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Apple, Samsung marketing hype viewed as 'moving in opposite directions' - Page 2

post #41 of 109
3/14/13 at 7:59am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mars123 View Post

Why would carriers keep ordering phones from Samsung if the first ordered batch is still sitting in the shelf as most of the apple fans here claim? So samsung shipped 40 million units last year when most of the ones shipped initially are still sitting and collecting dust? Stop drinking apple cool-aid and make some sense. 
Until we get a model by model breakdown from Sammy, well never know the truth. The fact is many cheapies are replaced relatively quickly in production. One qtr you can buy a load of Sammy SUX, the next quarter that model could be discontinued and you order a load of Sammy COP-E.
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post #42 of 109
3/14/13 at 8:05am

Samsung claimed they shipped over 40 million galaxy S3, a specific model. why do you need model by model breakdown when it specifically says they shipped 40 million of S3 models? I am sure they didn't ship 40 million units in first quarter and most of them are sitting in the carrier warehouse. That sounds ridiculous. 

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post #43 of 109
3/14/13 at 8:19am
Quote:
Originally Posted by ClemyNX View Post

The music and dancers are nice, but this has nothing to do with phones. It's just glitter and gloss.

 

No joke, real flash mobs don't all wander out together with their nicely done signs and someone clearly using a pro video camera to be sure to capture footage of the  (likely planted) folks filming the whole thing. 

 

A real flash mob is gritty, loud, comes out of no where and gets 'advertised' by folks posting nasty shaky video on youtube etc. 

 

This was an advertisement plain and simple. And we'll see how good of one when the phone goes on sale. Same with their big flashy famous venue etc

 

it says a lot to me that Apple's invites get days of press and analysis for something held even just on campus. They get more buzz than even perhaps a US presidential election or this week's Conclave. Sad really that this is the state of the First World that a gadget gets more buzz than electing a pope or president but there it is. 

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post #44 of 109
3/14/13 at 8:20am

Today is the big day for Samsung.  They hype up this event to no end and now they must deliver on what they generated.  

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post #45 of 109
3/14/13 at 8:23am
Apple will stay on its core and that is the products speaks to itself. They are following the lead of late Steve Jobs ~focus and clarity. The world might change but what they value will stay along with innovation, education and humanities. It is not all about making money and hype people! That is why I love apple because it is just an apple!
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post #46 of 109
3/14/13 at 8:24am
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacRulez View Post

Of course expenditure totals aren't the whole picture, but ads cost a certain amount to make and the prices for broadcasting them don't vary much, so seeing Apple holding back while sitting on a pile of unused cash should raise questions - and in the coming months it will.

 

yeah questions about how Samsung etc could better spend their money. Apple doesn't waste cash on pointless advertising of this nature so they can build up money to pre purchase the entire output of a factory line and in effect block the other boys from that size screen or that particular GPU. They build up money so that they can have money for research and development, buying smaller companies that have good ideas and people but not the funding to really push in. Or even just money to weather the next financial crisis. What if the whole banking blow up from a few years ago were to hit tech companies. Who would survive and wouldn't. With Apple's money in the bank they might be the only major player in the first group. Because everyone else blew their money on advertising etc

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post #47 of 109
3/14/13 at 8:25am
Quote:
Originally Posted by jungmark View Post

How can one of the largest companies on Earth be a "cult company"? 

 

To a degree that is true. Apple doesn't design for everyone. They don't try to make a product that fits all needs even to the point of having 200 variations of whatever. They build what they choose to build and you can either believe it in and their logic or go buy something else. So in a sense yes they are a cult company

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post #48 of 109
3/14/13 at 8:38am
Quote:
Originally Posted by charlituna View Post

To a degree that is true. Apple doesn't design for everyone. They don't try to make a product that fits all needs even to the point of having 200 variations of whatever. They build what they choose to build and you can either believe it in and their logic or go buy something else. So in a sense yes they are a cult company

But many companies do that. I guess when I think of cults I think the people blindly follow and buy everything the company sells. I bet Many of Apple customers buy its products because it works for them.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mars123 View Post

Samsung claimed they shipped over 40 million galaxy S3, a specific model. why do you need model by model breakdown when it specifically says they shipped 40 million of S3 models? I am sure they didn't ship 40 million units in first quarter and most of them are sitting in the carrier warehouse. That sounds ridiculous. 

