or Connect
AppleInsider › Forums › Mac Hardware › Future Apple Hardware › Fingerprint scanning tech predicted to be major component of Apple's 'iPhone 5S' & 'iWatch'
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

Fingerprint scanning tech predicted to be major component of Apple's 'iPhone 5S' & 'iWatch'

post #1 of 34
Thread Starter 
Rumors of a secure fingerprint scanner in Apple's anticipated "iPhone 5S" continue to surface, with one new report claiming the feature will also appear in an Apple "iWatch."

Analyst Brian White of Topeka Capital Markets believes both the "iPhone 5S" and so-called "iWatch" will include fingerprint identification technology after meeting with a component supplier in a tour of China and Taiwan. He revealed the details of his meetings in a research note to investors that was provided to AppleInsider.



Apple's alleged fingerprint scanner will be used for "essential security purposes," he said. He expects its appearance will open up other opportunities for Apple, specifically the ability to enable credit card payments.

White compared Apple's alleged fingerprint scanning technology to Siri, the defining feature of the iPhone 4S when it launched in 2011. He believes a secure fingerprint reader will be the main selling point of an "iPhone 5S," which he expects will launch in July.

Beyond the next iPhone, White believes Apple's fingerprint scanning technology will come to other devices from the company, namely an "iWatch" wrist accessory that he expects will launch this year. In his tour, he found "early signs of movement in the supply chain," signaling Apple could be ramping up to produce such a device.

He also suggested in a separate note issued on Wednesday that an "iWatch" could play an important part with an Apple television set. White also gave details on a supposed "iRing" that would be worn on a user's finger and would aid in detecting motion controls with an Apple television.

Speculation of Apple's interest in secure fingerprint scanners has been driven by the company's acquisition of AuthenTec last year for $356 million. That company made a "Smart Sensor" component that could embed fingerprint readers underneath a touchscreen display.

Fingerprint


Rumors of a fingerprint reader in an "iPhone 5S" gained steam earlier this year, when analyst Ming-Chi Kuo of KGI Securities said Apple plans to include one embedded under the device's home button. Kuo has a strong track record in predicting Apple's future product pipeline ??in particular, he accurately predicted the company's entire fall lineup last year.

According to Kuo, the new fingerprint scanner would allow Apple to replace the user of usernames and passwords, giving users the ability to authenticate in a more efficient manner. He also expects the scanner will integrate with applications such as Passbook to enhance their functionality.
post #2 of 34
If the iPhone 5S does have a fingerprint scanner I might retire my iPhone 4S. If not I'll probably await the redesigned (hopefully) iPhone 6.
iPad, Macbook Pro, iPhone, heck I even have iLife! :-)
Reply
iPad, Macbook Pro, iPhone, heck I even have iLife! :-)
Reply
post #3 of 34

I have a couple problems with this purported solution to FP scanning.

1. not everyone uses the same finger every time to press the home button...or the same hand every time for that matter.  So the scanner would have to identify all 10 of your fingers on initial setup.

2. the home button is not the same size as most people's fingers, sometimes you press it with the tip of your finger, sometimes the center.  No one presses it in the same spot every time.

3. sometimes if my phone or iPad is lying on my desk and i want to check the time or see the home screen, I do one of two things: press the home button or press the power button on the top.

4. this doesn't seem like an invisible tech.  to me it would have to be instant that it scans and we all know scanning tech is slow.  If you want to unlock your phone quickly and within a reasonable amount of time, this is not a good solution.

 

How do you overcome this?  I have no idea, but it doesn't sound like a reliable solution to security.  Heck, the slide to unlock works about 90% of the time for me.  Maybe my fingers are too callused to register on the touch screen?

 

Point is, something that should be an almost invisible tech should not have such complications, especially from a company like Apple.

post #4 of 34
Quote:
Originally Posted by antkm1 View Post

I have a couple problems with this purported solution to FP scanning.

1. not everyone uses the same finger every time to press the home button...or the same hand every time for that matter.  So the scanner would have to identify all 10 of your fingers on initial setup.

2. the home button is not the same size as most people's fingers, sometimes you press it with the tip of your finger, sometimes the center.  No one presses it in the same spot every time.

