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WSJ: Apple to begin 'iPhone 5S' production this quarter, less expensive iPhone coming later this...

post #1 of 47
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Apple plans to begin production of its next flagship iPhone this quarter, while the company also has a new, less expensive model in the works for later this year, according to The Wall Street Journal.

2013 Predictions
Source: KGI Securities


Purported details about Apple's upcoming smartphone plans were reported by authors Lorraine Luk and Jessica E. Lessin on Tuesday, who revealed that production of a so-called "iPhone 5S" will begin this quarter. That sets Apple's next iPhone up for a launch as soon as this summer, which would be a change from the later iPhone 5 launch Apple instituted last year.

In addition, Apple is also said to be working on a less expensive iPhone model with a different casing. That handset will reportedly retain the 4-inch display of the iPhone 5.

Tuesday's report doesn't offer any surprising details, but does corroborate with what earlier reports have claimed about Apple's 2013 plans for the iPhone lineup. Parts claimed to be from the "iPhone 5S" were spotted last month, providing further evidence that Apple's next handset could be nearing production.

The Journal offered no indication as to whether an "iPhone 5S" might include a fingerprint sensor underneath the home button for secure transactions. Those claims were first made in January by analyst Ming-Chi Kuo of KGI Securities, who has a strong track record in predicting Apple's future product pipeline.

iPhones
Apple's current iPhone lineup.


As for a cheaper iPhone, speculation has grown that Apple is interested in addressing the low-end smartphone market, particularly in developing countries where customers prefer to purchase unsubsidized handsets without a service contract. It's believed that such a device would be targeted at China and Brazil, in particular.

That handset is said to have plastic or polycarbonate body that would allow Apple to sell the device at a lower cost. The current iPhone 5 has a metal back, while the iPhone 4S and iPhone 4 feature glass cases.
post #2 of 47
I guess WSJ is officially in the rumor business now?
post #3 of 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by am8449 View Post

I guess WSJ is officially in the rumor business now?

When it comes to Apple, everybody is in the rumor/BS business it seems.

post #4 of 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by Apple ][ View Post

When it comes to Apple, everybody is in the rumor/BS business it seems.

 

I wish they and other real news sites would just get off Apple's nuts so the stock price can go back to normal.

 

I miss the good ol' slow-n-steady days.

post #5 of 47

Well if the WSJ is in the rumor business, they're only what, 3 months late on this one?  It's just a total repeat of what we've already heard, not sure why it's noteworthy. 

post #6 of 47
Q3 is April - June, right? So doesn't that mean they've already missed the MBA update in that chart?

And right now, I'm less interested in the iPhone 5S update -- is there any new rumors on Haswell Retina MacBook Pros? Looking to consolidate from a iMac/MBA setup to a rMBP only setup this year.
post #7 of 47
I am sick and tired 4" screen, Mr. Cook!
post #8 of 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by allenbf View Post

Well if the WSJ is in the rumor business, they're only what, 3 months late on this one?  It's just a total repeat of what we've already heard, not sure why it's noteworthy. 

Maybe because the WSJ has better credibility than Digitimes?
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post #9 of 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by majjo View Post

I think they're going by calendar year, not fiscal. So Q3 would be July August September.

That chart has the MBA in late Q2, so probably around June.

Agree they are going calendar quarter. Of course, is the AppleTV refresh the smaller chip? That it?
post #10 of 47

SO, will the 5S get 802.11ac?!  I am actually surprised Apple has not release ANY 802.11ac products yet...  

post #11 of 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by GadgetCanada View Post

 

I don't think Apple wants to start fragmenting their screen sizes like Android did. LOTS of people are very happy with 4" screens including myself. If they did increase the screen size, they should at least keep the same resolutions to make it easier for the developers.

Agreed, when I want a larger screen I'll reach for an iPad mini, LTE or WiFi.

 

For my pockets the 5 is terrific and based on the doubling of worldwide shipments versus the SIII (and the 4 also shipping more than the SIII) I'd expect there's many who agree.

post #12 of 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta View Post


Maybe because the WSJ has better credibility than Digitimes?

 

I don't follow Digitimes, but others have made the same claims.  KGI Securities, for example.  As pictured above.  It's still a re-hash.

post #13 of 47

Yes for China Mobile the older 4 and 4s aren't an answer because they don't have the compatible radio, so a simpler China Mobile phone would be in line with Apple's current practise of offering a variety of performance/price points ala the 4/4s/5 line up.

post #14 of 47
Let's hope Apple has enough products on hand to deliver this time around. Seems like an awfully crowded third quarter.

Also, this kind of bunching up might be somewhat inefficient if you're trying access people's share of wallet on a steady basis throughout the year (even allowing for the additional spending bump during the holiday season).
post #15 of 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by allenbf View Post

Well if the WSJ is in the rumor business, they're only what, 3 months late on this one?  It's just a total repeat of what we've already heard, not sure why it's noteworthy. 

