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Ron Johnson could return to run Apple Retail - Page 2

post #41 of 92
Quote:
Originally Posted by mdriftmeyer View Post




You are dead wrong. Jobs funded and created every single business relationship for PIXAR, drove all business decisions and directions of PIXAR, designed their entire Campus, interviewed all key personnel and key leadership while working in a highly driven, competitive and collaborative team environment that both Catmull and Lassetter will tell you doesn't exist without Jobs.


In short, Lassetter and Catmull are worth diddly squat without Jobs and aren't leading Disney at the moment in their respective positions, without the deal Steve brokered with Disney. Neither is Iger for that matter.


Working with such leadership at NeXT and Apple taught me that most of this brilliant talent couldn't open up a lemonade stand and make a dollar without the vision and focus Steve instilled into them.
lol.gif you always seem to find a way to throw NeXT in the conversation and declare former NeXT employees the most brilliant people to ever grace the earth.
post #42 of 92

After reading those articles about the waste and stupidity taking place at JC Penny, there is no way that Apple should take him back.

 

He obviously was not willing to give it his all. You have people making minimum wage, busting their asses, working crazy hours, and along comes these grossly overpaid executives who only give 40% of what they have, because of their family and kids? Screw their families and kids. If somebody is paying somebody else many millions of dollars to salvage a company in trouble, the person you hired better damn be willing to give it their all, 100% of what they have.

 

And what's with all of the JC Penny executives jetting from different places in the country? Why hire people who don't even care enough about the company to relocate? Sounds like a good gig if you can get it. Get paid obscene amounts of money to hardly work and you can waste money like there's no tomorrow, while thousands of regular employees get the boot. It doesn't even matter if the company goes under, you'll be richly rewarded for your failure.


Edited by Apple ][ - 4/8/13 at 7:42pm
post #43 of 92
Quote:
Originally Posted by anantksundaram View Post


Yikes. Terrible and embarrassing, if anywhere near true. That's utterly clueless leadership.

Yeah I don't know how much is true but . . .  The jet commuting bothers me.  That is just ridiculous on all levels.  People move their kids all the time.  Suck it up and dedicate yourself to your new very highly paid job and your kids will get over it.

post #44 of 92
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pendergast View Post

You want Forstall back, the guy responsible for Maps and who Jony Ive can't stand?

Apple is being led by veterans.
Yes, Eddy Cue 24 yrs, Jony Ive 21 yrs, Phil Schiller 16 yrs, Tim Cook and Dan Riccio 15 yrs, Bob Mansfield 14 yrs. Can't get any more veteran than that. Unless some don't consider anyone who didn't come from NeXT to be a true veteran. 1wink.gif
post #45 of 92
Quote:
Originally Posted by zoetmb View Post

In spite of Johnson's former success at Apple, I think it would be a bad move for Apple to re-hire him. He's been pegged as a failure. If Apple scoops him up, I think it will make Apple's management look weak and it will have negative impact on the stock price.

Thank god you're not running Apple.

Quote:

That would be nice to see Ron come back. I think he's the right man for the job.

 

 

However, it would be even nicer if we could get the guy on the right back...

I think Steve would approve.

post #46 of 92
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleGreen View Post

 

Ron's JC Penney concept made no sense from the beginning. There was nothing to draw people to a JC Penney store.

My wife said this right from the get-go, when the guy was appointed. (She has a much better handle on the whole dept store shopping space across-the-board than I do -- without which, of course, our whole family would be in tatters).

 

Given what I had seen him do -- whether by accident or design -- at Apple, I originally thought she was wrong. But her insight was proven totally right!

 

As you said, the product sold itself at Apple stores. Most of what it needed was a radically different and inviting retail space. The new JCP had the latter (without the requisite human capital), but not the former.

post #47 of 92
Quote:
Originally Posted by dnd0ps View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by zoetmb View Post

In spite of Johnson's former success at Apple, I think it would be a bad move for Apple to re-hire him. He's been pegged as a failure. If Apple scoops him up, I think it will make Apple's management look weak and it will have negative impact on the stock price.

