or Connect
AppleInsider › Forums › Mobile › iPhone › Samsung pre-announces earnings, profits surge 53% to $7.7 billion
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

Samsung pre-announces earnings, profits surge 53% to $7.7 billion - Page 2

post #41 of 64

Think Apple will mirror this with an earnings beat, but revenue miss?

post #42 of 64
Quote:
Originally Posted by raymondinperth View Post

I wonder how long it needs to grow that it earns as much as Apple .

Doesn't matter. They're earning and earning well above everyone else except for Apple.
"Few things are harder to put up with than the annoyance of a good example" Mark Twain
"Just because something is deemed the law doesn't make it just" - SolipsismX
Reply
"Few things are harder to put up with than the annoyance of a good example" Mark Twain
"Just because something is deemed the law doesn't make it just" - SolipsismX
Reply
post #43 of 64
Quote:
Originally Posted by anantksundaram View Post

(Re: recognition of sales) Do you notice any differences?

 

Yes, I'm familiar with those.  Apple records a sale when shipped.  Samsung records the sale when delivered.

 

Both companies record the sale when the burden of ownership has passed to someone else and payment is assured.

 

Notice also that with Samsung, "if product sales are subject to customer acceptance, revenue is not recognized until customer acceptance occurs".

 

Quote:

3) What evidence do you have for your claim that "US retailer buying rebounded a couple of quarters later," ...

 

Not a claim.  Fact.  Court records from last year's Koh trial gave us Samsung's US tablet sales:

 

2010 Q4 = 262K   (Samsung reported "smooth" initial end user sales

2011 Q1 =  77K    (Down quarter that showed initial end user sales were slow.)

2011 Q2 = 266K   (Sales rebounded after the Q4 stock got sold.)

2011 Q3 = 293K   (Sales not only rebounded, they climbed.)

2011 Q4 = 347K

 

Quote:
4) I did not know that "retailer overbuying" was a problem for Apple "a couple of quarters last year." Please tell us more. Where did you see/read/hear about this?

 

Okay, you must not follow Apple very closely at all.  Others here know very well about it.

 

Last year, I heard about it from Tim Cook during two quarterly earnings calls, just like everyone else.  The first time was explaining why iPhone sales were down far more than could be expected from people simply holding off for a new model.  Cook had to explain that the previous quarter's sales into retailers were 2.6 million more than were actually sold through to end users during that quarter.

 

Quote:
And so what that did was, it increased sell in over sell through by 2.6 million units. - Tim Cook 3FQ12

 

 Similarly, in the 4FQ12 earnings call, Cook had to again explain that a 3 million (18%) drop in iPad sales had occurred for the same reason:  retailers had bought too many the previous quarter and were holding back buying more while they sold their extra inventory.

 

Every company has quarters where sales drop because of retailers overbuying the previous quarter.  In most cases, the inventory eventually sells, so it all works out over time.

post #44 of 64
Quote:
Originally Posted by CentralParkMac View Post

It is time for Apple to pull up their socks and fix all their bugs. They are losing market share to their biggest rivals in Samsung.

Um no there not they actually gained market share against shamelessung in the US these last two quarters: 

http://appleinsider.com/articles/13/04/04/apple-extends-lead-over-samsung-gains-on-google-in-us-smartphone-market

post #45 of 64
Quote:
Originally Posted by Apple ][ View Post

Yeah, the Surface in the article is some huge table.

 

However, it's listed in the timeline for 2008, while the iPhone, which came out in 2007 is nowhere to be found on that timeline.

 

Reading that article was like reading the history of WWII, written by a skinhead.

+1

post #46 of 64
Quote:
Originally Posted by ankleskater View Post


I too worry about other Android makers in the shadow of Samsung. HTC is paying attention. Their latest designs are ripped from someone's pages.

 

 

iPhone 5  Apple.
post #47 of 64
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogifan 

 

 

 
And since the S4 has already been announced I'd be curious to know what this new product lineup is that's going to "upend the market".
 

The GS4 version 2 and GS4 version 3 one will have more memory and the other a faster processor¡/s

And anyalists will fawn all over themselves in gushing admiration of Shamelessungs innovation.

post #48 of 64
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ireland View Post

Good point, but regardless their phones will be the majority of that.
Wrong. Last quarter their mobile division was around 48% of the total revenues. And that includes dumb phones, feature phones, smartphones and tablets. Samsung might not give detailed sales, but their quarterly earnings result do break things down by division.

