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Rumor: Amazon smartphone to sport 4.7-inch display, launch this year - Page 2

post #41 of 60

You know all this give it away free stuff reminds me of the days when Banks use to give away toaster if you open a savings account. My aunt outfitted her kitchen with counter top appliances by opening Bank accounts. She also got pissed when the things almost burned her kitchen down, but hell it was all free.

 

If you have to give away free stuff to get someone to use your product, are the products really that good.

 

Again Apple gives nothing away and they make more than anyone, that should tell you something.


Edited by Maestro64 - 3/27/13 at 4:19pm
post #42 of 60
Quote:
Originally Posted by igriv View Post

Amazon's operations are very profitable, it just chooses to plow the money back into the business, unlike Apple, which chooses to plow their money under the mattress.

That is bullshit you can't even back up.

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"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

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post #43 of 60
Quote:
Originally Posted by igriv View Post

Apple gives away its OS for $29 to get you to use their expensive hardware. It does this because it's a hardware company. Amazon gives away the Kindle at cost to get you to buy books, movies, and music. That's because selling those things is the business it is in. Similarly, Safeway gives away free parking to get you to go into their stores. Please find someone who is giving away free clues.

1) $29 is not giving anything away. See that value that is above $0? That's called a price.

2) Considering how many core iOS core elements get filtered back into Mac OS X and how fast Mac OS X is growing that $29 price is probably more profitable to Apple han it was when Mac OS X 10.1 first went sale.

3) Apple is a HW company. Apple is SW company. Apple is services company. Apple is an experience company. It's pretty fucking foolish to suggest that Apple doesn't have any business acumen when it comes to SW. Even you can't possibly defend such a stupid position.

4) Safeway gives away parking spots the same way Apple "gives away" access to their store and website. It's fucking access! No ownership is being exchanged.

"The real haunted empire?  It's the New York Times." ~SockRolid

"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

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"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

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post #44 of 60
Quote:
Originally Posted by igriv View Post

Your argument is very convincing. Why don't you read the fucking financials?

I do, and since I can't prove a negative show me these huge net profits they are making that are then diverted to R&D?

"The real haunted empire?  It's the New York Times." ~SockRolid

"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

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"The real haunted empire?  It's the New York Times." ~SockRolid

"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

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post #45 of 60
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zain Khan View Post

 

You, sir, have a way with words :) Nice post.

How nice of you to say! Thx! :)

post #46 of 60
Quote:
Originally Posted by igriv View Post

 

Well, I have used many wireless carriers, and on the East Coast, Verizon is far and away the best (ATT is OK in the Bay Area). What the hell is Cocks'? And as for Apple, yes, gotta love that evil vendor lock-in (I like their devices, but they are trying their best to be evil).

Oops! It's supposed to be "Cox" cable. My bad! :)

 

They are our cable provider out west. Like Comcast in other parts of the country.

post #47 of 60
Quote:
Originally Posted by igriv View Post

Amazon Kindle has been VERY profitable, even if though they are losing money on the hardware (or at least not making money).

Nonsense. Amazon as a whole made only 1% of revenues last year - and the Kindle was a loss leader to help them sell the 'profitable' stuff. So where's your evidence that Kindle has been VERY profitable?
Quote:
Originally Posted by igriv View Post

Your argument is very convincing. Why don't you read the fucking financials?

I did - did you?

Amazon's net income last year was about 1% of revenues. Even their gross margin was about 25%. Since when is that 'very profitable'?
"I'm way over my head when it comes to technical issues like this"
Gatorguy 5/31/13
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"I'm way over my head when it comes to technical issues like this"
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post #48 of 60
Quote:
Originally Posted by igriv View Post

Amazon's gross margin is roughly on par with Walmart and Target and Safeway, however its growth far outstrips any of these. Its capital spend (notice, I did not say R&D -- they are building warehouses, and equipping them with state of the art technology [robots fill your amazon.com boxes more and more these days]. Is its stock fairly valued? No idea, I personally wouldn't buy it, but maybe that's just me. It is ridiculous to compare the gross margins to Apple -- they are in a different business.