Thank god you're not running Apple.

Quote:

That would be nice to see Ron come back. I think he's the right man for the job.

 

 

However, it would be even nicer if we could get the guy on the right back...

I think Steve would approve.

Thank God you're not running Apple.

post #48 of 92
Quote:
Originally Posted by 65C816 View Post

Jobs wasn't "successful" with Pixar.  He funded Pixar.  Ed Catmull was the man behind Pixar, as was John Lasseter.

Pixar wouldn't have been Pixar without Jobs (or Lasseter or a number of others).  To imply he was just an investor reveals your ignorance on this topic.

post #49 of 92
Quote:
Originally Posted by Apple ][ View Post

I like this part the best:

 

 

Still, new hires at headquarters, many of them Apple alumni, have staked out cushy workspaces for themselves, ordering posh furnishings and insisting the company replace their PCs with Apple computers and iPads — despite company networks that remain PC-based.

“You can’t coordinate people’s calendars because there are glitches in the Apple software,” one insider said. “The IT people don’t know how to work on them — I think that’s part of the reason they fired a lot of the IT department.”

That's hilarious! lol.gif

If I were an executive, I would also demand to only use Macs and I would also instantly fire anybody from the IT department that began whining or didn't know how to use a damn Mac.

 

So basically, you'd put the "dic" in "Dictator?" Good to know. Glad you're not my boss.

post #50 of 92
Quote:
Originally Posted by Throwthatham View Post

I want Ron to come back. We are bleeding to death, losing long term talented employees daily because we are being managed by J.Crew and Best Buy people.

Bleeding? Surely you're joking.
post #51 of 92
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cash907 View Post

 

So basically, you'd put the "dic" in "Dictator?" Good to know. Glad you're not my boss.

It's probably not a good idea to be a dick 24 hours out of the day, but sometimes it's necessary to be a dick, IMO. I don't mind being a dick sometimes. It all depends on the particular situation and who you are dealing with.


Edited by Apple ][ - 4/8/13 at 8:15pm
post #52 of 92
post #53 of 92
Quote:
Originally Posted by 65C816 View Post

Jobs wasn't "successful" with Pixar.  He funded Pixar.  Ed Catmull was the man behind Pixar, as was John Lasseter.

Yep! 

post #54 of 92
Quote:
Originally Posted by bdkennedy1 View Post

He should have tried to prove his retail strategy in a limited amount of stores before rolling it out to all of them. How the shareholders let him get away with not doing this is beyond me.

Best post of all! :)

post #55 of 92
Quote:
Originally Posted by Apple ][ View Post

And what's with all of the JC Penny executives jetting from different places in the country? Why hire people who don't even care enough about the company to relocate? Sounds like a good gig if you can get it. Get paid obscene amounts of money to hardly work and you can waste money like there's no tomorrow, while thousands of regular employees get the boot. It doesn't even matter if the company goes under, you'll be richly rewarded for your failure.
What a load of socialist waffle... Wait... A][, is that you??
1wink.gif
post #56 of 92
Quote:
Originally Posted by paxman View Post


What a load of socialist waffle... Wait... A][, is that you??
1wink.gif

Don't worry, I am no socialist. I'd rather be dead.lol.gif

 

As usual, my viewpoint is dictated and motivated by my own selfish reasons and desires. If somebody is not willing to give it their all and if somebody is wasteful, then that's not the kind of person that should be working for Apple, IMO.

post #57 of 92

that was some funding...you think everyone who funds a company get to merge with disney..

post #58 of 92
Comeback to your family....
post #59 of 92
Quote:
Originally Posted by 65C816 View Post

Jobs wasn't "successful" with Pixar.  He funded Pixar.  Ed Catmull was the man behind Pixar, as was John Lasseter.
ya-huh… interestingly, Catmull, Lasseter, Andrew Stanton etc. - you know, people who actually worked with Jobs at Pixar - have a different view of things.

