or Connect
AppleInsider › Forums › General › General Discussion › Fragmentation means nearly half of Android users won't get Facebook Home
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

Fragmentation means nearly half of Android users won't get Facebook Home - Page 2

post #41 of 70

40% of Android users wont get it until they upgrade their phones (if they want it) - and - 100% of iOS users will never see it, regardless if they want it or upgrade their phones to a newer iPhone.

 

yeah, the stupidity of this argument is amazing.

post #42 of 70
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacRulez View Post

100% of iOS won't get FB Home either.

 

 

100% of Android devices can't run numerous Apps I have on my iPhone because they simply don't exist on Android. If I write an iOS App and target iOS 6 I'll have around 80% of users able to run my App. Has any version of Android ever hit 80%? Maybe the very first one did but as soon as the updates rolled out it turned into a fragmented mess.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Takeiteasy View Post


What hardware limitation for not supporting Siri in iphone 4? And Siri came out less than a year after I bought the latest iphone at that time.

 

The A5 chip has a sound processor in it that improves Siri voice recognition. People have hacked Siri on the iPhone 4, but they do very "carefully controlled" tests to make it seem like it works perfectly when in fact it doesn't.

 

Apple's decision to make Siri 4S and above has more to do with quality control. They want Siri to perform to a minimum level and the 4 doesn't live up to their expectations.

Author of The Fuel Injection Bible

Reply

Author of The Fuel Injection Bible

Reply
post #43 of 70

No Facebook Home?! This is a bad thing?

post #44 of 70
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacRulez View Post

100% of iOS won't get FB Home either.

How does this Android news affect Apple?

Maybe I typed the wrong URL - is this AndroidInsider?

1. It doesn't.

2. You know you didn't come here for "Apple news."

"Apple should pull the plug on the iPhone."

John C. Dvorak, 2007
Reply

"Apple should pull the plug on the iPhone."

John C. Dvorak, 2007
Reply
post #45 of 70
Quote:
Originally Posted by EricTheHalfBee View Post

100% of Android devices can't run numerous Apps I have on my iPhone because they simply don't exist on Android. If I write an iOS App and target iOS 6 I'll have around 80% of users able to run my App. Has any version of Android ever hit 80%? Maybe the very first one did but as soon as the updates rolled out it turned into a fragmented mess.


The A5 chip has a sound processor in it that improves Siri voice recognition. People have hacked Siri on the iPhone 4, but they do very "carefully controlled" tests to make it seem like it works perfectly when in fact it doesn't.

Apple's decision to make Siri 4S and above has more to do with quality control. They want Siri to perform to a minimum level and the 4 doesn't live up to their expectations.

Siri's voice recognition takes place on a server, not on the device. Google's voice search app works on an iPhone 4 just as well as it does on a 4S doesn't it? Your argument is invalid.
post #46 of 70
Quote:
Originally Posted by wakefinance View Post

Siri's voice recognition takes place on a server, not on the device. Google's voice search app works on an iPhone 4 just as well as it does on a 4S doesn't it? Your argument is invalid.

So Apple added a sound processor chip just for grins?

While much of the processing takes place on the server, the phone is also involved.

Quote:
Originally Posted by EricTheHalfBee View Post

100% of Android devices can't run numerous Apps I have on my iPhone because they simply don't exist on Android. If I write an iOS App and target iOS 6 I'll have around 80% of users able to run my App. Has any version of Android ever hit 80%? Maybe the very first one did but as soon as the updates rolled out it turned into a fragmented mess.

Even more importantly, it's not hard to write an app that will run on all recent versions of iOS. It must be difficult on Android because so many apps require the latest version (which, of course, most current phones will never get).
"I'm way over my head when it comes to technical issues like this"
Gatorguy 5/31/13
Reply
"I'm way over my head when it comes to technical issues like this"
Gatorguy 5/31/13
Reply
post #47 of 70
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta View Post

So Apple added a sound processor chip just for grins?

