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Apple, Samsung marketing hype viewed as 'moving in opposite directions' - Page 3

post #81 of 109
3/14/13 at 10:57am
Quote:
Originally Posted by jungmark View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by saarek View Post

They outsold a single handset, Samsung sold far more phones than Apple did.

And Apple has 70% of the mobile profits, so what's your point. Apple outsold all individual handsets.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chandra69 View Post

Considering Apple as Cult-Company... I dont like Apple to be this Too-Much-Advertising. But, Apple needs to be aggressive. At least it should become aggressive to stop an idiotic ripper to gain market share and spoil the industry with crap innovations like Eye-Ball-Tracking etc.

How can one of the largest companies on Earth be a "cult company"? Oh, I guess fanboys buy 10 iPhones and iPads each.


I would be interested to hear what the heck you mean by "one of the largest companies on Earth" ..

 

In terms of employees ... its not big

in terms of product range   .... its very small

in terms of sales of a single product   .... big in one market segment in the USA, smaller everywhere else. Very small in the majority of countries.

in terms of customers  ... its middle size

in terms of patents      .... it's dwarfed by IBM ... Samsung ... and many.

in terms of new utility patents .... small but growing

in terms of design patents   ... small

in terms of market cap      ... big but falling

in terms of money in the bank   ... probably #1

in terms of investment in R&D   .... not in the world top 10, maybe in the world top 100.

 

.... so where is apple the largest  ?? Market Cap is just a reflection of the gambling community. Not much really to do with Apple itself, but rather the expectation of stock profits by speculators. Am I missing something important that has to do with size ????

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post #82 of 109
3/14/13 at 10:58am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Taniwha View Post


I would be interested to hear what the heck you mean by "one of the largest companies on Earth" ..

In terms of employees ... its not big
in terms of product range   .... its very small
in terms of sales of a single product   .... big in one market segment in the USA, smaller everywhere else. Very small in the majority of countries.
in terms of customers  ... its middle size
in terms of patents      .... it's dwarfed by IBM ... Samsung ... and many.
in terms of new utility patents .... small but growing
in terms of design patents   ... small
in terms of market cap      ... big but falling
in terms of money in the bank   ... probably #1
in terms of investment in R&D   .... not in the world top 10, maybe in the world top 100.

.... so where is apple the largest  ?? Market Cap is just a reflection of the gambling community. Not much really to do with Apple itself, but rather the expectation of stock profits by speculators. Am I missing something important that has to do with size ????

Market cap and profit. Is the latter tangible enough for you?
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post #83 of 109
3/14/13 at 11:00am
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacRulez View Post

URL?

And no, comments like "Apple's the greatest company ever and everyone else sucks, but they could go from Almost Magical to Completely Magical Flying Ponies if only they add this one feature" don't count. 1smile.gif

He has a website. Search his archives.
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post #84 of 109
3/14/13 at 11:02am
Originally Posted by Taniwha View Post
I would be interested to hear what the heck you mean by "one of the largest companies on Earth" ..

 

He means the only thing that anyone means when they say that. Come on.

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post #85 of 109
3/14/13 at 11:03am
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacRulez View Post

Quid pro quo.

Then let me reformulate. Gruber is pro-Apple out of his own intelligence. He's a smart guy, and he watches how the business of computing works, and has for a while. Apple is the only story in town, for any decent journalist. The few decent ones have been named, except for Dediu, Dalrymple and a few others.

You have to be a fool or a sucker to think that Samsung and Android even come close to the level of thought and attention to detail and user experience that Apple does. Yes, they have picked out some good features, and can win over a number of susceptible oafs like Wozniak and Ihnatko.

And finally, you have to be an even bigger fool to be Samsung-shilling on Apple Insider day in and day out for free.
Edited by Flaneur - 3/14/13 at 11:09am
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post #86 of 109
3/14/13 at 11:12am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Flaneur View Post

He is always talking about apps that do things better than Apple's. He's always saying that Apple isn't perfect and calling out their mistakes. But what we should recognize is that Apple rewards your interest by maintaing a certain integrity in what it's doing, one of the legacies of Jobs and his philosophy, so you aren't weighed down with self-doubt about your commitment to the kind of progress that Apple represents. Tough for the uncommited to understand, like yourself, maybe.
Except Gruber clearly loves what he's doing, riding the biggest success story of a lifetime. But he's a Yankees fan, y'know.

