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Why did Apple hire Adobe CTO Kevin Lynch? - Page 2

post #41 of 198
Quote:

Originally Posted by InfoDave View Post
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogifan View Post

Can someone explain why this guy would be a good replacement for Mansfield?  Mansfield is a hardware guy.  What does this guy know about silicon, silicon, semiconductors, SOCs, wireless, etc.?

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by stelligent View Post

A software guy cannot be a hardware guy's clear replacement.

 

I'm with these guys.

 

I'm joining your party.

 

It is possible that Mansfield is working on a new product that requires software development beyond what Mac OS and iOS offer. Rather than just taking talent from currently well-stretched teams, he needed/wanted his own software leader to help him. So it's not about grooming Lynch to replace Mansfield, but rather about hiring some help for Mansfield.

post #42 of 198
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogifan View Post

Can someone explain why this guy would be a good replacement for Mansfield?  Mansfield is a hardware guy.  What does this guy know about silicon, silicon, semiconductors, SOCs, wireless, etc.?

Exactly. Mansfield's background is hardware, Lynch's software. Mansfield retired because he hated working with Forstall. Lynch is not Mansfield's replacement.
post #43 of 198
Quote:
Originally Posted by dreyfus2 View Post

Could it be that Cook, while being a great CEO, does not quite have a knack for recruitment and resource management? He has backed the disastrous Browett recruitment with a vengeance, the position is still vacant and temporarily filled by an accountant named Bean (1smoking.gif), we do not know yet, if Ives can really stand in for Forstall (who, IMHO, was right not to apologize for Maps, was Apple's best presenter after Jobs, and did a hell of a Job managing iOS) and gave more duties to Eddy Cue, who might be a great negotiator with media companies, but has failed to deliver any barely respectable online service so far, one that can just compete with start-ups... and they had to throw serious money (deservedly, no doubt, but still) at Bob Mansfield to even stay as there was obviously no suitable replacement.

In addition, compared to Cook himself, his replacement in Operations has been an unmitigated disaster in managing the supply chain thus far.

post #44 of 198
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogifan View Post

Lets not forget though that under Steve's watch we got the awful Corinthian stitched leather, the mess that is Game Center, etc.

Yeah, that was on par with his decision to introduce the iMac, the iPad, the iPhone, the iPod, OSX, iOS, get rid of Flash, (I could go on).......

 

/s

post #45 of 198
Quote:
Originally Posted by ThePixelDoc View Post


And speaking of graphics... well you shouldn't get me started is a fair warning to ya. Because while Adobe is seen by the media and even the graphic design/printing industry as being the "industry leader", they (Adobe) have caused more real pain and suffering over the last 5-7 years than they have added to our professions.

PS. The following link (if anyone cares) takes you to Adobe's Illustrator Forum, where designers... many of them Mac users... are questioning why Illustrator not only doesn't work, but why no matter how much computer power, RAM, disk space you throw at it, it's slower to perform simple tasks that were split second responses over 15 YEARS AGO with discontinued software, as well as recent competitor software. Observation 169 + 170

I began swapping my company's vector design software over to Coreldraw a few years back, beginning with X3. While it had some relatively minor compatibility and color issues it offered faster loading and rendering, lower overhead requirements, much better text handling, smoother gradients and a much easier learning curve for newbies ("kids" get replaced around here more often than I'd prefer. STAY IN SCHOOL). Each successive upgrade has given us even fewer reasons to lean on Illustrator for bread-n-butter work. With last years X6 even the traditionally better color rendering of Illustrator became a moot point.

We still have CS5 and still put it to use daily, but most often for Photoshop work, which oft-times then gets imported and combined with Corel files without issue. Illustrator may only get launched a couple dozen times a month anymore. It's a bloated pig IMO, no longer a pleasure to work with. Adobe hasn't impressed me for a few years now.

That's my opinion anyway.
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post #46 of 198
Just goes to show that in Technology, as in politics, there are no permanent friends (Forstall) or permanent enemies (Lynch).

