Rumor: Apple to launch cheaper iPhone with plastic casing, non-Retina display this summer - Page 3

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rogifan 

Ok if all this is true why has it taken 6 years for Apple to figure it out?  How does this not look like anything more than reactionary?  Or Apple totally underestimating Android?  I dunno I still have a feeling Apple will do something we're not expecting.  Look what they did with the iPad mini.  The build quality is not cheap (in fact some say its one of Apple's best designs ever) and its not $199.

Rogifan: You are right...it has probably taken Apple more time than it should to figure all this out. Maybe they did not anticipate how quickly cheap Android phones would flood the market? I don't know. But I do know that Apple has a Wonderful reputation around the world and is seen as a "status symbol" product in many cultures. While there are many countries that have growing middle classes, a $600 phone is still out of reach to most of these poeple. An entry level phone ($300 or less) in these markets would allow millions of new consumers to get aclimated into the Apple ecosystem at a pricepoint that is easier on their finances and still allow Apple to make money. Apple does not have to sell these models anywhere else in the world! Just India and China alone have nearly 3 billion consumers and is Apple could make even a small dent in that number, it would means billions of $'s in new revenue!

Quote:

Originally Posted by jungmark 

And it hasn't hurt them much.

Perhaps not in the short-term. But this could be dangerous thinking. It's not just about the phones. It's also about the platform (iOS, apps, content, etc.)

Non-retina? Bullshit. 

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Originally Posted by OllieWallieWhiskers


they already are getting killed in the low-end.

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Originally Posted by jungmark 


And it hasn't hurt them much.

jungmark....I think Apple shareholders woud disagree with you!

In business you always have to think ahead...I'll bet the company that made the finest horsedrawn buggy in the world probably thought the same as you before Henry Ford started cranking out affordable autos in the early 1900's!

Quote:

Originally Posted by jungmark 

If you're talking about platform, you obviously need to include the iPad and touch.

Agreed. But the phone is a huge part of the platform. Don't ignore that.

Quote:

Originally Posted by jungmark 

Apple should not be in the race to the bottom.

Who said they are? And who cares if they are? This whole "race to the bottom" thing seems to be code language for "I don't think X should sell more affordable products for more people." But this is what the market does...it moves products that were original only available for the wealthy and, ultimately, makes them commonplace for everyone, often including the poor. Companies ignore this reality at their potential peril.

Quote:

Originally Posted by jungmark 

As said before, a rejiggered 4 will be the low cost version. No need for a "new" one.

Maybe. What difference does it make if it is a new phone or not?

Originally Posted by jungmark 
If that's the case, should Apple also make a sub-500 Mac? These same analysts also said Apple needed a Netbook.

I'd love if the Mac Mini was $499 again. Kick up that marketshare.

Quote:

Originally Posted by jungmark 

If that's the case, should Apple also make a sub-500 Mac?

This feels a bit like an apples/oranges comparison (if you'll pardon the pun). To some degree Apple, with the stuff like iPad and iPhone was skating where the puck was going. Desktop PCs are likely dead. Mobile, wireless, jacked into the cloud ALL the time is where things are going. Fewer and fewer people are buying desktops...they are moving toward laptops, tables, phones, etc. If the case inverse, Apple might well be looking harder at trying to create more affordable desktops. But, I suspect, they're not wasting time and other resources (including attention) on a dying market segment.

Originally Posted by MJ1970 
But, I suspect, they're not wasting time and other resources (including attention) on a dying market segment.

On the contrary. They're 'dying' now, but once laptops have been replaced by tablets the desktop will see a resurgence. Since tablets will never be able to match desktop/laptop power, there will always be some form of (semi)stationary counterpart to the mobile "revolution". 

Quote:

Originally Posted by jungmark 


Well shareholders are different. If they don't understand the iPhone was both the #1 and#2 models sold in the world, along with record sales, then they should get out.

If that's the case, should Apple also make a sub-500 Mac? These same analysts also said Apple needed a Netbook.

I am a shareholder and I do understand the iPhone was tops....but the point is that the market looks long term and sees Android comming up fast! Trust me, if shareholders like myself were to abondon Apple now, the stock would fall to $300 in no time flat! I am staying long in AAPL because I know it is a quality company with innovative products and a loyal consumer base....I believe the stock will rebound eventually and go back up to where it was 6-8 months ago!

My point is you're kidding yourself if you don't think that lower cost phones in the emerging markets aren't a threat! NO ONE is suggesting that Apple sell a "entry level" phone in established markets like the U.S., Japan or Europe.... only in emerging markets like India/China where the majority of consumers can't afford a $450-$650 phone.