If he's a Yankees fan then he's ok in my book. I have seen him be critical of Apple or say something positive about the competition, I didn't deny that, I just read where he wished the Apple TV had the search ability of the Roku 3.
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"Just because something is deemed the law doesn't make it just" - SolipsismX to whom I bid farewell.
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"A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject" - Winston Churchill
"Just because something is deemed the law doesn't make it just" - SolipsismX to whom I bid farewell.
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post #87 of 109
3/14/13 at 11:22am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Flaneur View Post

Then let me reformulate. Gruber is pro-Apple out of his own intelligence.

Reformulate = spin. The quid pro quo remains.

 

Quote:

You have to be a fool or a sucker to think that Samsung and Android even come close to the level of thought and attention to detail and user experience that Apple does. Yes, they have picked out some good features, and can win over a number of susceptible oafs like Wozniak and Ihnatko.

 

See Stelligent's wisdom in my sigline for a more balanced view.

 

Quote:
And finally, you have to be an even bigger fool to be Samsung-shilling on Apple Insider day in and day out for free.

Find any post I've ever written in which I've said that Samsung offers a categorically better solution and your comment might begin to become relevant.

 

But as it is, you and many others here have been so emotionally caught up in defending Apple that you've completely missed the content of my posts:

 

I frequently compliment Apple, and at worst have expressed opinions shared by many of the regulars here who are seen as brand loyalists for Apple.

 

Indeed, the astute reader will note that I rarely poke fun at Apple's products at all, instead merely enjoying the double standards that define so much of what passes for conversation here in the AppleInsider forums.

 

I use many Apple products all day, but unlike most here I also use most other major OSes.

 

It's not Apple that gets much attention from me, but the strange curiosity that is this AI forum subculture.

 

Apple makes good products, but AI's management doesn't quite do the same for making communities.

 

That is, unless the goal is to form something as passionately disconnected from the outside world as, say, North Korea.  If so, then hats off, mission accomplished. :)

"Surely it is possible to love Apple products and still respect what others have achieved?" - Stelligent
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post #88 of 109
3/14/13 at 11:24am
Quote:
Originally Posted by jungmark View Post


He has a website. Search his archives.

I searched for "Unfavorable things I've said about Apple" but came up empty.

 

So unless you have a URL, or any guidance at all, we can assume your experiences there are the same as mine:  such things just can't really be found there.

"Surely it is possible to love Apple products and still respect what others have achieved?" - Stelligent
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post #89 of 109
3/14/13 at 11:55am
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacRulez View Post

I searched for "Unfavorable things I've said about Apple" but came up empty.

So unless you have a URL, or any guidance at all, we can assume your experiences there are the same as mine:  such things just can't really be found there.

Right there in today's posts states he wishes Apple TV had a better search tool. In addition you can find his "App store approval of the week" sections. But that's ok, laziness is a good excuse.
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post #90 of 109
3/14/13 at 12:21pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by jungmark View Post


Right there in today's posts states he wishes Apple TV had a better search tool. In addition you can find his "App store approval of the week" sections. But that's ok, laziness is a good excuse.


True, today, after many lines of "Apple is run by magical ponies", he asks for a feature.  But note that even there he doesn't say anything disparaging about Apple TV at all, just a simple request for something even better.

 

If that's all you got, no problem.  That's all you'll find there.

"Surely it is possible to love Apple products and still respect what others have achieved?" - Stelligent
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post #91 of 109
3/14/13 at 12:23pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by KDarling View Post

The problem with repeating that old meme is twofold:

1) Samsung continues to ship millions to stores month after month.  Retailers don't continue to buy if the units aren't selling.

2) Apple likewise reports shipments to retailers as sales.  Apple is NOT reporting the retailer's end user sales.


Because of that, sometimes Apple's reported sales numbers are boosted by over-enthusiastic retailer purchasing, just as Samsung's were that time with its initial tablets.


For example, just last year, in two separate earnings calls, Cook had to explain unexpectedly large drops in iPhone or iPad sales, by admitting that end user sell-through had been millions less than the reported sales for the previous quarter.  In other words, stores bought less because extra shipped units were still sitting unsold in their inventories.


The upshot is, shipments being more than end user sales happens to everyone at times... Apple as well...,but it's not that common for any company, and it usually works out over the long term.
Proof?
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post #92 of 109
3/14/13 at 12:30pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacRulez View Post


True, today, after many lines of "Apple is run by magical ponies", he asks for a feature.  But note that even there he doesn't say anything disparaging about Apple TV at all, just a simple request for something even better.

If that's all you got, no problem.  That's all you'll find there.

