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Computing pioneer Alan Kay calls Apple's iPad user interface 'poor' - Page 5

post #161 of 181
Quote:
Originally Posted by EricTheHalfBee View Post


Actually I do attack people for making broad generalizations that lack details. See below....
Burden of proof. Do you know what it means? If you make a claim you're the one who has to prove it, it's not up to us to. Asking me to "Google it" is basically saying you can't back up your statements.

Which also fits with Alan Kay saying the UI of the iPad is "poor". If he's going to make such a broad and harsh statement in an interview he knows will be published then he should have followed it up with some examples.

 

So you think the two situations are comparable: An edited excerpt of an interview vs. a to-and-fro debate on a forum with no limit how long you can drag it out for? I can understand someone wishing there were more details. But the massive, derisive criticism here is absurd, given that the man is in part responsible for some of the important strands of DNA that exists in Apple products today.

post #162 of 181
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacRulez View Post

One of the things that Apple doesn't allow in iOS is programs that can download executable code.  For the thousands of teachers who use Squeak as a way of teaching beginning programming, this means that children cannot share programs they write with one another unless they follow Apple's current requirement that they use Android.

This is why Squeak is popular on OLPC, and is being ported to Android, but any iOS version will be lacking in that social component.

And this is what Kay was referring to with his comment about "symmetric authoring and consuming."
Quote:
Originally Posted by haineux 
Apple's iOS security policies will not allow programming systems like Scratch, or Kay's "eToys," into the iOS App Store, because Scratch and eToys have as fundamental features the ability to share programs.

I know from personal communication that Kay and his assistants talked to high-level Apple officials, but their request was rejected. So, no Scratch, or eToys, on iOS. HUGE SIGH.

From what he said, it sounded like he had approached Apple about Scratch/eToy. The issue with running executable code is security because someone could develop a useful app, have it published and then download a piece of code later on that does something bad to a lot of people and Apple would have no way of preventing it. Charlie Miller demonstrated this by exploiting a code-signing bug:

http://www.networkworld.com/news/2011/110811-miller-ios-bug-252886.html

There are two ways round this. One is that developers use the only dynamic code execution that Apple allows, which is Javascript or they do it server-side. Javascript is good enough for After Effects so it should be enough for visual programming. Here is an example of an app based on Scratch that has an iOS, HTML5 version under development:

http://developer.catrobat.org



It's perfectly reasonable to say that dynamic code execution has allowed the Android version to already exist but the way it does it has the potential to cause damage:

http://www.symantec.com/connect/blogs/android-class-loading-hijacking

The server-side method can run any type of code. It can display the UI in an HTML view or WebGL view and code can be any object-oriented code - it can even be a remote terminal. To share the program, they'd just email a link and programs would run fast on any device. It does require internet connectivity but sharing the program in the first place needs connectivity as does visiting the website to find the guides.

The problem this creates is having to redevelop the entire way the software works and preventing the existing programs that kids have done from running, which is what I suspect the biggest objection is but like I say, that's the same deal with Flash - the programs need to be rewritten and they also need to be rewritten for a touch interface anyway.

In terms of the multi-window system, you can immediately see the trouble that has when you factor in different orientations. If you consider the iPad mini in landscape and say they had a feature to have a center split and apps on either side could be switched in and out by using the 4-finger swipe left/right. Each app would have to switch to portrait mode as the resolution for each becomes 512 x 768. To keep the same aspect, they would have to be 682 tall so ~40px black bars top/bottom or supported apps stretch.

But then what happens when you turn the iPad? You can't have a center split running vertically because you'd only get 384 pixels of width - more importantly, hardly any physical width. So the center split has to go from running vertically to running horizontally and each app has to switch to landscape, which gives them the same black bars. If the split is dismissed, the remaining app has to then animate back into portrait or landscape.

You also have to consider how the multi-tasking bar works in that scenario. Which side of the split does the chosen app load into? There would have to be another step to let you choose. There would have to be another button to let you make the split in the first place (probably in the multi-tasking bar).

Then we get to the keyboard. There has to be an active context so it will know which one to type in but imagine how small the views would become with the keyboard enabled. I quite like the ability to swipe back and forward with 4-fingers but it would be nice if there was a way to reorder the apps so you could for example swipe quickly back and forth between a browser and Pages.

The point is that you can't make a statement about a flaw without considering all of the steps and implications that go into improving it. Apple makes compromises to give the best results, every company does. Where they differ is in their quality expectations for those results.
post #163 of 181
Quote:
Originally Posted by ankleskater View Post

Giving limited answers in a limited interview makes Kay wrong and worthy of the dump herein? With that attitude, you must be on Twitter all day criticizing people for a lack of details in 140-ch long utterances.