While much of the processing takes place on the server, the phone is also involved.
Even more importantly, it's not hard to write an app that will run on all recent versions of iOS. It must be difficult on Android because so many apps require the latest version (which, of course, most current phones will never get).

I can't tell you why they added that chip, but I can jokingly speculate that they did it to fool people into thinking that Siri wouldn't work on the iPhone 4. Siri does all processing on the servers. You can't use it without a data connection. If Siri still worked for device specific commands, like adding calendar appointments or texting somebody, then I would say you've got a point. It doesn't though; you can't even use speech to text without a data connection.
post #48 of 70
FB just hit the wall creating this for Android. "largest" mobile OS worldwide is also the most fragmented OS. Love my iPhone, I see no reason to want this thing. checking FB once or twice a day is plenty for me. I don't need FB feed 24/7. Clearly, i'm not their target audience. 1frown.gif
post #49 of 70
Quote:
Originally Posted by EricTheHalfBee View Post

100% of Android devices can't run numerous Apps I have on my iPhone because they simply don't exist on Android. If I write an iOS App and target iOS 6 I'll have around 80% of users able to run my App. Has any version of Android ever hit 80%? Maybe the very first one did but as soon as the updates rolled out it turned into a fragmented mess.


The A5 chip has a sound processor in it that improves Siri voice recognition. People have hacked Siri on the iPhone 4, but they do very "carefully controlled" tests to make it seem like it works perfectly when in fact it doesn't.

Apple's decision to make Siri 4S and above has more to do with quality control. They want Siri to perform to a minimum level and the 4 doesn't live up to their expectations.

In regards to Siri, there are several technical reasons that Apple might not have included iPhone 4:
  • Faster CPU
  • Faster cellular - HSDPA 14.4 and HSPA+ (improves beyond HSDPA 7.2 and HSUPA 5.76)
  • Faster Wi-Fi
  • Improved baseband resulting in greater transmit and receive diversity
  • Apple 338S0987 B0FL1129 SGP noise processor (replaces Audience noise processor)

There are also marketing reasons that Apple may not have included Siri on iPhone 4:
  • Marquee feature unique to iPhone 4S and higher models
  • Planned obsolescence

All vendors plan for obsolescence since supporting legacy products becomes increasing challenging as new models are released.

Given that Apple has often supported complex features in older products it is likely the reasons are at least as much technical as marketing.
post #50 of 70
Originally Posted by Takeiteasy View Post
What hardware limitation for not supporting Siri in iphone 4? And Siri came out less than a year after I bought the latest iphone at that time.

 

The ir sensor so that the iPhone knows it's next to your face when you're not making a phone call:

 

Siri raise-to-speak feature uses modified iPhone 4S proximity sensor

post #51 of 70
Quote:
Originally Posted by Superbass View Post

Is "fragmentation" also the reason my iPhone 4 can't run Siri?

There are also a number of of apps/features that work on my phone that don't work on an iPhone 3.

Who said that the iPhone 4 can't run Siri? You must be mistaking the choice to not include Siri on an extra 100 million devices simply because it can access the Siri servers. Surely you're aware that Siri was a new service, that Siri is still in Beta, and that the first weekend with only a few million devices accessing it they had access issues, so why think that Siri would somehow work better by allowing all previous Apple devices that technically can connect to the Siri servers. You've clearly not thought this through.

"The real haunted empire?  It's the New York Times." ~SockRolid

"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

Reply

"The real haunted empire?  It's the New York Times." ~SockRolid

"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

Reply
post #52 of 70
Quote:
Originally Posted by wakefinance View Post

Siri's voice recognition takes place on a server, not on the device. Google's voice search app works on an iPhone 4 just as well as it does on a 4S doesn't it? Your argument is invalid.
Wrong. The final processing takes place on the server. The initial processing of the audio takes place on the phone. The chip is not used to convert audio into actual text - it's used to make sure the audio is of sufficient quality in the first place before it gets to the servers. Yes Siri will work on a 4, but with a lower quality audio source the chance of errors is higher.

