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Creative Suite subscriptions pay off as Adobe raises profit forecast

post #1 of 35
Thread Starter 
Adobe's move toward a subscription-based model appears to be paying off, as the Photoshop and Acrobat maker has raised its full-year adjusted earnings forecast, reporting first-quarter results that surpassed Wall Street estimates.

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Adobe's Creative Cloud, which launched last year with Creative Suite 6, allows members to subscribe to Creative Suite applications such as Photoshop, Illustrator, and Dreamweaver. Subscribers can access the content they create across a variety of devices, including iPhones and iPads. Adobe says its Creative Cloud subscriber tally now exceeds 500,000 paid individual members, with more than two million free and trial memberships.

In the first quarter, according to Reuters, Adobe added 153,000 net paid subscriptions. By the end of the year, Adobe expects to hit 1.25 million paid subscriptions.

Adobe's subscription revenue has more than doubled to $224.3 million. The move to subscriptions results in lower short-term revenue, since fees are collected on a monthly basis instead of in an upfront one-time payment.

Off the success of Creative Cloud, Adobe raised its full-year adjusted earnings forecast to $1.45 per share, up from $1.40 per share. Analysts had predicted about $1.41 per share. Adobe now forecasts full-year revenue of about $4.1 billion.

The positive financial news came on the same day that Adobe confirmed CTO Kevin Lynch's departure. Lynch will be moving to Apple, a company Lynch has previously clashed with over its refusal to include support for Adobe's Flash standard on the popular iOS platform, a stance that led to the virtual extinction of Flash on modern mobile platforms. Lynch will be joining Apple as a vice president of technology, reporting to senior vice president Bob Mansfield.
post #2 of 35
It's interesting. As much as Lynch deserves to be panned for Flash, you can't ignore this success.
post #3 of 35
No kidding. It's well worth the price. My studio has upgraded every iteration, and even with volume discounts the cloud is much cheaper - also in the long run. And it's easier to manage.
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post #4 of 35

It's still only cheaper if you, as a company, are used to upgrading with évery new version. Most companies don't work like that (sometimes unfortunately)… a lot of companies upgrade every other version, and for those companies a subscription of 40-50-60 bucks a month is simply not paying itself back. And most companies also simply don't nééd the latest and greatest.

 

Plus, what if Adobe at one point in the future decides to discontinue a piece of software? You'll lose all hopes of ever running that piece of software on your computer. If you bought the piece of software you can run it as long as you want to (provided you keep a computer around that can run the software). :)

post #5 of 35
You think $50. a month is cheaper? It's very good for corporate clients, but not at all good for artists or freelancers who may not have consistent money flow. Actually this whole cloud thing, and the exorbitant pricing on upgrades, really has me very grumpy about Adobe. It's like they've joined Avid in the realm of gougers.
post #6 of 35
Quote:
Originally Posted by vincentagniello View Post

You think $50. a month is cheaper? It's very good for corporate clients, but not at all good for artists or freelancers who may not have consistent money flow. Actually this whole cloud thing, and the exorbitant pricing on upgrades, really has me very grumpy about Adobe. It's like they've joined Avid in the realm of gougers.

It seems to me this is excellent for those that don't a consistent money flow. You don't have to invest $600 up front. You can do just $50 per month, or if you're a student just $30 per month. That's not even a night of drinking per month for a college student.

On top of that they they also have the one-month option for $75 (not sure if there is a education version of that). If you have one job you can easily fold that $75 into your fee but trying to fold $600 into your fee or hoping your get more work down the road before you need to update again is much more risky.

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post #7 of 35
Adobe's "new" features are ever more questionable. Most upgrading I did with adobe products is due to their horrid compliance with platform standards that more or less required an upgrade for things that should have been part of a maintenance release.
Their shitty software to this day isn't fully OS X compatible, not fully 64-bit capable, not Cocoa based, using non-standard UI, etc.

Subscription based software allows them to consistently make money with even less care for the quality of their products.

To hire anyone who's responsible for the long term lack of code quality of Macromedia and Adobe products is as huge a mistake for Apple as firing Forstall was a big positive move.

Unless this dude tried to improve things at Adobe and was blocked by internal resistance and is happy to leave that crappy company, hiring him is a massive mistake.