My long-term money's on a triumphant return of Scott from the Antarctic...
post #47 of 198
Quote:
Originally Posted by karmadave View Post

Adobe is good at cranking out new versions, of existing products, with 'brutal efficiency'. Apple's recent software efforts have been lagging, in my opinion, so bringing in a guy with software experience makes some sense. Apple REALLY needs to get it's act together in Cloud services. This has never been one of the company's strengths dating all the way back to the AppleLink debacle. iCloud is really not much more than sync technology with very little application functionality. The future of software is the Cloud and having successfully helped Adobe transition many of it's applications to the Cloud I am sure Apple is looking for him to help them do the same. That's my take...

Really? Then why is it that it took them ages to get PPC versions of their software for the Mac - even though the Mac accounted for the majority of their sales at the time? Why did it take them ages to get Intel versions of their Mac software? And why is it that most of their recent versions have been criticized as offering no real advantages over the previous versions?
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post #48 of 198
Quote:
Originally Posted by ankleskater View Post

 

I'm joining your party.

 

It is possible that Mansfield is working on a new product that requires software development beyond what Mac OS and iOS offer. Rather than just taking talent from currently well-stretched teams, he needed/wanted his own software leader to help him. So it's not about grooming Lynch to replace Mansfield, but rather about hiring some help for Mansfield.

According to allthingsd: "At Apple, he’ll have a much less senior position, but potentially an important one, where he’ll be tasked with coordinating the company’s hardware and software teams."

 

Not exactly sure what that means since we have SVPs for software and hardware plus Ive now being involved in Software.   Kind of odd.

post #49 of 198

Gruber and Dalrymple might not always get things right but when they question whether this was a good hire then it gives me pause.  Hopefully it's not another Papermaster situation.

post #50 of 198
Quote:
Originally Posted by anantksundaram View Post

Yeah, that was on par with his decision to introduce the iMac, the iPad, the iPhone, the iPod, OSX, iOS, get rid of Flash, (I could go on).......

 

/s

I know you're just tweaking, but I was making that comment in the context of Ive being given control of Software UI (and wondering if that was the right thing for Cook to do).  From the little that we know, my guess is he and Steve didn't always see eye to eye on software design.  But under Steve, Ive knew his place which was hardware.  Cook doesn't have those boundaries.

post #51 of 198
There's a hiring trend here that is beginning to bother me. At the risk of creating flame-bait, I rather liked what seemed (from the outside) to be Steve Jobs's ruthless nature when it came to matters like this.

Jobs had a technical and philosophical objection to Flash. That alone rules Lynch out.

Same goes for Cook's/Apple's recent announcement that they've rehired Trattner, the man (or one of them) behind the insanely horrid Genius ads that ran during the Olympics.

Going back a few months, Cook's tapping of Browett never would have happened, IMHO. One look at his resume and Jobs would have passed over him.

I miss Jobs's "Off with his head!" modus operandi. While it produced mistakes, looking back it more often than not appeared to be erring on the right side of things.
Edited by cherrypop - 3/20/13 at 6:42am
post #52 of 198
Quote:
Originally Posted by dmarcoot View Post

As a stock holder this is really the first thing Cook has done that makes me question how long I should keep my investment. This guy seems like an ass clown. The Maps apology was a mistake (they never should have. it certainly didn't have the intended effect of softening the media coverage did it?) But this guy brings nothing. His track record at adobe is proof of that. If he replaces Mansfield, Im selling.

 

And silly comments like these are why Apple shouldn't care about its stock price. It should just be doing what it needs to do and not what stupid stockholders think is best for the company when they don't know their ass from a hole in the ground when it comes to running a company, especially one like Apple. Ignore shareholders!!!

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post #53 of 198
When one looks at the Executive Profiles for Apple, what jumps out is the absence of any women in senior roles. Remedying that omission should have been Tim Cook's priority for a new senior hire.
post #54 of 198
Bob Mensfeld is Hardware guy. Kevin is software architect. I dont know how do they fit.
I feel this guys is hired for creative suite.
post #55 of 198
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogifan View Post

Basically what Cook did was align things by function (design, hardware, software, services) instead of product lines.

