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Apple's iCloud reigning over the greenest data centers on the planet - Page 2

post #41 of 59
Quote:
Originally Posted by majjo View Post

It has nothing to do with renewable energy (you can be super efficient while still on coal power). I just find it interesting that the most efficient data centers are not LEED platinum certified considering that energy efficiency is a big part of the certification.

OK. That's what I thought. Also, does it affect the consumer somehow?

 

How "big" a part of the LEED certification is energy efficiency? Does it outweigh the proportion of renewable energy used? (Again, not trying to be argumentative, but just trying to understand how PUE matters).

post #42 of 59
Quote:
Originally Posted by anantksundaram View Post

What do you want to do with the stuff that is there already? And if/when more space for stuff opens up? Assuming the stuff in there can be recycled for useful purposes and there is no new net land use from having to put in landfills, what exactly is the issue that you see?
No issue at all with using what is already there. But for the energy source to be renewable implies that the use of landfill needs to continue for as long as the energy is drawn. Throwing junk in a hole in the ground is not what is usually called "green".

But it's a largely moot point. Landfill will certainly continue for the foreseeable future, so Apple may as well use it.

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post #43 of 59
Yaye, go go Apple! That's the kind of cool things that makes us love you!

Also, nice forest colors on these pictures...

Social Capitalist, dreamer and wise enough to know I'm never going to grow up anyway... so not trying anymore.

 

http://m.ign.com/articles/2014/07/16/7-high-school-girls-are-kickstarting-their-awa...

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Social Capitalist, dreamer and wise enough to know I'm never going to grow up anyway... so not trying anymore.

 

http://m.ign.com/articles/2014/07/16/7-high-school-girls-are-kickstarting-their-awa...

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post #44 of 59
Quote:
Originally Posted by majjo View Post

Currently, Facebook is the best at 1.07. Google is close behind at 1.14. The industry average is 1.8.

I thought FB and GOOG had more than one data center? That FB number is the Oregon data center. The average PUE for all Google data centers is 1.12

 

http://www.google.com/about/datacenters/efficiency/internal/

 

PUE can also be affected by location. For example if you built your data center in Central America you would need a lot more electricity for cooling than if you built your data center in Canada.


Edited by mstone - 3/25/13 at 12:31pm

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post #45 of 59
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone View Post

I thought FB and GOOG had more than one data center? That FB number is the Oregon data center.

PUE can also be affected by location. For example if you built your data center in Central America you would need a lot more electricity for cooling than if you built your data center in Canada.

"We (Google) take the most comprehensive approach to measuring PUE

Our calculations include the performance of our entire fleet of data centers around the world—not just our newest and best facilities. We also continuously measure throughout the year—not just during cooler seasons.

Additionally, we include all sources of overhead in our efficiency metric. We could report much lower numbers if we took the loosest interpretation of the Green Grid's PUE measurement standards. In fact, our best site could boast a PUE as low as 1.06 if we used an interpretation commonly used in the industry. However, we're sticking to a higher standard because we believe it's better to measure and optimize everything on our site, not just part of it. Therefore, we report a comprehensive PUE of 1.12 across all our data centers, in all seasons, including all sources of overhead."

http://www.google.com/about/datacenters/efficiency/internal/
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post #46 of 59
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gatorguy View Post

. In fact, our best site could boast a PUE as low as 1.06 if we used an interpretation commonly used in the industry. However, we're sticking to a higher standard because we believe it's better to measure and optimize everything ...[/B]

Typical. Not wanting to brag about low numbers, but doing it just the same. Gotta love Google ¡
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post #47 of 59
Quote:
Originally Posted by PhilBoogie View Post

Typical. Not wanting to brag about low numbers, but doing it just the same. Gotta love Google ¡

Why wouldn't they want to brag about their data centers efficiency, and what makes you think they don't want to? Apple's rightly proud of their efforts too.
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post #48 of 59

Kook fests like Greenpeace do more damage than good. With this latest tantrum, they prove they are in the "everybody look at my righteous indignation" business and don't give a damn about results. Nothing says poser like a group that puts it's own self aggrandizement before the cause they claim to champion.