I'm sure the SG3 is selling fine. I'm talking about the other 45 cheapie models Sammy ships.
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post #49 of 109
3/14/13 at 8:50am
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post

As Apple's product unveilings have moved to increasingly smaller venues, rival Samsung is set to unveil its flagship Galaxy S IV at a heavily hyped event in New York City's Radio City Music Hall.

 

I don't get that part at all. Doesn't Apple normally do its events in the Yorba Buena Center or some other local auditorium, like their own campus? Has something changed that I don't know about?

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post #50 of 109
3/14/13 at 9:00am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Flaneur View Post


Are you suggesting that Gruber, for example, is on the take from Apple?

Gruber isn't paid in cash per se, but does enjoy unique benefits from Apple in consideration of his, shall we say, unique style of commentary.

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post #51 of 109
3/14/13 at 9:03am
Chocolate covered $h1t still tastes like $h1t.
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post #52 of 109
3/14/13 at 9:04am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mars123 View Post

Samsung claimed they shipped over 40 million galaxy S3, a specific model. why do you need model by model breakdown when it specifically says they shipped 40 million of S3 models? I am sure they didn't ship 40 million units in first quarter and most of them are sitting in the carrier warehouse. That sounds ridiculous. 

Apple doesn't provide model-by-model breakdowns either, but somehow that's not a problem.

 

But more importantly, the ongoing myth in the insular AI community that all of Samsung's products are going to some mysterious giant warehouse fails in the face of itself as retailers keep placing more orders every quarter.

 

This myth has survived for a few years in this tiny corner of the 'net, yet obviously the shipping numbers would have dropped by now if retailers weren't seeing sell-through.  In reality, what we're seeing is retailer orders increasing each year.

 

It's now 2013 - can we consider this myth busted and move on?

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post #53 of 109
3/14/13 at 9:07am
Quote:
Originally Posted by charlituna View Post

No joke, real flash mobs don't all wander out together with their nicely done signs and someone clearly using a pro video camera to be sure to capture footage of the  (likely planted) folks filming the whole thing. 

A real flash mob is gritty, loud, comes out of no where and gets 'advertised' by folks posting nasty shaky video on youtube etc. 

This was an advertisement plain and simple. And we'll see how good of one when the phone goes on sale. Same with their big flashy famous venue etc

it says a lot to me that Apple's invites get days of press and analysis for something held even just on campus. They get more buzz than even perhaps a US presidential election or this week's Conclave. Sad really that this is the state of the First World that a gadget gets more buzz than electing a pope or president but there it is. 

Really, calling it a flash mob is just pitiful, pathetically wrong. What is wrong with journalists that they can't get a basic concept like this right?

On your last point, the next Apple device may have more beneficial influence than the next pope, if history is any guide. Things like iPads are new platforms for advances in human knowledge, like changes in printing presses used to be. U.S. presidents can be judged on whether they use an iPad or not.
Edited by Flaneur - 3/14/13 at 9:59am
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post #54 of 109
3/14/13 at 9:10am
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacRulez View Post

Gruber isn't paid in cash per se, but does enjoy unique benefits from Apple in consideration of his, shall we say, unique style of commentary.

Like what, a review unit that he has to give back? An invitation that he has to pay his own airfare to attend?

What are you insinuating, exactly?
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post #55 of 109
3/14/13 at 9:12am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Flaneur View Post

Are you suggesting that Gruber, for example, is on the take from Apple?

No I'm not, I believe that nobody is getting paid by anyone. There's a hypocrisy that goes on here where anyone that talks positively about Android must be paid by Google but no one comes close to the likes of Gruber, Pogue, Mossberg, and Siegler.
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"Just because something is deemed the law doesn't make it just" - SolipsismX
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post #56 of 109
3/14/13 at 9:16am
Quote:
Originally Posted by vvswarup View Post

I don't get that part at all. Doesn't Apple normally do its events in the Yorba Buena Center or some other local auditorium, like their own campus? Has something changed that I don't know about?