Sorry, I don't use Twitter. Nor would I expect the same level of detail and critical thinking in a Twitter (or even Facebook) post as in a professional interview.

More importantly, the last time I checked, the Internet was still open. If Kays wanted to expand on these comments (given the criticism he's received from a lot of directions), he could easily have clarified his position and listed some specifics. He hasn't done so.
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post #164 of 181

This doesn't even count as "dust in the wind" -- it's wind in the wind.  (Flatulence in the wind, in fact!  Best quickly avoided and soon forgotten...)

post #165 of 181
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta View Post

More importantly, the last time I checked, the Internet was still open. If Kays wanted to expand on these comments (given the criticism he's received from a lot of directions), he could easily have clarified his position and listed some specifics. He hasn't done so.

And he's had 3 years and 1 day since the iPad first landed in customer's hands to voice what is good and bad about the iPad. If he had spoken up we might have a better tablet experience today so it strikes me odd that someone with so many highly specific ideas would now elude to something has having a myriad of problems but in 3 years time never detail what they are.

"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

 

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"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

 

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post #166 of 181
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marvin View Post




In terms of the multi-window system, you can immediately see the trouble that has when you factor in different orientations. If you consider the iPad mini in landscape and say they had a feature to have a center split and apps on either side could be switched in and out by using the 4-finger swipe left/right. Each app would have to switch to portrait mode as the resolution for each becomes 512 x 768. To keep the same aspect, they would have to be 682 tall so ~40px black bars top/bottom or supported apps stretch.

 

Based only on what I've seen in TV ads, Blackberry might have a way to do multiple windows.  Rather than displaying them both, the top window appears to slide off the one behind it.  I don't know if that is exactly how it works with the BB but something like that would certainly be an improvement over double clicking the home button.

post #167 of 181
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

And he's had 3 years and 1 day since the iPad first landed in customer's hands to voice what is good and bad about the iPad. If he had spoken up we might have a better tablet experience today so it strikes me odd that someone with so many highly specific ideas would now elude to something has having a myriad of problems but in 3 years time never detail what they are.

c/elude/allude
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post #168 of 181

Not sure why people are getting up in arms over an interview.

 

Kay was asked a question, and he gave a simple answer from his standpoint.

 

The original interview question and partial answer was:

 

 

Quote:

Q: "Do you agree that we now essentially have the Dynabook, as expressed in the three tiers of modern personal computing; the notebook, tablet and smartphone? If not, what critical features do you see missing from these?"
 
A:  ... snip ...
 
 "The interesting thing about this question is that it is quite clear from the several early papers that it was an ancillary point for the Dynabook to be able to simulate all existing media in an editable / authorable form in a highly portable networked (including wireless) form. The main point was for it to be able to qualitatively extend the notions of “reading, writing, sharing, publishing, etc. of ideas” literacy to include the “computer reading, writing, sharing, publishing of ideas” that is the computer’s special province.

"For all media, the original intent was “symmetric authoring and consuming”.

"Isn’t it crystal clear that this last and most important service is quite lacking in today’s computing for the general public? Apple with the iPad and iPhone goes even further and does not allow children to download an Etoy made by another child somewhere in the world. This could not be farther from the original intentions of the entire ARPA-IPTO/PARC community in the ’60s and ’70s.

 

 

All he's saying is that obviously today's tablets are not doing anything like what he envisioned for the Dynabook.   And he's right that Apple inhibits many useful forms of application sharing.  (I'd love to see Hypercard done for the iPad.)

 

It's all neither bad nor good.  It's just the way it is.

post #169 of 181
Kay, how much did samsung pay you? No, really..... how much? Probably never get the answer from Mr. Irrelevant. Perhaps he should look to "Dancing with the Stars" like his spiritual doppleganger, the WOZ.
post #170 of 181

deleted


Edited by MacRulez - 7/23/13 at 2:32pm
post #171 of 181

deleted


Edited by MacRulez - 7/23/13 at 2:32pm
post #172 of 181
The response by commenters here shows how rude and immature they are. Alan Kay is spot on and if you knew much about his history, a little more respect would be shown.

