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Samsung's new CEO reveals 'lackluster demand' for Windows products

post #1 of 46
Thread Starter 
On the evening that his company unveiled the follow-up to its best-selling Android smartphone, Samsung's new CEO spoke some harsh truths about the prospects of another of Samsung's software partners, saying demand for Microsoft products in the mobile sector is "lackluster."

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J.K. Shin, Samsung's 57-year-old CEO, made the remarks in the course of an interview with The Wall Street Journal. Shin's comments on Windows came as he discussed the company's relationship to Android, the Google operating system that powers Samsung's Galaxy S 4 handset.

"Smartphones and tablets based on Microsoft's Windows operating system aren't selling very well," Shin said. "There is a preference in the market for Android. In Europe, we're also seeing lackluster demand for Windows-based products."

Shin's remarks, in the context of the interview, seem to preclude the possibility that the South Korean conglomerate may begin working more closely with Microsoft on Windows devices. Samsung makes a number of Windows Phone 8 and Windows 8 devices, as well as tablets running ARM-based Windows RT. Recent reports, though, have Samsung discontinuing sales of its Windows RT devices in Germany; this after confirming in January that it would not launch Windows RT devices in the United States.

Shin's remarks likely will not gain him any friends within Microsoft, which has been struggling since a weak Windows 8 launch to generate buzz around its latest operating system. The company's most recent quarterly results show the difficulty of Microsoft's situation. The PCs Microsoft's manufacturing partners make simply are not selling, as customers increasingly opt for smartphones and tablets instead.

Microsoft has begun offering price breaks on Windows and Office offerings in an effort to grow market share. Projections for the tablet market, though, see Windows devices only reaching about 10 percent share over the next 4 years.
post #2 of 46
Wow...it reminds me of the story told to James Bond by Silva in Skyfall...you put all the rats in a barrel and starve them...soon they begin each other until there are only 2 left. You turn those 2 loose but now, they only eat other rats...
post #3 of 46
Well put.
post #4 of 46
How does this correlate with the claims that people only buy Samsung phones because they are Samsungs, and not because they run Android?

Why aren't the Samsung WP8 phones selling?
post #5 of 46
Dirty Samsung. It is a kind of monopoly in Silicon chips. So, it makes these kind of cheap comments. Junkk.
post #6 of 46
When I think about the Surface I always go back to the unveiling of the device when the thing Froze and it had to be switched to another one. That was so sad and yet almost expected since it was a Microsoft device.

Microsoft is reaping what it sowed. They made Vista and gave it to the public. Windows 7 was better but it still had the inherent flaws of the Windows OS. Windows 8 is confusing to some people.

When competing brands of cell phones run better than a desktop computer running Windows, expect defections. People see more options and are realizing that there are better things out there than Windows. Windows is surviving only because so many people just haven't tried anything else.

The iPad would put away Windows forever if it just had a good file system and an SD card reader. It would become a computer replacement and Microsoft would have to become a gaming device maker instead of a computer manufacturer. Windows would fade away quickly as the iPads and Macs would take over.
post #7 of 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by stike vomit View Post

How does this correlate with the claims that people only buy Samsung phones because they are Samsungs, and not because they run Android?

Why aren't the Samsung WP8 phones selling?

Because we don't have super cheap Windows phone from Samsung? Another reason is I don't think people 'asking for' Windows on the phone. The word "Windows" make a phone seems complicated and scary.

post #8 of 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by Smallwheels View Post

The iPad would put away Windows forever if it just had a good file system and an SD card reader. It would become a computer replacement and Microsoft would have to become a gaming device maker instead of a computer manufacturer. Windows would fade away quickly as the iPads and Macs would take over.

