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Former Apple SVP of Retail Ron Johnson ousted from JCPenney - Page 2

post #41 of 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by Apple ][ View Post

Make them sign some sort of longterm contract, where there would be penalties if they left before their contract expired.

You want to leave? Fine, that'll cost you a few hundred million.

You, my friend, are in complete and utter violation of The First Rule of Holes.
post #42 of 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by tundraboy View Post

You think Apple cares as much about its stock price as you or I do?

 

Well, they should care, that's part of the problem IMO. 

post #43 of 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by gijoeinla View Post


Um, Johnson came from Target...

I take your point and I'm not a big fan of Target....but Target is way better than JC Penny's. :)

post #44 of 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by city View Post

This is not good for JCPenny. JCPenny needs to distinguish itself somehow. Johnson was the person to do it. They should have continued to believe in him. They compete directly with Target at many locations, and Target looks relatively upscale. Without a reinvention, JCPenny doesn't have much of a chance especially when they hire a person who was already a part of their problem.

Well said. :)

post #45 of 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mindcrime View Post

That is unfortunate that he was let go.  I usually would never shop at JCP but after he started I thought I would give it a try due to the more honest pricing.  I really liked the store, the pricing, but did feel that inventory was lacking in some areas.  I think it is too bad that they will go back to the sale frenzy that so many stores go to.  I just want to buy my clothes at a good price, not look for coupons and JCP Credit card only sales.  I won't shop at Khol's because everything is a sale, or better sale if you put in on their credit card, and the clothes are not that great.  I refuse to take out one of their credit cards just so I can get the big "sale". I will also not spend my time trying to find the latest and greatest coupon that works from 1pm-4pm on some random Saturday.  I guess I will have to find some other place to get my clothes now.  

If you're slim...try H&M! :)

post #46 of 75
There is a lot of stupid in this thread today.

Many probably don't know that Apple lets employees leave for a year hiatus if they'd like and their job will be waiting for them.

Ron had no where else to go at Apple, so he chose to pursue a CEO position and it didn't work out. Both parties would be fools to not go back to the way things were.
post #47 of 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by tundraboy View Post

Kind of immature point of view.

 

I'm not sure I agree. I understand the argument that one must offer competitive packages to attract good people, but sweet hoogly moogly the definition of "competitive" has become can't-even-get-your-head-around-it astro-freakin-nomical these days. Seriously. At some point, someone somewhere has to say "ENOUGH" and start reeling executive packages back into the realm of reason.

 

I'm not anti-wealth or anything, but I am pro-common sense, and to me the remuneration this miniscule sector is receiving exceeds the threshold of just about any definition of "reasonable." When one guy makes more than 500-1000 employees combined, that's way beyond the point of being utterly vulgar. I refuse to accept that any  individual adds THAT much value to a company.

post #48 of 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by Apple ][ View Post

 

Make them sign some sort of longterm contract, where there would be penalties if they left before their contract expired.

 

You want to leave? Fine, that'll cost you a few hundred million.

 

Um, I'm pretty sure that shit would be illegal. Also, he was at Apple for 11 years. How long should the initial contract have been? 20 years? Try to think through what you say once in a while and consider if it makes any sense at all in a practical situation. 

 

On another point, it's sad how JCPenney rehired their OLD CEO, which they had decided to replace, and under whose tenure the company was already sliding downwards heavily. I'm not sure how that makes any sense at all. Yeah, let's just rehire the guy that was so bad that we decided to replace. 

 

As for going back to Apple, I wouldn't care either way. The fact that he decided to leave implies that he did all that he set out to do at Apple, and quite honestly I don't see what sweeping changes Apple retail needs. It's pretty damn close to perfect, and does not need to be reinvented again. They're doing quite well without him and opening new stores all the time. Whether he can continue to contribute something positive is not a given. 


Edited by Slurpy - 4/8/13 at 4:22pm
post #49 of 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by Apple ][ View Post

 

Make them sign some sort of longterm contract, where there would be penalties if they left before their contract expired.

 

You want to leave? Fine, that'll cost you a few hundred million.

 

I sure wouldn't sign one of those. Beyond the few years needed to fully vest stock options, not much more is needed. You mentioned the options he vested. He had already fulfilled a 'long term commitment' to be eligible for those… more than once. Eleven years at a job is not exactly high turnover, and when offered a CEO position in a well-established company with a challenging run ahead, I don't think anyone at Apple spited him for wanting to give it a go.

