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Computing pioneer Alan Kay calls Apple's iPad user interface 'poor' - Page 2

post #41 of 181
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

I think his "myriad of ways" and "disappointment in the progression of the human-computer interface" comments are less than helpful and don't see why he couldn't have detailed some ideas if he has them.

 

Easy to take potshots from ivory towers, isn't it?

 

But look at it this way: iPad has been on the market for barely three years, the post-PC era is therefore in its infancy, and there's still plenty of room for improvement.

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post #42 of 181
He is free to innovate.

In regards to limitations, the vast majority of people should not be administrators on their own computers. Others will love to change things, program, etc. iPad is a consumer device. I think we will see more management/upgrades done over a network by the system manufacturer in the future. It hasn't worked too well the other way, quite frankly. Those that want to do it themselves will still do so. There will always be jailbreaking and rooting, but it isn't for most people.
post #43 of 181

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Edited by MacRulez - 7/23/13 at 2:30pm
post #44 of 181
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacRulez View Post

Wow.  Lots of vitriol of AI's enemy du jour.

 

How many of you who've criticized Kay know who he is?

 

He's just like Steve Wozniak and Ray Kurzweil; great past accomplishments but irrelevant today. That's who Alan Kay is and you know it.

 

Meanwhile the old axiom still holds true. If you want attention, bash Apple. He wouldn't bash Android or Samsung or Google because nobody would care. Bash Apple, though, and ears perk up, noses sniff the air, and heads turn to see what's going on. It really is that simple.

post #45 of 181

I love all these people, who although did some critical work ages ago and should be lauded for it, have been irrelevant for decades, and come out of the woodwork to bash the current direction of products, and have a special hatred of Apple. Richard Stallman, Alan Kay, and even Woz- they offer no real constructive critisism, no discussion of well thought out improvements that would make sense in the real world, only comparing shipping products to whatever imaginary product that fits their philoshy/ideals but which absolutely has no chance at consumer success in the marketplace. If iOS was based on a terminal, these people would be happier no doubt. Would give the user full "freedom" to program whatever the **** they want for themselves, cause clearly thats what people are clamoring for. 

post #46 of 181
Quote:
Originally Posted by Leonard View Post

 

 

Big whoop.  What's he worked on lately?  He sounds like another Woz.  They love to criticize, but have they done anything lately themselves. 

 

And he's not just criticizing Apple, he's criticizing all computing in general (Android, Win8, Blackberry).  So it's not about being Apple fanatics. 

 

Why didn't his Dynabook thingy become "the" big thing if it's so great?

 
 
Kay is not another Woz. His legacy is far, far, far more significant. As for what he has done lately, he has been trying to stimulate education reform.
 
Why didn't the Dynabook become "the big thing"? Effectively, it did. The Dynabook was a concept developed in the late 60s, early 70s. Try and imagine processing power available then! Those were the days before Intel, before Motorola's 68000 or even the 6502. Yet, without knowing how much computing power could grow, Alan Kay could imagine something like the Dynabook. And some of the ignorant people here deign to mock Alan Kay for not shipping?
 
As a concept, the Dynabook was the precursor to the Alto, which engendered the Mac, which in turn evolved into the iPad. Smalltalk, which he developed for the Dynabook, was the precursor to Objective C. You can draw a straight line from the Dynabook to every single significant Apple product after Apple II. 
 
Get to know someone before you criticize them.
post #47 of 181
Quote:
Originally Posted by anantksundaram View Post

 

The guy does not have a single constructive thing to offer.

 

Nor do you (in your berating of other posters). Why don't you tell us why you're "... all for him criticising the iPad"? What specifically would you criticize?

What are you talking about?

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post #48 of 181

As I read through AI's exact transcript of Kay's words, I saw nothing constructive and only a few statements that made me irrationally angry! /s

 

Several of you have pointed out that Kay, one of the fathers of the GUI as we know it today, is another man who can be added to the list of computing pioneers unhappy with the functionality of iOS.  Do you think that means we should conclude that these experts have a point and that we should discuss how iOS can improve?  Or instead should we plug our ears and close our eyes while making a blabbering noise to drown out the unpleasant news?

post #49 of 181
Quote:
Originally Posted by stelligent View Post

 
Kay is not another Woz. His legacy is far, far, far more significant. As for what he has done lately, he has been trying to stimulate education reform.
 