Past failed TabletPC attempt and the current Surface RT is the proof that SD reader and a file system are bags of hurts on touch oriented devices. 

post #9 of 46

deleted


Edited by MacRulez - 7/23/13 at 9:29am
post #10 of 46

oh gosh, I'm on APPLEinsider... I thought I was samgsider.com. Only thing that made me realize i was here was the AI logo in top left.

post #11 of 46

My guess is Google will lose control of Android to Samsung. It don't see any other Android company able to innovate with Android like Samsung. What will this mean for Android as a whole?  Samsung might simply permanently branch Android off into their own OS, give a different name perhaps, with Google's Android withering away along with Windows 8. 

post #12 of 46

Microsoft's entire mobile, Post-PC effort, starting from October 2010 (release of windows phone) has been a disaster. Their entire program as it stands is a non-starter. And it's been over three years already. 

post #13 of 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chandra69 View Post

Dirty Samsung. It is a kind of monopoly in Silicon chips. So, it makes these kind of cheap comments. Junkk.

 

 

Seems Samsung understands that consumers don't care about Microsoft's "me too" Post-PC products. 

 

That's a big problem, for Microsoft, not Samsung. 

post #14 of 46

 

Quote:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chandra69 View Post

Dirty Samsung. It is a kind of monopoly in Silicon chips. So, it makes these kind of cheap comments.

What is it you find so attractive in Windows 8?

If I tell something bad about Samsung, that does not mean that I like something about Windows 8.  

 

I hate the way Samsung treats partners.  Yesterday it did not even mention its partners - Google. And, not a single mention of Android.

post #15 of 46

 

Quote:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chandra69 View Post

Dirty Samsung. It is a kind of monopoly in Silicon chips. So, it makes these kind of cheap comments. Junkk.

 

 

Seems Samsung understands that consumers don't care about Microsoft's "me too" Post-PC products. 

 

That's a big problem, for Microsoft, not Samsung. 

Yes. Samsung is a threat to which ever it is in partnership with.  It now shaving the windows head.

It is developing Tizen.  I cant wait Samsung to Ditch Google leaving Android and fully develop an entire ecosystem of Tizen.  It is going to happen.

Yesterday it mentioned about their own App store kinda stuff.  

 

Samsung is dangerous. 

post #16 of 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by waldobushman View Post

My guess is Google will lose control of Android to Samsung. It don't see any other Android company able to innovate with Android like Samsung. What will this mean for Android as a whole?  Samsung might simply permanently branch Android off into their own OS, give a different name perhaps, with Google's Android withering away along with Windows 8. 

 

ROFL!  Samesung innovate?  you mean shamelessly copy and steal from Apple?  Samesung would be nothing without copying Apples innovation.

post #17 of 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by waldobushman View Post

My guess is Google will lose control of Android to Samsung. It don't see any other Android company able to innovate with Android like Samsung. What will this mean for Android as a whole?  Samsung might simply permanently branch Android off into their own OS, give a different name perhaps, with Google's Android withering away along with Windows 8. 

Exactly. Google is so stupid to give away Android for free. Sammy will fork it and remove Google services in favor of its own crapware. Google will then be marginalized when the top two smartphone vendors won't use any google services.
post #18 of 46

Not suprised in the least Windows is a total failure.  The UI is an abomination...totally unusable.  And the cost...LOL.  IF the Windows cloner machines were sub $100 they might sell. 

post #19 of 46

deleted


Edited by MacRulez - 7/23/13 at 9:29am
post #20 of 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by jungmark View Post


Exactly. Google is so stupid to give away Android for free. Sammy will fork it and remove Google services in favor of its own crapware. Google will then be marginalized when the top two smartphone vendors won't use any google services.

 

Thus the real reason Google bought Motorola.  They saw it coming and hedged their bets, I'm guessing.

post #21 of 46
Who Cares What "Dirty Shin" Says About Anything! And this is Apple News How? Is This Now Samscum-Insider! Done with Appleinsider!
post #22 of 46
Come on Microsoft. Step up your game so Samsung can get more product "ideas".
post #23 of 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by waldobushman View Post

My guess is Google will lose control of Android to Samsung. It don't see any other Android company able to innovate with Android like Samsung. What will this mean for Android as a whole?  Samsung might simply permanently branch Android off into their own OS, give a different name perhaps, with Google's Android withering away along with Windows 8. 

 

People keep saying this.  But I have my doubts.  The parts that you most use on an Android phone are all the Google services.  Google contacts.  GMail.  Maps.  Search.  Play store.  And increasingly Google Now.