And once you do that it necessarily changes the way you have to hire. You can no longer simply look at the products someone has produced (such as the Dixon's Stores or the Flash Player), you have to look at abstract resume bullet points and see whether they match the abstract role you are hiring for now. You have set yourself up for more of a lottery in the hiring process.

post #56 of 198
Quote:
Originally Posted by dmarcoot View Post

absurd hire. His past experience in 90's is meaningless as it was an entirely different era. its his judgement in guiding Adobe down the wrong path this century is what matters. He wasn't simply marketing Flash (and his Marketing chops are horrific from the video Gruber linked to) , he was the CTO. His job was to give Adobe his best guidance about future technologies and he FAILED miserably.

I am seriously questioning Cook's ability to access talent. Jobs could look right thru a guy and sum them up in a second. Cook apparently believes the resume BS and unable to judge what is important

Jobs hired (and fired?) Pagemaster. Give the guy a chance. Since he will not be the leader of any group, he has to conform to Apple culture. He didn't have final say on anything.
post #57 of 198
Quote:
Originally Posted by professorsteve View Post

When one looks at the Executive Profiles for Apple, what jumps out is the absence of any women in senior roles. Remedying that omission should have been Tim Cook's priority for a new senior hire.


Why is singling out any group for preferential treatment any less offensive than excluding a group?

Apple's senior positions are truly the pinnacle of the entire industry. Unfortunately, there are few (if any) women who have proven themselves at that level. The retail position would have been the most likely one, but they apparently didn't find any women they liked for that job.

I'd prefer for Apple to hire the best person for a job - regardless of age, sex, color, sexual preference, or any other extraneous factor.
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post #58 of 198
Quote:
Originally Posted by anantksundaram View Post

In addition, compared to Cook himself, his replacement in Operations has been an unmitigated disaster in managing the supply chain thus far.

Hey, maybe YOU could tell us what exactly the problems were with the screen lamination on the iMacs, and the GF/2 film laminations on the iPad mini. Was it a matter of adding suppliers and lines? Inherehent difficulties in these processes? Yeilds? Supplies?

Surely you must know the details, since you're saying that the COO is completely responsible.
post #59 of 198
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogifan View Post

Can someone explain why this guy would be a good replacement for Mansfield?  Mansfield is a hardware guy.  What does this guy know about silicon, silicon, semiconductors, SOCs, wireless, etc.?

My thoughts exactly. With his background (absent Flash involvement) I'd hope he is going to kick Apple's software division in the next decade. iWorks and iLife need to be taken to the next level, perhaps as consumer and pro versions.. I love Apple's own software, its intuitive ease of use and interoperability but there is much to be done. To name but one, iWEb into iWeb Pro (or WebPro) with kick ass HTML5 and something like Hype built in ... Then reabsorb Claris, sorry FileMaker, and make its product line into an affordable database element in iWorks with iCloud support built into all these products where appropriate.

I think that last point should be made louder. Apple should take back FileMaker into the fold and add database technology into iWorks / Works Pro X (select your own name).
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post #60 of 198
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogifan View Post

Gruber and Dalrymple might not always get things right but when they question whether this was a good hire then it gives me pause.  Hopefully it's not another Papermaster situation.


Dalrymple has one trick - he has someone at Apple telling him when to say Yes or Nope. Beyond that, he makes a living mocking anything non-Apple, without any real technical know-how.

 

Gruber is a deeper thinker and has software chops. So, his opinions are worth more, and he is clearly more successful as a blogger.

 

Regardless, both are jumping on Lynch for one reason - Flash. But he was working for Adobe at the time, what else was he going to do?

post #61 of 198
Quote:
Originally Posted by Flaneur View Post


Hey, maybe YOU could tell us what exactly the problems were with the screen lamination on the iMacs, and the GF/2 film laminations on the iPad mini. Was it a matter of adding suppliers and lines? Inherehent difficulties in these processes? Yeilds? Supplies?

Surely you must know the details, since you're saying that the COO is completely responsible.


Someone at Apple is ultimately responsible even if the problem is in China. Why is that so difficult for you to understand?

post #62 of 198
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta View Post


Why is singling out any group for preferential treatment any less offensive than excluding a group?

Apple's senior positions are truly the pinnacle of the entire industry. Unfortunately, there are few (if any) women who have proven themselves at that level. The retail position would have been the most likely one, but they apparently didn't find any women they liked for that job.