 

I'm willing to bet they even said 'you're welcome back anytime' and meant it.

 

I've lived decades in the corporate world, and at the executive level bridges aren't burnt simply for going off to try something new. He didn't leave on bad terms. 

 

You may think he earned too much, but he helped build the single largest, most profitable retail machine of all time. He received a fraction of a percent of the resulting profit in "bonus" pay…  it's all relative, I guess. But to some, it was money well earned. He also no doubt gave up quite a few outstanding options to change horses. Do you know about "opportunity cost"? People like Johnson often operate with that in mind...

post #50 of 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by DimMok View Post

Bring back the Ron

And mail out some coupons. 10% off all Macs.
post #51 of 75

Not to mention that Ron's old position just HAPPENS to be wide open at the moment. No-one else better to fill those shoes than someone that helped build them...

 

I think it's kismet, synchronicity, the universe trying to tell Apple and Johnson that the jig is up and it's time to get back together… ;)

 

I personally wouldn't mind. He rocked as the SVP of Retail.

post #52 of 75

If he had gone to another company that was related to Apple's business, such as Google or Samsung, I would fiercely object to him going back. But taking into account that he went to a department shop to take the position of CEO, then I can't blame him. He obviously had reached his highest position possible at Apple and you can't blame a person for wanting to embark in new roles that promotes professional self growth. And since the position at Apple is currently vacant, its perfect. Apple was looking to fill the void Ron had left, and the candidate they chose was not fit for the job.

 

Who, in their right minds, would object to having back an old employee (like the prodigal son), who left to embark in new professional journeys (while still showing love for Apple, such as placing iPads and iPhones in the stores and hands of the employees), that ran the position for eleven years?

 

I mean, the employees know him, he knows how Apple runs, he's brilliant at what he does... It's a perfect timing. If we have Apple announcing in any time soon that Ron will be rejoining the ranks, who knows, maybe they even had a hand on it.

 

In my opinion,JCPenney did a horrible move ousting Johnson and Tim Cook would be stupid if he didnt take him back.

post #53 of 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by v5v View Post

 

I'm not sure I agree. I understand the argument that one must offer competitive packages to attract good people, but sweet hoogly moogly the definition of "competitive" has become can't-even-get-your-head-around-it astro-freakin-nomical these days. Seriously. At some point, someone somewhere has to say "ENOUGH" and start reeling executive packages back into the realm of reason.

 

I'm not anti-wealth or anything, but I am pro-common sense, and to me the remuneration this miniscule sector is receiving exceeds the threshold of just about any definition of "reasonable." When one guy makes more than 500-1000 employees combined, that's way beyond the point of being utterly vulgar. I refuse to accept that any  individual adds THAT much value to a company.


I believe someone's pay should not be limited by what is "reasonable" or beyond. The marketplace should dictate pay. If a big, dying company desperately wants to hire a proven superstar from Apple and give him an "utterly vulgar" salary I am all for it. JCP felt he was worth it at that moment in time. Now they don't.

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post #54 of 75

JC Penny = Not designed in California by Apple.

Sent from my iPhone Simulator

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Sent from my iPhone Simulator

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post #55 of 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by tribalogical View Post

Not to mention that Ron's old position just HAPPENS to be wide open at the moment. No-one else better to fill those shoes than someone that helped build them...

 

I think it's kismet, synchronicity, the universe trying to tell Apple and Johnson that the jig is up and it's time to get back together… ;)

 

I personally wouldn't mind. He rocked as the SVP of Retail.

 

When Tim Cook announced the departure of Browett and Forstall but left Browett's spot open, I posted that given what's going on at JCP at the time, Tim's probably leaving the retail job open just in case.  Well, that case has arisen.  I don't call that kismet or synchronicity, I call that well played so far.  'So far' only because he still have to land his fish.

post #56 of 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by BrianCPA View Post

What a shame. Now, JCP can raise their prices 25% and then offer customers a 20% off coupons and watch the foolish shoppers come roaring back through the doors to "catch a great sale". It's a huge disappointment that his philosophy didn't work because, after all, they were one of very few stores running an honest, open, and fair pricing policy.

Well said and I agree 100%

I never shop there but his choices made me actually walk in and enjoy the experience.

Just goes to show, people are ignorant.