 

They should start their own reality-challenged TV show so they can get their celebrity seeking ya-yas without impeding the cause of environmentally responsible action. Oh, wait. That's Whale Wars.

post #49 of 59
Quote:
Originally Posted by hydr View Post

This might help answer your question:

http://www.cringely.com/2011/06/28/have-you-heard-the-one-about-apples-data-center/

 

To me this only demonstrates Cringely's lack of competence and imagination.

post #50 of 59
Quote:
Originally Posted by Flaneur View Post

OT, what's with the stupid curves on the rack doors? Imagine how sick of that design you'd get working there. Why does everything have to have senseless curves in this design era? Who's doing these doors, the same outfit that does Hyundai taillights?

 

I admit that I don't particularly like either the overall curved surface of the door or the raised curves on the surface of the doors.

As to why they are there? It could be any combination of many possible reasons.

 

Besides specific functional needs (i.e. airflow, heat issues, clearance, or the like) the materials and process used effect the design greatly.What are the doors made of? Blown or vacu-formed plastic, stamped metal? Is it a unibody part or an assembly (i.e. mounted on a structural frame?) Generally speaking, curves add to structural rigidity, rigidity adds to the perception of quality and strength while also permitting the use of thinner material, which means less material, which is generally cheaper (and greener.) Perhaps it was desirable to design the parts for nesting and flat shipping or some other factor.

 

Aesthetically, the texture, here produced with with the raised curves on the surface, can serve a purpose too. Besides adding rigidity on a smaller scale, they add visual interest just by the way light interacts with them. This texture might be designed to disguise visual flaws that are inherent to the production process. Or maybe the texture used might (in addition to some of the previously mentioned possibilities) be visually suggestive of the company logo, identity, trade dress, or design language.

 

Most likely it is some combination of all these factors plus several others we haven't considered.

post #51 of 59
Quote:
Originally Posted by DESuserIGN View Post

To me this only demonstrates Cringely's lack of competence and imagination.

Something must have happened to him because he's went off the reservation* a long time ago. He writes:
Quote:
According to the Internet Movie Database there are about 700,000 movies in existence, excluding porn. Most movies will fit (in DVD form) in 4.7 gigabytes. Do the math and you get 3290 terabytes, which is a big number but not that big. Most data centers serving media files would cache about 10 percent for optimum performance. That’s 329 terabytes. Knowing a good percentage of movies aren’t worth the film they were printed on, you can probably come up with a 50 terabyte caching design and be able to serve anything anyone would want to see. Fifty terabytes of cache servers can fit into a couple of racks.

As if a movie would be stored as 4.7GB file, not mention the format he seems to be referring to is a reduced quality MPEG-2 VOB for a single-layer DVD when store-bought or rented DVDs come as dual-layer DVD. If he in no way was meaning to state the would be VOBs then when even mention it or use the 4.7GB value?

Then he goes on to calculate the space as simply being used for server racks without any suggestion the space is used also for supporting other aspects of the facility. It all just reads so weird.



* As I type that common phrase I wonder if it's origins are racist.

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post #52 of 59
Quote:
Originally Posted by DESuserIGN View Post

I admit that I don't particularly like either the overall curved surface of the door or the raised curves on the surface of the doors.

As to why they are there? It could be any combination of many possible reasons.


Agree. Those are some ugly doors. There are probably some fans and liquid cooling coils of some sort which is why I think they are such thick doors.

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post #53 of 59
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

Something must have happened to him because he's went off the reservation* a long time ago. . . .

* As I type that common phrase I wonder if it's origins are racist.

 

Well, it definitely emerges from the bad old days of cowboys and indians, which included racism, colonialism (which were not understood at the time) as well as all kinds of other cultural inequities including everything from robber baronism, and class snobbery to slavery, lynching, maginalization, and eradication. But the phrase has seeped deeply into american culture and vernacular so much that I don't think people notice it much.

On the other hand, americans throughout most of the country probably haven't had the practical opportunity to wonder if they should have use the phrase in conversation with their native american acquaintances (since most are probably unaware of having any!)

post #54 of 59
Quote:
Originally Posted by ksec View Post

Do anyone know how many full size Rack can Apple's Data Center Host?