Why didn't the Dynabook become "the big thing"? Effectively, it did. The Dynabook was a concept developed in the late 60s, early 70s. Try and imagine processing power available then! Those were the days before Intel, before Motorola's 68000 or even the 6502. Yet, without knowing how much computing power could grow, Alan Kay could imagine something like the Dynabook. And some of the ignorant people here deign to mock Alan Kay for not shipping?
 
As a concept, the Dynabook was the precursor to the Alto, which engendered the Mac, which in turn evolved into the iPad. Smalltalk, which he developed for the Dynabook, was the precursor to Objective C. You can draw a straight line from the Dynabook to every single significant Apple product after Apple II. 
 
Get to know someone before you criticize them.

So, by that logic, the Wright Brothers should be criticizing Boeing for the design of the 787 or NASA for the design of the space shuttle.

After all, the Wright Brothers had a great idea and the current implementation is imperfect.
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post #50 of 181
Quote:
Originally Posted by stelligent View Post
 
Kay is not another Woz. His legacy is far, far, far more significant. As for what he has done lately, he has been trying to stimulate education reform.
 
Why didn't the Dynabook become "the big thing"? Effectively, it did. The Dynabook was a concept developed in the late 60s, early 70s. Try and imagine processing power available then! Those were the days before Intel, before Motorola's 68000 or even the 6502. Yet, without knowing how much computing power could grow, Alan Kay could imagine something like the Dynabook. And some of the ignorant people here deign to mock Alan Kay for not shipping?
 
As a concept, the Dynabook was the precursor to the Alto, which engendered the Mac, which in turn evolved into the iPad. Smalltalk, which he developed for the Dynabook, was the precursor to Objective C. You can draw a straight line from the Dynabook to every single significant Apple product after Apple II. 
 
Get to know someone before you criticize them.

Stop hyperventilating. The issue is not his legacy or his past contributions -- no one has questioned that. It whether he makes any sense at all in his current critique.

post #51 of 181
Quote:
Originally Posted by anantksundaram View Post

Wow. How's this helpful?!

Not helpful, I agree. But I am pissed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by anantksundaram View Post

Stop hyperventilating. The issue is not his legacy or his past contributions -- no one has questioned that. It whether he makes any sense at all in his current critique.

 

 

But they did criticize his legacy. According to these morons you call friends, he has done "nothing for decades". He is "another Woz". 

 

Do they even understand that without Alan Kay, there would be no Mac, no iPad and possibly no Apple today? Woz's legacy is invisible in Apple's products today. But they ALL carry Alan Kay's inventions as DNA. ALL. 

 

And this is just in the context of Apple. In a greater context, Alan Kay is computer science's version of Richard Feynman and even Einstein. If computer scientist could win Nobel Prize, he would. But he did win the Turing, not to mention various awards which are all many levels higher than the awards given to Woz.

 

This is like a group of bleacher drunks booing Mariano Rivera, or a group of housewives calling out Joe Montana as a loser, or a bunch of fat drunk slobs looking at the Vince Lombardi Trophy and wondering why it was named after a nobody. The ignorance here has never been as thick as today.

 

Get this straight, people: if you love your Mac, iPad or iPhone, you cannot diss Alan Kay. In doing so, you are not defending Apple, you're mocking it.


Edited by stelligent - 4/3/13 at 12:03pm
post #52 of 181
post #53 of 181

BTW today is the iPad's birthday.  Here is what some people thought of it: IPAD IS DOOMED http://www.businessinsider.com/these-people-said-the-ipad-was-doomed-2013-4

 

Plus the Osbourne 1 was unveiled today in 1981.

 

April 3 seems to be a good day.


Edited by WelshDog - 4/3/13 at 12:21pm
post #54 of 181
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ireland View Post

 

I think you're wrong.

 

Then why didn't he? 

post #55 of 181

The same Alan Kay has another line that Steve Jobs liked to quote often: "The best way to predict the future is to invent it."   Steve and Apple predicted, and invented, and delivered, and the world is a much much better place because their actions.  Action is always louder than words, doesn't matter whose words it is.  If Alan thinks his idea is better than Apple's, build it.  Steve kept working on new ideas and products till his last days.  If Steve lived till he was 72, I am sure he will still be working on new ideas every day.

 

And I think Alan should show some appreciation for what Apple and Steve did for him as well.  Without Steve and Apple, who brought a lot of his ideas to fruition and to the world, Alan's ideas, visions, prototypes will probably be long dead, forgotten, along with Xerox, dumped into the trash bin of history.  And Steve had a saying that hardly anyone can keep their creativity after their 30s.   If all Alan Kay today can do is just talk and live his old dreams, then move aside.  Let Apple change the world.