What Google does is irrelevant since they likely use a different technology from Apple.

Author of The Fuel Injection Bible

Reply

Author of The Fuel Injection Bible

Reply
post #53 of 70
Quote:
Originally Posted by EricTheHalfBee View Post

Wrong. The final processing takes place on the server. The initial processing of the audio takes place on the phone. The chip is not used to convert audio into actual text - it's used to make sure the audio is of sufficient quality in the first place before it gets to the servers. Yes Siri will work on a 4, but with a lower quality audio source the chance of errors is higher.

What Google does is irrelevant since they likely use a different technology from Apple.

Please cite that. I'll gladly admit I was wrong if you can prove that you're right. Otherwise the point goes to me because all evidence points to server-side processing.
post #54 of 70
It's sad when the majority of the android community has gingerbread, one of the buggiest versions of android....
post #55 of 70
Just wondering: how many iOS users will have Facebook Home?
post #56 of 70
do you know that about half of the iOS users can't use Siri? Isn't it worse that even without having the 'fragmentation' issue (a big issue only to Apple Fans?) iOS users can't use the Apps developed by Apple?
post #57 of 70

Originally Posted by KDarling View Post

It's like the way that 45% of all iPhones ever sold can't use Siri.

 

Which is worse, millions who cannot use Siri, or millions who cannot use Facebook Home?

 

Neither seems like a huge tragedy.

Originally Posted by Superbass View Post

Is "fragmentation" also the reason my iPhone 4 can't run Siri?

There are also a number of of apps/features that work on my phone that don't work on an iPhone 3.
 
Sigh, I will try an analogy as it seems there are people who don't understand the difference between the Android OS software fragmentation issue compared to iPhone hardware obsolescence.
 
Buying a brand new Android handset with Gingerbread 2.3 is like buying a brand new steam locomotive, whereas an iPhone 3GS upgraded to 6.1.3 is like a ten year old Abrams battle tank refitted with new engines, guns and armor.
 
The brand new steam locomotive running Gingerbread can still only run on rails and use only coal or wood for locomotion, even though it is brand new.
The Gingerbread steam engine uses old CB radio tech, so it's unable to take advantage of modern satellite communication which the diesel and electric locos use.  This brand new steam locomotive can't communicate with many of the older diesel locos using the modern satellite tech.
 
In contrast the ten year old 3GS Abrams can go anywhere, even though the main body is ten years old, it has become more flexible and deadly because it's been fitted with the latest tracks, more efficient engine, more accurate guidance systems etc.
It has been fitted with the latest communications so it can use the same satellite links as the other current military hardware.
 
The 4S and 5 tank uses a new vehicle frame and twin engines in order to cope with the much heavier Siri antiballistic missile system, a system too heavy for an Abrams to carry.
Nevertheless the 3GS, 4, 4S and 5 tanks all share the same iOS 6 modifications, so they all benefit from having the latest common modules which are freely interchangeable between the tanks.
post #58 of 70
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacBook Pro View Post


In regards to Siri, there are several technical reasons that Apple might not have included iPhone 4:
  • Faster CPU
  • Faster cellular - HSDPA 14.4 and HSPA+ (improves beyond HSDPA 7.2 and HSUPA 5.76)
  • Faster Wi-Fi
  • Improved baseband resulting in greater transmit and receive diversity
  • Apple 338S0987 B0FL1129 SGP noise processor (replaces Audience noise processor)

There are also marketing reasons that Apple may not have included Siri on iPhone 4:
  • Marquee feature unique to iPhone 4S and higher models
  • Planned obsolescence

All vendors plan for obsolescence since supporting legacy products becomes increasing challenging as new models are released.

Given that Apple has often supported complex features in older products it is likely the reasons are at least as much technical as marketing.

 

People seem to be forgetting that Siri wasn't an internally-developed technology. Apple bought a company that already had an app on the app store (which ran on the iPhone 3G).