Apple have in fact NO idea about ergonomics and the creative process. Bare in mind I have owned or own about every product they have ever made, (typing this on their best designed product, the MBA 13"), so here we go:

1. Finding the volume and rotate lock/mute slider on the iPads is a nightmare, spinning it around every time until you find it.
2. No consistency with gestures across iOS and OS X and even within some apps.
3. Various display aspect ratios.
4. No stylus input, making real creative drawing impossible on any iOS device. (A sponge tipped stylus is not a stylus! Has no precision.)

Ironically, the best tablets were the Windows CE models from almost 15 years ago. Only let down because they were slow and lacked proper connectivity.
post #173 of 181
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigdaddyp View Post

Wahh! I designed a mock up 20 years ago and you damn greedy companies failed to live up to my vision.

Don't like where tablet computing is headed? Build your own.

Sort of my thoughts, too, bigdad; however, I don't know enough about the man to really know if what he says might have some truth to it beyond sensing. I sense Apple can do better and can point to a few features to improve but, for the most part, I do like to hear informed people ponder. Would be good to hear the man expand upon his expounding.

When I find time to rewrite the laws of Physics, there'll Finally be some changes made round here!

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post #174 of 181
Quote:
Originally Posted by tjwal View Post

Based only on what I've seen in TV ads, Blackberry might have a way to do multiple windows.  Rather than displaying them both, the top window appears to slide off the one behind it.  I don't know if that is exactly how it works with the BB but something like that would certainly be an improvement over double clicking the home button.

That's not using them at the same time, just a different way to switch between them. I find the iOS switcher a little slow too but the 4-finger gestures help. 4-finger up avoids the double-tap. I can only think of Windows 8 as an example of a mobile OS to do the split view for using both and does a good job of showing why it doesn't work very well:



It seems like a Windows 8 x86 touch tablet would match Alan Kay's requirements.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oflife 
Ironically, the best tablets were the Windows CE models from almost 15 years ago.

lol.gif You know the people who made it are still in business? Perhaps you'd also prefer one of their modern efforts (see video above).
post #175 of 181
Quote:
Originally Posted by David Andersen View Post

Is this just paraphrasing? He has nothing useful to say at all. Hike your pants back up to your armpits buddy and get back on the porch.

Nope, not paraphrasing, but agreeing with another subscriber (not Mr. Kay). Unfortunately, I neglected to "quote" the other subscriber before submitting my post; therefore, I can see why you (and perhaps others) were misled.

post #176 of 181
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta View Post

More importantly, the last time I checked, the Internet was still open. If Kays wanted to expand on these comments (given the criticism he's received from a lot of directions), he could easily have clarified his position and listed some specifics. He hasn't done so.

Criticism? From whom? Ignorant forum posters? Why bother.
post #177 of 181
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

And he's had 3 years and 1 day since the iPad first landed in customer's hands to voice what is good and bad about the iPad. If he had spoken up we might have a better tablet experience today so it strikes me odd that someone with so many highly specific ideas would now elude to something has having a myriad of problems but in 3 years time never detail what they are.

How do geniuses know he hasn't? Or hasn't given other interviews with more insight? A quick google provides this:

http://m.tomshardware.com/news/alan-kay-steve-jobs-ipad-iphone,10209.html

"I asked Kay, of course, whether he felt that Jobs had stolen the idea for the iPad. Kay quickly denied such a thought. He actually enjoys the success Jobs has with this product and said credit has been given to all parties involved.

“I have been given proper credit for my research and so have the other principal contributors to personal computing and Internetworking. We've all been given the major awards in our fields, honorary degrees from universities, elected as fellows to the major professional societies, etc,” Kay said. “I don't know of any who wanted to be popular like a rock star or actor, so it all worked out well. And for quite a few of us, the big rewards now come from when our ideas are actually used rather than watered down.”

...

But some of us may wonder, if the iPad really isn’t the Dynabook and the Dynabook has not materialized yet, why Kay has not tried to build the complete device himself.

I learned that Kay has a true dedication and focus on what he does and isn’t likely to deviate from that. “Scientists are not the same as entrepreneurs. My main interests are finding and inventing. None of my friends who started companies, like Adobe, ever did ‘finding and inventing’ again,” Kay said. “The processes are very different and interfere considerably. What we did instead is to spend 25 years finding out what is needed in a constructive computer environment to really help 90% of children learn difficult-to-learn powerful ideas, and we were finally successful.”

...
Kay’s solution? “An alternative way to do this would be to ‘sell objects, not apps’ and let the different objects all exist and be usable together in a kind of extended desktop publishing Hypercard document structure. This would allow very useful mashups to be done without any mashing,” Kay said. “For example, one of the drawing programs on the iPad is superb, but it doesn't integrate with the word processor program other than extremely awkwardly. Object-level integration was in the original PARC systems and was more like what we intended for how integration would be done.”

