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Apple's Schiller: Samsung Galaxy S IV may 'ship with an OS that is nearly a year old'

post #1 of 102
Thread Starter 
Apple marketing chief Phil Schiller took aim at Android in general and Samsung in particular, saying that the Galaxy S IV will ship with "an OS that is nearly a year old" in an interview published just hours before Apple's chief rival is expected to reveal its newest flagship model.

fragments
via Android.com


Schiller blasted Android and Samsung in an interview with Reuters on Wednesday. He focused on fragmentation in Android, which sees most of the OS's users relying on older software.

"With [Google's] own data," Shiller said, "only 16 percent of Android users are on year-old version of the operating system. Over 50 percent are still on software that is two years old. A really big difference."

Schiller was referring to the most recent figures on Android's install base, which show 16.5 percent of users running Android 4.1 or 4.2, 28.6 percent running Android 4.0, and 43.9 percent running Android 2.3.

The Apple marketing chief didn't go into detail on how customers are affected by running older software, but Schiller did point out that Samsung's Galaxy S IV will debut on Thursday likely running Android 4.2.

"And that extends to the news we are hearing this week that the Samsung Galaxy S IV is being rumored to ship with an OS that is nearly a year old," said Schiller. "Customers will have to wait to get an update."

Schiller's comments to Reuters are the Apple exec's second made to the media in a day. On Wednesday, Schiller spoke with The Wall Street Journal in an interview that hit largely the same points, though he didn't specifically address Samsung.

Schiller has been more vocal in addressing Android of late, taking to Twitter last week in order to point out a study showing a spike in malware on Google's mobile OS. That same study showed that iOS malware was at a comparatively small level.

The Apple executive's comments refer to the fact that Android versions go through multiple waves of lengthy testing and refinement at both the device manufacturer and carrier levels before they can be passed on to consumers. This is due to the manufacturers' tendency to heavily customize the software in order to differentiate their devices from their competitors.

fragments
via Android.com


Samsung's Android "skin" ? dubbed TouchWiz ? adds a number of different functions to the South Korean manufacturer's devices. In the case of the company's Galaxy Note 8.0, TouchWiz adds support for the digitizer S Pen. With the S IV, Samsung is expected to have built in eye-tracking software that will enable automatic scrolling, as well as other features that allow users to interact with the screen without touching it.

Schiller's focus on the install base of older software does not, however, acknowledge some recent shifting trends in the Android ecosystem. While a plurality of devices do run the years-old version 2.3, that proportion has been shrinking rapidly, dropping seven percentage points since December, while versions 4.1 and 4.2 have grown from about 7 percent of the more than 500 million Android devices in the world to more than 16 percent.
post #2 of 102

Desperation.

post #3 of 102
I like the fact that Apple is speaking out, but ignoring the competition is usually a better way to go, media-wise. Why give them any attention?

He is correct, though. And Samsung's UI on top of Android is so damn ugly.
post #4 of 102

If it ships with 4.2.1, that came up in November, 2012. I guess the FUD train goes both ways.

post #5 of 102
And somehow that matters to the end users. Weak argument.
post #6 of 102
He is correct . Why buy an os a year ago ?
post #7 of 102

I find the things Schiller has decided to speak out on a bit strange.  I wonder if Apple requested to speak with Bloomberg, Reuters and WSJ or if they reached out to Apple?

post #8 of 102
As much as I'm a fan of Apple products, I have to admit that the last versions of iOS feel outdated.

Samsung is following Apple's lead on focusing on 1 major feature that has the potential to change the mobile environment.

This is assuming of course that Samsung is releasing an eye-tracking feature and that it actually works as promised. This could be a game changer in hands free interaction.

However, going back to Apple, Siri was their answer to hands free interaction with mobile devices. Even though the feature had huge potential, it ended up being an unfinished product seen as gimmicky by many. Some will argue that the feature works for them, but overall is very limited in its nature. Not to mention that the feature exists for the most part on Android.