No, I don't think anything has changed. Except that I think that Phillip Elmer-DeWitt has caved in to hit pressure on the Apple-Samsung competition, and is saying things like "Apple hype."

Apple doesn't hype, Phillip. Verging into jerk territory.
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post #57 of 109
3/14/13 at 9:16am
Glitter and gloss does not equal to quality. Do you see Ferrari running commercial on TV? Yet when you see one, you know it's a nice ride. You see countless products on "as seen on TV" and they all features 20 minutes long infomercial. Is that your idea of glitter and gloss?
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post #58 of 109
3/14/13 at 9:17am
Quote:
Originally Posted by jungmark View Post


And Apple has 70% of the mobile profits, so what's your point. Apple outsold all individual handsets.
How can one of the largest companies on Earth be a "cult company"? Oh, I guess fanboys buy 10 iPhones and iPads each.

 

My reply was to the following remark "they were still outsold by the iPhone5 AND the older iPhone4 last quarter." to which I correctly pointed out that overall Samsung has far more handset sales than Apple.

 

My point was therefore correct.

iPad, Macbook Pro, iPhone, heck I even have iLife! :-)
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iPad, Macbook Pro, iPhone, heck I even have iLife! :-)
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post #59 of 109
3/14/13 at 9:17am
Originally Posted by SJBMusic View Post
"switched to iOS from Android than left Android for iOS."

Ummmm... does anyone proof anything anymore? Nevermind. I know the answer. :P

 

The sentence is grammatically, correct. Please read it again.

 

Thanks, MacRulez, for being critical of absolutely anything done by AI, real or imagined, and 'thumbing-up' this comment, despite it being wrong in the first place.

PhilBoogie
That's Google alright. For a stupid company they sure do dumb things.
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PhilBoogie
That's Google alright. For a stupid company they sure do dumb things.
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post #60 of 109
3/14/13 at 9:25am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

 

The sentence is grammatically, correct. Please read it again.

 

Thanks, MacRulez, for being critical of absolutely anything done by AI, real or imagined, and 'thumbing-up' this comment, despite it being wrong in the first place.

The sentence may be correct grammatically, but logically it remains unsubstantiated opinion.

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post #61 of 109
3/14/13 at 9:28am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Flaneur View Post


Like what, a review unit that he has to give back? An invitation that he has to pay his own airfare to attend?

What are you insinuating, exactly?

True he pays his own air fare, yet:

 

Quote:

Meet Apple's Favorite Blogger

...

For the next hour, Schiller performed one of the company’s signature product presentations: this one to unveil the latest Mac operating system. “I got an Apple press event for one,” Gruber later wrote in a 2,300-word post on his blog Daring Fireball, which draws 5 million visitors a month. “This was new territory for me, and I think, for Apple.”

...

Last year, Apple inducted Gruber into an elite club of outsiders who get access to products before they hit stores, a group that includes Walt Mossberg of the Wall Street Journal and David Pogue of the New York Times. The strategy has paid off for Apple. In Gruber’s breathless review after his meeting with Schiller, he wrote: “He is every bit as articulate, precise and rehearsed as he is for major on-stage events.”

...

While Gruber says Apple hasn’t offered to pay for their travel, the access is a great advantage in itself. MacRumors and AppleInsider, two of the largest rumor sites, aren’t invited to events such as the Sept. 12 unveiling of the newest iPhone—where Gruber will be welcomed. “When you’re so strongly outspoken in favor of them, you’re kind of promoting the company,” says Neil Hughes, an editor at AppleInsider, one of the sites targeted in Apple’s 2004 lawsuits.

...

The bottom line: John Gruber makes an estimated $500,000 a year from his blog Daring Fireball. But his relationship with Apple is priceless.

http://www.businessweek.com/articles/2012-09-06/meet-apples-favorite-blogger

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post #62 of 109
3/14/13 at 9:32am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

 

The sentence is grammatically, correct. Please read it again.