The last thing Apple needs is a guy who didn't do squat about the horrid code quality of Adobe/Macromedia products, and who might be co-responsible to sink the only good technical documentation software (FrameMaker) on the Mac, even though there was an excellent NeXTstep port that could have been used as a starting point for an OS X port many, many years ago.
post #8 of 35
I prefer to pay more upfront and only buy a product once. I designed a site using Muse, but haven't updated it because it seems silly to pay $15 every time I need to change something small, so Adobe is forcing me to switch to Wordpress, so long.
post #9 of 35
Quote:
Originally Posted by vincentagniello View Post

You think $50. a month is cheaper? It's very good for corporate clients, but not at all good for artists or freelancers who may not have consistent money flow.

Everybody needs a consistent money flow (like Adobe) otherwise you can't pay for food, rent, car, utilities etc. People are happy to pay $50/month for a cable subscription that (ignoring internet access) has no hope of earning you money. Paying $50/month for something you most likely should be making money from is more like a commission. You might get an $800 job one month and not the next but it's still a pretty fair amount to pay. They will have room to adjust pricing once they get enough people on board - perhaps they can have an Elements model for home use. When you divide it out, it's less than $2 a day, which you can easily drop into a vending machine or parking meter. You might not feel it's worth that but some people feel that way about their computer too and wouldn't spend $1500 to get 3 years use out of a laptop. If it's not worth the investment, there are alternatives. Final Cut, Motion, Pixelmator, inkscape, Coda etc will replace much of the functionality but they won't all work together quite so well. Companies offer options that support their business model and it seems to be working for Adobe.
Quote:
Originally Posted by blowbot 
I designed a site using Muse, but haven't updated it because it seems silly to pay $15 every time I need to change something small, so Adobe is forcing me to switch to Wordpress, so long.

How much did you pay for the standalone version of Muse?
post #10 of 35
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post

Adobe's move toward a subscription-based model appears to be paying off

 

Adobe: "How can we get people to pay us for software even if they don't upgrade?  YES!  Subscriptions!" 

 

 

 

Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post

Lynch will be moving to Apple, a company Lynch has previously clashed with over its refusal to include support for Adobe's Flash standard on the popular iOS platform, a stance that led to the virtual extinction of Flash on modern mobile platforms.
 

I've worked with Kevin Lynch, and he's a very, very smart guy.  Years ago, he worked on the Mac version of FrameMaker.  Long before Adobe acquired Frame Technology.  So he's always been a Mac advocate.  I'm sure he'll become an iOS advocate soon, if he isn't already.

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post #11 of 35
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Originally Posted by flabber View Post

Plus, what if Adobe at one point in the future decides to discontinue a piece of software? You'll lose all hopes of ever running that piece of software on your computer. If you bought the piece of software you can run it as long as you want to (provided you keep a computer around that can run the software). :)

That's a good point which I had not considered although I could see Adobe just eliminating the subscription without killing the software on your computer. That would be the right thing to do. Fortunately we only use the hardcore applications that have been around for years and are not likely going away anytime soon.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

It seems to me this is excellent for those that don't a consistent money flow. You don't have to invest $600 up front. You can do just $50 per month, or if you're a student just $30 per month. That's not even a night of drinking per month for a college student.

On top of that they they also have the one-month option for $75 (not sure if there is a education version of that). If you have one job you can easily fold that $75 into your fee but trying to fold $600 into your fee or hoping your get more work down the road before you need to update again is much more risky.

The $600 dollar figure is not the price for the Master Suite upgrade. That would be $525, but if you have an older product or lower value suite the price shoots up significantly to over $1000 to upgrade to Master Collection edition. Design Standard is only $275. The $50 a month is for the complete Master Suite regardless of previous ownership.

 

I got in on the $29 per month which was the initial offer for existing customers. Definitely worth it. 

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post #12 of 35

I got in on that early price too, but quickly cancelled because 1) the software did not work on my 2008 Mac Book Pro (the computer I use for my graphic work)  and when calling to get it fixed with tech support I encountered 2) horrid horrid horrid, waste-of-a-whole-day-with-no-solution tech support.