In no way are these even close to being the same, much less your erroneous comment claiming that Amazon is on par with Walmart, Target and Safeway combined.

Amazon (2012)
Revenue US$ 61.09 billion
Operating income US$ (676 million) <== Parentheses indicates a loss, not a gain, as you would have us to believe

Walmart (2012)
Revenue US$ 446.950 billion
Operating income US$ 26.558 billion

Apple's digital services alone that they started as a break even business, which have been growing for a decade and in which they invest by the billions, is one of the smallest legs of Apple's business and it alone completely trounces years of of Amazon profits per quarter.

"The real haunted empire?  It's the New York Times." ~SockRolid

"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

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"The real haunted empire?  It's the New York Times." ~SockRolid

"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

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post #49 of 60
Quote:
Originally Posted by igriv View Post

Amazon's operations are very profitable, it just chooses to plow the money back into the business, unlike Apple, which chooses to plow their money under the mattress.

Exactly. iOS, MacOS, iDevices, Macs were all developed for free. The data centers were built for free. /s
post #50 of 60

Sort of related, why can't I find a P/E for Amazon anymore?

Originally posted by Marvin

Even if [the 5.5” iPhone] exists, it doesn’t deserve to.
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Originally posted by Marvin

Even if [the 5.5” iPhone] exists, it doesn’t deserve to.
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post #51 of 60
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

Sort of related, why can't I find a P/E for Amazon anymore?

That's because they no longer have one after their last disastrous quarterly earning. Meaning, it's become not meaningful or not applicable. This means the P (price) to (divided by) E (earnings) means the fraction is null value.



PS: You'll see it noted in the links that the negative P/E can be found but they usually just make the negative zero instead. I guess they don't like to kick a man when they're down.
Edited by SolipsismX - 3/27/13 at 6:26pm

"The real haunted empire?  It's the New York Times." ~SockRolid

"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

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"The real haunted empire?  It's the New York Times." ~SockRolid

"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

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post #52 of 60
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post
That's because they no longer have one after their last disastrous quarterly earning. Meaning, it's become not meaningful or not applicable This means the P (profits) over (divided by) E (earnings) means the fraction is null value.

 

*snort*

 

That's what I thought. Thanks!

Originally posted by Marvin

Even if [the 5.5” iPhone] exists, it doesn’t deserve to.
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Originally posted by Marvin

Even if [the 5.5” iPhone] exists, it doesn’t deserve to.
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post #53 of 60
Quote:
Originally Posted by igriv View Post

Huh? I was talking about gross margins, not net profit.

That's not what you said. You said it was very profitable. Profit is the bottom line - not gross margin.

And even on a gross margin level, I'm still waiting for your evidence that the Kindle has a good gross margin. By all reports, its gross margin is negative, so where's the evidence that it leads to enough ancillary sales to become "very profitable"?

Quote:
Originally Posted by igriv View Post

Amazon's gross margin is roughly on par with Walmart and Target and Safeway, however its growth far outstrips any of these. Its capital spend (notice, I did not say R&D -- they are building warehouses, and equipping them with state of the art technology [robots fill your amazon.com boxes more and more these days]. Is its stock fairly valued? No idea, I personally wouldn't buy it, but maybe that's just me. It is ridiculous to compare the gross margins to Apple -- they are in a different business.

Funny, but no one did that - until you started bragging about how profitable the Kindle is - and you never provided any evidence.

BTW, the "growth makes up for losses" meme was discarded ages ago. Growing without making a profit is foolish - and AMZN's profit has declined every year.
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post #54 of 60
Quote:
Originally Posted by igriv View Post

Yes, this is because (a) the Bezos model has always been long term growth in preference to short term profit, and (b) Apple is gouges its customers : iCloud is at least double the price of the nearest competitor. People use it because they need it for the much vaunted "Apple ecosystem". But the truth is, it is a complete ripoff, and functionality-wise, while it has some nice ones (BackToMyMac), it pretty much sucks compared to Dropbox, which has a much smaller R&D spend, and has no data centers (or at least didn't -- they historically ran on the Amazon cloud!), and is also far cheaper. Google Drive is cheaper still.

