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Rumor: iOS 7 to see significant overhaul, development running behind schedule - Page 2

post #41 of 84
I have always hated that kid & candy design. Hopefully JI will correct this. For me, Retina is good for reading, pix...
post #42 of 84
Quote:
Originally Posted by gwmac View Post

I am cautiously optimistic...
I expect 7 to be the biggest change to iOS since they added the app store.

 

That's your cautiously optimistic?

Citing unnamed sources with limited but direct knowledge of the rumoured device - Comedy Insider (Feb 2014)
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Citing unnamed sources with limited but direct knowledge of the rumoured device - Comedy Insider (Feb 2014)
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post #43 of 84
Quote:
Originally Posted by Apple ][ View Post

So, if Apple is moving away from rich-texture designs and is opting for simple, then what's the point of a retina display, if the OS won't be taking full advantage of it?

 

You don't need overblown textures to enjoy the benefits of a hi-DPI display. Icons, wallpapers, buttons, text, and colour accuracy will still enjoy the benefits of Retina.

Citing unnamed sources with limited but direct knowledge of the rumoured device - Comedy Insider (Feb 2014)
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Citing unnamed sources with limited but direct knowledge of the rumoured device - Comedy Insider (Feb 2014)
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post #44 of 84
Quote:
Originally Posted by khit View Post

iOS is very good OS. I hope Apple will add widgets in the next OS.

 

IMO, if you want widgets use Android.

Citing unnamed sources with limited but direct knowledge of the rumoured device - Comedy Insider (Feb 2014)
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Citing unnamed sources with limited but direct knowledge of the rumoured device - Comedy Insider (Feb 2014)
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post #45 of 84
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta View Post


So let's see if I can predict the FUD that's going to come from the usual trolls:

- Apple is incompetent since they are behind schedule.
- Apple will have bugs because they didn't take their time releasing it.

- Apple is arbitrarily changing the UI and confusing users.
- Apple's UI is stale and needs to be changed.

There will be 100 other self-contradictory complaints, but I'm to tired to write them all down.

Why waste your energy and our time with comments like this? There will always be trolls, just try to ignore them.

Citing unnamed sources with limited but direct knowledge of the rumoured device - Comedy Insider (Feb 2014)
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Citing unnamed sources with limited but direct knowledge of the rumoured device - Comedy Insider (Feb 2014)
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post #46 of 84
Quote:
Originally Posted by smalM View Post

Doesn't Apple have enough money to hire some more good engineers?

 

9 women can't make a baby in 1 month.

Citing unnamed sources with limited but direct knowledge of the rumoured device - Comedy Insider (Feb 2014)
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Citing unnamed sources with limited but direct knowledge of the rumoured device - Comedy Insider (Feb 2014)
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post #47 of 84
ho hmmm
post #48 of 84
Quote:
Originally Posted by kevt View Post

Delay in iOS 7 may prove costly.

Costly in the short run?

Citing unnamed sources with limited but direct knowledge of the rumoured device - Comedy Insider (Feb 2014)
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Citing unnamed sources with limited but direct knowledge of the rumoured device - Comedy Insider (Feb 2014)
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post #49 of 84
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffreytgilbert View Post

I don't trust the team who put together launch pad and stacks and finder to build a better iOS. Sorry if that breaks your fan club rules. Not a fan.

 

Your comment is factually inaccurate.

Citing unnamed sources with limited but direct knowledge of the rumoured device - Comedy Insider (Feb 2014)
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Citing unnamed sources with limited but direct knowledge of the rumoured device - Comedy Insider (Feb 2014)
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post #50 of 84

Scaling back on textures and glitz does not require rigorous testing, and I think that's all this rumor adds up to. New features and under the hood improvements are what need rigorous testing. These delays are more likely to be from rewriting iOS in assembly than from a few UI tweaks.

 

Cash907 View Post

And my only complaint with iOS is that last part you mentioned: It's stale. Not the UI, the OS itself and it's functionality. There is a lot that Android clearly wins at when it comes to innovation, and I would really like to see Apple try some new things and shake it up a bit. You know what I miss about the early days of the iPhone? That "wow" factor. When you pulled one out in public, people instantly cluttered around it because it looked like nothing else out there. The same goes for products like the original iPod, the iPad, heck even the iMac. A friend of mine who works for AT&T corporate has been field testing the new HTC One, and he gets the same reactions when using it in public that I used to with my iPhone. People are excited, ask questions, want to try using it. I don't think Apple has seen anything like that since the 4 was released, and that's sad.