Wow so to be considered critical you have to say something sucks or is the worst thing in the world. If not, youre a paid shill. Got it.
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post #93 of 109
3/14/13 at 12:31pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Flaneur View Post

Ok, you don't think Google or Samsung or some anti-Apple black PR outfit is paying some of the shills who post here. That's fine. I think it's possible and likely, but I can't prove it, so that's a draw.

But for you to think that Gruber et al. are in the same class as the Android or Samsung trolls providing comic relief here, that would say something about your ability to draw obvious distinctions.

The guys you mention are making a living as tech journalists. They follow Apple closely because Apple makes the most interesting stuff (to a person of some intelligence), and the Apple story is the most interesting story in recent business history.

I think in all of business history, but that's just me. Anyway, they don't need to be paid by Apple. Someone who posts here, an Apple site, for ten hours a day six days a week promoting the glorious features of Android or Samsung is highly suspect, in my opinion.
I agree. GG and KDarling are obvious paid shrills. The others are just obnoxious pricks out to annoy.
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post #94 of 109
3/14/13 at 12:35pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by hfts View Post


I agree. GG and KDarling are obvious paid shrills. 

Hmm. . . Now I'm a paid "shrill". That's a first for me. I don't ever recall a complaint of being too high-pitched.. . . at least since singing alto in the church choir at 9 years old.lol.gif


Edited by Gatorguy - 3/14/13 at 12:44pm

melior diabolus quem scies

"No theatrics and no more personal attacks, just stick to the logic and tell me why I don't have any argument ~ Jragosta/2012

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melior diabolus quem scies

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post #95 of 109
3/14/13 at 12:37pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gatorguy View Post

LOL! Proof?
Um, look at the posting history of you two maybe.
You are so funny, can you not see how silly you look to others?
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post #96 of 109
3/14/13 at 1:15pm

Good lord, this thread gets entirely hijacked by some gratingly specious parsing of Gruber's "perks"?

 

The topic was Samsung's massive and lurid ad spending, as of late.  We could talk about how that makes all of Samsung's customers "sheeple" who are easily swayed by "hype", since that was always the metric for Apple. Right?  People right on these very boards who have assured us that Apple is a great marketing company but little more, seizing market share by clever promotion for the gullible?   We all remember that, right?

 

But instead we have several pages of vague insinuations that Apple pays (in a sense, if you squint) for play, which somehow degenerates into implying that the fact that Gruber makes money off his website and gets invited to Apple press events is enough for us to connect the dots.   Or something, since as far as I can tell no one is bothering to even try and make a coherent argument, except for the time honored Internet tradition of quibbling with wording until everyone gets tired and goes home.

 

So shut the hell up.  Apple certainly extends opportunities to view products to sympathetic tech journalists, and that's pretty much all the there that's there.  Gruber makes money off his site because it's popular, in the manner that anyone makes money off a popular web site.  The end. 

 

Now if we're done with the sinister specter of allowing people to preview your products, maybe we could talk about Samsung's status as a mafia like and state supported chaebol whose leaders are out of prison only due to the intervention of the politicians they own.

 

I mean, since we're so interested in "hypocrisy" and "Apple zealots", I thought it might be appropriate to pay attention to what kind of organization Samsung actually is compared to the kind of organization Apple actually is,  and consider the relative likelihood of under-the-table deals and outright graft, fraud and corruption,  given what we know about how these two companies operate. 


Edited by addabox - 3/14/13 at 1:23pm
They spoke of the sayings and doings of their commander, the grand duke, and told stories of his kindness and irascibility.
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post #97 of 109
3/14/13 at 2:17pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by hfts View Post

I agree. GG and KDarling are obvious paid shrills. The others are just obnoxious pricks out to annoy.

Thank you. But I take issue. Some of the rest have to be more than just obnoxious pricks out to annoy, I think.

Many others would agree with you. Who knows?

@addabox, "massive and lurid" is the operative phrase. Describes their phones as well.
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post #98 of 109
3/14/13 at 2:58pm

Prediction: Samsung has been so effective at getting attention that even the most rabid AI forum members will be tuned in tonight to see what they have to announce. By this time tomorrow there will be an AI article on the new Galaxy S4 filled with at least 5 pages of comments with the regulars here well-represented. 

melior diabolus quem scies

"No theatrics and no more personal attacks, just stick to the logic and tell me why I don't have any argument ~ Jragosta/2012

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melior diabolus quem scies

"No theatrics and no more personal attacks, just stick to the logic and tell me why I don't have any argument ~ Jragosta/2012

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post #99 of 109
3/14/13 at 5:17pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Flaneur View Post

Thank you. But I take issue. Some of the rest have to be more than just obnoxious pricks out to annoy, I think.