The lesson is that you only get 1 or 2 attempts at most before people move on. So if Samsung has such a feature and it works well, they could have the upper hand on Apple in this round.

Time will tell.
post #9 of 102
Quote:
Originally Posted by bryanl View Post

If it ships with 4.2.1, that came up in November, 2012. I guess the FUD train goes both ways.

 

He said MIGHT, not would. 

 

Its a valid point and one folks might want to consider. As is the security etc stuff.

 

Some folks think that Apple etc should not talk about the other companies and their stuff but at least he's doing it in a clear headed way and not bashing the cx like Samsung's ad campaign.

post #10 of 102
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogifan View Post

I find the things Schiller has decided to speak out on a bit strange.  I wonder if Apple requested to speak with Bloomberg, Reuters and WSJ or if they reached out to Apple?

 

Given that the topic is Samsung/Android its more likely they approached Apple. Specifically to get thoughts about this new phone for this timing. They will likely also try to follow up with comments after the details are out. After all nothing gets page hits like a connection to Apple. 

post #11 of 102

This does make Apple look a little desperate.  With the first new major phone in two years (iPhone 5) *and* giving away iPhone 4's for free they were able to gain 3.5% US market share.  So what do they have to counter the S IV for the next two years?  They'll likely get a minor bump from the 5s, but that will only offset the inevitable lull they get as people stop buying the iPhone 5 waiting for the 5s release.

 

Apple needs to come up with some new feature of their own, rather than trying to badmouth their competition- because like it or not Android phones are tremendous- especially if you value function over aesthetics.  

 

Apple needs new material other than the fragmentation argument.  I think that is more of a statement designed to make Apple users think they need to stay with Apple.  People with 3 year old phones running Honeycomb are obviously pretty happy with them as they don't see a need to go out and upgrade.

 

If I ask Apple if my comparable 3 year old iPhone 3s suffers from fragmentation their answer will be 'no' since it will show up as being capable of running iOS6...

 

 

User:  Can I run iOS6 on my iPhone 3s and be checked off as running the latest OS?

Apple:  Absolutely!  *

 

 

* You just cant run 3d flyover, turn by turn navigation, use the new maps app, panorama mode, offline reading list, location based reminders, personal wifi hotspots, facetime, airplay mirroring, nor can you use Siri- or really any new features actually added in the last few releases of software.  Your phone will run horrendously slow, and the battery life (if it still works and you haven't shelled out a few hundred backs for Apple to replace it) will be attrocious.  You will be running iOS6 though!  Enjoy!

 

The problem of fragmentation is a nuisance to developers, users- not so much.  If you don't like the fragmentation on your 3 year old iPhone or your 3 year old Android phone the answer is the same for either platform- buy a new one.  If you're happy with your 3 year old phone- then obviously its not an issue to you.

post #12 of 102

hmm


Edited by eksodos - 8/28/13 at 5:13pm
post #13 of 102
Phil hurt Apple mightily with these comments. He drew terrible press on the morning TV shows by saying negative things about Samsung. As one TV commentator put it, "talk is cheap." I hope that Schiller and Apple learn their lesson from this one. If Phil doesn't have something constructive to say then he should keep his mouth shut. No one is interested in his attacks on Google, android, or Samsung. If Apple has better products then it should release them. Since Apple has not had any totally new products since the Ipad, how many years ago, Phil should be at Cupertino working, not wasting time talking to the press. The way to compete with Samsung is to COMPETE. For Apple/Phil to trash Android with talk is ridiculous. Apple should be embarrassed about what Phil said and he should be rebuked by the CEO.
post #14 of 102
Quote:
Originally Posted by charlituna View Post

 

Given that the topic is Samsung/Android its more likely they approached Apple. Specifically to get thoughts about this new phone for this timing. They will likely also try to follow up with comments after the details are out. After all nothing gets page hits like a connection to Apple. 

If Schiller was smart he wouldn't have taken the bait.  I'm one who has pushed for Apple to do more PR but I think it should be on their terms.  Giving some quotes to the WJS which they can spin as Apple being on the defensive is not good PR.

post #15 of 102
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eric Hamel View Post

As much as I'm a fan of Apple products, I have to admit that the last versions of iOS feel outdated.