3. sometimes if my phone or iPad is lying on my desk and i want to check the time or see the home screen, I do one of two things: press the home button or press the power button on the top.

4. this doesn't seem like an invisible tech.  to me it would have to be instant that it scans and we all know scanning tech is slow.  If you want to unlock your phone quickly and within a reasonable amount of time, this is not a good solution.

 

How do you overcome this?  I have no idea, but it doesn't sound like a reliable solution to security.  Heck, the slide to unlock works about 90% of the time for me.  Maybe my fingers are too callused to register on the touch screen?

 

Point is, something that should be an almost invisible tech should not have such complications, especially from a company like Apple.

 

You're assuming that the scanner is under the home button when there is no reason to do so.  Also, they will probably let you pick which finger you use in that if they didn't, huge numbers of people couldn't use the phone.  

post #5 of 34
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gazoobee View Post

 

You're assuming that the scanner is under the home button when there is no reason to do so.  Also, they will probably let you pick which finger you use in that if they didn't, huge numbers of people couldn't use the phone.  

you miss my point, in that not everyone uses the same finger all the time to unlock their phones.  For this to be a reliable and invisible tech...meaning is just works...requiring a only one finger to unlock the phone is not a good solution.

 

Also, the article does state that the FP scanner would be under the home button:

 

 

Quote:
...analyst Ming-Chi Kuo of KGI Securities said Apple plans to include one embedded under the device's home button...
post #6 of 34
Hopefully this will me the end of passwords on the iPhone. I have some really long passwords (for banking etc.) that have number and punctuation in them. On the small iPhone screen it can a while to enter and multiple tries.getting rid of passwords would make my phone sooo much easier to use.
post #7 of 34
Just to add a little color to the usefulness of a finger print scanner on the iWatch.

It should be understood that not only will an iwatch an iPhone pair with each other, but multiple iWatches and/or iPhones will pair with each other.

Two specific benefit of this is family situations and security.

The obvious one is security from loss and theft of device. If iPhone and iWatch move away greater than 10 ft you get vibration. If iPhone and iWatch move away greater than 30 yards you get alarm. In addition, multiple watches and multiple phones can be set to respond to different distances say for kids iWatches if child moves greater than 20 feet away vibration and 50 feet alarm etc.

For older kids, fingerprint scanners on iWatches can confirm device and specific child location. A teenager may be promoted on iWatch every 30 minutes to touch finger to watch screen with a vibration. Once touched, the watch will confirm his/her location and that they are actually at that location.

The finger print scanner and recent purchase of in building location should give you a sense of some of the features to come. Trust me, the iWatch will be a bigger success than the iPad and will Cary equally good margins and profitability. The is the next big thing. You all are going to love it.
post #8 of 34
Quote:
If the iPhone 5S does have a fingerprint scanner I might retire my iPhone 4S. If not I'll probably await the redesigned (hopefully) iPhone 6.

Me too. Same.

post #9 of 34

It's so funny that a lower end iPhone and a 5S are seen as facts now... so the stock can drop when they don't release them on june.

 

http://blogs.wsj.com/digits/2013/04/02/what-we-now-know-about-apples-new-iphones/?mod=e2tw

post #10 of 34
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post

Rumors of a secure fingerprint scanner in Apple's anticipated "iPhone 5S" continue to surface, with one new report claiming the feature will also appear in an Apple "iWatch."

Analyst Brian White of Topeka Capital Markets believes both the "iPhone 5S" and so-called "iWatch" will include fingerprint identification technology after meeting with a component supplier in a tour of China and Taiwan. He revealed the details of his meetings in a research note to investors that was provided to AppleInsider.

Brian White is only a step up from Digitimes. A very small step.

If Apple were to implement fingerprint scanning, it would not be called the iPhone 5S. That's far too large of a change for the 's' designation.
Quote:
Originally Posted by antkm1 View Post

you miss my point, in that not everyone uses the same finger all the time to unlock their phones.  For this to be a reliable and invisible tech...meaning is just works...requiring a only one finger to unlock the phone is not a good solution.