I'd prefer for Apple to hire the best person for a job - regardless of age, sex, color, sexual preference, or any other extraneous factor.


When all other things are equal, a company like Apple should give serious consideration to hiring women and minorities. They seem to be the only major tech company with neither in their senior ranks right now. I don't for a second believe this is deliberate, but it is sticking out like a sore thumb.

post #63 of 198
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chandra69 View Post

Bob Mensfeld is Hardware guy. Kevin is software architect. I dont know how do they fit.
I feel this guys is hired for creative suite.


Or a new product that requires both.

post #64 of 198
Quote:
Originally Posted by jungmark View Post


Jobs hired (and fired?) Pagemaster. Give the guy a chance. Since he will not be the leader of any group, he has to conform to Apple culture. He didn't have final say on anything.


Papermaster :)

post #65 of 198
Quote:
Originally Posted by InfoDave View Post

 

 

I'm with these guys.

yep....what he said....

I mean Apple has made bone head hirings(Pagemaster) before...but for the most part Apple continues to do the smart thing. So they must have something in mind for this hiring...time will tell.

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post #66 of 198
Quote:
Originally Posted by professorsteve View Post

When one looks at the Executive Profiles for Apple, what jumps out is the absence of any women in senior roles. Remedying that omission should have been Tim Cook's priority for a new senior hire.

People shouldn't be hired based on gender.  And this guy isn't senior enough to make the executive page.

post #67 of 198
Quote:
Originally Posted by monstrosity View Post

You can't knock Shiller for his Flash history, because back then (in the hands of Macromedia) Flash was revolutionary.

 

 

Flash used to have a cool interface and free hand ability to draw. Adobe messed it up. Further, people have to start somewhere. If your employer supports something, you will support something.

post #68 of 198
Originally Posted by professorsteve View Post
When one looks at the Executive Profiles for Apple, what jumps out is the absence of any women in senior roles. Remedying that omission should have been Tim Cook's priority for a new senior hire.

 

NO.


Originally Posted by ankleskater View Post
I don't for a second believe this is deliberate, but it is sticking out like a sore thumb.

 

Not in the slightest.

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post #69 of 198
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogifan View Post

People shouldn't be hired based on gender.  And this guy isn't senior enough to make the executive page.

 

 

I agree. Gender should rarely be a consideration when hiring. Hire the best people for the position you need to hire period. 

post #70 of 198
Quote:
Originally Posted by ankleskater View Post


When all other things are equal, a company like Apple should give serious consideration to hiring women and minorities. They seem to be the only major tech company with neither in their senior ranks right now. I don't for a second believe this is deliberate, but it is sticking out like a sore thumb.

Doing that wouldn't get Apple any brownie points.  All people would say is its a token hire just for PR purposes.

post #71 of 198
Quote:
Originally Posted by Flaneur View Post

Hey, maybe YOU could tell us what exactly the problems were with the screen lamination on the iMacs, and the GF/2 film laminations on the iPad mini. Was it a matter of adding suppliers and lines? Inherehent difficulties in these processes? Yeilds? Supplies?

Surely you must know the details, since you're saying that the COO is completely responsible.

Hey, I don't work there, but sure as heck can reasonably surmise -- based on all the news, the shortages and delays esp. in iMacs, and the severely negative stock price reaction -- that they've been having major supply chain issues. In most companies, it's the Ops guy/gal that's responsible.

 

If you want to be cute-sy about it, that's your wont.

post #72 of 198
Quote:
Originally Posted by digitalclips View Post


My thoughts exactly. With his background (absent Flash involvement) I'd hope he is going to kick Apple's software division in the next decade. iWorks and iLife need to be taken to the next level, perhaps as consumer and pro versions.. I love Apple's own software, its intuitive ease of use and interoperability but there is much to be done. To name but one, iWEb into iWeb Pro (or WebPro) with kick ass HTML5 and something like Hype built in ... Then reabsorb Claris, sorry FileMaker, and make its product line into an affordable database element in iWorks with iCloud support built into all these products where appropriate.

I think that last point should be made louder. Apple should take back FileMaker into the fold and add database technology into iWorks / Works Pro X (select your own name).