Google is patenting a method to reduce that 'wow' factor when trying to save battery life, because a dead phone has no wow at all. But I think you have highlighted the fundamentally different approach Apple takes to phones: other companies make phones to be sold, whereas Apple makes phones to be used. HTC can make one that looks interesting, but can it demonstrate a richer user experience over the course of a two year contract? You'd better hope so, because it's likely never getting the next Android update and feature set.

 

jeffreytgilbert View Post
I don't trust the team who put together launch pad and stacks and finder to build a better iOS. Sorry if that breaks your fan club rules. Not a fan.

A fine pre-emptive defensive, but it's all personal preference, and flaming torches are typically discouraged here. I don't trust the team who built IE8, Vista, and Surface to build a phone OS, but that's my personal preference, forced onto no one.

 

macapptraining View Post
A universal UI needs to be implemented between iOS and OS X. Hopefully sooner than later. This will surely benefit new Apple customers with ease of use and familiarity between the iOS devices and Macs.

No thanks. I have no desire to revisit the "Windows everywhere" ethos that brought us Windows Mobile, with its stylus-driven start menu and pulldown menus. Ditto for Windows 8 and its Launchpad/WP8 layer.

 

Ireland View Post
gwmac View Post
I am cautiously optimistic...
I expect 7 to be the biggest change to iOS since they added the app store.

That's your cautiously optimistic?

 Makes sense to me. They are two different types of statement. "Here's what I expect, and this is how I feel about it."

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post #51 of 84
Ireland View Post
kevt View Post
Delay in iOS 7 may prove costly.

Costly in the short run?

 

Only costly to tech bloggers whose job depends on having something new and flashy to write about every week. That's why Apple doesn't seem to get a fair shake in the media: they take time to make real products, instead of going the droid route of a hundred phone models per year with slightly tweaked and mostly impractical features.

 

But the Apple-centric press is always hungry too, so we get mostly rumors and reactions to the general tech press; Cult of Mac has almost gone fully to sponsored accessory reviews, with the occasional quality Elgan piece.

 

Compare it to JCP's recently failed experiment to give you reasonable, rarely-fluctuating prices every day, breaking from the clothing retail world of sales, coupons, doorbusters, and messy piles of clearance. Turns out the general populace prefers the mess, and paying $35 for Levis (originally 65 marked down to 40 this week with a $5 off coupon today only!) versus JCP having them for $30 every day as is. Because they're saving.

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post #52 of 84
I just hope after all the 'flattening' and 'simplification' Apple keep those cute cog wheels that turn during an iOS update. I love them 1smile.gif

On a more serious note, I wonder why Apple doesn't offer two choices for the GUI in general settings ... a) Simple or b) Skeuomorphic and let the user decide.
Been using Apple since Apple ][ - Long on AAPL so biased
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Been using Apple since Apple ][ - Long on AAPL so biased
nMac Pro 6 Core, MacBookPro i7, MacBookPro i5, iPhones 5 and 5s, iPad Air, 2013 Mac mini, SE30, IIFx, Towers; G4 & G3.
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post #53 of 84
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ireland View Post

 

9 women can't make a baby in 1 month.


Yes, but 9 women can make 9 babies in 9 months.

na na na na na...
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post #54 of 84
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ireland View Post

9 women can't make a baby in 1 month.

Quote:
Originally Posted by island hermit View Post


Yes, but 9 women can make 9 babies in 9 months.

Which doesn't help with getting that one baby (iOS 7) out the door sooner.
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Gatorguy 5/31/13
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post #55 of 84
Quote:
Originally Posted by Apple ][ View Post

So, if Apple is moving away from rich-texture designs and is opting for simple, then what's the point of a retina display, if the OS won't be taking full advantage of it?

I almost fell out of my chair when I read that. You believe rich-textures are "taking full advantage of a retina display"? Typography, clean lines (even on an angle) does not look noticeably better on a retina display to you? Just play Letter Press - it's a perfect example of how a clean design really shines on a high resolution display. Don't forget about digital photos, detailed technical drawings, etc.

post #56 of 84
Quote:
Originally Posted by igriv View Post

 

What media hype?

Did a google news search and am already seeing headlines about massive changes coming to iOS 7.