Easy enough to fix. My laptop has fingerprint scanning and you can program as many fingers as you want. IIRC, you're required to program 3 by default.

However, I think you're underestimating the number of people who always use the same finger for scanning. I sure do - and suspect that others do, as well.
"I'm way over my head when it comes to technical issues like this"
Gatorguy 5/31/13
Reply
"I'm way over my head when it comes to technical issues like this"
Gatorguy 5/31/13
Reply
post #11 of 34

I have a hard time believing this would end up being a major differentiation for the iPhone 5s unless it ended up being part of a mobile payment strategy.  But then again, if the pattern of iPhone 4 --> iPhone 4s is expected to roughly repeat, we shouldn't see much focus on hardware and most changes coming on the iOS side (e.g. Siri only available on the 4s)

post #12 of 34
Quote:
Originally Posted by applesupertramp View Post

It should be understood that not only might the rumored iwatch and an iPhone pair with each other, but multiple iWatches and/or iPhones could possibly pair with each other.

 

Fixed that for you.

post #13 of 34
Quote:
Originally Posted by antkm1 View Post

you miss my point, in that not everyone uses the same finger all the time to unlock their phones.  For this to be a reliable and invisible tech...meaning is just works...requiring a only one finger to unlock the phone is not a good solution.

 

Also, the article does state that the FP scanner would be under the home button:

 

 

 

Yes, but for the same reasons you originally mentioned, the home button would be an awful location for the scanner if it could instead be placed under the screen.  Then, when you turn on the phone, instead of presenting you with "swipe to open" it could instead present a scanner for whatever finger (or fingers) you've set up as security.  

 

The company they recently bought had just invented a new technology that allowed fingerprint scanners to be integrated into a normal LCD screen, so I continue to hope that this is the solution Apple will go for.  

 

If, as most people think, it's going to be under the home button, then I see all the same problems you do and more.  A tiny fingerprint scanner under the home button would be essentially an identical solution to all the other fingerprint scanners out there, not useful for all users and therefore (IMO of course) just another "gimmick" at that stage. 

post #14 of 34
Quote:
Originally Posted by antkm1 View Post

...not everyone uses the same finger all the time to unlock their phones..

 

Why do you assume Apple would require everyone to use the same finger all of the time? Apple has smart people and if they release this technology you can be sure they will have thought of things like that.

post #15 of 34

Wow. Soon everyone will have their fingerprints available to the public. Hackers will have fun.

 

Soon sites like Facebook will require one's fingerprints to access. I'm sure the CIA can't wait for this to happen.

 

I imagine more "lost fingers" in the underworld realm.

post #16 of 34
Quote:
Originally Posted by antkm1 View Post

I have a couple problems with this purported solution to FP scanning.

1. not everyone uses the same finger every time to press the home button...or the same hand every time for that matter.  So the scanner would have to identify all 10 of your fingers on initial setup.

2. the home button is not the same size as most people's fingers, sometimes you press it with the tip of your finger, sometimes the center.  No one presses it in the same spot every time.

3. sometimes if my phone or iPad is lying on my desk and i want to check the time or see the home screen, I do one of two things: press the home button or press the power button on the top.

4. this doesn't seem like an invisible tech.  to me it would have to be instant that it scans and we all know scanning tech is slow.  If you want to unlock your phone quickly and within a reasonable amount of time, this is not a good solution.

 

How do you overcome this?  I have no idea, but it doesn't sound like a reliable solution to security.  Heck, the slide to unlock works about 90% of the time for me.  Maybe my fingers are too callused to register on the touch screen?

 

Point is, something that should be an almost invisible tech should not have such complications, especially from a company like Apple.

Kinda simple solution if you think about it.

A Section in the Settings that says "Use Fingerprint Security" with an ON and OFF setting. Setting it to OFF will solve your problems.

And I would assume Home Screen activation would be still be by pressing with home or power. FPR would only be need to unlock the device or perform some functions in Apps

 

I hope Apple call the next one the iPhone 5X, just to mess with the press and predictions. 

post #17 of 34
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gazoobee View Post

 

You're assuming that the scanner is under the home button when there is no reason to do so.