Samsung is following Apple's lead on focusing on 1 major feature that has the potential to change the mobile environment.

This is assuming of course that Samsung is releasing an eye-tracking feature and that it actually works as promised. This could be a game changer in hands free interaction.

However, going back to Apple, Siri was their answer to hands free interaction with mobile devices. Even though the feature had huge potential, it ended up being an unfinished product seen as gimmicky by many. Some will argue that the feature works for them, but overall is very limited in its nature. Not to mention that the feature exists for the most part on Android.

The lesson is that you only get 1 or 2 attempts at most before people move on. So if Samsung has such a feature and it works well, they could have the upper hand on Apple in this round.

Time will tell.
 

You are being "blind" here. Siri needs to "learn", it's impossible otherwise. Same thing with maps.

post #16 of 102
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eric Hamel View Post

As much as I'm a fan of Apple products, I have to admit that the last versions of iOS feel outdated.

 

The majority of customers are common users who prefer a familiar UI to relearning. They are also not enamored  of new tech to the point that they have to have every bell and whistle added right away. So an 'old' looking OS and lack of crazy stuff is fine with them.

 

but what every one needs and wants is a stable and secure OS. Androids system opens up too many possible holes and they are patched to slowly with all waiting for your carrier to add their things. Not to mention the nonsense that sometimes a phone you bought six months ago can't be updated to the new software. At least with Apple you get one, two even perhaps three OS updates even if some features aren't included.

post #17 of 102
Quote:
Originally Posted by pedromartins View Post

You are being "blind" here. Siri needs to "learn", it's impossible otherwise. Same thing with maps.

 

This. Especially with Siri. If they had waited until they had enough samples to perfect her it would never be released because there is no way Apple could find all the possible variations to bring in house

post #18 of 102

Yea Schiller, keep bashing the competition like a crybaby. Way to stay classy. That will make Apple look better in the media right? How about making iOS better instead of being jealous and insecure? As far as I am concerned, android 2.3.6 can do everything iOS 6 can. 2.5 years old android OS is as advanced a your current iOS. 

post #19 of 102
Quote:
Originally Posted by professorsteve View Post

Phil hurt Apple mightily with these comments. He drew terrible press on the morning TV shows by saying negative things about Samsung. As one TV commentator put it, "talk is cheap." I hope that Schiller and Apple learn their lesson from this one. If Phil doesn't have something constructive to say then he should keep his mouth shut. No one is interested in his attacks on Google, android, or Samsung. If Apple has better products then it should release them. Since Apple has not had any totally new products since the Ipad, how many years ago, Phil should be at Cupertino working, not wasting time talking to the press. The way to compete with Samsung is to COMPETE. For Apple/Phil to trash Android with talk is ridiculous. Apple should be embarrassed about what Phil said and he should be rebuked by the CEO.

Oh please.  Quit with the fake outrage.  The media was going to hype Apple/Samsung today whether Apple said anything or not.  And my guess is outside of CNBC and the tech sites on the Internet most people won't have a clue that Schiller said anything.  I'm flying today and I'll bet if I got on the plane and fellow passengers if they heard what Apple's marketing guy said about Android I'd get a bunch of blank stares.  And some would probably ask me what Android is.

post #20 of 102
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mars123 View Post

Yea Schiller, keep bashing the competition like a crybaby. Way to stay classy. That will make Apple look better in the media right? How about making iOS better instead of being jealous and insecure? As far as I am concerned, android 2.3.6 can do everything iOS 6 can. 2.5 years old android OS is as advanced a your current iOS. 

Isn't there some Android fan site you should be trolling on?

post #21 of 102

It's almost guaranteed to have Android 4.2 and not 4.1 The point of this entire article is moot.

post #22 of 102
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mars123 View Post

Yea Schiller, keep bashing the competition like a crybaby. Way to stay classy. That will make Apple look better in the media right? How about making iOS better instead of being jealous and insecure? As far as I am concerned, android 2.3.6 can do everything iOS 6 can. 2.5 years old android OS is as advanced a your current iOS. 