 

speaking of google, how come there seems to be no discussion about their news search being f'd up. If you do a search by date vs relevance it doesn't list things in order.  I could see something from 10 hours ago right next to something from 10 minutes ago.  Been that way for over a week now.

post #57 of 84
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta View Post



Which doesn't help with getting that one baby (iOS 7) out the door sooner.


Eventually, down the road, it will. Everything will come out much sooner because the team won't be stretched so thin and projects will get completed on time.

 

Of course, if nobody has a clue what they are doing then nothing will get done.

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post #58 of 84
Rogifan View Post

speaking of google, how come there seems to be no discussion about their news search being f'd up. If you do a search by date vs relevance it doesn't list things in order.  I could see something from 10 hours ago right next to something from 10 minutes ago.  Been that way for over a week now.

 

I think they have a disclaimer that news is sorted by when it's "added to Google's index."

But my Google results have generally been getting worse lately, since it tries to incorporate more 'close enough' results, synonyms of my search terms. Last week I searched for stuff related to TPAC (the Topeka Performing Arts Center) and most of the results were about Tupac Shakur.

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post #59 of 84
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vorsos View Post

I think they have a disclaimer that news is sorted by when it's "added to Google's index."
But my Google results have generally been getting worse lately, since it tries to incorporate more 'close enough' results, synonyms of my search terms. Last week I searched for stuff related to TPAC (the Topeka Performing Arts Center) and most of the results were about Tupac Shakur.

I agree. I'm getting tired of carefully crafting search terms and then having it deliver a page that's not even close - and often doesn't even contain some of the terms I provided.

What happened to searching for what I ask for?

Unfortunately, Bing is only slightly better in this regard.
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post #60 of 84
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogifan View Post

You forgot:

- Apple is just copying Halo and Metro

It's Holo, not Halo.

 

http://developer.android.com/design/style/themes.html

post #61 of 84
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vorsos View Post

Scaling back on textures and glitz does not require rigorous testing, and I think that's all this rumor adds up to. New features and under the hood improvements are what need rigorous testing. These delays are more likely to be from rewriting iOS in assembly than from a few UI tweaks.

 

Instead of rewriting in assembly they would be better served using their existing Objective C (and C) experience to write the OS, and use the compiler team to generate the assembly. Would be faster and produce faster code.

 

I do think that iOS 7 is a big rewrite, under the hood iOS 6 had very little, and the features ( Maps, Passbook, even the phone stuff) were all teams which sat on top of the OS. The API churn was the least ever.

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post #62 of 84
Ok, I can accept OS X 10.9 being late for this.
post #63 of 84
Quote:
Originally Posted by Slurpy View Post

 

I don't think you understand how development works. It's not like every person added wil automatically make the job faster. Every extra person adds inefficiency. You can't just hire willy nilly when you're in a crunch. A balance has to be made, and I think one of Apple's greatest strengths has always been smaller teams, which lessens bearaucracy and increases the pace of progress with decisions made quicker and with a more united team. 

 

Rationalizations aside, didn't Apple run into the same lack of resources problem before with previous versions of iOS?  What did Apple learn from that previous experience, and what are they doing now to address the issue and prevent it from happening again in the future? Does Apple even think it needs to be addressed?

 

And what about the public perception that Apple creates by pulling development away from Mac OS?  Didn't that also create a lot of internal conflict within Apple during Forstall's days?


Edited by Haggar - 4/3/13 at 9:56am
post #64 of 84

A redesign of iOS UI is not a redesign of iOS. I expect iOS and OS X to merge much of their functionality, though not soon -- too difficult and the hardware has not been developed. Keeping the API the same as more functionality is added is far easier than changing the UI since that MUST impact the look and feel of all applications. Apple certainly does not want to double the size of the UI API to accommodate older apps. 

 

Apple certainly does not want to make the same mistakes as Microsoft whose OS still maintains backward compatibility with DOS from the 1980s, and Windows from the early 1990s. Tricky problems, solutions of which will not make everybody happy. 

post #65 of 84
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vorsos View Post

 

I think they have a disclaimer that news is sorted by when it's "added to Google's index."

But my Google results have generally been getting worse lately, since it tries to incorporate more 'close enough' results, synonyms of my search terms. Last week I searched for stuff related to TPAC (the Topeka Performing Arts Center) and most of the results were about Tupac Shakur.