Actually your point about the Mac makes my case..you can buy a Mac Mini on Amazon right now for $549!! I'm thinking of getting one myself..my 10 year old iMac G4 is still really cool, but not as fast or nimble as it once was! The Mac Mini does pretty much everything the $1,300 iMac does...AT LESS THAN HALF THE PRICE!!!! Just hook up an old monitor and keyboard and BAM...you are good to go!

I agree with most here that Apple is a PREMIUM manufacturer....like Mercedes Benz or BMW...but even Mercedes and BMW have entry level models they sell in other parts of the world!! No one wants to tarnish Apple's image....but we also can't ignore the huge emerging markets either!

Quote:

Originally Posted by jungmark 


Well shareholders are different. If they don't understand the iPhone was both the #1 and#2 models sold in the world, along with record sales, then they should get out.
 

This is just wrong on so many levels. There are no qualification criteria for owning $AAPL shares, except you need to have the means to purchase the stock. If there were such criteria, you may well not make the cut. Just because you happen to know a few numbers here and there does not make you a better shareholder than a stock-shorting hedgefund scumbag or a basement-dwelling granny hoping to improve her retirement days. In fact, with your constant whining, you may well be one of the worst kinds of shareholders.

I forgive you for being an ignorant whiner because you can't change what you are. But I don't forgive you for your arrogant invective against those you presume to be superior to. Now shut the F up about what shareholders are supposed to know or entitled to have. You know shit.

Quote:

Originally Posted by jungmark 


1. who is ignoring the iPhone? You have to combine all three to compare platforms. The iPhone and iPad markets are growing.

2. Market share doesn't pay the bills. HP is #1/2 and was trying to exit the PC market. Dell just went private. Stockholders and analysts should be aware of this and should not succumb to the "Market Share equals winning" meme. The iPhone isn't just for the wealthy. Lots of working class people have them. Me, I'm still waiting for a sub $5000 GM car in new condition. Frak, a $10000 new BMW would look great in my driveway too.

3. Apparently analysts and Wall Street cares.

1. Yes but if the lose the phone market, that could be the end of the platform as a whole. I suggest the phone is the engine here.

2. Straw man. No one claimed that market share pays the bills." Beyond that you either ignored or misinterpreted that point.

3. Whatever.

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Originally Posted by ankleskater 

This is just wrong on so many levels. There are no qualification criteria for owning $AAPL shares, except you need to have the means to purchase the stock. If there were such criteria, you may well not make the cut. Just because you happen to know a few numbers here and there does not make you a better shareholder than a stock-shorting hedgefund scumbag or a basement-dwelling granny hoping to improve her retirement days. In fact, with your constant whining, you may well be one of the worst kinds of shareholders.

 

I forgive you for being an ignorant whiner because you can't change what you are. But I don't forgive you for your arrogant invective against those you presume to be superior to. Now shut the F up about what shareholders are supposed to know or entitled to have. You know shit.

Chill, dude. You can't change a ranter with your rant.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tallest Skil 

On the contrary. They're 'dying' now, but once laptops have been replaced by tablets the desktop will see a resurgence.

On what do you base this hypothesis? Gut feel? Wishful thinking?

Is your assumption that the extra power that will almost always be available in a desk-bound machine will matter to most consumers?

You'll note that I wasn't specifically claiming there would no desktop PCs, merely that this was not a growth market where mobile devices are. Mobile devices also happen to play to Apple's strengths more where things like fit, finish, tight engineering and tight software are critically important. Where with desktop PCs, slapping together a CPU, HD and some plastic can work.

In anything, I wouldn't be terribly surprised if Apple wanted to get out of the desktop PC market (if they could.) They are obviously starting to reach a bit on iMac updates. That's more or less a large laptop anyway. The Power Mac and Mac mini are getting very little love. I'm sure they're getting the amount of love that's warranted given their sales. Apple is transforming itself into an (intelligent and advanced) consumer electronics company. The Sony of the 21st century if you will.

iPads and iPhones are the new personal computers for most people.

Originally Posted by MJ1970 
On what do you base this hypothesis? Gut feel? Wishful thinking?

Little bit of both, mostly the former. The world won't run on iPads and tablets can only get so large. I'd love a 15" iPad myself, but it would have to be thin and only as heavy as the 1st gen. And I'm a fringe in that regard; future tablets will probably bell curve around 12" (8" on the low end, 15" on the high). Even then, tablets won't be able to replace desktop power and capability for a decade or more, and that's pretending that traditional desktop/laptop chips ALSO won't be advancing in the interim.