Edited by LeCorsaire - 4/3/13 at 12:18pm
post #56 of 181
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacRulez View Post

Wow.  Lots of vitriol of AI's enemy du jour.

 

How many of you who've criticized Kay know who he is?

 

An opinion is worth the logic and evidence it rests on, not the fame or prior accomplishments of the person who speaks it.  Full stop.

 

Edit: But I agree...not much need for angry protests.

post #57 of 181
Quote:
Originally Posted by wakefinance View Post

Or instead should we plug our ears and close our eyes while making a blabbering noise to drown out the unpleasant news?

 

There is no unpleasant news. There is only the opinion of one person, and guess what, most intelligent people are capable of thinking for themselves and making up their own minds. I, like many others here, have been using computers for a long time, and I've been exposed to a lot of different UI changes throughout the years. I would definitely not describe the iPad UI as 'poor', and I don't rely on other people's opinion to tell me what is good or not. I have two perfectly functioning eyes, and I can easily see for myself what is good or not.

 

There is nothing specific really offered in the criticism. If the iPad user interface is 'poor', then what exactly makes it poor?

 

All I see here is one man's vague opinion, and then I see the usual suspects (and Fandroid imposters) who jump in to defend that person, while attacking real Apple users who are quick to point out the flaws in the person's argument.

 

When WOZ opens his mouth next week or next month and makes another incredibly stupid statement, like he is known for doing, I expect the same characters to be jumping in on that thread to defend those ridiculous statements, while attacking Apple and Apple users, because that is why they are here. 

post #58 of 181

Yeah, Mr. Kay is just blowing his own opinionated air towards everyone.  I disagree strongly with him, but unlike him, I'll give details as to why his opinion is BS, and mine is right.

 

First, as at least one other forum member above has stated, iOS is much simpler than "mouse" computing, and therefore has opened up computers to many, many more people.  For example, a few years ago, my 2 year old son was using an iPod Touch perfectly easily and on his own.  Why?!?  Because he understood intuitively how the system worked because it was so straightforward and simple.  He only picked up how to handle a "mouse" computer at about 4.5 years old, and then with a lot of frustration and needing frequent help.  I have some non-computer older friends who also were able to learn iOS device operation extremely quickly, whereas computers confuse them.  I've heard stories like these above from countless friends of mine.

 

Mr. Kay can say that iPads suck all he wants, but the pervasive evidence above pretty much torpedoes his opinion as being worth much.  If you can open up the power of computers to a wider range of people, including the communication, knowledge, and entertainment aspects that they possess, you're doing a good thing for the world.

 

Now, he might have something of a point that iPads/tablets are not great at Authoring content.  But then again 1) they never claimed to be great authoring tools (although the communication aspect of them betrays that idea somewhat), and 2) they are claimed to be consumption devices (knowledge, books, internet, entertainment, etc.).

 

Second, Apple's creation of tablets was a very intelligent bet on how to compete with low-end PCs that don't have any margin/profit.  They realized that probably a majority of low-end PCs are used for content consumption (games, internet, netflix, etc.), and not content creation.  If you could provide a well-built, but relatively inexpensive, light, long battery life, hold-in-one hand with an operating system super easy to use tablet with a fantastic screen, at about the same price as those low-end PCs, and infuse it with a rich ecosystem (iTunes, AppStore, iCloud, etc.), and still make crazy profits with it, well . . . not only have you given your company a huge leg up (as low-end PC makers like Dell start to go out of business), but you've provided a superior and mobile experience to the end-user as well.  Hell, with an iPad, it's now simple to sit in bed and get your morning news and e-mails while sipping your coffee--instead of waiting for the laptop that weighs 3 times as much to boot up, or trudging over to the study to sit at a desk to use my desktop.

 

Mr. Kay seems to have an extremely narrow view of things, and doesn't give details.  Glad he wasn't in charge of Apple.

post #59 of 181
Quote:
Originally Posted by wigby View Post


Ohh, so he was the idiot that helped develop a great interface but wouldn't share it with the world or have the business mind to profit from it or convince Xerox to implement it. Asking him for advice is like going back in time to 1984 to ask Steve Jobs what the next big thing is going to be today.