I've used Android and owned a Nexus 4 for a brief period and out of the box the OS just has half the features of iOS. Granted you can do more and add any number of features on by downloading an app to do it, but talking about the core pre-installed OS I didn't find it a patch on iOS. I became frustrated with it very quickly and frankly didn't want to waste my time hunting for a bolt on solution in the Play Store. I've no idea how manufacturer skins on Android enhance this, but just from using the Nexus 4 I found Android to be pretty poor, there were so many things that it couldn't do or that didn't just work.

post #23 of 102
Quote:
Originally Posted by NexusPhan View Post

It's almost guaranteed to have Android 4.2 and not 4.1 The point of this entire article is moot.

I wouldn't be so sure myself. 

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post #24 of 102
Quote:
Originally Posted by eksodos View Post

Very strange to see a senior Apple exec going around talking about the competition like this with the media. Apple definitely comes off a bit desperate and rattled, even if in reality they are not. Maybe they are feeling it with the plummeting value of the share price.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by professorsteve View Post

Phil hurt Apple mightily with these comments. He drew terrible press on the morning TV shows by saying negative things about Samsung. 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogifan View Post

If Schiller was smart he wouldn't have taken the bait.  I'm one who has pushed for Apple to do more PR but I think it should be on their terms.  Giving some quotes to the WJS which they can spin as Apple being on the defensive is not good PR.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mars123 View Post

Yea Schiller, keep bashing the competition like a crybaby. Way to stay classy. 

 

We don't know the circumstances of this interview. We don't know how he was approached, all the questions he was asked etc. It's possible this was part of something bigger and Reuters etc just decided to only publish these comments because of the hit fodder content that talking about this issue at this time gives them.  Truth is even if Phil had said no comment or 'we wish them well and good luck with their launch' WSJ etc would have found a way to spin it as Apple is running scared or some other negative. Because that's their game. They try to score hits by bashing Apple with selective topics, quotes, publishing negative talk from analysts etc. 

post #25 of 102
"Apple needs to come up with some new feature of their own, rather than trying to badmouth their competition-"

I think you mean Samsung there 1wink.gif

As for "keeping up", how about Samsing keeping up with OS updates?

Because even if Samsing DOES use the latest OS, will it continue to get UPDATES to the latest OS? Past history says no: they'll cut you off before your 2-year contract is even up! Imagine if Apple had that same habit--forcing you to buy new hardware before the old is paid off, just to get OS updates and even security patches? Apple supports their hardware longer.

Just one of the ways fragmentation hurts users. Another being, as you hint at, that developers make fewer and worse apps!
post #26 of 102
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogifan View Post

If Schiller was smart he wouldn't have taken the bait.  I'm one who has pushed for Apple to do more PR but I think it should be on their terms.  Giving some quotes to the WJS which they can spin as Apple being on the defensive is not good PR.


Agreed.

post #27 of 102
Quote:
Originally Posted by charlituna View Post

 

He said MIGHT, not would. 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post

Apple marketing chief Phil Schiller took aim at Android in general and Samsung in particular, saying that the Galaxy S IV will ship with "an OS that is nearly a year old" ...

AI can't get it right either. Wonder who the writer was?

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post #28 of 102

How about ALL of the execs just STFU and do their jobs?  

post #29 of 102
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frood View Post

This does make Apple look a little desperate.  With the first new major phone in two years (iPhone 5) *and* giving away iPhone 4's for free they were able to gain 3.5% US market share.  So what do they have to counter the S IV for the next two years?  They'll likely get a minor bump from the 5s, but that will only offset the inevitable lull they get as people stop buying the iPhone 5 waiting for the 5s release.

Apple needs to come up with some new feature of their own, rather than trying to badmouth their competition- because like it or not Android phones are tremendous- especially if you value function over aesthetics.  