 

All I use is AfterEffects, Photoshop and Illustrator.  I own earlier versions of several other programs which I use only peripherally.  I don't like the idea that if I go for more than a month without paying work (and if you are an artist, sometimes that does happen, I'm going on month 10 right now unfortunately) you have to keep paying to just use the software.  Mentioning that it's the amount spent on internet or parking means nothing to me, because I'm not going to be able to give those up in exchange for using my software.  Likewise, I'm not going to give up paying for food or my rent.  It's just an additional cost which I think is too high.

 

It just makes much more sense to purchase software once at a REASONABLE price (reminder:  Logic Pro, an incredibly deep and sophisticated piece of professional software) costs 250. That's 100. less than what Adobe charged me to upgrade AfterEffects, a program that I have owned and upgraded for 15 years!)

 

It wouldn't really bug me if the purchase price of their software (as well as upgrade prices) wasn't so insanely inflated, in fact, I think those prices are as high as they are to make the cloud upgrade seem a more attractive solution (at which point they've got you!)  

post #13 of 35
Quote:
Originally Posted by SockRolid View Post

 

Adobe: "How can we get people to pay us for software even if they don't upgrade?  YES!  Subscriptions!" 

 

 

 

I've worked with Kevin Lynch, and he's a very, very smart guy.  Years ago, he worked on the Mac version of FrameMaker.  Long before Adobe acquired Frame Technology.  So he's always been a Mac advocate.  I'm sure he'll become an iOS advocate soon, if he isn't already.

So I take it then, that you think he's a good hire for Apple?

post #14 of 35
Quote:
Originally Posted by vincentagniello View Post

All I use is AfterEffects, Photoshop and Illustrator.  I own earlier versions of several other programs which I use only peripherally.  I don't like the idea that if I go for more than a month without paying work (and if you are an artist, sometimes that does happen, I'm going on month 10 right now unfortunately) you have to keep paying to just use the software.  

I'm not sure why you are having trouble running CS6 on 2008 MBP. I was running CS5 on my MBP 2007 just fine. You can subscribe on a month to month basis for any of the apps you mentioned for $29 each. That means if you don't have a paying job one month you don't have to pay for the subscription, although you can't use the app either.

 

What OS X are you running? I was running Lion on my old MBP and had no issues with CS5. Now I have a new rMBP running CS6 problem free as well.

 

I'm sorry to hear you are not finding work. If you lived near LA or NYC you would definitely have steady work with skills in those three apps.

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post #15 of 35
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Originally Posted by mstone View Post

That's a good point which I had not considered although I could see Adobe just eliminating the subscription without killing the software on your computer. That would be the right thing to do. Fortunately we only use the hardcore applications that have been around for years and are not likely going away anytime soon.

 

Remember, even big companies wither and close up, or get sold, or otherwise EOL useful software, and the IT can be sold to a patent troll or IP holding company who merely wants to milk it and not support it. Remember the days when WordPerfect was *the business standard*?  It's not even a hypothetical for me. Consider the draw/paint application CANVAS for Mac, of the long-gone Deneba Systems.  Now owned by ACD Systems, they've killed off the Mac version completely, after a couple of "updates" that gave buggy utility to OS X through SnowLeopard.  This is why I keep an older Mac around, running System 9 and Jaguar--it can run the older version of Canvas flawlessly.  Thankfully the old Mac hardware is still working, after all these years.  Some day it will fail, then I'll have to abandon Canvas totally, I guess.  So sad that ACD Systems won't sell this IP to someone who has the talent to bring it into the 21st Century.  A sad ending to a star, born on the Mac a long time ago.

post #16 of 35
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone View Post

You can subscribe on a month to month basis for any of the apps you mentioned for $29 each.

That price is slated to change by quite a bit next year. $50/mo after the first 12/mo
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post #17 of 35
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone View Post

I'm not sure why you are having trouble running CS6 on 2008 MBP. I was running CS5 on my MBP 2007 just fine. You can subscribe on a month to month basis for any of the apps you mentioned for $29 each. That means if you don't have a paying job one month you don't have to pay for the subscription, although you can't use the app either.

 

What OS X are you running? I was running Lion on my old MBP and had no issues with CS5. Now I have a new rMBP running CS6 problem free as well.

 

I'm sorry to hear you are not finding work. If you lived near LA or NYC you would definitely have steady work with skills in those three apps.

I'm not sure why either, except AfterEffects was just crashing constantly. A call to tech support and investment of about an hour and a half waiting and the technician says that the app requires a minimum of 16gb of memory.  I had only 4gb in that computer and that was the Mac-supported limit.  