I don't think Kay's job at PARC had anything to do with profit or monetizing inventions.  Nor do I think he has any interest in that sort of thing.  He is a research scientist, a conceptualist.  Selling product is not his concern.

post #60 of 181
a dude from Parc Xerox (that multibillion dollar earning division that sold hundreds of millions of consumer devices.... Nope )

yep, all these theoretical geniuses have all these wonderful ideas except they have no clue to actually MAKE a product for the masses - to make a product you need a product that you can manufacture and that people will BUY and you need to make money (no money no manufacturing, no marketing, no retail.... )
post #61 of 181

Well said, but Mr. Kay should have been more specific, regardless of his history. I'm retired now but once had a boss who criticized me often. He was relentless, but specific and provided examples. He was a military fighter pilot who also received constant denunciation from a former senior officer. One day, my former boss confided that he wouldn't waste his time criticizing others who lacked the talent, drive, and potential. I was humbled, but never forgot his words and the confidence he inspired.

 

I believe that criticism and alternate points of view are welcome, but no matter who you are or whatever the legacy, your are ripe for rebuttal if your claims are nebulous and unsupported. I have enjoyed the use of Apple products going on 4 years now. As long as there is valid and constructive criticism, and hose who are willing to listen, Cupertino will continue to be successful.

post #62 of 181
Is this just paraphrasing? He has nothing useful to say at all. Hike your pants back up to your armpits buddy and get back on the porch.
post #63 of 181
Alan Kay has interesting ideas, but he has a severe weakness along with his like-minded colleagues, apparent at Xerox PARC, and with his EToys and Squeak and Smalltalk platforms. They have little skills at productizing and stabilizing their platforms or ideas. Lack of business acumen, perhaps?

This is to say, that much of what he pushes is rough-edged research, new ideas that never get polished. Squeak (his Smalltalk platform) in in constant flux (or had been the last I checked). Reminds me of Woz vs Jobs. Woz, the tinkerer, the engineer, who could constantly see improvements, changes to make, while Jobs knew how to put enough polish on ideas to get the products out the door, then incrementally improve the ideas and get THEM out the door.
post #64 of 181
Quote:
Originally Posted by waldobushman View Post

They have little skills at productizing and stabilizing their platforms or ideas. Lack of business acumen, perhaps?
 


Just like that Leonardo da Vinci loser who could never get that helicopter idea to market. /s 

da-vinci-skull_helicopter.jpg

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post #65 of 181
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post


...

Asked if the Dynabook has not, in fact, been realized in the form of the notebook computer, tablet, and smartphone, Kay said he believes those devices largely miss the point. Apple's iPad ? and the wider computing environment, by extension ? falls short of the Dynabook's ideal, Kay says, since it lacks the capacity to enable "symmetric authoring and consuming."

I agree with this... there are many ways individuals learn... We've all been exposed to "Learn by doing". Have you ever experienced "Learn by teaching"? By that I mean you are teaching something or explaining something and someone asks a question (or your subconscious poses the question) -- and you provide an answer... then you say to yourself -- "I didn't know I knew that!"

The same thing can happen with any creative activity like "authoring"... You must lean forward and participate as opposed to lean back and observe... both are necessary.

One of my grandsons is hooked on the game MineCraft -- and very good at it. He doesn't realize it, but he is doing 3D CAD and 3D Drafting (for which he has no training or interest). Think of the possibilities if he could interactively author the "games" as well as play them.

Quote:
Kay continued, calling Apple's restrictions on content creation and sharing on the iPad "mostly bogus," and saying that any potential security issues were the result of flaws in the OS. He also expressed disappointment in the progression of the human-computer interface since the development of the Graphical User Interface.

I kinda' agree with this too... the original iOS SDK had lots of flaws and security exposures -- so they closed it down. Also, I believe that Apple didn't know what it had -- and was reluctant to expose too much too soon -- in case it would prevent them from further development or exploitation -- and it could aid potential competitors.

This is where Kay's idealist view is at odds with the real world of making money...

Though, I believe that Kay would have no problem telling his opinion to Jobs -- and that Jobs would give the consideration it (and Kay) deserves.

...

[/quote]


Edit: AIR, Apple offered a free license of OS X or iOS (maybe both) as the OS for OLPC/OTPC (One Laptop Per Child / One Tablet Per Child).
Edited by Dick Applebaum - 4/3/13 at 12:57pm
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post #66 of 181
The ignorance in these comments is astounding:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alan_Kay

He is one of the pioneers of the industry, a computer scientist, inventor, mathematician, innovator. He invented the object oriented programming and is the architect of the modern overlapping windowing graphical user interface (GUI). He even worked at Apple in the early days.

If people here achieved 1% of what he did, world would be a better place.

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post #67 of 181
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post

Kay says, it lacks the capacity to enable "symmetric authoring and consuming."