JCP can go right back to their honey boo boo coupon queens.
post #57 of 75
Screw Ron Johnson, I had the idea for the Genius Bar and retail store before he did, I have been a loyal Mac Addict from the very beginning. Give me that job! Lol!
post #58 of 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by BrianCPA View Post

What a shame. Now, JCP can raise their prices 25% and then offer customers a 20% off coupons and watch the foolish shoppers come roaring back through the doors to "catch a great sale". It's a huge disappointment that his philosophy didn't work because, after all, they were one of very few stores running an honest, open, and fair pricing policy.

I have always liked JCP and I like the way it was. Okay, I know it's all smoke and mirrors on the discounts, but who cares. I like to get a deal even if I'm deluding myself. 

 

It was fine after Ron made changes. The stores look nicer now, not that they were bad before. They feel more spacious. 

 

I think Ron tried to change things too quickly and didn't think about his base. Who knows. 

post #59 of 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by StephanJobs View Post


Well said and I agree 100%

I never shop there but his choices made me actually walk in and enjoy the experience.

Just goes to show, people are ignorant.

JCP can go right back to their honey boo boo coupon queens.

Ah, an elitist. We are not all ignorant. Some of us have advanced degrees in information technology and work in information architecture and do like to shop there. It's your standard middle-class store, so you are right about people being ignorant, and its not the shoppers...but those making insulting comments.

post #60 of 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by tundraboy View Post

When Tim Cook announced the departure of Browett and Forstall but left Browett's spot open, I posted that given what's going on at JCP at the time, Tim's probably leaving the retail job open just in case.  Well, that case has arisen.  I don't call that kismet or synchronicity, I call that well played so far.  'So far' only because he still have to land his fish.
Isn't it possible they left Browett's position open because they really didn't have anyone to fill it yet and probably are being extra careful considering the disaster Browett was? Ron Johnson's reputation right now is implementing a failed strategy at JCP. Why would bringing him back to Apple be a good thing?
post #61 of 75
This shows why JC Penney is a failed company: they don't even recognize great talent when they have it. It takes more than a few quarters to turn a sinking ship around, and now they've really blown it big time by firing Ron. Ron was the only one who could've helped such a disgusting, bottom-of-the-barrel brand like JC Penney rise to any level of greatness, but nope... It's apparently in JC Penney's DNA to ALWAYS SUCK.
post #62 of 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by scotty321 View Post

This shows why JC Penney is a failed company: they don't even recognize great talent when they have it. It takes more than a few quarters to turn a sinking ship around, and now they've really blown it big time by firing Ron. Ron was the only one who could've helped such a disgusting, bottom-of-the-barrel brand like JC Penney rise to any level of greatness, but nope... It's apparently in JC Penney's DNA to ALWAYS SUCK.

Agreed! :)

post #63 of 75
Senior V.P. of Retail at Apple is equivalent to a CEO position at any retail company.. Sometimes there's nothing wrong with coming back "home".. Cook is probably making an offer to him right now to go back to Apple..
Edited by Wurm5150 - 4/8/13 at 8:39pm
post #64 of 75

Question is, will he still be as effective at Apple as he was before??

 


in any case I would give him the chance as now he will appreciate the position more.

post #65 of 75
Bring Ron back? I get that it's much easier to sell Apple products than socks & underwear from an uncool has been retailer.
Still though Apple longs already got their "free" haircuts.
post #66 of 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by Apple ][ View Post

 

Make them sign some sort of longterm contract, where there would be penalties if they left before their contract expired.

 

You want to leave? Fine, that'll cost you a few hundred million.

Apple, like many corporations, grant key employees stock options for this purpose. The options are granted on X date but aren't vested until Y date. These options are presented and given as an incentive to stay with the company which is normally viewed as a positive by an employee. Your logic is similar except in your scenario the penalty is emphasized up front and the dollar value is fixed in todays dollars whereas the value of options that vest in the future can have a tremendous upside or downside based on the companies actual performance. Based on Apples 'performance and success' in the last several years future options in AAPL stock would sure as hell make me a happy and loyal employee.


Edited by Realistic - 4/8/13 at 11:29pm

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Artificial intelligence is no match for natural stupidity.

 

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post #67 of 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by forangels View Post

Screw Ron Johnson, I had the idea for the Genius Bar and retail store before he did, I have been a loyal Mac Addict from the very beginning. Give me that job! Lol!

It appears that to be successful in business, you need both motive and opportunity. There is often the assumption that individuals who achieve great success do so entirely of their own accord. If Ron had started at JC Penney, we might never have even heard of him. There are loads of people who have the ability to do great things but not everyone gets the opportunity. It's not some cosmological alignment that makes it happen either - just the odds playing out.