I see the tablet leading the way in creating a new UI/X paradigm in the same way that the Apple ][ and Macintosh did. I see tablets completely replacing laptops in all but a scant few fringe cases (think… a percentage about like Linux in a non-server setting today). And even with tablets taking on this new role, there will still be stationary computers in the home. (After all, thinking that everyone will buy everything from iTunes and be able to store everything they'd want in iCloud is nonsense, so an Apple TV of the future will still have to have a computer of some sort off of which to pull local music, video, and picture content. ) Does that not make sense? People aren't going to have the entirety of their needs satisfied by just little tablets. An iPad can control your home* once it's automated, but it can't manage it—particularly when it's out and about with you at all times. 

So as ever more people are born in a world that never knew anything before the iPad, the rest of computing will have to follow suit. I see the desktop of the future basically being a large iPad. Its screen will be able to transition between standing vertical and laying at a ~5º angle as seamlessly as the screen on the iMac G4 was adjusted. You'll interact with it down by your hands like the physical keyboard of today, but you'll also be able to consume content vertically (because having to look down to watch a trapezoidal movie is just plain stupid). 

As such, the traditional "display" will exist for a good long while. I see dual displays taking on a slightly larger role than they do now; it would be connected to your desktop (even in just plain mirroring mode) to review the work that you're doing with your hands. It would save scant seconds of moving the computer up and down, but I can certainly see wanting to remain in the "groove". But purchasing a "display" would apply to both what we know as one today and to the retina dual-mode touchscreens that will be required for future desktops. After all, not all computers in the future will be iMacs, as well as that form factor works for 75% of people.

Look at the iMac today. Look at it over time since the G5 transition. What did the newest model bring? An edge thickness thin enough to be a smooth transition from the top of your desk to the screen of your computer. Crack off the foot (don't actually) and set it on your desk. I'd wager it's a pretty comfortable setup even now, when it's not yet designed to be! 

Look at OS X. Why the heck do people THINK they're bringing iOS design (that's… UI design, as distinct from…) and interfacing into it? It's because an ever-growing number of people are not only using iOS devices as their first computer, but as their only computer. As the iPod "halo" brought people to early OS X (which, of course, couldn't operate the way an iPod could), the iPad "halo" will bring people to late OS X and OS XI, which will be designed with them in mind. 

There will always be desktop computers. The definition thereof will simply be redefined. Just as they were when the Apple ][ was released and just as it was shortly after with the Macintosh. There was a time when 'a computer with a display' was nonsense. Now the opposite is unheard of. There was a time when the mouse was a 'toy'. And there will be a time when having a cursor show up on your screen will be considered as archaic as blinkenlights today.

*I want to talk about what I see for home automation, too, but this is an iPhone thread and I'm already ludicrously off-topic. 

Quote:

Originally Posted by hill60 

 

Economies of scale.

 

Apple has already used 100's of millions of retina displays, it would probably cost them more to bring in a new, separate line of lower resolution screens.

 

Economics 101.

 

Not going to happen.

Economics 201

Diminishing Returns to Scale.

Example: Apple is operating at such a large scale that it can afford more diversification in the portfolio. There is currently considerably more variation in Mac models, despite far lower volumes. 

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Originally Posted by Rabbit_Coach 

Please! If you yourself have a eyesight disfunction, don't project this problem to the majority of all the other people.

I don't have the best eyesight myself, but as long as I wear my glasses, I see a substantial difference between retina and non retina.

Something that must be true even more so for younger people. And younger people are from my point of view definitely the majority. 

I submit that you're the one who is projecting your preferences on others. I'm not suggesting that retina displays should be done away with. I'm suggesting that a cheaper alternative should be offered for the large number of people who can't tell the difference. If I get my way, you'll still have a choice to buy retina products. If you get your way, I won't have a choice. I think that means you're the jerk. 

Quote:

Originally Posted by KDMeister 


You obviously haven't used a Retina display for any length of time. Try using one for a week then go back to your 3GS or iPad 2. Then you'll be able to "see" the difference. Once you've used Retina, everything else becomes pixelated.

No, I have. I had an iPhone 4 for two years and now I have an iPhone 5. I also have an iPad 3. 

Like I said -- it's utterly inconceivable to some people that everyone doesn't share their preferences, but that's the way it is. I think that's one reason why the iPad 2 is STILL BEING SOLD. 