 

I'm actually working quite hard on my own art.  Hopefully when it's finished and released I'll see a lot more money coming in.  I'd been working doing corporate stuff for too long (I do live relatively close to NYC) and decided to follow Steve Jobs advice and cut away the stuff that made me miserable.  The subscription service just doesn't fit into my lifestyle anymore.

post #18 of 35
Quote:
Originally Posted by vincentagniello View Post

I'm not sure why either, except AfterEffects was just crashing constantly. A call to tech support and investment of about an hour and a half waiting and the technician says that the app requires a minimum of 16gb of memory.  I had only 4gb in that computer and that was the Mac-supported limit.  

 

I'm actually working quite hard on my own art.  Hopefully when it's finished and released I'll see a lot more money coming in.  I'd been working doing corporate stuff for too long (I do live relatively close to NYC) and decided to follow Steve Jobs advice and cut away the stuff that made me miserable.  The subscription service just doesn't fit into my lifestyle anymore.

Officially AE requires 4GB (8GB recommended). I never used AE on my MBP, primarily only inDesign, Photoshop and Illustrator which all worked fine. Whenever I had an AE or video project I was always on my Mac Pro.

 

Yeah, those corporate jobs can be annoying especially when you have to work with marketing people who do not have any experience in the graphic design/production process. Good luck on your art projects.

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post #19 of 35
Quote:
Originally Posted by TeaEarleGreyHot View Post

Thankfully the old Mac hardware is still working, after all these years.  Some day it will fail, then I'll have to abandon Canvas totally, I guess.  So sad that ACD Systems won't sell this IP to someone who has the talent to bring it into the 21st Century.  A sad ending to a star, born on the Mac a long time ago.

Too bad about Canvas. I never used it. Perhaps Corel Painter would be a reasonable replacement. It gets decent reviews as a better paint and drawing app verses Photoshop which more focused on photo composites where as Painter is more about artistic brushes and paint/paper effects.

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post #20 of 35
Quote:
Originally Posted by vincentagniello View Post

You think $50 a month is cheaper? It's very good for corporate clients, but not at all good for artists or freelancers who may not have consistent money flow. Actually this whole cloud thing, and the exorbitant pricing on upgrades, really has me very grumpy about Adobe. It's like they've joined Avid in the realm of gougers.

Who is using the whole Adobe CS6 suite of professional products... but can't somehow make $50 a month?

If you're just fooling around on your computer... maybe CS6 isn't the right product for you. Adobe Elements might be more your speed. But if you're doing any kind of serious work... you should be able to afford that.

I'm exactly the type of person you describe... a freelancer with a sometimes inconsistent money flow. BUT... I still make way more than enough to cover my Adobe subscription.

I do graphics and web design... and video and DVD production. Photoshop, Premiere Pro, Encore and Dreamweaver are my most-used programs. I was raised on Adobe products... there is no alternative for me.

I could spend thousands of dollars on one version of a software package... plus another $500 every couple years for upgrades. But I'd rather give Adobe $50 a month... and save money for new cameras and equipment. 1biggrin.gif

The argument against software subscriptions is that you'll be paying for the rest of your life. But if I'm gonna be using their products anyway... why not go monthly?

EDIT... I see you're an artist... so I understand your dilemma about making money.

But the Adobe subscription is still a wonderful thing for those who can take advantage of it. Best of luck! 1smile.gif
post #21 of 35

Thanks to this new program, I'm paying MORE THAN EVER for Photoshop (and Flash etc.)... and in moving from CS3 to CS6 I have gained exactly ONE new feature that is occasionally useful to me (masks on layer groups). I may well discover more. Meanwhile, some of my "favorite" CS3 bugs are still NOT fixed, and NEW bugs--including some showstoppers with the Text tool--have been introduced! These new bugs have been reported by multiple people a year ago (I checked) but are still unfixed. Meanwhile Adobe loads up my system with all kinds of anti-piracy services and non-optional updater processes.

 

And yet we keep buying from Adobe because we work with other people who use their products, and 100% compatibility is needed.

 

It's a monopoly of the worst kind: they keep charging more and more, while delivering WORSE and WORSE products, full of bugs and inconsistent interface quirks. Adobe used to be great. Now they just need to go under. Make way for something better.