According to iCringley:   "When planning a data center each rack requires about six square feet of floor space. But for the sake of discussion let’s make that 10 square feet to allow for non-server areas in the building. One million square feet divided by 10 square feet per rack means 100,000 racks could be constructed in the Apple facility. That’s 7.2 million 1U servers unless the racks are built extra-high, in which case there could be more than 7.2million servers."

 

So it looks like apples facility can hold 100,000 racks.  which could hold 7.2 million 1u servers or if there extra high racks there could be more than 7.2 millions 1u servers.

post #55 of 59
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mechanic View Post

According to iCringley:   "When planning a data center each rack requires about six square feet of floor space. But for the sake of discussion let’s make that 10 square feet to allow for non-server areas in the building. One million square feet divided by 10 square feet per rack means 100,000 racks could be constructed in the Apple facility. That’s 7.2 million 1U servers unless the racks are built extra-high, in which case there could be more than 7.2million servers."


So it looks like apples facility can hold 100,000 racks.  which could hold 7.2 million 1u servers or if there extra high racks there could be more than 7.2 millions 1u servers.

As I stated previously, that's not even close to enough "non-server area" for his equation. He's basically only accounting for walking areas no other equipment. And even among the racks there are a lot more than just servers in them.

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post #56 of 59
Quote:
Originally Posted by DESuserIGN View Post

Well, it definitely emerges from the bad old days of cowboys and indians, which included racism, colonialism (which were not understood at the time) as well as all kinds of other cultural inequities including everything from robber baronism, and class snobbery to slavery, lynching, maginalization, and eradication. But the phrase has seeped deeply into american culture and vernacular so much that I don't think people notice it much.
On the other hand, americans throughout most of the country probably haven't had the practical opportunity to wonder if they should have use the phrase in conversation with their native american acquaintances (since most are probably unaware of having any!)

I'm more surprised I hadn't looked it up before. It's hard to imagine anyone using it today would use it with a racial intent, pejoratively or not, but there are many phrases that people use in the same way that are considered wrong. I suppose it comes down to enough people being upset by a the organization of letter or soundwaves that need to evoke a certain emotion before society deems it a cursed.

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post #57 of 59
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mechanic View Post

According to iCringley:   "When planning a data center each rack requires about six square feet of floor space. But for the sake of discussion let’s make that 10 square feet to allow for non-server areas in the building. One million square feet divided by 10 square feet per rack means 100,000 racks could be constructed in the Apple facility. That’s 7.2 million 1U servers unless the racks are built extra-high, in which case there could be more than 7.2million servers."


So it looks like apples facility can hold 100,000 racks.  which could hold 7.2 million 1u servers or if there extra high racks there could be more than 7.2 millions 1u servers.

Cringely has never been shown to be all that competent in technical issues - especially servers.

I'd be surprised if more than 20% of the space in a typical server farm could be used by servers. They need room for walkways, cooling between the servers, chillers/HVAC, office space, power distribution systems, and so on. And all the server space isn't filled with servers, either. You need space for storage as well as space for networking.

Let's just say that it's a fair bet that the people who built this system know more about it than Cringely.
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post #58 of 59
I am beginning to believe that Green Peace has outlived their usefulness. They seem to be technically incompetent and make idiot statements with no basis in fact. This group should be praising Apple and Google and other "green" companies. These companies are leading the world to a better place which I thought that's what Green Peace was advocating!!!

If Green Peace persists in bad mouthing a company that is trying to make a serious difference with highly, efficient "green" data centers, paying the extra money to do the job right. I am appalled that Green Peace is still a viable entity! I believe that they should close shop and go home!!!!
post #59 of 59
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gatorguy View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by PhilBoogie View Post

Typical. Not wanting to brag about low numbers, but doing it just the same. Gotta love Google ¡

Why wouldn't they want to brag about their data centers efficiency, and what makes you think they don't want to? Apple's rightly proud of their efforts too.

True, which is why I don't understand the remark that they could post such and such industry standard numbers, but aren't. Either you post it or you don't.
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