So much bullshit from you. What's your deal? You think the only feature of the FREE iCloud has that Dropbox doesn't is Back To My Mac? Surely this has to be trolling and FUD at this point to say this after so long with iCloud, and MobileMe and .Mac before it offering a plethora of features still not found on any other single cloud service. Now I love Dropbox but it's because Dropbox is a service that happens to offer the one service iCloud does not, but in no way to compare Dropbox's R&D with Apple's for their cloud services. iTS? Hello?! You really think the iTS is somehow on par to the size and scope of Dropbox. 1oyvey.gif


PS: It's funny how you were earlier complaining that Apple didn't invest as you claimed Amazon does that with all the "profits" [LOL] and now you are complaining that Apple spends too much when Dropbox has to spend so little for you what claim are comparable services.
Edited by SolipsismX - 3/27/13 at 7:18pm

"The real haunted empire?  It's the New York Times." ~SockRolid

"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

Reply

"The real haunted empire?  It's the New York Times." ~SockRolid

"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

Reply
post #55 of 60
Quote:
Originally Posted by igriv View Post

No, not for free, but for a very small fraction of their revenue. Apple's R&D spend is very small (as a percentage of revenue) compared to competition (if you want to be charitable, you can say that this is because their revenue is so large).

Charitable? They made the most money. They can't possibly spend that much on R&D. It's also about efficiency.
Quote:
Originally Posted by igriv View Post

Yes, this is because (a) the Bezos model has always been long term growth in preference to short term profit, and (b) Apple is gouges its customers :

How are they gouging their customers? Supply/demand. No one needs to buy Apple.
post #56 of 60
Quote:
Originally Posted by jungmark View Post

How are they gouging their customers? Supply/demand. No one needs to buy Apple.

You know, how they let a product sit past when one wants it updated because they are "milking' their loyal customers for more profit, and how they update a product before one wants it updated because they are "milking" their loyal customers by obsolescing their products too soon for profit.

"The real haunted empire?  It's the New York Times." ~SockRolid

"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

Reply

"The real haunted empire?  It's the New York Times." ~SockRolid

"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

Reply
post #57 of 60
Quote:
Originally Posted by jungmark View Post

How are they gouging their customers? Supply/demand. No one needs to buy Apple.

You know, how they let a product sit past when one wants it updated because they are "milking' their loyal customers for more profit, and how they update a product before one wants it updated because they are "milking" their loyal customers by obsolescing their products too soon for profit.

"The real haunted empire?  It's the New York Times." ~SockRolid

"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

Reply

"The real haunted empire?  It's the New York Times." ~SockRolid

"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

Reply
post #58 of 60

I can't believe I missed this earlier. Though I guess since I can't do anything about it, that's understandable.


Originally Posted by igriv View Post
(b) Apple is gouges its customers

 

I'm about to do some gouging of my own.


iCloud is at least double the price of the nearest competitor.

 

Let's see, free divided by two equals… 


…the much vaunted "Apple ecosystem"… …it is a complete ripoff… …it pretty much sucks… …has no data centers… …the Apple management… …is hired help…

 

Leave. Please. Do us all a favor.

Originally posted by Marvin

Even if [the 5.5” iPhone] exists, it doesn’t deserve to.
Reply

Originally posted by Marvin

Even if [the 5.5” iPhone] exists, it doesn’t deserve to.
Reply
post #59 of 60
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

why can't I find a P/E for Amazon anymore?

 

Because you can't divide by zero.

post #60 of 60
Quote:
Originally Posted by minicapt View Post

1.  igrive reads the Amazon press releases.
2.  He understands the concept of "making it up in volume".

Cheers

Amazon's net loss in 2012 was $39 million. That is some impressive "making it up in volume."
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