 

The only button on the front and there's no reason to put finger scanner there (under it)? Press button to turn on display, keep finger on button, the UI let's you know your finger is being scanned and boom your phone is unlocked simply and never accidentally. Pressing the button indicates to the iDevice "I wish to unlock you", so said devices looks for finger print presence if the feature is ON. I think this is more than a good reason to do so. And it would be very Apple method.

 

My only doubt is if all this is technically possible in a iPhone this year or the next. I have my doubts, but want Apple to prove me wrong.

Citing unnamed sources with limited but direct knowledge of the rumoured device - Comedy Insider (Feb 2014)
Reply
Citing unnamed sources with limited but direct knowledge of the rumoured device - Comedy Insider (Feb 2014)
Reply
post #18 of 34

Save time from having to put passlock code all the time

post #19 of 34

Color me skeptical but interested regarding finger print tech.

 

To me the obvious solution is RFID tages. Next to these 'smart phones' one of the more expensive items people own and use every day are automobiles and their wallets(credit cards etc).

Car access is simply by a physical key or keyfob(RFID tag) controlled by the owner.

 

For me-  that is the solution I would prefer. 99% of the places I go I have my car keys and wallet in close proximity. Just let me use an RFID tag in my key chain or in my wallet. The other 1% Ill type a password.  If its good enough for a $20k car.. its good enough for $500 phone.

 

iWatch integration... IMO IF there is an iWatch, it seems it would more an accessory,  not a 'main feature' of the "i" ecosystem. IMO it would be a 'hobby'.  I would like to have one when I excercise... thats about it. 

 

Gesssh I'm becoming an old fuddy duddy.1frown.gif

Hokey religions and ancient weapons are no match for a good blaster by your side, kid.
Reply
Hokey religions and ancient weapons are no match for a good blaster by your side, kid.
Reply
post #20 of 34
I think too many people are assuming this will be built into the Home button. Note that the company Apple acquired focuses on an actual display based fingerprint scanner. This reminds me of one of the first apps for 'iPhone OS' back in 2007, a fake fingerprint scanner. (Followed by various bubbly pop apps!). Anyway, it is possible Apple will discard the Home button altogether one day and the screen will be used to unlock the phone. (I have a Nexus 4, and there are already multiple unlock options, face recognition included, that does work, but of course can be overridden using a photo!)

They need to deal with gloves too.

The best security system ever is eye prints that use the blood vessels at the rear of the eye. Such a system would be a lot more reliable and less of a hassle.
post #21 of 34
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta View Post

If Apple were to implement fingerprint scanning, it would not be called the iPhone 5S. That's far too large of a change for the 's' designation.
 

 

Not if it looks exactly like an iPhone 5.

[drumroll]

Introducing the new iPhone 5S.  The S is for "Security".

post #22 of 34

"The best security system ever is eye prints that use the blood vessels at the rear of the eye. Such a system would be a lot more reliable and less of a hassle."

 

Until you're wearing glasses or, worse yet, sunglasses. Then eye scanning is a pain in the butt.

 

I'm already going to touch my phone to unlock it: staring into the special scanning camera having had to take my glasses off? Notsomuch.

post #23 of 34
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ireland View Post

 

The only button on the front and there's no reason to put finger scanner there (under it)? Press button to turn on display, keep finger on button, the UI let's you know your finger is being scanned and boom your phone is unlocked simply and never accidentally. Pressing the button indicates to the iDevice "I wish to unlock you", so said devices looks for finger print presence if the feature is ON. I think this is more than a good reason to do so. And it would be very Apple method.

 

My only doubt is if all this is technically possible in a iPhone this year or the next. I have my doubts, but want Apple to prove me wrong.

 

Possibly.  No one really knows what they are going to do.  

 

If they do it the way you suggest however, that would mean changing the function of the home button substantially.  

 

For instance if you have to lay your finger on the button as described to be scanned, then that changes the action from "pressing the button" to "holding your finger on the button but not pressing it."  Even if they allow for pressing, it becomes necessary to change it from a press to a long press (recognition takes significant time).  Additionally, if you need to identify yourself for some other purpose while the phone is in use, then it's a "long press" again, and the long press has already been assigned to Siri, so Siri has to be enabled a different way.  Likewise, the double press, and the triple press are already in use for significant functions not related to authentication.  