 

Yes, I can afford the subscription, and I do. But it's more than I used to pay buying every-other or every-third version. And considering that Adobe adds so little and breaks so much, who the heck would want to have every single version anyway?

 

And if I ever shut down my business, I'll no longer even be able to view my old files without paying thousands?

 

With that kind of gouging, Adobe better deliver excellence. They don't. Even the basic rectangular marquee tool doesn't work anymore! After you let up on the mouse button, the selection size changes unless you are zoomed in! This is basic stuff.

post #22 of 35
I could do 99% of what I need in photoshop 4 if I had to.
post #23 of 35
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post


It seems to me this is excellent for those that don't a consistent money flow. You don't have to invest $600 up front. You can do just $50 per month, or if you're a student just $30 per month. That's not even a night of drinking per month for a college student.

On top of that they they also have the one-month option for $75 (not sure if there is a education version of that). If you have one job you can easily fold that $75 into your fee but trying to fold $600 into your fee or hoping your get more work down the road before you need to update again is much more risky.

While that would be nice, it doesn't quite work that way. Most of their stated monthly rates are for a year paid in advance, even though they break it down to something referred to as monthly. It is also possible to just pay for a month, but the per month rate is higher. The long term costs are potentially higher if you use this for a number of years, but it can be worth it if you don't initially buy in as a student. For example the Master Collection is $2600. Right now CS6 is basically mid cycle. CS7 or whatever would then be an upgrade whenever it arrives. They list it at $50/month based on an annual subscription, so in that case your upfront cost is $600. If the package is updated within that time, you can use the latest version as there are no upgrades with this pricing model. Prior to this it was sometimes possible to wait out bad versions of single applications or creative suite in general, but this didn't mean you could always do so if you stuck with the latest version of OSX. Adobe doesn't tend to go back and validate a ton of older versions of OSX with the newest software, but that happens with a lot of others as well. Some of the student packages are cheaper, so for students it may be worth using the student discount, as those are still eligible for upgrade pricing, which might work out well if the upgrades are $300-400 rather than $600, especially if you initially buy early in a product cycle or late enough that they float you to the next version. Blah I hope I covered everything.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by SockRolid View Post

 

Adobe: "How can we get people to pay us for software even if they don't upgrade?  YES!  Subscriptions!" 

 

 

This is another of your misleading statements. The upgrade policies are still in place. In some areas they did become worse. For example you can only upgrade from the prior version rather than 3 versions back with single applications. With a given version of Creative Suite, upgrade pricing was staggered based on what version you already owned. In terms of subscriptions, you don't buy the initial package if you need more seats today. It's just the subscription rate. Some other companies do similar things. Autodesk and the Foundry use initial pricing + annual maintenance if you want support and the latest versions.

post #24 of 35
Quote:
Originally Posted by hmm View Post

While that would be nice, it doesn't quite work that way. Most of their stated monthly rates are for a year paid in advance, even though they break it down to something referred to as monthly.

Thanks. I had assumed that a listing of x-amount per month for a year was to be paid monthly.

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post #25 of 35

I signed up for creative cloud when it has the $30 promotion. $30 a month for a year is a bargain! It is true I do not use more than photoshop, indesign and illustrator on a daily basis and to have unlimited access to all other tools within the suite opens up other creative possibilities. I might rethink it when the price goes back up to $50/month, for now, I'm actually happy with this subscription service model.

 

I also used to argue that there is no difference in using CS3 vs CS6 but that is wrong. If you actually know the programs well and use it efficiently you will notice there is a BIG difference. As long as they keep the monthly price affordable, I can see Adobe gaining more subscriptions.

post #26 of 35
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by hmm View Post

While that would be nice, it doesn't quite work that way. Most of their stated monthly rates are for a year paid in advance, even though they break it down to something referred to as monthly.

Thanks. I had assumed that a listing of x-amount per month for a year was to be paid monthly.

He is wrong. It is not paid in advance. They charge your CC monthly, although I am not sure what happens if you default on the monthly payments while on the yearly contract.

