some factory found a way to produce more cheaply.

The argument is that without government regulation, industry will be self-regulating because of market forces.

Texas proves that that argument is lethal bullshit.

 

Doesn't Texas prove the failure of regulation? The industry and this factory were regulated. There was still failure.

 

What this shows is what happens when government tries to do too much and it fails at the most basic jobs. You have governments that can pass out day after pills and make sure your soda isn't over 16 ounces but can't fix a pothole or make sure back alley abortions aren't still killing live babies.

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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post #150 of 249
Thread Starter 

MJ, you never responded.  Do you agree that the scientific theory of evolution is overwhelmingly supported by mountain ranges of evidence, and serves as the foundation for and is absolutely integral to modern biology?

 

MJ, you made an assertion that you do not deny science.  Yet, in the past, you have repeatedly denounced evolution.  The two statements are mutually exclusive.  Have you deepened your understanding of evolution and now see where you were wrong in the past? If so, I absolutely applaud your efforts to do so.  Since you stated that you do not deny science, I'll just assume that's what you did.  I'll give you the benefit of the doubt.

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply
post #151 of 249
Quote:
Originally Posted by BR View Post

MJ, you never responded.  Do you agree that the scientific theory of evolution is overwhelmingly supported by mountain ranges of evidence, and serves as the foundation for and is absolutely integral to modern biology?

 

No.

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post #152 of 249
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ1970 View Post

 

No.

Then you, sir, deny science.  Case closed.

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
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post #153 of 249
Quote:
Originally Posted by BR View Post

In reference to Trumpet's assertion that Texas proves a failure of regulation...

 

No, Texas shows Republicans (and a handful of Democrats) and industry lobbyists removing the teeth from the regulators by underfunding and refusing to ratify appointments, obstructing the regulators at every turn. Republicans say government doesn't work. They then get elected and do everything in their power to prove that's the case. Sorry, what we had in Texas wasn't real regulation. The laws were made impotent, and then "conservatives" shout that regulation doesn't work. Yeah--because you fucking assured that the regulation wouldn't work.

 

Sorry but science is real and reality is real and in that context we have to see that per the news reporting, that this problem should have triggered a response from the Federal Department of Homeland Security.

 

 

Quote:

An expert in chemical safety standards said the two major federal government programs that are supposed to ensure chemical safety in industry - led by the Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) and Occupational Safety and Health Administration (OSHA) - do not regulate the handling or storage of ammonium nitrate. That task falls largely to the DHS and the local and state agencies that oversee emergency planning and response.

 

More than 4,000 sites nationwide are subject to the DHS program.

 

"This shows that the enforcement routine has to be more robust, on local, state and federal levels," said the expert, Sam Mannan, director of process safety center at Texas A&M University. "If information is not shared with agencies, which appears to have happened here, then the regulations won't work."

 

EPA, OSHA, DHS, all are agencies that regulate industry and in this case they all failed.

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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post #154 of 249
Thread Starter 

Now, MJ, you're not a lost cause.  You can still learn and gain an understanding of biology.  Here are some resources that may help.

 

 

http://evolution.berkeley.edu/

http://www.talkorigins.org/origins/faqs-qa.html

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply
post #155 of 249
Quote:
Originally Posted by BR View Post

Then you, sir, deny science.  Case closed.

 

Of course not. Stop being ridiculous. I'm sorry for your ignorance and confusion on this matter.

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post #156 of 249
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ1970 View Post

 

Of course not. Stop being ridiculous. I'm sorry for your ignorance and confusion on this matter.

 

See, not only are you on the wrong side of the issue, you are arrogant about your wrongheadedness.  Evolution is science.  It's VERY well supported.  You clearly don't understand it, don't want to understand it, or both.

 

How much have you actually studied evolution?  Where?  With what resources?  Have you learned everything you think you need to know about it from the likes of Ken Hovind, the Discovery Institute, or that idiot kid from Growing Pains?  

