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Apple prepping Final Cut Pro X campaign to win back video editors

post #1 of 72
Thread Starter 
Final Cut Pro X debuted in 2011 to groans from many in the professional video editing community, and now Apple is planning a marketing push to win those users back from its competitors' software.

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Apple on Thursday is set to launch a campaign aimed at getting pro video editors to take another look at Final Cut Pro, according to The Los Angeles Times. That campaign will feature users like Julian Liurette, video editor for Toronto's Globe and Mail. Liurette says that, having used the software a year after its release ? with the benefit of multiple Apple updates ? he was satisfied enough with its performance that he began moving his publication's video operations to the new version.

"Its interface is 100 times more interesting," Liurette said. "And it's much, much faster."

Apple's campaign is timed to coincide with the National Association of Broadcasters convention, beginning April 6 in Las Vegas. It will include testimonials from professionals like Luriette on the Final Cut Pro X website. In addition to Luriette, the site will feature famed Hong Kong cinematographer Tsui Hark and editors from telenovela production company TV Azteca.

Final Cut Pro X has seen seven updates in the two years since its release, as Apple has attempted to address complaints from pro users that Apple's changes to the suite's features watered down what had been a professional-level software offering.

Apple's subsequent updates to the software added features that pro users had been requesting, but the effectiveness of those additions is questionable. No marketing company reliably tracks video editing software market share, but Apple's competitors, Avid and Adobe, say they saw increased usage in the wake of Final Cut Pro X's release.
post #2 of 72
Originally Posted by gwmac View Post
You need more than an updated Final Cut to win them back. You need that elusive updated Mac Pro. Video editing needs all the horsepower you can get.


Hopefully WWDC will be interesting from a pro standpoint.

 

Of course, after it's over we'll have dozens of trolls on here whining about how "all the products were updated at once; that means Apple is failing". lol.gif

 

News flash, idiots: Apple doesn't get to choose when the chips come out. If Intel releases them all at once, then Apple should probably update as soon as possible. We'll likely see the Haswell iMac, Mac Mini, MacBook Pro, and MacBook Air roughly around WWDC, and maybe they'll have the Mac Pro done by then, too. If not, hey, they should take their time. 

post #3 of 72
That sounds cool enough. How about giving us a new Mac Pro? I'm dying to buy 6 of them for my studio. If nothing comes out by the end of this year, I'm moving to Windows.
post #4 of 72
"News flash, idiots: Apple doesn't get to choose when the chips come out. If Intel releases them all at once, then Apple should probably update as soon as possible. We'll likely see the Haswell iMac, Mac Mini, MacBook Pro, and MacBook Air roughly around WWDC, and maybe they'll have the Mac Pro done by then, too. If not, hey, they should take their time. "

Err.... Sandy Bridge Xeons have been available since last June. It's Apple who chose not to upgrade the Mac Pro with them. There would have been no complaint if Mac Pro updates follow Intel's chip release schedule. It makes things much easier to plan for the pro users.
post #5 of 72
They'd better focus on higher ed. I know first-hand of multiple universities that have completely dropped Final Cut Pro (the platform they previous taught) to Adobe. That's hundred of video editors being minted every year that are being educated about Apple's abandonment of the professional marketplace in a failed bid to chase the "prosumer" market. Turns out there are hobbyists, there are professionals, and vastly fewer prosumers.

I've been saying it for years; Apple's abandonment of professionals blunts the tip of the testimonial spear, and it will cost Apple in the long run.
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post #6 of 72
Quote:
Originally Posted by gwmac View Post

You need more than an updated Final Cut to win them back. You need that elusive updated Mac Pro. Video editing needs all the horsepower you can get.

Question: I use iVI to convert lots of videos (add metadata, etc) and include them on iTunes.

 

I do this on i7 2011 air, and this little beast converts them at 100% Cpu (obviously) during a whole day non stop (and a few hours to rest) and even during conversions, it doesn't get uncomfortably warn and is still perfectly useful. I do this a lot, and it looks like it doesn't even need to stop... I never thought (when I bought it) that it would be THIS good.

 

What's like to do the same thing on a fully loaded beast like the Mac Pro? Can you describe it? I never used a computer like that.

post #7 of 72
Maybe Apple will have a wonderful surprise for us and introduce a new Mac Pro during NAB.
post #8 of 72
Quote:
Originally Posted by zoffdino View Post

That sounds cool enough. How about giving us a new Mac Pro? I'm dying to buy 6 of them for my studio. If nothing comes out by the end of this year, I'm moving to Windows.