Prior to a week or two ago when I would do a google news search and sort by date it would sort based on how recently something was added.  When I do a search right now the first item I see is 2 hours old and 8th item is 1 minute old.

post #66 of 84
That it's behind is actually a good news since it shows how much work they are putting on it. Some people said iOS7 wouldn't be redesigned. They were wrong. I can't wait, never been so excited about a redesign since Leopard.
post #67 of 84

Everyone is correct that throwing more people at something doesn't help, at least if they're new people.  It takes longer to get them integrated into the project than it does for oldtimers to just do the work themselves.  

 

So no, hiring more people now would not help immediately.  (It'd be good for the future.)

 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Haggar View Post

Rationalizations aside, didn't Apple run into the same lack of resources problem before with previous versions of iOS?  What did Apple learn from that previous experience, and what are they doing now to address the issue and prevent it from happening again in the future? Does Apple even think it needs to be addressed?

 

In the past, when Apple has been asked why they pull people from one major project to work on another, Apple has replied that they like operating like a startup... lean and mean.  (Also known as being cheap and overworking people.)

 

This concept, plus the way that many companies operate these days (as if developers are interchangeable parts) seems to be some kind of mistaken managerial fantasy, if you ask me.

 

Some intermix of projects is good, but whenever you shift people around from their own projects, things get lost in the shuffle, like deep testing of New Year's Day calendar problems.   At least, this is what I've seen in my 30+ years of experience at companies big and small.

post #68 of 84
Quote:
Originally Posted by Apple ][ View Post

So, if Apple is moving away from rich-texture designs and is opting for simple, then what's the point of a retina display, if the OS won't be taking full advantage of it? I'm not sure what I think of this new direction, but I guess that we'll know soon enough.

 

As for OS X and iOS, I hope that an OS X user sitting on a Mac Pro is not using an iOS desktop in the future. As for me, I haven't upgraded past Snow Leopard yet, and it's not because I don't have 19 dollars.


You are mistaking flat textures with removal of textures altogether. Android is pretty flat, yet it's full of textures. And anyway, even a line looks better (sharper) on retina than on a low res screen.
I'd love to see an OS with white and grey textures.

post #69 of 84
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vorsos View Post

Scaling back on textures and glitz does not require rigorous testing, and I think that's all this rumor adds up to. New features and under the hood improvements are what need rigorous testing. These delays are more likely to be from rewriting iOS in assembly than from a few UI tweaks.


They aren't just switching textures obviously, so they need to test the OS. They'll obviously add new features too so that people won't complain.

post #70 of 84

Apple could just make everyone happy and make iOS theme-able. Then you could choose a flat look, the current look, or even a dark look, or whatever. I don't get why Apple holds the user hostage in the personalization department. Things can be theme-able without ruining consistency and nature of the UI.

post #71 of 84
I hope removing bitmaps for all that skeuomorphic crap will reduce memory use and CPU waste. I hope they decide to work on efficiency on existing hardware. As is, ios updates being free has been cool but really just a way to encourage people to buy new devices, as each successive ios version is slower and more bloated and make existing devices feel like crap, instead of the fantastic user experience they provided previously.
post #72 of 84

The problem with Themes. 

 

You lose your brand

Ugly themes come to be seen as the norm

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post #73 of 84
Quote:
Originally Posted by ruel24 View Post

Apple could just make everyone happy and make iOS theme-able. Then you could choose a flat look, the current look, or even a dark look, or whatever. I don't get why Apple holds the user hostage in the personalization department. Things can be theme-able without ruining consistency and nature of the UI.

No, not really. Plus, it's bloat just to make such a feature. It serves no purpose but for geeks that like to customize to ridiculous levels. All such experiences I've had with other product, such skinning leads to slow GUI responsiveness, poor functionality, bloated memory and storage requirements and tons of needless complexity for bugs to appear.
post #74 of 84

My vote, as far as customization is concerned, is for the default window UI elements to be hardware color coded. Black iPhones get black window dressing, white ones get white. The stock Music app (iOS 6) is a good way to see both right now, with a white browser and black 'now playing' area.

Apple already made the iOS 6 toolbar color change to match the current app's window UI color. They aren't completely averse to my suggested level of... modifiable consistency.

 

 

asdasd View Post
Vorsos View Post

These delays are more likely to be from rewriting iOS in assembly than from a few UI tweaks.