 

Its noteworthy as proof that they are full of crap cause they are reporting months old rumors without thought to fact that apple is releasing phone on t-mobile in 2 weeks. Why would they bother if the iPhone 5S will be two months later. They would wait and do them together

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post #16 of 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by gwmac View Post

You have no idea how well a larger iPhone would sell in comparison to the current 4" size because that option doesn't exist. How many current iPhone owners bought an iPhone because of iOS, the Apple ecosystem, or other factors but really pine for a larger display? How many Android owners would buy an iPhone in a second and only chose Android because Apple doesn't offer a larger display which many find important? I am sure there are also many people like you perfectly happy with the current 4" size but you can't lump all of us who bought one in with you. I have an iPhone but hate the tiny screen and would kill for a 4.8" iPhone. 

Do you seriously believe that Apple does not know? And, if the numbers are large enough -- as you happen to think -- why would you think Apple would not want to access that slice of the market?
post #17 of 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by anantksundaram View Post

Let's hope Apple has enough products on hand to deliver this time around. Seems like an awfully crowded third quarter.
 

 

They won't. The factories can only make so much and the demand goes up. Even if Apple changes games and warehouses for a month before hand, the demand is so nuts that they still won't have enough.

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post #18 of 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by gwmac View Post

You have no idea how well a larger iPhone would sell in comparison to the current 4" size because that option doesn't exist. How many current iPhone owners bought an iPhone because of iOS, the Apple ecosystem, or other factors but really pine for a larger display? How many Android owners would buy an iPhone in a second and only chose Android because Apple doesn't offer a larger display which many find important? I am sure there are also many people like you perfectly happy with the current 4" size but you can't lump all of us who bought one in with you. I have an iPhone but hate the tiny screen and would kill for a 4.8" iPhone. 

I didn't do ANY "lumping" now did I?

 

Why not just buy an LTE iPad mini and go really "big"? 

post #19 of 47

Isn't it unusual Apple hasn't had any major product events yet this year? They've been awfully quiet, other than the surprise 128GB iPad. I hope the 5S comes sooner rather than later.

post #20 of 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by charlituna View Post

 

Its noteworthy as proof that they are full of crap cause they are reporting months old rumors without thought to fact that apple is releasing phone on t-mobile in 2 weeks. Why would they bother if the iPhone 5S will be two months later. They would wait and do them together

 

I'll accept that answer, it makes more sense than anything else.

post #21 of 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by GadgetCanada View Post

I don't think Apple wants to start fragmenting their screen sizes like Android did. LOTS of people are very happy with 4" screens including myself. If they did increase the screen size, they should at least keep the same resolutions to make it easier for the developers.

Maybe, but lots of people, including many Asian customers in a recent survey, strongly prefer bigger than 4 inch screens. So if Apple is trying to make inroads in places like Japan, China, and the like, it might need to get a larger screen.
post #22 of 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by blackbook View Post

Isn't it unusual Apple hasn't had any major product events yet this year? They've been awfully quiet, other than the surprise 128GB iPad. I hope the 5S comes sooner rather than later.

Bringing the iPhone to T-Mobile is pretty big news.
post #23 of 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by rMBP15 View Post

I am sick and tired 4" screen, Mr. Cook!

 

If Apple Insider were a bar in the "wild west," you would have just cleared a table.  Somebody's gonna come fer yuh.

post #24 of 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by TBell View Post

Bringing the iPhone to T-Mobile is pretty big news.

Meh (I agree with the market on that).

 

Now, China Mobile would be something else.....

post #25 of 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by SmileyDude View Post

Q3 is April - June, right? So doesn't that mean they've already missed the MBA update in that chart?

And right now, I'm less interested in the iPhone 5S update -- is there any new rumors on Haswell Retina MacBook Pros? Looking to consolidate from a iMac/MBA setup to a rMBP only setup this year.
well what about the first quarters Apple TV update?

Quote:
Originally Posted by rMBP15 View Post

I am sick and tired 4" screen, Mr. Cook!
You must have missed the post that the next two iPhones are still from Steve Jobs so we still have to wait and see, I still do not mind 4 inch but about 4.5 inches would be not to big or to small for most people, do you have a opinion on the best screen size?
post #26 of 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by anantksundaram View Post


Do you seriously believe that Apple does not know? And, if the numbers are large enough -- as you happen to think -- why would you think Apple would not want to access that slice of the market?