 

Samsung is definitely trying to de-emphasize Google.  But good luck to them if they think they can ditch Google and succeed.  Apple took flak for its maps.  I can't imagine that Samsung has anywhere near the ability to offer that one service, let alone all the services that Google offers on Android.

 

In any event, when Samsung's high-end Tizen phone launches in the Fall, we'll get to see if there's more traction for Samsung than Android.

post #24 of 46

 

Quote:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chandra69 View Post

If I tell something bad about Samsung, that does not mean that I like something about Windows 8.

 

I hate the way Samsung treats partners.  Yesterday it did not even mention its partners - Google. And, not a single mention of Android.

Why does that bother you?   How does it affect your enjoyment of Apple products?

 

 

Can't really sustain the noise of Fandroids.  of course, it does not stop me from enjoying Apple products! :D

post #25 of 46

Why, why Microsoft still in bed with Samsung?

post #26 of 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by allenbf View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by jungmark View Post


Exactly. Google is so stupid to give away Android for free. Sammy will fork it and remove Google services in favor of its own crapware. Google will then be marginalized when the top two smartphone vendors won't use any google services.

 

Thus the real reason Google bought Motorola.  They saw it coming and hedged their bets, I'm guessing.

Google Play is still needed by Samsung. They don't have the street-cred or ecosystem to attract developers. Google bought Motorola primarily for the patents as protection against getting sued by Apple or Nokia over Android, not to compete with Samsung. They will make some phones, sure, but that is not the primary focus for them. 

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post #27 of 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by waldobushman View Post

What will this mean for Android as a whole?  Samsung might simply permanently branch Android off into their own OS, give a different name perhaps, with Google's Android withering away along with Windows 8. 

What goes around, comes around.

post #28 of 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacRulez View Post

Why does that bother you?   ...

 

Bad behaviour in general should "bother" any normal moral person.  

 

If we all cared only about what directly affected us personally and ignored everything else, the world would be a horrible place indeed.

Despite what you hear about "don't judge me bro," judging others is actually the very basis of civilisation and civilised behaviour. 

post #29 of 46
Here's my wild guess at Samsung's mobile strategy:

1. Distance themselves from Windows Phone and Windows 8 for Surface
2. Gradually add proprietary UI and system-level features to Android
3. Evolve Tizen by adding those same UI and system-level features
4. Replace Android with Tizen in all handheld mobile products

It's clear that Samsung has already taken the first two steps, and it's possible that they're well into the third step (developing Tizen as a replacement for Android.)

And why would Samsung want to replace Android with Tizen? To control their own destiny by owning the hardware and the OS that runs on it. You know, kind of like Apple. Relying on Microsoft for survival in the post-PC era would be disastrous. Out of the question. Microsoft has proven again and again that they have no passion for anything but legacy desktop Windows Office Enterprise.

Relying on Google is hardly any better. Google has proven again and again that Android's only reason for existence is to deliver ads. 96% of Google's revenue comes from ads. They are an advertisement company. And now that they've dumped $12.5 billion into the Motorola Money Pit (tm) they'll be looking to recoup that investment with, yes, you guessed it, more ad revenue.

It's suicide for Samsung to rely on an OS partner whose long-term goals are orthogonal to their own. Software-centric companies like Microsoft and Google have vastly different business models than hardware-centric companies like Samsung. And even if you *do* own both the hardware and OS, you could still go down in flames (e.g. Palm WebOS.) Good luck with Tizen, Sammy.

Or, as many commenters have suggested, Samsung could fork Android the way Amazon did. There would be no need to repeatedly merge all that Samsung-proprietary code with every new generic Android release (e.g. Samsung Hub which replaces Google Play, and Knox which provides Enterprise-level security unlike generic Android.) And by forking some base Android release and staying with that fork ad infinitum, Samsung could optimize that fork for their own specific hardware.

Either way (Tizen or forked Android) the consumer need never know. They'll just be using an alternative app store, alternative services, and an alternative cloud infrastructure. Oh, and Tizen can run Android apps using OpenMobile's Application Compatibility Layer.