Author of The Fuel Injection Bible

Reply

Author of The Fuel Injection Bible

Reply
post #49 of 64
Quote:
Originally Posted by EricTheHalfBee View Post

Wrong. Last quarter their mobile division was around 48% of the total revenues. And that includes dumb phones, feature phones, smartphones and tablets. Samsung might not give detailed sales, but their quarterly earnings result do break things down by division.
How much does their mobile division contribute to the bottom line?
post #50 of 64
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogifan View Post

How much does their mobile division contribute to the bottom line?
Now that I don't know since Samsung didn't break out that portion. Mobile did 27 trillion won, but IM did 31 trillion and Mobile is a division of IM.

IM had 5.4 trillion won operating profit last quarter so Monile was likely most of it. Though its odd Samsung would choose not to break out Mobile in operating profit when they did in revenues.

Author of The Fuel Injection Bible

Reply

Author of The Fuel Injection Bible

Reply
post #51 of 64
Quote:
Originally Posted by Just_Me View Post

Sold not shipped

Neither. Shipped and invoiced for.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by SpamSandwich View Post

Ars Technica's headline:  Samsung’s string of record quarterly profits ends softly at a cool $7.7 billion

Wow! $7.7 billion! It will take them two-quarters of profit to equal their advertising budget.

"That (the) world is moving so quickly that iOS is already amongst the older mobile operating systems in active development today." — The Verge
Reply
"That (the) world is moving so quickly that iOS is already amongst the older mobile operating systems in active development today." — The Verge
Reply
post #52 of 64
Quote:
Originally Posted by Apple ][ View Post

Crime does pay, apparently.

 

Who cares about a billion dollar fine, when you've made many more billions than that in profit? And it probably won't even be a billion dollar fine. Some judge or other asshat will no doubt lower the fine.

Already lowered by an asshat judge to about half a billion.

"That (the) world is moving so quickly that iOS is already amongst the older mobile operating systems in active development today." — The Verge
Reply
"That (the) world is moving so quickly that iOS is already amongst the older mobile operating systems in active development today." — The Verge
Reply
post #53 of 64
Quote:
Originally Posted by Applelunatic View Post

Because Samsung makes every single part in their phones?  Riiiiiight.  Open a Samsung phone and you'll see many of the parts are from the same non-Samsung sources as you'll see in an iPhone.

 

Such as Sony camera sensors found in the relatively small percentage of high end handsets they sell compared to their cheap and mid range handsets. 

Better than my Bose, better than my Skullcandy's, listening to Mozart through my LeBron James limited edition PowerBeats by Dre is almost as good as my Sennheisers.
Reply
Better than my Bose, better than my Skullcandy's, listening to Mozart through my LeBron James limited edition PowerBeats by Dre is almost as good as my Sennheisers.
Reply
post #54 of 64
Quote:
Originally Posted by tzeshan View Post


Because they think Microsoft saved Apple from extinction. 

 

After the Newton.

Better than my Bose, better than my Skullcandy's, listening to Mozart through my LeBron James limited edition PowerBeats by Dre is almost as good as my Sennheisers.
Reply
Better than my Bose, better than my Skullcandy's, listening to Mozart through my LeBron James limited edition PowerBeats by Dre is almost as good as my Sennheisers.
Reply
post #55 of 64
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogifan View Post

From the Reuters article: 

 

 

"Samsung keeps investing in R&D. They've boosted their smartphone R&D workforce to 25,000 or so from less than 20,000, and I think they have an exciting product lineup ready, probably in the second half, to upend the market," said Lee Do-hoon, an analyst at RBS.
 
So Samsung has 25,000 employees just working on smartphone R&D?  Somehow I find that hard to believe.

 

Well someone is doing an awful lot of R&D for Samsung to have the second highest patent applications for a company in 2012 with 5,081 patents.  That implies a considerable workforce.

 

Samsung have two R&D centers in India that between them employ about 6,000 software engineers alone.  Samsung Electronics  have about 206,000 employees worldwide.

 

I would say the figure is very credible.

post #56 of 64

Phones

Tablets

PCs

TV sets

Washing machines

Freezers

Car and aircraft parts 

God knows what else.

 

Samsung should be making ten times the profit that Apple does. 

post #57 of 64

You have to differentiate Samsung Electronics from the rest of the Samsung conglomerate.  These figures are just for Samsung Electronics.

post #58 of 64
Quote:
Originally Posted by cnocbui View Post

Well someone is doing an awful lot of R&D for Samsung to have the second highest patent applications for a company in 2012 with 5,081 patents.  That implies a considerable workforce.

Samsung have two R&D centers in India that between them employ about 6,000 software engineers alone.  Samsung Electronics  have about 206,000 employees worldwide.