Well then go.  If you are that upset about it stop the crowing and get on the Windows 8 bus!

post #9 of 72
Quote:
Originally Posted by godrifle View Post

They'd better focus on higher ed. I know first-hand of multiple universities that have completely dropped Final Cut Pro (the platform they previous taught) to Adobe. That's hundred of video editors being minted every year that are being educated about Apple's abandonment of the professional marketplace in a failed bid to chase the "prosumer" market. Turns out there are hobbyists, there are professionals, and vastly fewer prosumers.

I've been saying it for years; Apple's abandonment of professionals blunts the tip of the testimonial spear, and it will cost Apple in the long run.

Same here. Zurich Art University has dropped Final Cut Studio and is migrating to Adobe products and Avid, depending on the department. Final Cut X has been evaluated and is not considered professional enough. Students have started moving to Windows and Linux in large numbers. 

post #10 of 72
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

[...] maybe they'll have the Mac Pro done by then, too. If not, hey, they should take their time. 

 

DING DING DING! We have a winner, folks!

 

The topic of this article is EXACTLY why they should, as you point out, TAKE THEIR TIME. Apple has spent two years trying to undo the damage they did to their pro editing market. Taking a product to market before it's ready for its target users is not a working program. Just ask the Maps team.

 

I have software with bugs that are fixed by an update I can't install until I get a newer machine, so I'm anxious for an updated Pro, too. I don't want a rushed machine though, as its likely to introduce as many problems as it solves. I'd much rather put up with the issues I know and understand a while longer so that when I plop down what is sure to be a dump truck full of cash I don't wind up with something that's two years short of being useful and reliable.

post #11 of 72
@v5v
That's silly. Hardware is refreshed constantly. You don't need years of development to update a processor or add USB 3 and thunderbolt. Apple updates its laptops 1-2x a year and they are more complex than desktops.
post #12 of 72
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post


Hopefully WWDC will be interesting from a pro standpoint.

 

Of course, after it's over we'll have dozens of trolls on here whining about how "all the products were updated at once; that means Apple is failing". lol.gif

 

News flash, idiots: Apple doesn't get to choose when the chips come out. If Intel releases them all at once, then Apple should probably update as soon as possible. We'll likely see the Haswell iMac, Mac Mini, MacBook Pro, and MacBook Air roughly around WWDC, and maybe they'll have the Mac Pro done by then, too. If not, hey, they should take their time. 

 

Apple updated the Mac Pro in 2012... to chips that were released in 2011 and STILL hasn't updated to the latest chips that were already shipping in PCs at the time of that refresh.  Further, there is no Thunderbolt, USB 3.0, not even SATA III... how long have those technologies been available?  Not to mention that video cards have perpetually been a year or more behind what is available in the PC world.

post #13 of 72
I'm waiting for an update Aperture. Light Room is getting cooler with each release while Aperture languishes...
post #14 of 72
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post


"Its interface is 100 times more interesting," Liurette said. "And it's much, much faster."

silly comment. i have a dust hippo© in the corner of my apartment that's 100 times more interesting [than the dust bunny under my bed]. that doesn't make it better.
post #15 of 72
Originally Posted by Maltz View Post
Apple updated the Mac Pro in 2012...

 

I don't consider that an update. I mean, really. It wasn't. They just moved chips around.


But they explicitly stated it's getting one this year.

post #16 of 72
Quote:
Originally Posted by v5v View Post

DING DING DING! We have a winner, folks!

The topic of this article is EXACTLY why they should, as you point out, TAKE THEIR TIME. Apple has spent two years trying to undo the damage they did to their pro editing market. Taking a product to market before it's ready for its target users is not a working program. Just ask the Maps team.

I have software with bugs that are fixed by an update I can't install until I get a newer machine, so I'm anxious for an updated Pro, too. I don't want a rushed machine though, as its likely to introduce as many problems as it solves. I'd much rather put up with the issues I know and understand a while longer so that when I plop down what is sure to be a dump truck full of cash I don't wind up with something that's two years short of being useful and reliable.

Apple's problem with both Maps and Zinal Cut is marketing. They were major undertakings that in the case of maps should have been labeled as a beta product and in the case of Final Cut a light version that would quickly see updates.

It is hard to get upset if you know the products still need some work.
post #17 of 72
We've been an Apple shop for 20 years. I'm a huge Apple fan at work and at home.