 

Thanks, MacRulez, for being critical of absolutely anything done by AI, real or imagined, and 'thumbing-up' this comment, despite it being wrong in the first place.

 

Actually, the sentence makes zero sense. "Switching to iOS from Android" is the exact same thing as "leaving Android for iOS." I got the meaning but the sentence doesn't make sense.

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post #63 of 109
3/14/13 at 9:38am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Flaneur View Post

Are you suggesting that Gruber, for example, is on the take from Apple?

Not in cash but in perks, as does Pogue and Mossberg.
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"A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject" - Winston Churchill
"Just because something is deemed the law doesn't make it just" - SolipsismX
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post #64 of 109
3/14/13 at 9:47am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Flaneur View Post

Like what, a review unit that he has to give back? An invitation that he has to pay his own airfare to attend?

What are you insinuating, exactly?

That his perks are so great and it's making him so much money that he's at a point of no return. Pogue and Mossberg will at least keep getting paid by their respective newspapers, but it would literally cost Gruber if he ever decided to write so vehemently about another company.
"A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject" - Winston Churchill
"Just because something is deemed the law doesn't make it just" - SolipsismX
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"A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject" - Winston Churchill
"Just because something is deemed the law doesn't make it just" - SolipsismX
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post #65 of 109
3/14/13 at 9:51am
Quote:
Originally Posted by dasanman69 View Post

No I'm not, I believe that nobody is getting paid by anyone. There's a hypocrisy that goes on here where anyone that talks positively about Android must be paid by Google but no one comes close to the likes of Gruber, Pogue, Mossberg, and Siegler.

Ok, you don't think Google or Samsung or some anti-Apple black PR outfit is paying some of the shills who post here. That's fine. I think it's possible and likely, but I can't prove it, so that's a draw.

But for you to think that Gruber et al. are in the same class as the Android or Samsung trolls providing comic relief here, that would say something about your ability to draw obvious distinctions.

The guys you mention are making a living as tech journalists. They follow Apple closely because Apple makes the most interesting stuff (to a person of some intelligence), and the Apple story is the most interesting story in recent business history.

I think in all of business history, but that's just me. Anyway, they don't need to be paid by Apple. Someone who posts here, an Apple site, for ten hours a day six days a week promoting the glorious features of Android or Samsung is highly suspect, in my opinion.
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post #66 of 109
3/14/13 at 9:54am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rayz View Post

 

It's odd that you think a measure of effective marketing is how much you spend on it.

 

Microsoft has spent a billion on Windows8/Surface advertising, but doesn't appear to have made that much of an impact.

 

And even though Samsung spent more in marketing, they were still outsold by the iPhone5 AND the older iPhone4 last quarter.

True, but quantity has a quality all it's own. Or some such.  Best to be prudent.

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post #67 of 109
3/14/13 at 9:58am
Quote:
Originally Posted by dasanman69 View Post

That his perks are so great and it's making him so much money that he's at a point of no return. Pogue and Mossberg will at least keep getting paid by their respective newspapers, but it would literally cost Gruber if he ever decided to write so vehemently about another company.

What fucking perks? Say it. Go ahead and make a bigger fool of youself.

By "vehemently," which is negative, you mean enthusiastically. It "would literally cost Gruber" because he would go against his integrity (see, he likes Apple and what they're doing, so he writes about them) and he would lose his audience, which thinks like him. This integrity thing you might not understand . . .
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post #68 of 109
3/14/13 at 9:59am
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacRulez View Post

Apple doesn't provide model-by-model breakdowns either, but somehow that's not a problem.

Because Apple has released actual numbers of how many iPhones they sold and they only have 3 models.
Quote:
Originally Posted by dasanman69 View Post

That his perks are so great and it's making him so much money that he's at a point of no return. Pogue and Mossberg will at least keep getting paid by their respective newspapers, but it would literally cost Gruber if he ever decided to write so vehemently about another company.