Kay continued, calling Apple's restrictions on content creation and sharing on the iPad "mostly bogus," and saying that any potential security issues were the result of flaws in the OS. He also expressed disappointment in the progression of the human-computer interface since the development of the Graphical User Interface.

"The current day UIs derived from the PARC-GUI have many flaws," Kay said, "including those that were in the PARC-GUI in the first place... even though multitouch is a good idea (pioneered by Nicholas Negroponte's ARCH-MAC group in the late '70s), much of the iPad UI is very poor in a myriad of ways."

iOS is certainly lacking when you compare it to a Mac (although in some regards is better e.g no beachball). No ability to see the UI of two applications at once for example and restricted access to files, which limits its potential as a productive or authoring platform. It is categorized as post-pc and yet unless it can replace a PC in its entirety, PCs will still be required.

The issue of security is entirely valid to justify some restrictions though. It's easy to think of it in terms of an individual buying one iPad or iPhone but the reality is that 100 million people per year buy them. When that happens on the PC, they become a huge target for malware and that's why they have restrictive app stores and sandboxed operating systems. It's very difficult to make an OS flexible enough and secure enough for hundreds of millions of people and given that Apple has driven the choices of companies that have no reason to follow them, chances are they are the right decisions.

There are instances of symmetric authoring and consuming in spite of this. Someone can record and compose audio, video, images and author to the web on iOS and allow other iOS users to consume that. It can't run dynamic code but it can run a remote session on a server and do it there.

The fact that children can use the iOS UI without training is testament to how powerful it is as a human-computer interface.
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post

"One way to think of all of these organizations," Kay said, "is to realize that if they require a charismatic leader who will shoot people in the knees when needed, then the corporate organization and process is a failure. It means no group can come up with a good decision and make it stick just because it is a good idea."

Jobs dismissed that assertion in one of his interviews - he said 'ideas always have to win not hierarchy, if they don't then people leave'. That doesn't mean the ideas of the higher ups wouldn't be given a higher level of importance but they wouldn't have the products they have now if the ideas were dictated by only a handful of people at the top.
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post

"The education establishment in the U.S. has generally treated the computer as sort of like a typewriter," Kay said. "I've used the analogy of what would happen if you put a piano in every classroom. If there is no other context, you will get a "chopsticks" culture, and maybe even pop culture... 'the music is not in the piano.'"

I don't think that's true. Film editing, music composition, animation, photography and so on are taught using computers. It's not restricted to programming and typing. It could be argued that a keyboard and mouse controls all of this for the most part and is unsuitable for it in a lot of cases. That's where the multi-touch UI can evolve and it is evolving on iOS as well as other platforms.

There has to be a recognition that there are inherent problems with making a productive machine with an entirely flexible human-computer interface though. Dealing with windows is one of the biggest problems and as mentioned the balance of power and security.

Despite the credentials, I'd agree with a lot of the criticism of his assertions. It's the easiest job in the world to find faults with the work of other people, the hard part is fixing them. Alan Kay should design a multi-touch UI that improves on the problems. It sounds like he'd put a desktop OS into a multi-touch computer with no sandboxing.
post #68 of 181
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post

 A former Apple Fellow, 
How do you become a former Apple Fellow. Is the award taken away?

I think it involves a medical operation 1smile.gif
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post #69 of 181
There's theory (what Kay's preaching) and there's practice (what real companies are making and what real people are using).

Similar arguments are made in the web UI world, where Jakob Nielsen is one the "leaders" in what constitutes proper user interface design in websites.

Have you ever seen a Jakob Nielsen-approved website?

Neither have I. Some stuff made in a lab, should never leave said lab.
post #70 of 181
I'm not as emotional as some might be. But if the measure of a man is based more on his ability to commercialize than his brilliance at conceptualizing, then the Busch clan or the Gilette family is more deserving of our awe and admiration than Da Vinci, Einstein and Newton. If this is what the majority here believes, then that is the measure of the collective intellect here.
post #71 of 181

After reading the headline I was very curious to hear what Alan had to say. Then I read the article and found out he said nothing. Lots of vague of complaints with no explanation or examples of what he would be the better way. Please give us some examples of how the iPad inhibits creativity and what you would do differently. And what are these problems with the desktop GUI. He doesn't really explain any of this criticisms. I'm not saying he's wrong. I'm saying I'd like to hear more. Explain yourself. I'm curious!