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
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“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
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post #157 of 249
Quote:
Originally Posted by BR View Post

See, not only are you on the wrong side of the issue, you are arrogant about your wrongheadedness.

 

Oh dear, the irony.

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by BR View Post

Evolution is science.  It's VERY well supported.

 

Stop saying ridiculous things like that.

 

The basis of science is the scientific method. Surely you've heard of this? Evolution is the theory that the vast and wide diversity of life that we now witness has come about through the processes of random mutation/variation and natural selection ultimately resulting in the many varied species of plants and animals. The problem you have here is where and how this hypothesis is tested and validated? As this point, all that evolution is is a hypothesis about how the variety of life has come about. But there are no tests that validate this hypothesis.

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by BR View Post

You clearly don't understand it, don't want to understand it, or both.

 

It is you, my dear friend, who doesn't understand or doesn't want to understand, or both.

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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post #158 of 249
Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ1970 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by BR View Post

See, not only are you on the wrong side of the issue, you are arrogant about your wrongheadedness.

 

Oh dear, the irony.

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by BR View Post

Evolution is science.  It's VERY well supported.

 

Stop saying ridiculous things like that.

 

The basis of science is the scientific method. Surely you've heard of this? Evolution is the theory that the vast and wide diversity of life that we now witness has come about through the processes of random mutation/variation and natural selection ultimately resulting in the many varied species of plants and animals. The problem you have here is where and how this hypothesis is tested and validated? As this point, all that evolution is is a hypothesis about how the variety of life has come about. But there are no tests that validate this hypothesis.

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by BR View Post

You clearly don't understand it, don't want to understand it, or both.

 

It is you, my dear friend, who doesn't understand or doesn't want to understand, or both.

You know I used to think you were a pretty intelligent fellow until I read stuff like this. MJ there are many things in this world that we know work a certain way but don't fully understand the mechanics of the situation. Therefore we can't prove them. However due to trial and error ( also a scientific method ) we know they work and can at least be sure of the basic outline of how they work.

 

A good recent example is the Higgs Boson. Now this was predicted for over 40 years. Recently they discovered a particle meeting the same criteria as the Higgs. However there were some small inconsistencies such as it's weight. However this led them to develop a new theory that there's more than one kind of Higgs. This doesn't mean the original theory was wrong. It just means it was incomplete. That's the way science works. It's constantly evolving and we do get our answers but often with more questions. They'll never get to a point where everything is known and everything is provable.

 

A little bit of reading for you on the subject of Science and how it works. Sorry but the theory of evolution is very well supported.

 

Perhaps this will help to clear up the differences between what you guys are talking about. Is Evolution a " Science " in the strict meaning of the word? No. It's a theory. Does that mean it's wrong or less likely? No. It just means it hasn't gone through the same peer review as a " Provable " science. However it does have a great deal of evidence behind it so it shouldn't just be dismissed. Many things in our everyday world go through this process and go from theory to fact. Someday they'll be able to prove Evolution as we know it one way or another. If it's the " Another " it will probably mean that what we know now was part of the picture.

 

http://www.dbskeptic.com/2010/03/14/what-it-means-to-be-scientifically-proven/


Edited by jimmac - 4/24/13 at 5:16pm
Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
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Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
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post #159 of 249
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmac View Post

You know I used to think you were a pretty intelligent fellow until I read stuff like this.

 

Quit lying.

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmac View Post

MJ there are many things in this world that we know work a certain way but don't fully understand the mechanics of the situation. Therefore we can't prove them. However due to trial and error ( also a scientific method ) we know they work and can at least be sure of the basic outline of how they work.

 

I understand that perfectly. None of that has anything whatsoever to do with Evolution however.

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmac View Post

A good recent example is the Higgs Boson. Now this was predicted for over 40 years. Recently they discovered a particle meeting the same criteria as the Higgs. However there were some small inconsistencies such as it's weight. However this led them to develop a new theory that there's more than one kind of Higgs. This doesn't mean the original theory was wrong. It just means it was incomplete. That's the way science works. It's constantly evolving and we do get our answers but often with more questions. They'll never get to a point where everything is known and everything is provable.