 

The reasons for Siri being limited to newer phones are purely business-related.

post #59 of 70
Quote:
Originally Posted by EricTheHalfBee View Post

Wrong. The final processing takes place on the server. The initial processing of the audio takes place on the phone. The chip is not used to convert audio into actual text - it's used to make sure the audio is of sufficient quality in the first place before it gets to the servers. Yes Siri will work on a 4, but with a lower quality audio source the chance of errors is higher.

 

Correct.  As you said, it would still work, though.

 

  • The iPhone 4 had a separate Audience speech processor.
  • The iPhone 4S built the second generation Audience processor into its SoC.
  • The iPhone 5 did the same, but it's apparently not being used, perhaps due to a patent fight.

 

The primary reason for Apple requiring the second generation processor was reportedly because of its ability to filter speech when the device was held far away from the mouth.

 

With the iPhone 5, Apple has apparently switched to its own preprocessor built by Cirrus, and using multiple microphones for noise canceling.  No one knows if Siri uses it or not.

 

What Google does is irrelevant since they likely use a different technology from Apple.
 

True, but it's another data point proving that special hardware isn't necessary to do voice recognition.

post #60 of 70
Poor people won't get this horrible useless launcher!
post #61 of 70

Those on Android who can't run it are the lucky ones in my opinion.

post #62 of 70
Yikes, I wonder how having an OS running on top of another OS will affect battery life, and data usage for that matter? I do a WHOLE lot of other things with my phone besides check facebook, i suspect many others do as well.
post #63 of 70
Quote:
Originally Posted by FjordPrefect View Post

Yikes, I wonder how having an OS running on top of another OS will affect battery life, and data usage for that matter? I do a WHOLE lot of other things with my phone besides check facebook, i suspect many others do as well.

Based on the videos I've seen there is more going on with the effects which could negatively affect battery life but I wouldn't call it an OS atop another OS. There is no virtualization like you get with a VM. Since Android is open source, it's merely a new UI layer just as countless other vendors have done with Android. The benefit goes to Facebook as they can make a single UI that will be used across a lot more devices than say what is available from just HTC or Samsung. I'm sure we'll know exactly how much it affects the battery life soon enough.

"The real haunted empire?  It's the New York Times." ~SockRolid

"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

Reply

"The real haunted empire?  It's the New York Times." ~SockRolid

"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

Reply
post #64 of 70
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

Since Android is open source, it's merely a new UI layer just as countless other vendors have done with Android. 

 

This has nothing to do with open source.   It's about the OS having public APIs to do things that some other OSes (e.g. iOS - (*)) reserve for themselves.

 

This is simply a replacement launcher, which is basically the app that runs when you click the Home button.  With Android, any user can replace the stock launcher(s) with one of their own choice.

 

There are many such replacements available for Android.  They might display big icons / SMS / email for seniors, or can be an iOS lookalike, or have fancy 3D animations, or the ability to download other people's created looks.

 

There's a HTML based launcher that's quite beautiful on tablets, using the extra screen space well, that started on Kickstarter.  Supposedly you can write your own HTML widgets for it.

 

There are also kid oriented launchers, for devices that children are using.  Those launchers let the parent lock down the icons so they can't be accidentally moved or removed, prevent displaying notifications, and only show the apps that you allow.

 

You can even set things up so that you pick which launcher to use each time you click Home, although that's better just for testing.

 

Heck, the second Android app I ever wrote was a simple replacement launcher for my wife, so she couldn't mess up her icons.  (The first app was a live wallpaper that changed photos per homepage.)  It was a lot more interesting than writing user apps for iOS or Android or RIM or WM.

 

(*) If you jailbreak your iPhone, then you can use a replacement launcher.


Edited by KDarling - 4/5/13 at 1:07pm
post #65 of 70
Quote:
Originally Posted by KDarling View Post

This has nothing to do with open source.

So Android isn't open source. Got it!
Quote:
It's about the OS having public APIs to do things that some other OSes (e.g. iOS - (*)) reserve for themselves.