Many others would agree with you. Who knows?

@addabox, "massive and lurid" is the operative phrase. Describes their phones as well.
You are welcome.
Also you may be right about others on the google/sandung payroll.
Surely there cannot be a place in the entire universe that is populated with so many c($@s. but I think I'm wrong, it's the forum section of AI.
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post #100 of 109
3/15/13 at 5:11am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gatorguy View Post

Prediction: Samsung has been so effective at getting attention that even the most rabid AI forum members will be tuned in tonight to see what they have to announce. By this time tomorrow there will be an AI article on the new Galaxy S4 filled with at least 5 pages of comments with the regulars here well-represented. 

It didn't even take a full day. Just 12 hours later and page 6 is nearly ready to turn.

melior diabolus quem scies

"No theatrics and no more personal attacks, just stick to the logic and tell me why I don't have any argument ~ Jragosta/2012

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melior diabolus quem scies

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post #101 of 109
3/15/13 at 1:06pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gatorguy View Post

It didn't even take a full day. Just 12 hours later and page 6 is nearly ready to turn.

 

You seem to think you're making some kind of point, you're not. As per usual.  As Apple's most successful competitor, the introduction of a new model of Samsung's flagship phone was of course going to be covered by this site, and of course the coverage was going to get a lot of comments.

 

Doesn't require Samsung being "effective at getting attention" or "rabid forum members", just the normal way of tech sites.  

 

Do you ever get tired of twisting yourself in knots to explain the world in ways that are disparaging to Apple, Apple's users, and this site?  Don't you have a more productive use of your time?  Wouldn't it be better for your spirit to hang out on a site that talks mostly about stuff you like, so you can enjoy something positive?  You know, like this site used to be for Apple's customers, before it was overrun.

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post #102 of 109
3/15/13 at 5:41pm
Originally Posted by addabox View Post
As Apple's most successful competitor, the introduction of a new model of Samsung's flagship phone was of course going to be covered by this site, and of course the coverage was going to get a lot of comments.

 

Problem is the coverage is here, an Apple site, where many believe it shouldn't be at all.

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post #103 of 109
3/15/13 at 6:46pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

Problem is the coverage is here, an Apple site, where many believe it shouldn't be at all.

Are they forced to read it? Ignoring the competition has led to the downfall of many. How many are on a downward spiral because they chose not to follow the path Apple laid out? They're trying to follow it now but alas way too late.
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"Just because something is deemed the law doesn't make it just" - SolipsismX to whom I bid farewell.
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"Just because something is deemed the law doesn't make it just" - SolipsismX to whom I bid farewell.
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post #104 of 109
3/15/13 at 7:11pm
Originally Posted by dasanman69 View Post
Ignoring the competition has led to the downfall of many.

 

See, we're not Apple. We can ignore it and have nothing happen.

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post #105 of 109
3/15/13 at 7:20pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

See, we're not Apple. We can ignore it and have nothing happen.

Didn't RIM, Microsoft, Palm, Dell, and many others think the very same?
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"Just because something is deemed the law doesn't make it just" - SolipsismX to whom I bid farewell.
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"Just because something is deemed the law doesn't make it just" - SolipsismX to whom I bid farewell.
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post #106 of 109
3/15/13 at 7:26pm
Originally Posted by dasanman69 View Post
Didn't RIM, Microsoft, Palm, Dell, and many others think the very same?

APPLEINSIDER IS NOT A TECHNOLOGY COMPANY.😩

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post #107 of 109
3/15/13 at 7:40pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

APPLEINSIDER IS NOT A TECHNOLOGY COMPANY.😩

You said "we're Apple....." not "we're AI" in which case you'd be correct.
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"Just because something is deemed the law doesn't make it just" - SolipsismX to whom I bid farewell.
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"Just because something is deemed the law doesn't make it just" - SolipsismX to whom I bid farewell.
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post #108 of 109
3/15/13 at 7:47pm
Originally Posted by dasanman69 View Post
You said "we're Apple....."

 

Why not actually read the posts to which you're responding?

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post #109 of 109
3/15/13 at 7:55pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

Why not actually read the posts to which you're responding?

I did and believed I responded accordingly. Where did I err?
"A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject" - Winston Churchill
"Just because something is deemed the law doesn't make it just" - SolipsismX to whom I bid farewell.
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"A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject" - Winston Churchill
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