To be fair, large pizza's make a lot of money, but Apple isn't selling those because, simply put, it's not part of their business model.  Question: do we really know that Apple would do this just to make money?  Isn't part of the Apple schtick that they make products *they* want to make, not the products they think consumers want?  I know I hear that from Apple and from Apple fans quite a bit (and I largely agree...though it's a bit of a flexible thing to say).  Which is it?  Because making products on the basis of consumer demand is what Samsung is accused of doing...yet "consumer demand" is nothing more than "buyers are buying" which is the same as, "we can make a load of money from this."  Which is it?  Will Apple make that phone when "the numbers are large enough"?  Does Apple build products based on their vision, or on consumer demand?  I'm not asking rhetorically.  I think the answer is a mix, but I usually hear comments on one extreme or another here, and both extremes are nearly always used to defend Apple's agenda (and they can't both be equally right)...either Apple builds what they damn well please, or they build what the market requests.  My main point is...I don't think Apple will NECESSARILY build a 5inch phone simply because they could make a load of money.  I also don't think Apple will necessarily avoid making one simply because it doesn't fit their vision.  I don't see Samsung making the Note 2 at a loss...so maybe the real argument is...how much money does a product need to make Apple for them to breach their lineup with a new product?

post #27 of 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by anantksundaram View Post

Do you seriously believe that Apple does not know? And, if the numbers are large enough -- as you happen to think -- why would you think Apple would not want to access that slice of the market?

I think Apple is doing internal research and also sees the evidence that large phones sell by looking at the broader market. As for why they haven't released one yet, I think it's because they limit themselves to certain screen size and resolution combinations to keep things easy for developers. Without that limitation I think they would already have released a larger iPhone. When they release the larger model that I do think they are building, they'll probably have to double the resolution of the iPhone's display. If they use a 2272x1280 5 inch panel, that phone will have a pixel density of 492 ppi. That density has been unattainable (at a reasonable cost) until recently, so Apple couldn't have released a larger phone without either breaking their doubled-pixels rule or dropping below Retina standards.
post #28 of 47

I have compared a larger screen Android phone to my iPhone 5.  The screen displays the same number of apps...app icons are spaced apart a little more and the text is nearly identical.

 

Web pages zoom in and out in almost identical text sizes.  The reader feature in safari makes reading a web story much easier than any Android larger screen.

 

other apps the text size is again nearly identical. 

 

The text lies on the screen may contain a few more words on each line but again the actual text size looks almost the same.

 

i just don't get this larger screen issue. I used larger Android screen for over two years and thought I would not be happy with the 4 inch iPhone 5 screen. 

 

Turns out there is little difference in text size and maybe more total information but where my eyes were focused I did not see any difference. 

post #29 of 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfc1138 View Post

I didn't do ANY "lumping" now did I?

 

Why not just buy an LTE iPad mini and go really "big"? 

 

I don't think you necessarily did any lumping, but lumping did seem implied.  Don't imply lumping.  If you lump, lump in the light.

 

Second...because the LTE iPad mini doesn't fit comfortably in one's jeans/pants/coat pocket, of course.  A five inch phone doesn't have to be "better"...it just has to be a viable solution for enough people to make Apple money.  It just might be, but I'm not holding my breath.

post #30 of 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by wakefinance View Post

I think Apple is doing internal research and also sees the evidence that large phones sell by looking at the broader market.

What evidence is that?

This thread points out that 5" and larger phones are just a couple percent of the market:
http://forums.appleinsider.com/t/156750/mid-sized-smartphones-like-apples-iphone-see-most-usage-phablets-a-fad-report

So where's all this evidence that larger phones are such a huge market that you and the other trolls keep claiming exists?
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post #31 of 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by gwmac View Post

 I certainly wouldn't not complain if it were 5" but I can at least understand that there are other possibilities than 4" or 5" or larger. 

 

That would make two people - you and Flavor Fav. Hardly a large market.

post #32 of 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by gwmac View Post

Once again it doesn't have to be 5" and certainly the iPad mini isn't an option. But there are a lot of choices in between 4" and 5". Most people that want a larger iPhone would be perfectly content with a phone between say 4.5 and 4.8". I certainly wouldn't not complain if it were 5" but I can at least understand that there are other possibilities than 4" or 5" or larger. 

Once you get used to a larger display it is very hard to go back to a smaller one. Even people that complain about problems with Android phones will put up with the irritation to keep that display. I had an HTC EVO which at the time was considered large at 4.3" but really is not much larger than my iPhone and even that tiny increase was really nice. I would bet my life Apple will make a larger iPhone, but I just can't wager a guess as to when that might be. This year seems doubtful but when they do it will be fun to see all the praise for the new iPhone and hear all the naysayers do an about face and hope the rest of us don't remember all the reasons why Apple won't ever do it. 

Still waiting for the evidence that most people prefer phones larger than the iPhone 5. Your preference doesn't constitute the market.