Who to believe? People who knew Jobs or random forum troll? hmmm…
post #60 of 92
Quote:
Originally Posted by anantksundaram View Post

This would be an admission of HR failure at Apple both internally (no decent second level human capital) and externally (unable to spot, attract, recruit talent). It would be a totally dumb move if it came to pass.

What is dumb about admitting failure? It's not like one can hide it through public denial.

"Apple should pull the plug on the iPhone."

John C. Dvorak, 2007
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"Apple should pull the plug on the iPhone."

John C. Dvorak, 2007
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post #61 of 92
Quote:
Originally Posted by anantksundaram View Post

This would be an admission of HR failure at Apple both internally (no decent second level human capital) and externally (unable to spot, attract, recruit talent). It would be a totally dumb move if it came to pass.
CNBC was brutal on Johnson this morning. The main theme being anybody could sell Apple products as they basically sell themselves. I don't see how bringing him back to Apple is a good thing. Unless morale at retail is so low right now and they all loved Johnson and want him back?
post #62 of 92
Quote:
Originally Posted by Suddenly Newton View Post


What is dumb about admitting failure? It's not like one can hide it through public denial.

It does nothing to address the failure. That's what's dumb.
post #63 of 92

If he wants to come back, can get his mind back into it and is thought to be the right guy for the job, then hire him. Maybe he doesn't get to be the big cheese but maybe a consultant.

 

Don't know how much of the JC Penny fiasco was his own fault and how much was the culture there or possibly a combination of the two. Never been one of my favorite stores. My sister in law was let go 6 months before she would have been eligible for a pension(but I will say I don't know the full story behind this).

 

I don't think working at JC Penny made him stupid. To deny the successes he had with the Apple store(although a good part of that may have been due to Jobs influence) because of the JC Penny failure would be wrong, IMO. Just remember that Jobs came back better, maybe a bit more humble, after he had been publicly kicked out of Apple a decade earlier.

 

But maybe, with all the money he has made at Apple, he doesn't need to work and maybe that he doesn't want to. Maybe the money was part of the reason he didn't succeed at JC Penny. It will be interesting to hear his side of the story, if it ever gets told.

post #64 of 92
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimbo1234 View Post

Comeback to your family....

Exactly. Apple is home for Johnson.
Citing unnamed sources with limited but direct knowledge of the rumoured device - Comedy Insider (Feb 2014)
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Citing unnamed sources with limited but direct knowledge of the rumoured device - Comedy Insider (Feb 2014)
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post #65 of 92
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogifan View Post

CNBC was brutal on Johnson this morning. The main theme being anybody could sell Apple products as they basically sell themselves. I don't see how bringing him back to Apple is a good thing. Unless morale at retail is so low right now and they all loved Johnson and want him back?

Apple retail is also about hiring people and building and designing stores. Johnson was with Apple retail from the start and he clearly had a gift for it. Johnson's decisions and taste suited Apple particularly.
Citing unnamed sources with limited but direct knowledge of the rumoured device - Comedy Insider (Feb 2014)
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Citing unnamed sources with limited but direct knowledge of the rumoured device - Comedy Insider (Feb 2014)
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post #66 of 92
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogifan View Post

lol.gif you always seem to find a way to throw NeXT in the conversation and declare former NeXT employees the most brilliant people to ever grace the earth.

You wouldn't far off the mark in the context of the rebirth of Apple if you also held that opinion ... but that's just my humble opinion of course. Personally I love hearing mdriftmeyer's comments as they are some of the most insightful and historically well founded on this the blog. Without an accurate understanding of history all else is spin and speculation.
Enjoying the new Mac Pro ... it's smokin'
Been using Apple since Apple ][ - Long on AAPL so biased
nMac Pro 6 Core, MacBookPro i7, MacBookPro i5, iPhones 5 and 5s, iPad Air, 2013 Mac mini.
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Enjoying the new Mac Pro ... it's smokin'
Been using Apple since Apple ][ - Long on AAPL so biased
nMac Pro 6 Core, MacBookPro i7, MacBookPro i5, iPhones 5 and 5s, iPad Air, 2013 Mac mini.
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post #67 of 92
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ireland View Post

Apple retail is also about hiring people and building and designing stores. Johnson was with Apple retail from the start and he clearly had a gift for it. Johnson's decisions and taste suited Apple particularly.