You guys want answers for questions the interviewer didn't ask and criticize Kay for not providing more on what was a simple passing remark. That some parts of the iPad UI sucks. For all you geniuses know he was referring to skewmorphic leather. More likely it was the inability to reuse best of breed UI components across workflows as illustrated above.

For him that's a significant flaw. And I could see how a HyperCard like system could result in a tablet that is very powerful if done really well. I just don't think that the "done really well part" is doable to the same level of refinement as the current, simpler paradigm.

One recent example of what happens when you overreach is the flaw with CoreData iCloud syncing. That may never work quite right since it is hugely difficult.

That said...a modernized HyperCard on iOS would be killer. The risks are low when its just an app on an OS rather the whole OS.
post #178 of 181
Quote:
Originally Posted by nht View Post

Kay’s solution? “An alternative way to do this would be to ‘sell objects, not apps’ and let the different objects all exist and be usable together in a kind of extended desktop publishing Hypercard document structure. This would allow very useful mashups to be done without any mashing,” Kay said. “For example, one of the drawing programs on the iPad is superb, but it doesn't integrate with the word processor program other than extremely awkwardly. Object-level integration was in the original PARC systems and was more like what we intended for how integration would be done.”

My solution to global transportation problems is flying electric cars with energy cells that last 100 years. Do I get to take the approach of waiting for someone else to build one and claim it was my idea? Everybody has visions and concepts about how things should be and people who come up with successful and detailed ones deserve some credit if they were unique but it doesn't mean that people who actually implement working solutions should feel bad because they made a set of compromises for practical reasons.
Quote:
Originally Posted by nht View Post

You guys want answers for questions the interviewer didn't ask and criticize Kay for not providing more on what was a simple passing remark. That some parts of the iPad UI sucks. For all you geniuses know he was referring to skewmorphic leather.

He described what he was talking about in the interview linked in the article. He wants some of the desktop OS paradigms to translate to a touch tablet, as most people did when the iPad launched and what Microsoft is currently demonstrating. You will also notice the original hardware for the dynabook has a physical keyboard - is that an example of the best human-computer interface when it requires learning a legacy input model?
Quote:
Originally Posted by nht View Post

I could see how a HyperCard like system could result in a tablet that is very powerful if done really well. I just don't think that the "done really well part" is doable to the same level of refinement as the current, simpler paradigm.

That said...a modernized HyperCard on iOS would be killer. The risks are low when its just an app on an OS rather the whole OS.

It has Hypercard:

http://arstechnica.com/apple/2012/05/25-years-of-hypercard-the-missing-link-to-the-web/

"Even before its cancellation, HyperCard's inventor saw the end coming. In an angst-filled 2002 interview, Bill Atkinson confessed to his Big Mistake. If only he had figured out that stacks could be linked through cyberspace, and not just installed on a particular desktop, things would have been different.

"I missed the mark with HyperCard," Atkinson lamented. "I grew up in a box-centric culture at Apple. If I'd grown up in a network-centric culture, like Sun, HyperCard might have been the first Web browser. My blind spot at Apple prevented me from making HyperCard the first Web browser."

"How did creator Bill Atkinson define HyperCard? "Simply put, HyperCard is a software erector set that lets non-programmers put together interactive information," he told the Computer Chronicles in 1987."

You want to make a drawing program:
http://mudcu.be/sketchpad/

a game:
http://chrome.angrybirds.com

a Text Editor:
http://docs.google.com

you can do it and if you wanted a system to integrate them all, you do it server-side and link the databases together. There's nothing stopping anyone from doing this. These apps can all be created on iOS with software Apple would have no problem with. Right now it uses programming but it's not a requirement. Expecting 800,000 native apps to somehow integrate together without a security model is disconnected from reality.

There's no question that there are better systems, there is a question of it being possible to build them and that part is usually someone else's job and when they fall short of the ideal, the idealists criticise. Everyone should be free to air reasonable views but they aren't exempt from criticism.