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tallest Skil 

Little bit of both, mostly the former.

Fair enough.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tallest Skil 

The world won't run on iPads and tablets can only get so large. I'd love a 15" iPad myself, but it would have to be thin and only as heavy as the 1st gen. And I'm a fringe in that regard; future tablets will probably bell curve around 12" (8" on the low end, 15" on the high). Even then, tablets won't be able to replace desktop power and capability for a decade or more, and that's pretending that traditional desktop/laptop chips ALSO won't be advancing in the interim.

 

I see the tablet leading the way in creating a new UI/X paradigm in the same way that the Apple ][ and Macintosh did. I see tablets completely replacing laptops in all but a scant few fringe cases (think… a percentage about like Linux in a non-server setting today).

Agreed with most of that. But, it seems that the mobile platform is going to be good enough for most of the market.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tallest Skil 

And even with tablets taking on this new role, there will still be stationary computers in the home. (After all, thinking that everyone will buy everything from iTunes and be able to store everything they'd want in iCloud is nonsense, so an Apple TV of the future will still have to have a computer of some sort off of which to pull local music, video, and picture content. ) Does that not make sense?

It does make sense. Mostly. But isn't that just Apple TV (or something comparable)? I mean Apple TV is a computer already. Just not a general purpose one. I think it's hard to predict whether most consumers will accept the cloud-stored model or not. I actually suspect most will.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tallest Skil 

So as ever more people are born in a world that never knew anything before the iPad, the rest of computing will have to follow suit. I see the desktop of the future basically being a large iPad. Its screen will be able to transition between standing vertical and laying at a ~5º angle as seamlessly as the screen on the iMac G4 was adjusted. You'll interact with it down by your hands like the physical keyboard of today, but you'll also be able to consume content vertically (because having to look down to watch a trapezoidal movie is just plain stupid). 

 

As such, the traditional "display" will exist for a good long while. I see dual displays taking on a slightly larger role than they do now; it would be connected to your desktop (even in just plain mirroring mode) to review the work that you're doing with your hands. It would save scant seconds of moving the computer up and down, but I can certainly see wanting to remain in the "groove". But purchasing a "display" would apply to both what we know as one today and to the retina dual-mode touchscreens that will be required for future desktops. After all, not all computers in the future will be iMacs, as well as that form factor works for 75% of people.

 

Look at the iMac today. Look at it over time since the G5 transition. What did the newest model bring? An edge thickness thin enough to be a smooth transition from the top of your desk to the screen of your computer. Crack off the foot (don't actually) and set it on your desk. I'd wager it's a pretty comfortable setup even now, when it's not yet designed to be! 

 

Look at OS X. Why the heck do people THINK they're bringing iOS design (that's… UI design, as distinct from…) and interfacing into it? It's because an ever-growing number of people are not only using iOS devices as their first computer, but as their only computer. As the iPod "halo" brought people to early OS X (which, of course, couldn't operate the way an iPod could), the iPad "halo" will bring people to late OS X and OS XI, which will be designed with them in mind. 

I think some of what you suggest will become reality. I'm not entirely sure that the UIs are necessary going to unify as much. They are different devices. This is what Apple actually did well with iPhone and iPad. They recognized it was not just a mini/shrunk down desktop experience but something very different. Similarly, while some of the tablet and touch UI concepts will influence the desktop/laptop form factor, these will not be be larger tablets.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tallest Skil 

There will always be desktop computers.

Agreed. Just don't think it will ever become the growth market it once was.

Originally Posted by MJ1970 

I think some of what you suggest will become reality. I'm not entirely sure that the UIs are necessary going to unify as much. They are different devices. This is what Apple actually did well with iPhone and iPad. They recognized it was not just a mini/shrunk down desktop experience but something very different. Similarly, while some of the tablet and touch UI concepts will influence the desktop/laptop form factor, these will not be be larger tablets.

Oh, no, yeah. I meant to state that outright: the UI (and to an extent, UX) as well as capabilities of the iPad and future desktop computers won't ever be 1:1, nor should they be. There are some things that will always be better as a mobile device than a stationary one, and there are some things that will always be infeasible on a small screen that are obvious on a large one.

Hmmm...  Apple starts to copy Samsung with plastic case?  Not good.  I hope they'll pick a different name for the plastic phone other than iphone.  

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Originally Posted by ipen 

Hmmm...  Apple starts to copy Samsung with plastic case?