Who's ultimately responsible for Apple's professional apps right now?  Where did that responsibility go when Sina Tamaddon left?

post #73 of 198
Quote:
Originally Posted by ankleskater View Post


Someone at Apple is ultimately responsible even if the problem is in China. Why is that so difficult for you to understand?

I will understand when someone, even a hothead like anant, shows me some causation.

Until then what I don't understand is why some people, who know absolutely nothing about any matter at all, whether it's some personnel thing or screen lamination in Taiwan, feel compelled to claim that Apple's going downhill fast in some area or other, or that Cook is incompetent, etc.
Edited by Flaneur - 3/20/13 at 7:52am
post #74 of 198
Quote:
Originally Posted by jungmark View Post


Jobs hired (and fired?) Pagemaster. Give the guy a chance. Since he will not be the leader of any group, he has to conform to Apple culture. He didn't have final say on anything.

 

 

Papermaster was hired and came to work at Apple when Cook was running things and Jobs was on medical leave.

post #75 of 198
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

Originally Posted by ankleskater View Post
I don't for a second believe this is deliberate, but it is sticking out like a sore thumb.

 

Not in the slightest.

Obviously it's subjective (and these appointments should be, by no means, at the sacrifice of quality), but I too think it sticks out like a sore thumb. Look at this, for example: http://www.google.com/about/company/facts/management/

 

It looks a lot more like America, and these guys are no slouches.

 

The talent is obviously there.

post #76 of 198
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogifan View Post

Doing that wouldn't get Apple any brownie points.  All people would say is its a token hire just for PR purposes.


It's not about getting brownie points or PR. It's about social responsibilities. When two candidates are equally qualified, hiring a woman or a minority does much to promote science and technology amongst youngsters. Minority hiring is hardly a rarity in technology circles. But Apple is one of the few prominent tech companies without one in their senior ranks, ever since the departure of Avie Tevanian. I don't recall a woman ever being in their inner circle. It is hard to fathom they couldn't find one good enough to promote or hire in all their history, when IBM, HP, Yahoo and Xerox all have women CEOs. I repeat, I don't think this is intentional exclusion. But it shows this is an area where they can be more socially aware.

post #77 of 198
Quote:
Originally Posted by ascii View Post

And once you do that it necessarily changes the way you have to hire. You can no longer simply look at the products someone has produced (such as the Dixon's Stores or the Flash Player), you have to look at abstract resume bullet points and see whether they match the abstract role you are hiring for now. You have set yourself up for more of a lottery in the hiring process.

I like this structure better though because instead of someone protecting their product line (to the possible detriment of other product lines, see: Sinofsky and Windows) everything you do is for the betterment of the company overall. 

post #78 of 198
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

 

NO.

 

Not in the slightest.

 

With all due respect, how do you think women feel when they look at Apple as a place of employment? How many will not notice the glass ceiling? To say this is not in the slightest obvious is just misguided.

post #79 of 198
Quote:
Originally Posted by digitalclips View Post


My thoughts exactly. With his background (absent Flash involvement) I'd hope he is going to kick Apple's software division in the next decade. iWorks and iLife need to be taken to the next level, perhaps as consumer and pro versions.. I love Apple's own software, its intuitive ease of use and interoperability but there is much to be done. To name but one, iWEb into iWeb Pro (or WebPro) with kick ass HTML5 and something like Hype built in ... Then reabsorb Claris, sorry FileMaker, and make its product line into an affordable database element in iWorks with iCloud support built into all these products where appropriate.

I think that last point should be made louder. Apple should take back FileMaker into the fold and add database technology into iWorks / Works Pro X (select your own name).

So far this post makes the most sense......

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"The future is Apple, Google, and a third company that hasn't yet been created."


 


 

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"Eventually Google will have their Afghanistan with Oracle and collapse"

"The future is Apple, Google, and a third company that hasn't yet been created."


 


 

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post #80 of 198
Dude,go to Nike.com and see what all the fuss is about. Flash all over the place so you are lucky you can even maneuver through that junk.
Put it this way, iPhone and iPad is the core business of Apple and neither have flash.
Cough!Cough!
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