So iOS doesn't have APIs for 3rd-party developers. Got it!
Quote:
This is simply a replacement launcher

Just a launcher with absolutely no other changes to the system. Got it!

Keep up the good work¡
Edited by SolipsismX - 4/5/13 at 3:50pm

"The real haunted empire?  It's the New York Times." ~SockRolid

"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

Reply

"The real haunted empire?  It's the New York Times." ~SockRolid

"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

Reply
post #66 of 70
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blitz1 View Post

Just wondering: how many iOS users will have Facebook Home?

Just wondering: how many Android users have iOS?

"Apple should pull the plug on the iPhone."

John C. Dvorak, 2007
Reply

"Apple should pull the plug on the iPhone."

John C. Dvorak, 2007
Reply
post #67 of 70
Originally Posted by Suddenly Newton View Post
Just wondering: how many Android users have iOS?

 

All of them.

 

Hey, bastardized is bastardized.

 

"Does that mean iOS has malware and viruses and is insecure?"

No.

 

"YOU DON'T GET TO HAVE IT BOT—"

 

Yes, we do.

Originally Posted by Slurpy

There's just a TINY chance that Apple will also be able to figure out payments. Oh wait, they did already… …and you’re already fucked.

 

Reply

Originally Posted by Slurpy

There's just a TINY chance that Apple will also be able to figure out payments. Oh wait, they did already… …and you’re already fucked.

 

Reply
post #68 of 70
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

So Android isn't open source. Got it!
So iOS doesn't have APIs for 3rd-party developers. Got it!
Just a launcher with absolutely no other changes to the system. Got it!

 

Judging from those unrelated comments, you obviously do not "get it" at all.

 

  • Writing replacement Android launchers does not require any access to OS source code.
  • iOS does not provide public APIs for writing replacement launchers.  Android does.
  • Yes, it's just a launcher with no other changes to the system. 

 

Android launchers are apps like any other app, and can be written and distributed and downloaded and installed or changed by anyone.

 

Instead of being sarcastic, why not just ask and learn?

post #69 of 70
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gazoobee View Post

iOS still has hands down better old device support than Android of any flavour, and an iPhone of any number is still more likely to run new software than any other phone.  

(I think that there should be a rule that this is appended to any comments of the "my old iPhone doesn't do this or that" variety).  

Also worth noting that the reason your old iPhone won't do this or that always has a hardware related reason that makes it impossible.  It's not an arbitrary limiting of the device or even just because they don't have the time or the inclination to support it.  

It kills me how many people complain about this stuff as if they had a valid complaint when they clearly do not.   Apple promises that if you buy a device from them that you will get two full number versions of software that run on it and all the point upgrades as well.  Often even though it isn't promised, you get three (and all the updates).  Again, more than any Android phone ever.  

This is exactly the problem.

Android devices are not being updated to the latest version... even when the hardware is capable. The Android vendors would rather you shell out for a new phone every year than update the old one. All the Android devices out there running 1.6 could just as easily run 4.x if their hardware manufacturer and wireless carrier would do it. But no instead it's "not fiscially prudent" ... yes it's not financially viable to support Android, there's your answer.

Meanwhile Apple updates all the iPhones with the latest iOS until the hardware is not capable of running it. Sure it may be disappointing when the hardware changes substantially and Apple chooses to no longer support those devices (see first generation iPhone, PPC Macs, CoreDuo macs, and all models running intel graphics parts prior to sandy bridge) but this is after several years... not months like the Android devices.

One of the reasons that I haven't even considered an Android device to date is that none of the hardware vendors seem to care to support their devices for more than one year. Consider that all phones are on 3 year contracts here, why would I want to beholden to the carrier for a device that becomes a piece of junk after the first year?
post #70 of 70
Very few people like Facebook Home - its lack of widgets is the letdown
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: General Discussion
AppleInsider › Forums › General › General Discussion › Fragmentation means nearly half of Android users won't get Facebook Home