For us the eroded trust isn't just a matter of FCP X, (which I really like by the way) - it's about a perceived pattern - Apples absence from NAB, dropping Xserve, dropping Final Cut Server, a lack of MacPro updates and the FCP X issues.

So for us, we're waiting to see if this is a campaign of words or of actions. I'm hoping for the latter!

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Joel W. Smith

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post #18 of 72
Quote:
Originally Posted by johnmcboston View Post

I'm waiting for an update Aperture. Light Room is getting cooler with each release while Aperture languishes...

Apple needs to seriously improve their relationships with the pro crowd. Video, graphics, photography are areas where I think Apple needs to spend money and ensure that both software and hardware remains at the cutting edge. Its not about selling lots of high margin kit to professionals - its more about the marketing value of the cachet that being the number one choice in these ares bring. Generally in those circles marketing in terms of the mass market is less relevant. In fact, I imagine that exposing the general public to the marketing aimed at the pro's is the wrong thing to do and may well be counter productive.  

 

If Apple is initiating a marketing campaign for Final Cut using the video editor for Toronto's Globe and Mail as a spokes person I wonder if they are giving up on the 'real' pro's (TV & Movies) and instead going for the (much larger) general media market. I am not saying that is a bad decision, its just an observation. 

post #19 of 72

When Final Cut Pro X was released aside from complains about functionally, half the complains were also about its huge price cut.

post #20 of 72
Quote:
Originally Posted by gwmac View Post

Well, you pretty much already understand how it works. The Mac Pro just has the advantage of having a lot more cores and also the ability to add a lot more RAM. That extra horsepower when all cores are being used can chew through video a lot faster than an iMac. Even an older Mac Pro can still run circles around the latest iMac for tasks that can use all cores.

What a coincidence... I have been debating on whether to ditch the 2009 MacPro have and go with a 27" iMac i7. My MacPro has 24 gig RAM and dual 4 core processors (8 cores) and (last night I was) storing to a Hitachi drive on a eSATA dock. I did a compile of a video last night. Transcoded a 58 minute 1080/30p video to DVD (did not include the actual burn because I used different burners). I put the same project on my Retina MBP running an i7 at 2.6 GHz with 8 gig RAM, writing the file to a Thunderbolted Hitachi hard drive. I ran a stop watch on both machines. The MacPro completed the task in 35 minutes, the MBP in 37. That is not a huge gap in time and the iMac has a lot more horsepower than the MBP. Then factor in the cost of the machines and that iMac starts looking pretty attractive.

post #21 of 72
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quitchur Fussin View Post

Well then go.  If you are that upset about it stop the crowing and get on the Windows 8 bus!

Thanks for the advise, but I think I understand my business better than you do and hence, know better why to switch, or not.

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by johnmcboston View Post

I'm waiting for an update Aperture. Light Room is getting cooler with each release while Aperture languishes...

Like you I was holding out for Aperture 4 last summer. Then the summer passed and nothing happened. It dawned on me that even if Apple released Aperture 4 the next day, all this uncertainty is really frustrating to me. I want to stable, predictable upgrade cycle. On the other hand, the image quality in Lightroom as its noise control are far above that of Aperture 3. I downloaded Lightroom 4, and despite hating every bit of that stupid GUI (still hates it now), I have to admit: it's a better RAW converter than Aperture.

post #22 of 72
Quote:
Originally Posted by v5v View Post

I have software with bugs that are fixed by an update I can't install until I get a newer machine, so I'm anxious for an updated Pro, too. I don't want a rushed machine though, as its likely to introduce as many problems as it solves. I'd much rather put up with the issues I know and understand a while longer so that when I plop down what is sure to be a dump truck full of cash I don't wind up with something that's two years short of being useful and reliable.

 

I have to chuckle at the notion that any Mac Pro released after this much time would have been a "rushed machine".  Sure, give it another two years  1rolleyes.gif  For there not to have been a stopgap Mac Pro with a solid video card and ports current to whenever the release was is enough of a statement of Apple's priorities.  

 

Lots of people can wait two years for something (not that there was ever an assurance of two years and not five), but there's a whole world of people who can't buy into something (speaking of FCPX here, not the hardware) that's not ready, and may not be for years.

 

 

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by joelsmith View Post

We've been an Apple shop for 20 years. I'm a huge Apple fan at work and at home.

For us the eroded trust isn't just a matter of FCP X, (which I really like by the way) - it's about a perceived pattern - Apples absence from NAB, dropping Xserve, dropping Final Cut Server, a lack of MacPro updates and the FCP X issues.