Gruber has criticized Apple in the past. However he hasn't lied or exaggerated or spin reports.
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post #69 of 109
3/14/13 at 10:04am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Flaneur View Post

Ok, you don't think Google or Samsung or some anti-Apple black PR outfit is paying some of the shills who post here. That's fine. I think it's possible and likely, but I can't prove it, so that's a draw.

But for you to think that Gruber et al. are in the same class as the Android or Samsung trolls providing comic relief here, that would say something about your ability to draw obvious distinctions.

The guys you mention are making a living as tech journalists. They follow Apple closely because Apple makes the most interesting stuff (to a person of some intelligence), and the Apple story is the most interesting story in recent business history.

I think in all of business history, but that's just me. Anyway, they don't need to be paid by Apple. Someone who posts here, an Apple site, for ten hours a day six days a week promoting the glorious features of Android or Samsung is highly suspect, in my opinion.

I'm going to make a general statement that's not aimed at anyone specifically, but one may start doing something that they're passionate about and that something in turn becomes very beneficial and profitable to them it's going to be almost impossible for that person to stop doing it. Their are athletes that hate playing whatever game they play but what's their alternative?
"A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject" - Winston Churchill
"Just because something is deemed the law doesn't make it just" - SolipsismX
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"Just because something is deemed the law doesn't make it just" - SolipsismX
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post #70 of 109
3/14/13 at 10:13am
Quote:
Originally Posted by jungmark View Post

Because Apple has released actual numbers of how many iPhones they sold and they only have 3 models.
Gruber has criticized Apple in the past. However he hasn't lied or exaggerated or spin reports.

Criticism is one thing but would he ever turn his back on them if something greater came along? He's 'pot committed', most if not all of his chips are in the hand he's playing.
"A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject" - Winston Churchill
"Just because something is deemed the law doesn't make it just" - SolipsismX
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"A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject" - Winston Churchill
"Just because something is deemed the law doesn't make it just" - SolipsismX
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post #71 of 109
3/14/13 at 10:13am
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacRulez View Post

True he pays his own air fare, yet:

http://www.businessweek.com/articles/2012-09-06/meet-apples-favorite-blogger

So Apple spends Big Bucks to fly Schiller to New York, and invites Gruber to a one-on-one, along with other important (to Apple) journalists. So what are you saying? Gruber is bought and paid for? That Mossburg and Pogue are in Apple's pocket? You guys are hard at work here to prove something, so I wish you'd spell it out so we could judge the quality of your enormous insight.

Gruber was also invited to a Samsung event, as I recall.
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post #72 of 109
3/14/13 at 10:19am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Flaneur View Post

So Apple spends Big Bucks to fly Schiller to New York, and invites Gruber to a one-on-one, along with other important (to Apple) journalists. So what are you saying? Gruber is bought and paid for? That Mossburg and Pogue are in Apple's pocket? You guys are hard at work here to prove something, so I wish you'd spell it out so we could judge the quality of your enormous insight.

Gruber was also invited to a Samsung event, as I recall.

Bought and paid for? No it's more like rewarded. It's like people that think good deeds will get them to heaven, wrong, good deeds are done to show thanks for salvation.

Gruber doesn't really bad mouth Android, being pro-Apple doesn't mean having to crap on the competition, he was even impressed with one of the Nokia Windows phones and was surprised it wasn't more popular. The worse he said about Ihnatko's article on way he switched from iOS to Android was that he was surprised Ihnatko choose the SGS 3 and not the Nexus 4.
Edited by dasanman69 - 3/14/13 at 10:29am
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"Just because something is deemed the law doesn't make it just" - SolipsismX
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"A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject" - Winston Churchill
"Just because something is deemed the law doesn't make it just" - SolipsismX
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post #73 of 109
3/14/13 at 10:19am
It is what it is. You can get some people to come over as first time buyers by bombarding them with advertising, but repeat sales will only come from quality products and good experiences, not to mention word of mouth influence. What's better, 20 million one time buyers or 10 million repeat buyers who bring their friends?

We'll see who can endure.
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post #74 of 109
3/14/13 at 10:39am
Quote:
Originally Posted by dasanman69 View Post

Criticism is one thing but would he ever turn his back on them if something greater came along? He's 'pot committed', most if not all of his chips are in the hand he's playing.