Instead of rewriting in assembly they would be better served using their existing Objective C (and C) experience to write the OS, and use the compiler team to generate the assembly. Would be faster and produce faster code.

I know; my assembly example was facetiousness. As in, "These delays are more likely to be from adding a Start menu than from a few UI tweaks."

 
Haggar View Post
  And what about the public perception that Apple creates by pulling development away from Mac OS?  Didn't that also create a lot of internal conflict within Apple during Forstall's days?

I assume that the reorganization that followed Forstall's departure (hardware, software, online services) eases such frequent developer shuffling. That said, I prefer the idea of individuals being intimately familiar with one product's codebase; we would have fewer "overhauls" of iLife and other apps.

 

ruel24 View Post

Apple could just make everyone happy and make iOS theme-able. Then you could choose a flat look, the current look, or even a dark look, or whatever. I don't get why Apple holds the user hostage in the personalization department. Things can be theme-able without ruining consistency and nature of the UI.

asdasd View Post

Ugly themes come to be seen as the norm

Exactly. You might end up with one or two half-decent themes, but the first two theme-able apps I can recall are Firefox and Winamp; I'll bet over 95% of all their themes are just a single giant image that spans the UI. I haven't browsed the iOS jailbreak scene, but does it have any standout themes?

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post #75 of 84
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vorsos View Post

 

Exactly. You might end up with one or two half-decent themes, but the first two theme-able apps I can recall are Firefox and Winamp; I'll bet over 95% of all their themes are just a single giant image that spans the UI. I haven't browsed the iOS jailbreak scene, but does it have any standout themes?

Reading here

http://www.saurik.com/id/9

 

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder

http://www.gottabemobile.com/2013/02/08/best-cydia-themes-winterboard-ios-6/

post #76 of 84
Quote:
Originally Posted by macapptraining View Post

A universal UI needs to be implemented between iOS and OS X. Hopefully sooner than later. This will surely benefit new Apple customers with ease of use and familiarity between the iOS devices and Macs. The experience is too messy right now. Do it right though, Apple, even it if takes time.
post #77 of 84
No! This is the mistake MS made with Windows 8. The mouse or touchpad-driven interface that is so powerful for a vertical monitor is vastly inefficient for a horizontal, touch-driven hand-held device, and vice-versa.
post #78 of 84
Quote:
Originally Posted by smalM View Post

Doesn't Apple have enough money to hire some more good engineers?

There is a shortage of really good engineers. It's not just a matter of money. Imaginative types don't grow on trees. If only more business types could get that. Then again what can you say about a world built on Office and similar stuff.

 

philip

post #79 of 84
Quote:
Originally Posted by pmcd View Post

There is a shortage of really good engineers. It's not just a matter of money. Imaginative types don't grow on trees. If only more business types could get that. Then again what can you say about a world built on Office and similar stuff.

 

I think there's a shortage of young engineers, but especially with all the layoffs the past few years, there are lots of very good, experienced engineers available.

 

It's just that companies don't like to hire 50 and 60 year olds.   Companies call them "over qualified".

post #80 of 84
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vorsos View Post

Exactly. You might end up with one or two half-decent themes, but the first two theme-able apps I can recall are Firefox and Winamp; I'll bet over 95% of all their themes are just a single giant image that spans the UI. I haven't browsed the iOS jailbreak scene, but does it have any standout themes?

No, Apple could offer them through the App Store and approve of them. I understand that extreme themes are bad...very bad. I shudder when looking at some of those Windows Blinds themes. However, with Apple approved themes one could run with an opaque look, a translucent look, flat icons, marble icons, realistic icons, and whatever, while still being tasteful. I was looking at some themes on Android and some of them look really nice. There is an Oxygen theme, based on KDE Oxygen in Linux, that blew me away. However, they're tied to certain launcher apps and launcher apps, IMO, change the entire UI and are bad for the device.

Another poster posted that themes kill the brand, but I disagree. Us that use KDE in Linux know all about themes and no matter how much you theme KDE, you still know its KDE. It doesn't lose its branding. Themes are not all that heavy on resources, either, since the themes merely replace the resources to build the stock theme with something else. In iOS it would merely be a change in the background, iconset, and maybe a couple elements like the scroll bar or whatever. How many wasted resources could that possibly be?


Edited by ruel24 - 4/3/13 at 8:02pm
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