So for us, we're waiting to see if this is a campaign of words or of actions. I'm hoping for the latter!

 

That's pretty much how I feel.  And I'll add the lack of attention to Logic to the list (and Aperture, though to a lesser extent but still having the effect).  I'm amazed at how the percentage of Logic as the main DAW by both casual musicians and pro producers has slipped, and not by just a little.  It's unbelievable that there are problems with Logic related to Lion and ML updates that Apple doesn't fix.  Like joelsmith says, it's not that the products are horrible, it's just that the confidence from people who need to be confident just isn't there any more.

 

 Not that Apple needs it.


Edited by jlandd - 3/28/13 at 10:52am
post #23 of 72
Quote:
Originally Posted by justamacguy View Post

What a coincidence... I have been debating on whether to ditch the 2009 MacPro have and go with a 27" iMac i7. My MacPro has 24 gig RAM and dual 4 core processors (8 cores) and (last night I was) storing to a Hitachi drive on a eSATA dock. I did a compile of a video last night. Transcoded a 58 minute 1080/30p video to DVD (did not include the actual burn because I used different burners). I put the same project on my Retina MBP running an i7 at 2.6 GHz with 8 gig RAM, writing the file to a Thunderbolted Hitachi hard drive. I ran a stop watch on both machines. The MacPro completed the task in 35 minutes, the MBP in 37. That is not a huge gap in time and the iMac has a lot more horsepower than the MBP. Then factor in the cost of the machines and that iMac starts looking pretty attractive.

 

If you are only looking at raw CPU power, the new iMacs are attractive. But there are other requirements in a studio, like color accuracy, color uniformness (we equip all workstations with NEC PA monitors to make sure clips look the same to all editors), expandability (plenty of PCI extensions cards), massive RAM, etc. iMac screens are good, but are not suitable for pro video editing, and (I can't emphasize this enough) are glossy. Torture the iMac for 8 hours a day, and you will see discoloration on the LCD screen. The Mac Pro will simply kick along.

post #24 of 72

deleted


Edited by MacRulez - 7/23/13 at 9:47am
post #25 of 72
Quote:
Originally Posted by pjanders View Post

Maybe Apple will have a wonderful surprise for us and introduce a new Mac Pro during NAB.

 

I believe Tim Cook said it would be later in the year.

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post #26 of 72
I don't need a propaganda campaign to convince me to use garbage. I need a useable piece of video editing software. Apple hasn't produced one since creating the abomination called Final Cut X.

I do all my editing on an old MacBook Pro (ca. 2006) running Final Cut 5.x. I expect that machine to crash and burn before Apple admits its mistake. Any suggestions on video editing software?
post #27 of 72
Quote:
Originally Posted by jlandd View Post

I have to chuckle at the notion that any Mac Pro released after this much time would have been a "rushed machine".  Sure, give it another two years  1rolleyes.gif

 

LOL! I hadn't thought about it that way. Good point! Still, the basic sentiment still applies -- if, for reasons that are hard to imagine, it still isn't ready, I'd rather wait while they do whatever's required to make it 100% than pay multikilobux for something with issues that will be resolved in the next update.

 

Of course, I say that in the context of so far still being able to get daily work done. If that were to change, I'm not sure what I'd do.

post #28 of 72
Originally Posted by TheBlackbird View Post
I need a useable piece of video editing software. Apple hasn't produced one since creating the abomination called Final Cut X. I do all my editing on an old MacBook Pro (ca. 2006) running Final Cut 5.x.

 

Ah, so you've never even used it. Gotcha.


Any suggestions on video editing software?

 

Final Cut Pro X.

post #29 of 72
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

 

Ah, so you've never even used it. Gotcha.

 

 

 

Why would you read that from his statement?   I know LOTS of professional video editors who use FCP7 for their work who know their way around FCPX very well.

post #30 of 72
Originally Posted by jlandd View Post
Why would you read that from his statement?

 

He's complaining that it's crap. That tells me he hasn't used it in the first place. Never mind that he goes on to say that he still uses version FIVE. 

post #31 of 72
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

 

I don't consider that an update. I mean, really. It wasn't. They just moved chips around.


But they explicitly stated it's getting one this year.

 

No, actually they did not. They stated that they have something for pro users coming later in 2013. That's all. The context was the Mac Pro, but Cook said nothing specific, so it could mean anything.

post #32 of 72
Quote:
Originally Posted by gwmac View Post

You need more than an updated Final Cut to win them back. You need that elusive updated Mac Pro. Video editing needs all the horsepower you can get.