How much different would the Apple retail experience be if it was just an average store? I think the store designs are great but I don't care if I buy online or in a 3rd party store. I buy Apple products for the products. How they are presented is not that important to me. The Apple Stores have a unique set of products, which isn't common in retail. With stores like JC Penney, many products or very similar ones can be found elsewhere so the comparison is the pricing model and the service. Ron Johnson's retail model didn't work without the products behind it. Apple has benefited from Ron's motive to design good stores but I'd say Ron has benefited more from the opportunity of working with the team at Apple.

It's bad that he didn't stop when he was on top because he will no longer be known only as the guy who setup Apple's successful retail operations but also the guy who nearly destroyed JC Penney. This will be especially true if Ullman turns it back around. If JC Penney fails anyway, it won't be seen as just due to the changes Ron made.
post #68 of 75
Bad timing for a talented person, Apple should bring him back
post #69 of 75

The haters of Johnson don't really understand how business relationships work do they? There's a reason the haters are probbably not employed and resort to this kind of cristicism

post #70 of 75
If you're going to be fired by anyone, I would think JCPenney falls into the not-a-problem category. Who would have a problem saying "A stale, loosely-defined, bargain store brand didn't think I was a good fit"?
post #71 of 75

Failure is necessary for success. Johnson took a risk, and failed. Now he can either let that failure destroy him or use it as the potting soil in which to plant the seeds of future success.

Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

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Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

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post #72 of 75
Unfortunately, Ron wasn't able to replace the Board of Directors with his own people like Steve Jobs did with Apple. American businesses aren't willing to wait several years for a turn around. The SF Bay Area doesn't have to many JCP stores anymore, so I wasn't able to see one of the modernized JCP stores. The closest one I could visit was located in Richmond, California, inside the most ghetto mall I've ever seen. This location seemed partway through transition and as many walls were torn out and plastic sheeting was hanging from many sections. If this was an Apple store it would be updated like this. I just don't think this guy got the capital and flexibility to update the stores properly.
post #73 of 75
ABSOLUTELY NOT!

Mr. Johnson departed Apple for something better, and for undoubtedly more money. He gave up a good thing for a gamble, which he lost. Now you think Apple is going to hire back someone who: 1) left them for something better; and 2) has now been publicly humiliated as a failure? Keep dreaming.

He is tainted goods at this point.
post #74 of 75

Return of Ron Johnson

One must understand the big difference in a J C Penny store and an Apple Store.  J C penny sells primarilly to older moms, pops and similar households My dad shops at Penny because he is familar with the store and buys the same stuff. I and others  shop at Apple because we love their products and get excited when they bring out innovative stuff. A top down change only works if you keep your base too.  Alienating your older buyers and families never helps.   I hate to see it go like Sears or K mart with very few store I think bringing Ron back would be a bad move with Apple stock as depressed as it is. 

post #75 of 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by pfisher View Post

Ah, an elitist. We are not all ignorant. Some of us have advanced degrees in information technology and work in information architecture and do like to shop there. It's your standard middle-class store, so you are right about people being ignorant, and its not the shoppers...but those making insulting comments.

Well let me start off by saying that I am far from an elitist.

I have shopped at both Walmart and Target for clothes before and I consider JCP to be much better clothing store to shop at then either of those.

My comments weren't meant to group all JCP customers as coupon queens either.

Their old business model isn't made for honesty and it angers me a bit that his direction was not received well by the JCP faithful.

If they do return to this coupon cutting model I will never feel comfortable shopping there. Something I had plan on doing in the future.

Honey boo boo was a joke man and there is no need to take it so offensively.

If you coupon clip, then good for you.

Your saving money.

Although time is money and coupon clipping consumes lots of time.

I just choose to shop where it's simpler and less confusing.

By the way, stood behind a guy once at target who took his 250$ bill down to 47$ right in front of me.

It took over 7 minutes to complete the process. But it happened. I stood there just to watch it.

Everyone was pissed because it took so long.

One guys yelled,
"Hey buddy throw us out a warning or at least let us go first!"

I congratulated him and promptly paid for my "regular" price item.

Not an elitist.

By the way, some people who are coupon clippers are considered "elitist" and view them selves as more intelligent and better than the sheep who just pay regular price for items.

I've heard a couple talk before and it wasn't pretty. .
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