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post #27 of 35
Quote:
Originally Posted by hmm View Post

While that would be nice, it doesn't quite work that way. Most of their stated monthly rates are for a year paid in advance, even though they break it down to something referred to as monthly. It is also possible to just pay for a month, but the per month rate is higher. The long term costs are potentially higher if you use this for a number of years, but it can be worth it if you don't initially buy in as a student. For example the Master Collection is $2600. Right now CS6 is basically mid cycle. CS7 or whatever would then be an upgrade whenever it arrives. They list it at $50/month based on an annual subscription, so in that case your upfront cost is $600. If the package is updated within that time, you can use the latest version as there are no upgrades with this pricing model. Prior to this it was sometimes possible to wait out bad versions of single applications or creative suite in general, but this didn't mean you could always do so if you stuck with the latest version of OSX. Adobe doesn't tend to go back and validate a ton of older versions of OSX with the newest software, but that happens with a lot of others as well. Some of the student packages are cheaper, so for students it may be worth using the student discount, as those are still eligible for upgrade pricing, which might work out well if the upgrades are $300-400 rather than $600, especially if you initially buy early in a product cycle or late enough that they float you to the next version. Blah I hope I covered everything.

Nope... the yearly contract is billed monthly.



When you sign up for the yearly contract... they draft the money out of your account every month... for 12 months.

Yes... it works out to $600 a year... but you do not have to fork over $600 upfront.


The other plan is month-to-month for $75 a month. You only pay for the month... no contract... cancel after that month if you want to.
post #28 of 35
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post


Thanks. I had assumed that a listing of x-amount per month for a year was to be paid monthly.

 

Okay  I have been corrected, but  I read the thing as soon as they announced Creative Cloud and the rest of it. I must have misread misread on the annual plan, but you can see the rate differences here. Being billed monthly does further lower the barrier to entry further. The master collection is $2500 in the US and higher in some countries. Some of the other packages are significantly cheaper, but I could definitely see the appeal in monthly billing.
post #29 of 35
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone View Post

Too bad about Canvas. I never used it. Perhaps Corel Painter would be a reasonable replacement. It gets decent reviews as a better paint and drawing app verses Photoshop which more focused on photo composites where as Painter is more about artistic brushes and paint/paper effects.

 

I don't know what Paint is like now, I haven't used it in years, but I remember the Phoenix-rising massive epiphany day around 1999 or so when I walked across the building from my CorelDRAW and Paint machine to the new one running Photoshop and Illustrator. Both did the same thing, but the QUALITY of the results was SOOOOO much better with the Adobe products. I've never looked back.

post #30 of 35
Quote:
Originally Posted by v5v View Post

I don't know what Paint is like now, I haven't used it in years, but I remember the Phoenix-rising massive epiphany day around 1999 or so when I walked across the building from my CorelDRAW and Paint machine to the new one running Photoshop and Illustrator. Both did the same thing, but the QUALITY of the results was SOOOOO much better with the Adobe products. I've never looked back.

14 years and 8 versions ago there was a massive difference in features and quality.
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post #31 of 35
Quote:
Originally Posted by flabber View Post

It's still only cheaper if you, as a company, are used to upgrading with évery new version.

 

I don't have the numbers handy anymore, but I think it still works out okay even if you only update every second version. That's what I was doing, and somehow I came to the conclusion that the subscription fee versus the purchase price worked out to a comparison I could accept. That's for the Full Meal Deal though. If you're using, say, Design Standard and don't want or need every single app Adobe offers, it may not be as attractive.

 

In my particular circumstances the only way to get all the apps I want is to buy the whole schmear. With the subscription I now just budget a monthly amount and always have the latest version without having to worry about shelling out a big chunk of change whenever the next version comes out.

post #32 of 35
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gatorguy View Post


14 years and 8 versions ago there was a massive difference in features and quality.

 

Like I said, I don't know what the Corel product is like now since I no longer use it. Is Paint now comparable to Photoshop in terms of quality? My daughter is forced to use Draw! to drive signage and engraving equipment, and according to her, it's still as bad as it was way back then -- its inability to correctly interpret Postscript and files created with any other app is legendary, and the seemingly arbitrary rounding of numerical values seems to still exist -- but I don't know anyone who still uses Paint so I haven't heard anything about it.

post #33 of 35
Quote:
Originally Posted by v5v View Post

Like I said, I don't know what the Corel product is like now since I no longer use it. Is Paint now comparable to Photoshop in terms of quality? My daughter is forced to use Draw! to drive signage and engraving equipment, and according to her, it's still as bad as it was way back then -- its inability to correctly interpret Postscript and files created with any other app is legendary, and the seemingly arbitrary rounding of numerical values seems to still exist -- but I don't know anyone who still uses Paint so I haven't heard anything about it.