I would say the figure is very credible.
Wow with all those people working in R&D you'd think we'd get more from them than just making phone with larger screen sizes and gimmicky software features. Unless most of these employees are working in their semiconductor unit.
post #59 of 64
Quote:
Originally Posted by cnocbui View Post

You have to differentiate Samsung Electronics from the rest of the Samsung conglomerate.  These figures are just for Samsung Electronics.

Aaah. Got it.

So we're talking

Phones
Tablets
PCs
TV sets
DVD Players

Given that they make so many products across so many price ranges then I stll don't understand why they don't make at least five times what Apple makes.
post #60 of 64
Quote:
Originally Posted by KDarling View Post

1) Notice also that with Samsung, "if product sales are subject to customer acceptance, revenue is not recognized until customer acceptance occurs".

 

2) Not a claim.  Fact.  Court records from last year's Koh trial ......

 

3) Last year, I heard about it from Tim Cook during two quarterly earnings calls, just like everyone else.  The first time was explaining why iPhone sales were down far more than could be expected from people simply holding off for a new model.  Cook had to explain that the previous quarter's sales into retailers were 2.6 million more than were actually sold through to end users during that quarter.

 

4) Every company has quarters where sales drop because of retailers overbuying the previous quarter.  In most cases, the inventory eventually sells, so it all works out over time.

Thanks for the detailed response. However....

 

1) You completely ignored the point here that Apple reports channel quantity (as your own point #3 acknowledges) as well as volumes. Samsung does not. As a result, you can estimate Apple's actual sales (and average selling price) quite precisely, but with Samsung, you cannot.

 

2) The court records data you provide relate to an early stage in the life of Samsung's product. Not only are the data very stale and the numbers laughably low (perhaps one-tenth to one-twentieth of Apple's tablet sales), but they are also incredibly volatile because the product had just been introduced. If anything, the fact that you are only able to trot out two-year old volume data tells us that it's impossibly difficult to figure out what Samsung actually sold.

 

3) Granted. But again, the point is, given Cook's numbers, we can precisely estimate Apple's actual sales (ref, point #1 above).

 

4) Perhaps. With Apple, we know that it does since we can actually figure it out. With Samsung, all we have are stale data for a product that barely sells (and from such an early stage in its life cycle to be useless), and you are using that to extrapolate to a product (handsets) that Samsung claims they 'sell' in the many tens of millions.

 

Unconvincing.

 

The bottom line is, if things are as good as Samsung says it is, they would provide more honest, comprehensive, current data. They used to. They now don't, for some reason. (What do you think that reason is?).

post #61 of 64
Quote:
Originally Posted by cnocbui View Post

Well someone is doing an awful lot of R&D for Samsung to have the second highest patent applications for a company in 2012 with 5,081 patents.  That implies a considerable workforce.

 

Samsung have two R&D centers in India that between them employ about 6,000 software engineers alone.  Samsung Electronics  have about 206,000 employees worldwide.

If that's the case, I'd have to say that, both on a per-employee and per-dollar basis, their workforce is pathetically unproductive compared to Apple's.

post #62 of 64
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rayz View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by cnocbui View Post

You have to differentiate Samsung Electronics from the rest of the Samsung conglomerate.  These figures are just for Samsung Electronics.

Aaah. Got it.

So we're talking

Phones
Tablets
PCs
TV sets
DVD Players

Given that they make so many products across so many price ranges then I stll don't understand why they don't make at least five times what Apple makes.

Actually, it's much lower.

 

Samsung Electronics falls into two broad categories: consumer electronics (PCs, DVDs, TVs etc) and telecom (mobile devices incl. phones/tablets and telecom equipment). Samsung does not break out revenue or operating profit for devices v. equipment, but even if we attribute all of the telecom segment sales to devices, it is less than two-thirds (2012 data) of SE sales.

 

So, the operating profit from devices are at most 7.7*0.67 = $5.16B. 

post #63 of 64

Seeing u say this , I can feel the great work done by the market .

 

Next year today , Apple will be hitting its 52 weeks high . Wanna laugh at me? Yes, laugh me now. lol.gif

post #64 of 64
Quote:
Originally Posted by Just_Me View Post

Didnt know you could profit from shipped items that have to be repurchased backed later on


Korean GAAP reports sales in NET SALES, meaning Sales - (Returns + Discounts) = NET SALES.


So those numbers takes into consideration after the fact.

"Like I said before, share price will dip into the $400."  - 11/21/12 by Galbi

Reply

"Like I said before, share price will dip into the $400."  - 11/21/12 by Galbi

Reply
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: iPhone
AppleInsider › Forums › Mobile › iPhone › Samsung pre-announces earnings, profits surge 53% to $7.7 billion