 

Fingerprint scanners work best when it's a separate sensor that you lay your finger on that isn't itself a button per se.  This is the way they have generally been implemented in the past.  Adding a little blobby scanning pad somewhere on the phone doesn't strike me as a good solution for Apple though.  

 

IMO integration into the screen is still the best way to go and a more Apple-esque solution than any other, but who knows?  WE don't even know for sure that they are even thinking of adding fingerprint scanning to the iPhone at all.  Everything is speculation at this point. 

post #24 of 34
Quote:
Originally Posted by chabig View Post

Why do you assume Apple would require everyone to use the same finger all of the time? Apple has smart people and if they release this technology you can be sure they will have thought of things like that.
I assume the opposite of that if you read my comments from the top. and i assume the scanner is in the ome button because thats what the article states. Do any of you read the article or just the headline and skip straight to the comments? I'm only reacting to what was stated, not where I think the best place would be.
Edited by antkm1 - 4/3/13 at 12:31pm
post #25 of 34
Wow, fingerprint scanner. Reminds me of the Lenovo notebook my company gave me in 2005.... The first year it worked great, then got less and less reliable (requiring multiple attempts before using a code word), until I ended up just disabling it permanently. Even if it works on the 3rd try or after washing your hands or polishing it to get the dust off, it still pretty much always took longer than using a pin code.

I know that Apple will probably make a better mobile fingerprint scanner than any other company has, but adding a largely redundant system to the iPhone seems very un-apple to me.

On the Lenovo, the scanner was about 2cmx.5cm and the fingerprint was given by swiping my index finger across it. Doing so on a telephone with the scanner under the home button would require holding the phone in one hand and swiping with the other - one handed swiping while holding the phone in the same hand is just awkward (granted, I have pretty big hands) . Also, i push the home button with the tip/edge of my thumb, not the pad, which isn't a good fingerprint area, either. That makes me think that it would make the most sense in one of the top corners - much more natural.
post #26 of 34
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gazoobee View Post

Yes, but for the same reasons you originally mentioned, the home button would be an awful location for the scanner if it could instead be placed under the screen.  Then, when you turn on the phone, instead of presenting you with "swipe to open" it could instead present a scanner for whatever finger (or fingers) you've set up as security.  

The company they recently bought had just invented a new technology that allowed fingerprint scanners to be integrated into a normal LCD screen, so I continue to hope that this is the solution Apple will go for.  

If, as most people think, it's going to be under the home button, then I see all the same problems you do and more.  A tiny fingerprint scanner under the home button would be essentially an identical solution to all the other fingerprint scanners out there, not useful for all users and therefore (IMO of course) just another "gimmick" at that stage. 
A multiple-step unlock? People are already annoyed with the swipe, why further complicate and slow down the process of using the device? Yes, I'd like to hear more about scanners integrated into the display, that's a much more "Apple" like solution.
post #27 of 34
Quote:
Originally Posted by seanie248 View Post

Kinda simple solution if you think about it.
A Section in the Settings that says "Use Fingerprint Security" with an ON and OFF setting. Setting it to OFF will solve your problems.
And I would assume Home Screen activation would be still be by pressing with home or power. FPR would only be need to unlock the device or perform some functions in Apps

I hope Apple call the next one the iPhone 5X, just to mess with the press and predictions. 
I hate when people say "if you think about it"...it implies I haven't thought about just creating a toggle. But that doesn't solve the problem of creating a better barrier of security that's easier and more invisible than a pass code, does it?And right now that's exactly how apple solves the pass code issue too. So if your solution is just to toggle the security, then it renders adding such expensive tech pointless. Because its not easier to use, it's unreliable and people will just turn it off.
post #28 of 34

Fingerprint scanning and other biometrics are NOT WANTED APPLE, NO RFID SPYCHIPS EITHER!  See http://www.spychips.com  I never used finger scanners on a work laptop and would never use them on personal devices -- just like they never caught on at Jewel grocery stores for payments -- DUD.  I cannot believe Apple would implement this!  