Your daughter may be using an older Corel version. Our shop has had a different experience with it than she has.

If she's in the sign/engraving business then she's primarily using the vector rather than raster features of Corel in all likelihood. The import options are more extensive than the comparable Illustrator offers, not less and we've had no greater issues with importing common files with CorelDraw than doing so with Illustrator.

Regarding CorelPainter, it offers some features that Photoshop does not and vice-versa. Most commercial users will nearly always prefer Photoshop given those two as choices IMO. I know I do. Artists tho might find CorelPainter a better match.
Edited by Gatorguy - 3/21/13 at 9:02am
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post #34 of 35
Quote:
Originally Posted by Techboy View Post

$30 a month for a year is a bargain! It is true I do not use more than photoshop, indesign and illustrator on a daily basis and to have unlimited access to all other tools within the suite opens up other creative possibilities. I might rethink it when the price goes back up to $50/month, for now, I'm actually happy with this subscription service model.

I think they should have 3 or 4 levels: $5-10/m for an Elements bundle, which can be sold along with computers, stick with $30/m for individual users for the full suite or $10/m per app and they can have $50/m+ for business use (any form of company other than sole traders as they can claim taxes back on it).
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Originally Posted by Techboy View Post

I also used to argue that there is no difference in using CS3 vs CS6 but that is wrong. If you actually know the programs well and use it efficiently you will notice there is a BIG difference. As long as they keep the monthly price affordable, I can see Adobe gaining more subscriptions.

It's also the interoperability. If one company upgrades and you have to deal with their files and you have an older version, they'd have to send downgraded files. That heavily goes against the pay upfront model because you might own After Effects 5 and think it's a great deal to use it for 5 years but you just have to need to open an AE 6 file and you're screwed because you have no choice but to immediately pay for an upgrade or full license when you aren't expecting it. A subscription is much more predictable because you know exactly what you pay and when and you can always be up to date.

The argument about Adobe going out of business is entirely valid but where there's a need, someone will fill it. Apple did this with Final Cut. You can't open any project from the old software. With their standalone model, you could still open things but you could similarly import the files into other programs. It's a concern but I wouldn't say it's a big one when Adobe's concerned.
post #35 of 35
Quote:
Originally Posted by v5v View Post

 

Like I said, I don't know what the Corel product is like now since I no longer use it. Is Paint now comparable to Photoshop in terms of quality? My daughter is forced to use Draw! to drive signage and engraving equipment, and according to her, it's still as bad as it was way back then -- its inability to correctly interpret Postscript and files created with any other app is legendary, and the seemingly arbitrary rounding of numerical values seems to still exist -- but I don't know anyone who still uses Paint so I haven't heard anything about it.

Painter has really nice brushes, although Adobe improved theirs quite a bit with CS6. I don't know if it can open EPS files though.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Marvin View Post



It's also the interoperability. If one company upgrades and you have to deal with their files and you have an older version, they'd have to send downgraded files. That heavily goes against the pay upfront model because you might own After Effects 5 and think it's a great deal to use it for 5 years but you just have to need to open an AE 6 file and you're screwed because you have no choice but to immediately pay for an upgrade or full license when you aren't expecting it. A subscription is much more predictable because you know exactly what you pay and when and you can always be up to date.

The argument about Adobe going out of business is entirely valid but where there's a need, someone will fill it. Apple did this with Final Cut. You can't open any project from the old software. With their standalone model, you could still open things but you could similarly import the files into other programs. It's a concern but I wouldn't say it's a big one when Adobe's concerned.

 

They weren't always problematic version to version. I used to skip bad versions when it was possible. There is always an initial period of bug fixes. If most things work as they should beyond that point, I would typically upgrade. Sometimes I had to maintain a version or so back in case others had not upgraded and I needed to test if something would open as intended. With some things bits of files are incompatible or need to be adjusted once it's opened, but the file will still open. What Apple did wasn't very good. A better bridge would have been some kind of layers to files method allowing things to be reassembled with a little work in later software, although I'm admittedly not that well versed with final cut. They didn't seem to provide much of a transition path as far as I can tell.

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