Edited by Takeo - 4/3/13 at 1:16pm
post #72 of 181
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post

I think it involves a medical operation 1smile.gif

I did find the answer. I probably should have edited my post with an update.

 

He was a Fellow within the Advanced Technology Group which was discontinued, hence no Fellows. Same thing when he was a Fellow at Disney. Disney discontinued their Fellows program, therefore he is a former Fellow.

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post #73 of 181
Quote:
Originally Posted by jguther View Post

He's like a socialist: disappointed that his ideas don't work because people are not the way he thinks they should be.

Since he obviously can't change people, he tries to change the technology that works just fine for all those people. Wrong approach - he has put himself in a corner where he is no longer relevant.

 

In a nutshell yes. It isn't his idea, his way of thinking. So it's bad. He must really loathe that Steve Jobs was publicly on the record saying that he didn't view this as a zero sum game. That for Apple to 'win' doesn't mean everyone else has to lose. ie, other ways are valid and can be just as good. 

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post #74 of 181
Quote:
Originally Posted by anantksundaram View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ireland View Post

That's not the best counter-argument.

I'm all for him criticising the iPad, but I'd like to see what he'd change, specifically.

The guy does not have a single constructive thing to offer.

Nor do you (in your berating of other posters). Why don't you tell us why you're "... all for him criticising the iPad"? What specifically would you criticize?

I'll give you one...

I would like to be able to easily write simple apps for the iPad -- on the iPad.

Possibly, something like HyperCard. Likely, the capability would have to come from Apple because it would need to access the underlying system functions and APIs (including those not exposed to 3rd-party developers).

Ideally, it would be both simple and robust -- learn the basics in a few minutes and match your needs as your knowledge and experience grows.

Yes, a 2-year-old should be able to use it (as well as a frustrated 73-year=old dilettante).
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post #75 of 181
More successful Computing pioneer Steve Jobs calls Apple's iPad user interface 'excellent'.

posthumously calls Alan Kay a 'coward'
post #76 of 181

Kay's analogy of a computer as being similar to a piano in a classroom has a ring of truth. I have been in many classrooms where typically there is a couple of computers sitting in the corner gathering dust and with little to none educational use and purpose.

 

However, the iPad has changed everything about computing in the classroom -- where each student has their own device and the teacher is trained in how to incorporate the technology into their lessons. In this scenario, I have witnessed incredible things 3rd graders have learned, solved, created, and produced with their iPads.

post #77 of 181
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacRulez View Post

Wow.  Lots of vitriol of AI's enemy du jour.

 

How many of you who've criticized Kay know who he is?

 

Hes a guy who was once a visionary but now the reality has moved past his visions and he's not happy with reality but doesn't offer any real comment other than 'its bad'. If he thinks it sucks so much and he's so smart where is his alternative version. 

 

No where is where. Because he won't bother making it, to prove his point. he's like Steve Woz, not doing anything these days but getting treated like a god because of what he did ages ago.

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post #78 of 181
Wow what does he think of Android then

I would love a failure like the iPad
post #79 of 181
Quote:
Originally Posted by Apple ][ View Post

 

And one of the reasons he gives for the iPad being poor is that people can't download an Etoy?lol.gif

 

At first I thought to myself, what the hell is an Etoy, so I quickly found out what it was.

 

This is one of the most amateurish sites that I've ever seen, and it looks like it hasn't been updated in many years. Seriously, who gives a shit about Etoys? Screw Etoys.

 

http://www.squeakland.org/


 

 

I thought that project was all about motivating an teaching kids, giving them a way to be creative etc.

 

all of which can be done, better than their way, with the current apps 

 

so is he really about the children or about his ego in wanting folks to agree with him etc

A non tech's thoughts on Apple stuff 

(She's family so I'm a little biased)

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A non tech's thoughts on Apple stuff 

(She's family so I'm a little biased)

Reply
post #80 of 181
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gustav View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by anonymouse View Post

His criticisms might carry more weight if they were more specific than, "a myriad of ways."
Agreed. Without saying why, it's empty rhetoric. I have respect for what pioneers have started, but you have to update your thinking to remain relevant.

Wasn't it Marx (Groucho, not Karl) who said "irrelevant never forgets"... I couldn't resist 1smile.gif
"Swift generally gets you to the right way much quicker." - auxio -
"He who laughs, lasts!" - Mary Pettibone Poole -
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"Swift generally gets you to the right way much quicker." - auxio -
"He who laughs, lasts!" - Mary Pettibone Poole -
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  • Computing pioneer Alan Kay calls Apple's iPad user interface 'poor'
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