 

Instead, give us something we can USE, like Nextel/Spring Direct Connect iDEN like walkie talkie functionality with a dedicated (but programmable) button on the side -- like the i90c phones!  

post #29 of 34
So you will reach over with your hand to reach a watch, well unwanted.

Since we're here why not state the fact how much will this Iwatch weigh.
post #30 of 34
Quote:
Originally Posted by Curtis Hannah View Post

Since we're here why not state the fact how much will this Iwatch weigh.

Since no one knows if there will even be an 'iWatch', how in the world do you expect them to state how much it will weigh?
"I'm way over my head when it comes to technical issues like this"
Gatorguy 5/31/13
Reply
"I'm way over my head when it comes to technical issues like this"
Gatorguy 5/31/13
Reply
post #31 of 34
Quote:
Originally Posted by antkm1 View Post

I have a couple problems with this purported solution to FP scanning.

1. not everyone uses the same finger every time to press the home button...or the same hand every time for that matter.  So the scanner would have to identify all 10 of your fingers on initial setup.

2. the home button is not the same size as most people's fingers, sometimes you press it with the tip of your finger, sometimes the center.  No one presses it in the same spot every time.

3. sometimes if my phone or iPad is lying on my desk and i want to check the time or see the home screen, I do one of two things: press the home button or press the power button on the top.

4. this doesn't seem like an invisible tech.  to me it would have to be instant that it scans and we all know scanning tech is slow.  If you want to unlock your phone quickly and within a reasonable amount of time, this is not a good solution.

 

How do you overcome this?  I have no idea, but it doesn't sound like a reliable solution to security.  Heck, the slide to unlock works about 90% of the time for me.  Maybe my fingers are too callused to register on the touch screen?

 

Point is, something that should be an almost invisible tech should not have such complications, especially from a company like Apple.

The sensor pictured above is very fast and does exist now, Apple bought the company that makes it Authentec.  They make fingerprint scanners for government facilities like the CIA, NSA, Homeland Security, and many others.  There tech is in just about every laptop made by every manufacturer that uses fingerprint tech.  Authentec sensors are very fast and work great.  I would have no doubt that Apple did there homework before buying the company.  I use fingerprint scanners at work and basically you use the same finger and the scan takes less than 1 sec.  I guess if you cant wait that long it will have the option to turn it off.  

Plus it does not have to be under the home button it could be behind the screen or the border of the device the sensor there interested in is very small. Oh one other thing too.  you dont swipe your finger on this new scanner from Authentic you place your finger on it and hold it there.

go to there website if you have questions on how they work.  These are not cheap crappy fingerprint scanners there very sophisticated products used by a lot of companies for security.

A quote from Authentec themselves about the sensor Apple is interested in:

 

” The product is a new 192 pixel by 8 pixel fingerprint sensor that includes “hybrid fingerprint matching, AES, RSA and SHA encryption blocks, and One Time Password (OTP) generation.”


Edited by Mechanic - 4/3/13 at 6:52pm
post #32 of 34
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gazoobee View Post

The company they recently bought had just invented a new technology that allowed fingerprint scanners to be integrated into a normal LCD screen, so I continue to hope that this is the solution Apple will go for.  

 

Got a link that says AuthenTec invented such a combination?

 

Thanks!

 

PS. Are you sure you're not thinking of that Apple patent application a year or two ago, about putting image sensors between display pixels?

post #33 of 34
Having the scanner under the button makes it vulnerable to damage over time. The button gets a lot of use and can be pushed very hard. I don't think they will place it there

And you can just enrol multiple fingerprints for different fingers. Not hard to have lots of them stored. And you could have others like a wife or child enrolled with certain permissions like app usage or call abilities
post #34 of 34
Fingerprint scanning is just.... too far, man! Besides reporting, it would just be great if someone decided to call the shots here and put some forethought to all this.
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: Future Apple Hardware
AppleInsider › Forums › Mac Hardware › Future Apple Hardware › Fingerprint scanning tech predicted to be major component of Apple's 'iPhone 5S' & 'iWatch'