  This Samsung/Apple rivarly BS needs to end. It's not like no one has ever used plastic in their electronic devices before (including Apple!)

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Originally Posted by ipen 

Not good.

Why?

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Originally Posted by ipen 

I hope they'll pick a different name for the plastic phone other than iphone.  

Why? That sounds silly. Crap the phone is more about the UI/OS/software than it is about the physical materials. Get over it folks. Sheesh.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tallest Skil 

Oh, no, yeah. I meant to state that outright: the UI (and to an extent, UX) as well as capabilities of the iPad and future desktop computers won't ever be 1:1, nor should they be. There are some things that will always be better as a mobile device than a stationary one, and there are some things that will always be infeasible on a small screen that are obvious on a large one.

Agreed. And vice-versa. I can imagine some touch (screen) concepts coming to something like iMac (e.g., the ability to "wipe" a window out of the way or drag one) but not being mostly touch driven.

They already sorta do this, it's now just done through the MagicPad (or whatever they call it.)

Quote:

Originally Posted by MJ1970 

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tallest Skil 

 

NO. Don't get mired in that fog; don't get dragged down with these devils. Apple is NOT considering ANYTHING. Apple is doing NOTHING. ANALYSTS have MANIFESTED this BELIEF that Apple MUST cater to a market that DOESN'T exist. 

 

Never forget that. We DON'T know. We includes analysts.

 

 

Interesting. In the sentences above you emphatically declare that "Apple is NOT considering ANYTHING. Apple is doing NOTHING." and then declare that we don't know. Which is it?

 

Of course it is true that none of really knows what Apple is doing (though you have declared that you do above.) But reasonably intelligent people can make educated guesses about what they are doing.

 

Guessing that Apple is "considering" or "looking into" (or whatever you want to say) something like lower-cost options for the iPhone doesn't seem like very much of a stretch at all.

 

If someone were to say that "Apple is considering making kitchen blenders" or "looking into the shoe business" or other such things...well...yes I suppose those might be possible and we don't really know...but they are far more outside the bounds of expected reality. Whereas "considering" lower cost options for a current product line is not at all outside the bounds of expected reality.

I DO love that "expected reality" indeed.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Taniwha 

I DO love that "expected reality" indeed.

I think you know what I'm saying.

This is what will happen, the cheap plastic iphone will be released, maybe just in china, but reguardless it will sell like none other because people will think they are getting an iphone at a samsung price. the idiots at apple will come out will say how surprised they are at the demand and will release it in the US and other countys and thats the day apple slips in between samsung, lg , sony and the rest of the smartphone companys. things will go back to what it was like before the iphone. steves dead, scott is gone. im really losing faith in apple

Quote:

Originally Posted by PhilBoogie 


I know, it's only for new apps

I think you're missing the point. I don't think Apple is requiring that apps (new or otherwise) ONLY support retina displays, just that they do support retina displays.

Originally Posted by Sector7G 
This is what will happen, the cheap plastic iphone will be released, maybe just in china, but reguardless it will sell like none other because people will think they are getting an iphone at a samsung price. the idiots at apple will come out will say how surprised they are at the demand and will release it in the US and other countys and thats the day apple slips in between samsung, lg , sony and the rest of the smartphone companys. things will go back to what it was like before the iphone. steves dead, scott is gone. im really losing faith in apple

SARCASM! It's funny! When properly labeled.

Originally Posted by 1983 
One or the reasons Apple might develop a new 'cheaper' iPhone is to have consistency across its mobile devices with the Lightning connector. Apples current cheap phone the 4s, as everybody knows uses the now obsolete 30 pin dock connector, which Apple wants to phase out.

iPhone 4 and 4S both use it, as do the iPad 2 and iPod classic.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sector7G 

This is what will happen, the cheap plastic iphone will be released, maybe just in china, but reguardless it will sell like none other because people will think they are getting an iphone at a samsung price.

The funny thing is that, if Apple does release a less expensive (possibly plastic-encased) iPhone and these people buy it...they won't just think they are getting an iPhone at a Samsung price...they will be getting an iPhone at a Samsung price (or closer anyway.)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sector7G 

the idiots at apple will come out will say how surprised they are at the demand and will release it in the US and other countys and thats the day apple slips in between samsung, lg , sony and the rest of the smartphone companys. things will go back to what it was like before the iphone. steves dead, scott is gone. im really losing faith in apple

Mkay. Whatever. 

My whole thing to convert people to apple was apple doesnt make cheap plastic phones. looks like that maybe out of the window