(Trolling blah)

The 4 and 5 outsold the SG3. I never had the 4 so when I replaced my crappy android with the 4S, i was happy as well with the vast majority of 4S buyers.

Apple doesn't play the volume game. It still commands 70% of the mobile profits.
post #30 of 102
Quote:
Originally Posted by jungmark View Post


The 4 and 5 outsold the SG3.

To be honest no one knows that for certain outside of Samsung and Apple themselves (and perhaps a couple of courts). Neither will publicly break out shipments by model. Anything you've read and taking as fact has really been educated guesses and no more.

 

I do agree it's likely correct tho based on circumstantial evidence. Certainly not a fact.

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post #31 of 102
Quote:
Originally Posted by jungmark View Post


The 4 and 5 outsold the SG3. I never had the 4 so when I replaced my crappy android with the 4S, i was happy as well with the vast majority of 4S buyers.

Apple doesn't play the volume game. It still commands 70% of the mobile profits.

Same rehashed dated comment on multiple threads.

post #32 of 102

Its not that apple doesn't play the volume game, Apple lost the volume game to samsung. Now all they have left is the profit margin. How is having a high profit margin good for the consumers? Doesn't it mean they are overcharging the customers for something that isn't worth as much? Why should consumers be happy that Apple makes the most profit off them if they buy an apple product? 

post #33 of 102
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eric Hamel View Post

As much as I'm a fan of Apple products, I have to admit that the last versions of iOS feel outdated.
 

 

That's what's most disturbing about a comment like "ship with an OS that is nearly a year old" - iOS is 6 months old (more if you count when betas started showing up), and that's also just assuming that Samsung doesn't roll this new phone out with an updated version of Android.  I'm an iOS user and really would like to see updated (and new) features that put the iPhone / iPad ahead, not read FUD statements about how the competition might ship with an OS just a bit older than iOS6 - which is, frankly, almost unchanged since iOS4. How about nice multitasking/process switching like PreOS had? Working Siri? Working Maps? (I just asked for directions to a nearby park the other day, got back something like a 10 hour drive to another state... And that's the sort of thing that has happened repeatedly to where I don't trust the map engine!) Better landing page and/or lock screen? Something else really new!?

 

I look to Apple to innovate. I understand that they have been ruthlessly copied in both hardware and software design and that the courts apparently aren't giving any meaningful protection, but they are making plenty of money and really need to keep showing others what actual innovation looks like.  Higher res screens / faster CPUs / better battery life are all nice but totally expected thanks to progress in electronics.  Having Samsung essentially scoop them with face-recognition integration just makes it kind of look like Apple is coasting. :/ (And I'm hopeful that there will be new tech coming - fingerprint readers, haptic feedback, ???)

post #34 of 102
As long as it is at least on the Jelly Bean platform, the exact version has far less effect on the user's experience than the TouchWiz overlay does. Whether or not the UI will be an enjoyable experience is much more dependent on how well that has been designed.

I personally have never been a fan of TouchWiz, and prefer to use vanilla android, especially as of ICS forward. If I had to pick a vendor overlay I think it would be HTC's Sense. Having said that, I've seen more people actually liking TouchWiz recently with the SGS3's and Note's popularity.

tl;dr: The exact version of Android doesn't matter, it's what they did with TouchWiz that really counts.
post #35 of 102
Quote:
Originally Posted by charlituna View Post

 

The majority of customers are common users who prefer a familiar UI to relearning. ... So an 'old' looking OS and lack of crazy stuff is fine with them.

 

Androids system opens up too many possible holes and they are patched to slowly with all waiting for your carrier to add their things. Not to mention the nonsense that sometimes a phone you bought six months ago can't be updated to the new software 

 

If the majority of customers prefers a "familiar UI ... so an old looking OS and lack of crazy stuff is fine with them" then the ""nonsense that sometimes a phone you bought six months ago can't be updated to the new software" is entirely a moot point.

 

Android phones are wonderful, and Apple will continue making great products.

post #36 of 102
Quote:
Originally Posted by bleh1234 View Post

Same rehashed dated comment on multiple threads.