The Galaxy brand name already has vastly more consumer mindshare than "Android" (or "droid," a trademark is owned by Verizon, by the way.) Maybe that's why Samsung didn't mention the word "Android" even once in their Galaxy S4 launch presentation.
Edited by SockRolid - 3/15/13 at 11:15am

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post #30 of 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by bullhead View Post

Not suprised in the least Windows is a total failure.  The UI is an abomination...totally unusable.  And the cost...LOL.  IF the Windows cloner machines were sub $100 they might sell. 


Really? Interesting. I use Windows and Mac everyday and both work fine.

 

I prefer Mac for home, but Windows for work. I'd consider a Windows phone if the hardware was better. Or even a Windows laptop, but the Apple hardware experience is far and away the best bar none.

post #31 of 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone View Post

Google Play is still needed by Samsung. They don't have the street-cred or ecosystem to attract developers. Google bought Motorola primarily for the patents as protection against getting sued by Apple or Nokia over Android, not to compete with Samsung. They will make some phones, sure, but that is not the primary focus for them. 

 

Open your eyes.  Did you see their launch event?  Samsung is doing everything possible to create a complete ecosystem of products, software and services.  They obviously are taking a page out of Apple's playbook.  They also have created tons of their own services and software that either supplement or mask google's offerings.

 

Developers only have to resubmit their app to samsung's store and their good to go.  The real point of inflection is when they submit separate apps specifically made or optimized for Samsung products or any forked version of Andriod or tizen.

post #32 of 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by SockRolid View Post

The Galaxy brand name already has vastly more consumer mindshare than "Android" (or "droid," a trademark is owned by Verizon, by the way.) Maybe that's why Samsung didn't mention the word "Android" even once in their Galaxy S4 launch presentation.

Technically "droid" is owned by LucasFilms/Disney. VZN just licensed it. But I agree Galaxy has more meaning than Android at this moment. Tough luck for Google.
post #33 of 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chandra69 View Post
 

Yes. Samsung is a threat to which ever it is in partnership with.  Samsung is dangerous. 

 

Something Apple found out the hard way.

post #34 of 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by waldobushman View Post

My guess is Google will lose control of Android to Samsung. It don't see any other Android company able to innovate with Android like Samsung. What will this mean for Android as a whole?  Samsung might simply permanently branch Android off into their own OS, give a different name perhaps, with Google's Android withering away along with Windows 8. 

 

Samsung may branch Android, however they can only do so from where Google has taken it. In a sense, if Google stops developing Android, then that defines the growth of Android.

 

Apple, on the other hand, owns iOS and can keep moving the stakes as it wishes. 

 

Why would Google stop developing Android? First, the payback isn't what it was supposed to be. Google's customers still make more money from iOS users. Secondly, Google's management has a strong history of being easily distracted from last years "new shiny" and leaving users abandoned with their old "new" toys.

post #35 of 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by pfisher View Post


Really? Interesting. I use Windows and Mac everyday and both work fine.

 

I prefer Mac for home, but Windows for work. I'd consider a Windows phone if the hardware was better. Or even a Windows laptop, but the Apple hardware experience is far and away the best bar none.

I think he's saying that Windows 8 requires too much hardware resources to by cost competitive, plus you need to add in a touch-sensitive screen.

post #36 of 46
More Apple news, please.

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post #37 of 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ochyming View Post

Why, why Microsoft still in bed with Samsung?

 

Ballmer will bend over for any manufacturer who might make hardware that will run their crapware. There is no shred of dignity left.

post #38 of 46
"Projections for the tablet market, though, see Windows devices only reaching about 10 percent share over the next 4 years."

That must be another of those overly-optimistic IDC projections. Nothing in my math comes anywhere close to 10%. Low single-digits at best, assuming anyone other than Microsoft is even making Windows "tablets" 4 years from now.
post #39 of 46

deleted


Edited by MacRulez - 7/23/13 at 9:28am
post #40 of 46

So Samsung is as bad at treating its partners as MS does. Its like an irresistible force meeting an immovable object. 

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