He is always talking about apps that do things better than Apple's. He's always saying that Apple isn't perfect and calling out their mistakes. But what we should recognize is that Apple rewards your interest by maintaing a certain integrity in what it's doing, one of the legacies of Jobs and his philosophy, so you aren't weighed down with self-doubt about your commitment to the kind of progress that Apple represents. Tough for the uncommited to understand, like yourself, maybe.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dasanman69 View Post

I'm going to make a general statement that's not aimed at anyone specifically, but one may start doing something that they're passionate about and that something in turn becomes very beneficial and profitable to them it's going to be almost impossible for that person to stop doing it. Their are athletes that hate playing whatever game they play but what's their alternative?

Except Gruber clearly loves what he's doing, riding the biggest success story of a lifetime. But he's a Yankees fan, y'know.
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post #75 of 109
3/14/13 at 10:39am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Flaneur View Post

So Apple spends Big Bucks to fly Schiller to New York, and invites Gruber to a one-on-one, along with other important (to Apple) journalists.

I think you missed the opening paragraph:

Quote:
For the next hour, Schiller performed one of the company’s signature product presentations: this one to unveil the latest Mac operating system. “I got an Apple press event for one,” Gruber later wrote in a 2,300-word post on his blog Daring Fireball

So sometimes he gets invited to special events held only for a very few highly-favored journalists, and sometimes he gets Schiller all to himself.

 

 

Quote:
Gruber was also invited to a Samsung event, as I recall.

As Tallest Skil would say, citation needed. 

 

And did Samsung's VP offer to give a presentation for Gruber alone?   Did Gruber go, and then write glowing reports of how magical Samsung is?

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post #76 of 109
3/14/13 at 10:43am
Quote:
Originally Posted by jungmark View Post

Gruber has criticized Apple in the past.

URL?

 

And no, comments like "Apple's the greatest company ever and everyone else sucks, but they could go from Almost Magical to Completely Magical Flying Ponies if only they add this one feature" don't count. :)

 

 

Quote:
However he hasn't lied or exaggerated or spin reports.

Well, at least that puts him ahead of Schiller.  Maybe Gruber should be Apple's VP of Marketing.  He can't do any worse, and would likely do far better.  I've never read anything as glowing about Apple outside of Gruber's fanfest.

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post #77 of 109
3/14/13 at 10:45am
Quote:
Originally Posted by robogobo View Post

It is what it is. You can get some people to come over as first time buyers by bombarding them with advertising, but repeat sales will only come from quality products and good experiences, not to mention word of mouth influence. What's better, 20 million one time buyers or 10 million repeat buyers who bring their friends?

We'll see who can endure.

That's very true but I'll say again all Samsung is really doing is outselling Motorola, HTC, LG, Nokia, and BB, they'll gladly accept being number 2 at the expense of every other manufacturer.
"A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject" - Winston Churchill
"Just because something is deemed the law doesn't make it just" - SolipsismX
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"A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject" - Winston Churchill
"Just because something is deemed the law doesn't make it just" - SolipsismX
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post #78 of 109
3/14/13 at 10:47am
@MacRulez, no I didn't miss the first paragraph. Pogue and Mossburg also got on-on-ones. He talked about this event on one of his podcasts and I think it was then that he mentioned he scored a Samsung invitation. (Or maybe it was a Microsoft invitation, now I think about it.)

What was our point?
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post #79 of 109
3/14/13 at 10:50am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Flaneur View Post

@MacRulez, no I didn't miss the first paragraph. Pogue and Mossburg also got on-on-ones. He talked about this event on ne of his podcasts and I think it was then that he mentioned he scored a Samsung invitation. (Or maybe it was a Microsoft invitation, now I think about it.)

What was our point?


Quid pro quo.

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post #80 of 109
3/14/13 at 10:54am

@ 43 seconds: Spotlight on a woman filming the event with an iPhone 5 in a green case.

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AppleInsider › Forums › Mobile › iPhone › Apple, Samsung marketing hype viewed as 'moving in opposite directions'