Well, I'm sure Apple would LOVE to announce and ship a new MacPro, the problem is Intel has to announce and start shipping their new Ivy Bridge XEON processors which haven't been released yet.  That, I think, is what is holding every thing up, and I hope that these "ASSUTE" video editors know that it's not Apple's fault they haven't released a major upgrade to the MacPro.

post #33 of 72
Originally Posted by dysamoria View Post
No, actually they did not. They stated that they have something for pro users coming later in 2013. That's all. The context was the Mac Pro, but Cook said nothing specific, so it could mean anything.

 

Although we didn't have a chance to talk about a new Mac Pro at today's event, don't worry as we're working on something really great for later next year

 

So, uh, want to revise that?

post #34 of 72
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

 

 

So, uh, want to revise that?

 

You can still read it very openly. Yes, the implication is a Mac Pro, but why assume this is a definite statement?

post #35 of 72
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

He's complaining that it's crap. That tells me he hasn't used it in the first place.

 

That should tell you that he HAS used it! 1smile.gif

 

But seriously, I actually haven't tried it myself. Not because it lacks features I need though, I just don't care much for the new interface or Apple's "atypical" file management system.

post #36 of 72
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post


Hopefully WWDC will be interesting from a pro standpoint.

 

Of course, after it's over we'll have dozens of trolls on here whining about how "all the products were updated at once; that means Apple is failing". lol.gif

 

News flash, idiots: Apple doesn't get to choose when the chips come out. If Intel releases them all at once, then Apple should probably update as soon as possible. We'll likely see the Haswell iMac, Mac Mini, MacBook Pro, and MacBook Air roughly around WWDC, and maybe they'll have the Mac Pro done by then, too. If not, hey, they should take their time. 

I don't think that's how it works.  The MacPro uses XEON chips and I don't think Intel has updated the XEON chips to Ivy Bridge, yet.  

 

The Haswell chips for laptops and lower level desktops start shipping at different times than the XEON chips. I don't why other than that's what Intel is actually doing.  I also read Intel is readying a new Thunderbolt chip set and there are some new graphic cards getting released.  

post #37 of 72
Quote:
Originally Posted by gwmac View Post

You need more than an updated Final Cut to win them back. You need that elusive updated Mac Pro. Video editing needs all the horsepower you can get.

Twelve-core Xeon, HD-SDI capture card options, terabytes of internal storage, and a nvidia Quadro not enough?

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"Apple should pull the plug on the iPhone."

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post #38 of 72
Originally Posted by drblank View Post
I don't think that's how it works.  The MacPro uses XEON chips and I don't think Intel has updated the XEON chips to Ivy Bridge, yet.  

 

They will this year. Marvin knows more about all this.

 


Originally Posted by dysamoria View Post
You can still read it very openly.

 

Sure. That doesn't mean you're right in doing so. But it's physically possible to do so.


Yes, the implication is a Mac Pro, but why assume this is a definite statement?

 

Because it is.

post #39 of 72
Quote:
Originally Posted by pedromartins View Post

Question: I use iVI to convert lots of videos (add metadata, etc) and include them on iTunes.

I do this on i7 2011 air, and this little beast converts them at 100% Cpu (obviously) during a whole day non stop (and a few hours to rest) and even during conversions, it doesn't get uncomfortably warn and is still perfectly useful. I do this a lot, and it looks like it doesn't even need to stop... I never thought (when I bought it) that it would be THIS good.

What's like to do the same thing on a fully loaded beast like the Mac Pro? Can you describe it? I never used a computer like that.

Best thing is to check online. Most well-written Mac OS X apps use GCD (libdispatch) and should scale up with the number of cores. Number crunching apps like compression, rendering, global illumination, DCT algorithms, etc. should scale nicely, because these are by nature highly parallel. But if an app is poorly written, it's possible that it'll limit itself to a fixed number of cores, and that's bad.

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post #40 of 72
Quote:
Originally Posted by v5v View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

He's complaining that it's crap. That tells me he hasn't used it in the first place.

 

That should tell you that he HAS used it! 1smile.gif

 

But seriously, I actually haven't tried it myself. Not because it lacks features I need though, I just don't care much for the new interface or Apple's "atypical" file management system.

 

Atypical... watch this:

 

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E1ql241Qytg&feature=player_embedded

 

BTW, take note of the machine being used to run FCPX and the machine used to guide (tele prompt?) the preso.


Edited by Dick Applebaum - 3/28/13 at 2:27pm
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