 

I understand that as well.

 

P.S. In science, properly understood, nothing is ever proven, it just may not have been disproven.

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmac View Post

A little bit of reading for you on the subject of Science and how it works.

 

I understand how science works.

 

P.S. From your own link, you appear to have overlooked that pesky little "perform experiment" (testing) step. What experiment or tests "prove" evolution?

 

Is there anything new you have to add?

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmac View Post

Sorry but the theory of evolution is very well supported.

 

No need to apologize for your beliefs.

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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post #160 of 249
Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ1970 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmac View Post

You know I used to think you were a pretty intelligent fellow until I read stuff like this.

 

Quit lying.

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmac View Post

MJ there are many things in this world that we know work a certain way but don't fully understand the mechanics of the situation. Therefore we can't prove them. However due to trial and error ( also a scientific method ) we know they work and can at least be sure of the basic outline of how they work.

 

I understand that perfectly. None of that has anything whatsoever to do with Evolution however.

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmac View Post

A good recent example is the Higgs Boson. Now this was predicted for over 40 years. Recently they discovered a particle meeting the same criteria as the Higgs. However there were some small inconsistencies such as it's weight. However this led them to develop a new theory that there's more than one kind of Higgs. This doesn't mean the original theory was wrong. It just means it was incomplete. That's the way science works. It's constantly evolving and we do get our answers but often with more questions. They'll never get to a point where everything is known and everything is provable.

 

I understand that as well.

 

P.S. In science, properly understood, nothing is ever proven, it just may not have been disproven.

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmac View Post

A little bit of reading for you on the subject of Science and how it works.

 

I understand how science works.

 

P.S. From your own link, you appear to have overlooked that pesky little "perform experiment" (testing) step. What experiment or tests "prove" evolution?

 

Is there anything new you have to add?

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmac View Post

Sorry but the theory of evolution is very well supported.

 

No need to apologize for your beliefs.

 

Quote:

Quit lying.

Sigh! You're such a child. I really did mean that.

 

 

Quote:

I understand that perfectly. None of that has anything whatsoever to do with Evolution however

It has everything to do with Evolution. It's the best answer we have currently. Do we understand every aspect of it? No. But we understand enough to form a theory and a pretty good one to. As I said many things in our everyday life are like this. We know they work and we kind of know how just not the complete picture so it's a theory and not provable just yet.

 

 

Quote:

I understand how science works.

 

P.S. From your own link, you appear to have overlooked that pesky little "perform experiment" (testing) step. What experiment or tests "prove" evolution?

 

Is there anything new you have to add?

I still have my doubts as to your understanding.

 

Also from my link :

 

 

Quote:

Scientific “theory” is not the opposite of “fact”. For example, the theory of evolution, like the theory of gravity and the theory of electromagnetism, is indeed a fact. You might think, “Well, if it is a fact, then why call it a theory? Why not simply call it a fact?”

In science, nothing is infallible. Nothing is absolute, like it is with creation science and other pseudosciences. Scientific theories are supported by observable evidence. The theory has to also be consistent with new theories in other fields. New technologies based on that theory have to work. For as long as this occurs, then a theory – for all intents and purposes – is a fact and can be added to school text books and other scientific journals.

At the same time, this does not mean it can’t be updated or modified when new and improved data is discovered. Even pillars of science like the theory of gravity and the theory of electromagnetism are always open for new updates or modifications. Such updates and modifications might not overturn the previous theories; they can just compliment them and give us a better understanding of how something works.

Also :

 

 

Quote:

Fundamentalists don’t criticize researches when they come up with theories that explain electricity, or the role of vitamins in health, but they think scientists get things hopelessly wrong whenever they research about the origins of our species and the universe.

Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
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Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
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