We'd all like to use our iPads like we use our Macs but you can't until you introduce a scalable windowing system and take away the sandboxing and it doesn't work. There can be two modes like the way Windows 8 works but it works very poorly. I don't like that reality and I didn't like the iPad when it came out for that reason but I acknowledge that reality and the fact that (ignoring phones) the iPad in its current form is the single most popular personal computer in the world. In that regard, Alan Kay was right. If he wants to run eToys and split views, an x86 Windows 8 tablet is what he's after and if that's the right way to do things, Windows 8 tablets will rule the world in no time at all.
post #179 of 181
Quote:
He described what he was talking about in the interview linked in the article. He wants some of the desktop OS paradigms to translate to a touch tablet, as most people did when the iPad launched and what Microsoft is currently demonstrating. You will also notice the original hardware for the dynabook has a physical keyboard - is that an example of the best human-computer interface when it requires learning a legacy input model?

 

For content creation until intelligent agents which were part of the concept yes.  Even past that.

 

For symmetric content consumption and creation, yes.

 

His point is that learning a legacy input model has significant value because it provides a richer interaction model than just touch.  This is why pen input has value as well.  Content creation is aided with these input mechanism we have developed over time.  Just like why artists use pencils, brushes, etc and not just finger painting in  physical medium and styluses in the digital realm.

 

Likewise I can enter textual content far faster using a hardware keyboard than a touch keyboard AND it doesn't take any space from the display AND both keyboard and display is angled correctly.  This is why many folks buy keyboard folios for their iPads.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Marvin View Post

It has Hypercard:

http://arstechnica.com/apple/2012/05/25-years-of-hypercard-the-missing-link-to-the-web/

"Even before its cancellation, HyperCard's inventor saw the end coming. In an angst-filled 2002 interview, Bill Atkinson confessed to his Big Mistake. If only he had figured out that stacks could be linked through cyberspace, and not just installed on a particular desktop, things would have been different.

"I missed the mark with HyperCard," Atkinson lamented. "I grew up in a box-centric culture at Apple. If I'd grown up in a network-centric culture, like Sun, HyperCard might have been the first Web browser. My blind spot at Apple prevented me from making HyperCard the first Web browser."

"How did creator Bill Atkinson define HyperCard? "Simply put, HyperCard is a software erector set that lets non-programmers put together interactive information," he told the Computer Chronicles in 1987."

You want to make a drawing program:
http://mudcu.be/sketchpad/

a game:
http://chrome.angrybirds.com

a Text Editor:
http://docs.google.com

you can do it and if you wanted a system to integrate them all, you do it server-side and link the databases together. There's nothing stopping anyone from doing this. These apps can all be created on iOS with software Apple would have no problem with. Right now it uses programming but it's not a requirement. 

 

 

 

Web browser/HTML5 does not fit the description:

 

"Simply put, HyperCard is a software erector set that lets non-programmers put together interactive information"

 

Coding javascript, css and jquery is not currently easily done for the type of folks that used to generate cards with a little bit of hyperscript.  Maybe Adobe Edge fits the bill but what you propose isn't it and you don't get it despite quoting the exact text.

 

The "Right now it uses programming" IS the failure.  The "it's not a requirement" is the challenge.  As is persisting the experience while in an offline mode.  HTML5 does have offline persistence for web apps buy few use it at all and even fewer use it effectively.  Google is going to address this shortfall but in my opinion on the Blink thread in a way that only really benefits Google.  

 

Quote:
Expecting 800,000 native apps to somehow integrate together without a security model is disconnected from reality.

 

So is expecting web apps to not pose a security threat.  In fact, web apps pose an even greater challenge than the type of composable objects Kay outlined because those object are vetted in the app store, local AND sandboxed.   The app store screening helps maintain security more than your proposed webapp solution.  Malicious objects should be rare.  The same cannot be said for webapps not vetted by Apple.

 

 

Quote:
There's no question that there are better systems, there is a question of it being possible to build them and that part is usually someone else's job and when they fall short of the ideal, the idealists criticise. Everyone should be free to air reasonable views but they aren't exempt from criticism.

 

 

His primary criticism is that Apple will not allow other interpreted languages on iOS.  This is a valid criticism and we're not talking about folks here providing criticism or airing reasonable views but hateful and ignorant attacks about a "has been".

 

Quote:
We'd all like to use our iPads like we use our Macs but you can't until you introduce a scalable windowing system and take away the sandboxing and it doesn't work. There can be two modes like the way Windows 8 works but it works very poorly. I don't like that reality and I didn't like the iPad when it came out for that reason but I acknowledge that reality and the fact that (ignoring phones) the iPad in its current form is the single most popular personal computer in the world. In that regard, Alan Kay was right. If he wants to run eToys and split views, an x86 Windows 8 tablet is what he's after and if that's the right way to do things, Windows 8 tablets will rule the world in no time at all.