You and others keep saying that Apple is missing the boat by not offering a larger phone, yet you never seem to provide evidence. When pushed, you cite the fact that Samsung (and others) sell 5" and larger phones. When I pointed out that those phones make up only a tiny piece of the market, you wave your hands around and pretend that you didn't really mean 5", but meant something else entirely.

Again, please provide the evidence to back your claim that Apple is missing a significant part of the market.
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post #33 of 47
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Originally Posted by Sol77 View Post

I don't think you necessarily did any lumping, but lumping did seem implied.  Don't imply lumping.  If you lump, lump in the light.

Second...because the LTE iPad mini doesn't fit comfortably in one's jeans/pants/coat pocket, of course.  A five inch phone doesn't have to be "better"...it just has to be a viable solution for enough people to make Apple money.  It just might be, but I'm not holding my breath.

The evidence is that 5" phones are a tiny piece of the market.
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post #34 of 47
Seems this author doesn't know the industry particularly well. It's highly unlikely that Apple will compete in the "low-end smartphone market" but much more likely to compete in the mid-range market ($200-$400).

Also, the cost difference between a polycarbonate vs. aluminum body is not what will allow Apple to compete in emerging markets, that's simply a marketing decision to differentiate what will be the two tiers of Apple phones.

This is going to be a tough balance for Apple, because mid-range phones will soon feature quad core processors and 4.5" screens. Apple needs to differentiate between its two tiers, but also must be competitive with Android competitors.
post #35 of 47

According to Statcounter 1024x768 resolution is the second most common (after 320x480) for smartphones globally.   Apple needs to move with the market and the market is moving towards larger screens.  If the 5S screen is 4" (as expected) this is going to limit growth.

post #36 of 47
All these experts on larger screen models or not.... The proof is in the enormous numbers of Samsung big screens being sold in Asia. It will save their market share and business in the long run.
post #37 of 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by gwmac View Post

Not once will you ever see a post from me requesting an iPhone larger than 5". That is not to say I wouldn't be very happy with one, but I think 4.8" is the sweet spot.  That is the typical straw man argument you and others always resort to. You twist words and say or assume wanting a larger iPhone means wanting one 5" or larger. Once again and I hope you have your reading comprehension glasses on this time,  there is a slew of possibilities BETWEEN 4" and 5". Clear enough now? If you think I am alone or even in the minority you are delusional.

http://www.businessinsider.com/poll-would-you-buy-an-iphone-with-a-bigger-screen-2013-1



Screens of 5" and larger are about 2-3% of the market. So how big is the market for 4.8" phones? Please enlighten us.

And no one cares about your self-selected survey. It's totally meaningless. The way it's worded, the people who are happy with the current size are far less likely to respond than people who want a change.
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post #38 of 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta View Post


What evidence is that?

This thread points out that 5" and larger phones are just a couple percent of the market:
http://forums.appleinsider.com/t/156750/mid-sized-smartphones-like-apples-iphone-see-most-usage-phablets-a-fad-report

So where's all this evidence that larger phones are such a huge market that you and the other trolls keep claiming exists?

I used 5 inches as an example for my ppi calculation.  Not once did I say that 5" and larger were the most popular.  Larger phones, phones with screens between 4.5" and 4.9", are a large part of the market.  Every flagship Android model falls in that range, and those are the most popular phone models outside the iPhone.  Preemptively, that the iPhone is the most popular phone is not evidence that people prefer a 4" screen.

 

Please stop calling me a troll.  Link to a post of mine where I did any trolling.  You are the biggest troll on this site.

post #39 of 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta View Post


Still waiting for the evidence that most people prefer phones larger than the iPhone 5. Your preference doesn't constitute the market.

You and others keep saying that Apple is missing the boat by not offering a larger phone, yet you never seem to provide evidence. When pushed, you cite the fact that Samsung (and others) sell 5" and larger phones. When I pointed out that those phones make up only a tiny piece of the market, you wave your hands around and pretend that you didn't really mean 5", but meant something else entirely.

Again, please provide the evidence to back your claim that Apple is missing a significant part of the market.

 

Why don't you provide evidence to support your claim?  There is no logical reason to think that providing more choices would not result in more sales.  That's why Apple sells the iPhone 4, 4S, and 5 at one time!  If next year Apple sells the 4S, 5, 5S, and a new larger model, do you expect sales to decline?  You've claimed before that you're a businessman, but the way you argue against Apple releasing a larger iPhone shows me you have no business sense at all.

post #40 of 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta View Post


Screens of 5" and larger are about 2-3% of the market. So how big is the market for 4.8" phones? Please enlighten us.

And no one cares about your self-selected survey. It's totally meaningless. The way it's worded, the people who are happy with the current size are far less likely to respond than people who want a change.

 

You: I want evidence!!!!!!!!

 

gwmac: [evidence]

 

You: No, I wanted evidence that didn't support your point!!!!!!!!

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