Same thing could be said with all the trolling comments.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gatorguy View Post

To be honest no one knows that for certain outside of Samsung and Apple themselves (and perhaps a couple of courts). Neither will publicly break out shipments by model. Anything you've read and taking as fact has really been educated guesses and no more.

I do agree it's likely correct tho based on circumstantial evidence. Certainly not a fact.

It's interesting that you're skeptical when something appears in Apple's favor but when it's the other way you take it as fact. Apple may not break it out by model but they do give us a real number unlike Sammy.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mars123 View Post

Its not that apple doesn't play the volume game, Apple lost the volume game to samsung. Now all they have left is the profit margin. How is having a high profit margin good for the consumers? Doesn't it mean they are overcharging the customers for something that isn't worth as much? Why should consumers be happy that Apple makes the most profit off them if they buy an apple product? 

I don't believe Apple has ever had the lead in market share. Initially it has been Symbian or blackberry.

It certainly does suck that all Apple has left is profit share. I mean how can they pay the bills? On the PC side, Dell and HP lead the market. They are doing great! /s
post #37 of 102
Quote:
Originally Posted by jungmark View Post
It's interesting that you're skeptical when something appears in Apple's favor but when it's the other way you take it as fact. 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gatorguy View Post

To be honest no one knows that for certain outside of Samsung and Apple themselves (and perhaps a couple of courts). Neither will publicly break out shipments by model. Anything you've read and taking as fact has really been educated guesses and no more.

 

I do agree it's likely correct tho based on circumstantial evidence. Certainly not a fact.

What...?

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post #38 of 102
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eric Hamel View Post

...  Samsung is following Apple's lead on focusing on 1 major feature that has the potential to change the mobile environment.
This is assuming of course that Samsung is releasing an eye-tracking feature and that it actually works as promised. This could be a game changer in hands free interaction.
...
 

 

That whole "eye-tracking" thing is total nonsense/BS and anyone with any kind of engineering or design competency can see so.  

 

Eye tracking has been around for many years now, it barely works at all even in a desktop setting where the computer is stationary and the user is always in the same place and orientation in respect to the equipment.  It also has barely any usability even when it works.  Rolling your eyes (deeply ironic) or blinking or nodding your head to make something happen on the screen is of great use to someone without hands or a voice but that's about it.  

 

Additionally, the idea that the phone can "sense" what you want to do based on such cues is somewhere between highly dubious and flat out impossible.  Artificial intelligence simply isn't that good and the detection hardware isn't that good either.  If a phone cannot reliably recognise a face presented to it's camera when you stand perfectly still (it can't), how will any of this eye-tracking nonsense actually be useful or reliable?  The answer is that it won't.  

 

The only thing that surprises me about Samsung's new tech is the great coverage it's getting from the gullible tech press.  They should (and mostly do) know better, but instead they are just presenting it to us with a blank face and no comment (in order to give it the "benefit of the doubt" I suppose).  

 

But that kind of false "fairness" is a big part of what's wrong with journalism today in general.  

Far better for the consumer, to point out when the Emperor has no clothes.  


Edited by Gazoobee - 3/14/13 at 8:45am
post #39 of 102
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogifan View Post

If Schiller was smart he wouldn't have taken the bait.  I'm one who has pushed for Apple to do more PR but I think it should be on their terms.  Giving some quotes to the WJS which they can spin as Apple being on the defensive is not good PR.

 

True, but what the article fails to make clear is that he made these comments to Reuters, because the WSJ article basically ripped him to shreds.  He gave an interview in good faith with a leading publication and every comment in it he makes is clear, positive and more on the attack than anything else.  Then they publish an article about how Apple is going down and Phil Schiller is "defensive."  WTF?!  1confused.gif

 

I agree he should have stayed silent, but my take on it is that he was pissed at being taken for a ride by the WSJ and tried to retaliate a bit.  

post #40 of 102

Well, Apple hasn't updated Mountain Lion for about 6months.

 

Apple.  Don't do this.  So disappointing. 

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