 

The fact is that you can largely use your iPad like you use your Mac if you add a keyboard and a way to hold your ipad screen in a viewable orientation.

 

Having multiple windows open on the same screen at the same time isn't a hard requirement given the way you can currently switch between apps with a keyboard: cmd-shift-tab to the next app and cmd-tab to switch back. Option+Left and Option_Right to navigate through the dock.  

 

The classic example of the current shortfall in touch screen only mode and the desire for multiple apps on the screen is where writing a paper or creating a presentation and you want to cut and paste from the web browser or photo album or another document or presentation.  This is really annoying to do with just the home button.

 

With the keyboard cmd-shift between the browser and Pages.  Cut and paste in between.  

 

Not quite as good as drag and drop but it's a 10" screen and on a 11" MBA you're using spaces a lot (and CTRL UP/DN/LEFT/RIGHT with Cut/Paste) as well because of real estate issues.  Maybe CTRL-UP/DN would have been more natural than cmd-shift-tab since desktop and apps are the same thing in iOS.

 

So what you write is expressly untrue and your criticism of the keyboard on a dynabook is misguided.

post #180 of 181
Quote:
Originally Posted by nht View Post

The "Right now it uses programming" IS the failure.  The "it's not a requirement" is the challenge.  As is persisting the experience while in an offline mode.  HTML5 does have offline persistence for web apps buy few use it at all and even fewer use it effectively.

That's not a failing of the iPad design though. If someone like Alan Kay wants to develop a way to build web-based products without programming, Apple isn't going to stop them doing it. The assertion Alan makes is that Apple could have designed iOS better and less restrictive. In theory anything can be designed better.
Quote:
Originally Posted by nht View Post

So is expecting web apps to not pose a security threat.  In fact, web apps pose an even greater challenge than the type of composable objects Kay outlined because those object are vetted in the app store, local AND sandboxed.   The app store screening helps maintain security more than your proposed webapp solution.  Malicious objects should be rare.  The same cannot be said for webapps not vetted by Apple.

Native code has higher permissions and access to low-level APIs that web content doesn't get access to. That's why people make plugins and why plugins tend to be the source of security vulnerabilities.
Quote:
Originally Posted by nht View Post

we're not talking about folks here providing criticism or airing reasonable views but hateful and ignorant attacks about a "has been".

That's partly down to how these articles are presented but there's another side that drives this. Whenever someone influential speaks negatively about Apple, be it a computer pioneer like Woz or Kay, or a high court judge, certain people latch onto the sound-bytes and use it as fuel for further hatred towards Apple. The suggestion is that these influential people are above criticism e.g without Woz you wouldn't have a Mac so really, when he says Jobs was reincarnated at Microsoft, that's above reproach.

Mostly I'd agree that it's crossing the line to attack their character but the statements they make have a basis in their character. If their original concepts come from a period of time when lots of outdated ideas influence them then it's because of their mindset that they try to impose those concepts on modern systems.
Quote:
Originally Posted by nht View Post

Having multiple windows open on the same screen at the same time isn't a hard requirement

Showing multiple windows isn't difficult but it's hard making it work nicely. Like I said earlier, you have to allow for what happens when you turn everything round and deal with the relative scale and placement of everything as well as enabling and disabling the multi-window state.
Quote:
Originally Posted by nht View Post

The classic example of the current shortfall in touch screen only mode and the desire for multiple apps on the screen is where writing a paper or creating a presentation and you want to cut and paste from the web browser or photo album or another document or presentation.  This is really annoying to do with just the home button.

You don't have to use the home button, there's 4-finger swipe. Exposé would be nice though e.g 4-finger up and then pick one of say 9 apps at a time. Even like the app switcher in OS X so 4-finger swiping left-right wouldn't move the screens but show a switcher view where previews cycle and it opens the one you let go on.
Quote:
Originally Posted by nht View Post

So what you write is expressly untrue and your criticism of the keyboard on a dynabook is misguided.

So, when you turn the tablet into landscape, how does that physical keyboard work out or are you not supposed to hold it that way? Given that it's in portrait, that means multiple apps have to fit side by side with only the smallest width. When you carry it, are you supposed to avoid accidental input? Kay even criticised the qwerty keyboard himself and yet he hardwires it into his design. The iPad can have any language or layout required, even a number pad.
post #181 of 181

Multiple pages arguing over Kay is past his prime...? What, that he stopped being relevant 15 years ago wasn't enough proof?
 

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  • Computing pioneer Alan Kay calls Apple's iPad user interface 'poor'
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