I agree with you. Assuming the OP is accurate and in fact he changed Steve's mind on how the stores should be set up he deserves enormous credit. It is impossible to ever know if Steve's original concept would have worked equally well but CNBC's assertion that 'anybody could sell Apple products as they basically sell themselves' certainly flies in the eye of what all those same experts said when the Apple Stores were launched doesn't it? More like 'doomed to fail' was the general consensus. The tech media after that and their outright condemnation of the potential for the iPad seems to make their opinions as valuable as .... 'self censored'. 1biggrin.gif

I hope he does return.
Enjoying the new Mac Pro ... it's smokin'
Been using Apple since Apple ][ - Long on AAPL so biased
nMac Pro 6 Core, MacBookPro i7, MacBookPro i5, iPhones 5 and 5s, iPad Air, 2013 Mac mini.
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Enjoying the new Mac Pro ... it's smokin'
Been using Apple since Apple ][ - Long on AAPL so biased
nMac Pro 6 Core, MacBookPro i7, MacBookPro i5, iPhones 5 and 5s, iPad Air, 2013 Mac mini.
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post #68 of 92
Originally Posted by anantksundaram View Post
It does nothing to address the failure.


When a lot of people can't even admit that such a thing could happen, I fail to see how you can say it does nothing to address it.

Originally posted by Relic

...those little naked weirdos are going to get me investigated.
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Originally posted by Relic

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post #69 of 92

I think most of you already said it, Bad idea to bring him back to Apple. Ron was only successful because he implemented Steve's vision. I would venture to guess that Ron did not understand why Steve want thing in a particular way and failed to understand why Steve' vision worked for Apple.

 

Ron's grand idea for JCP was to change the logo and create a store in a store idea. Well I saw the store in a store idea in JCP and now Macy's and it does not work. Why, because large department stores are dinosaurs these days. They are no longer needed and people can go to a mall and get a store in a store concept without stepping foot into a department store.

 

The Department store was a great idea at one time when people had to walk or drive around town to get to different store and the department store put them all in one place. No longer needed we have malls.

post #70 of 92
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maestro64 View Post

I think most of you already said it, Bad idea to bring him back to Apple. Ron was only successful because he implemented Steve's vision. I would venture to guess that Ron did not understand why Steve want thing in a particular way and failed to understand why Steve' vision worked for Apple.

Wow, I guess you didn't read the biography where Jobs said Ron changed his mind on the layout and genius bars. Enough with the "Jobs created everything meme".
post #71 of 92
Johnson now clearly was a failure at JCP, so don't bring him back.

Wasn't that the argument against bringing SJ back to Apple?
post #72 of 92
Quote:
Originally Posted by Apple ][ View Post

I like this part the best:

 

 

Still, new hires at headquarters, many of them Apple alumni, have staked out cushy workspaces for themselves, ordering posh furnishings and insisting the company replace their PCs with Apple computers and iPads — despite company networks that remain PC-based.

“You can’t coordinate people’s calendars because there are glitches in the Apple software,” one insider said. “The IT people don’t know how to work on them — I think that’s part of the reason they fired a lot of the IT department.”

That's hilarious! lol.gif

If I were an executive, I would also demand to only use Macs and I would also instantly fire anybody from the IT department that began whining or didn't know how to use a damn Mac.

 

Most large businesses work with Exchange and Exchange works pretty well with Apple hardware, so I don't know what the problem is.     I do have one problem and that is if one isn't using Exchange Server, in order for sync with the phone to work from a Mac, it has to sync with iCal and Address Book.   Before iCloud, you could sync Outlook with iCal and Address Book.   But once iCloud came along, you can no longer sync Outlook to iCal and Address Book if you're also using iCloud.    That's a bit of a pain and it basically forces people to give up Outlook.   I prefer Outlook to Apple Mail, etc., and I think it was unfair of Apple to force that on us.  There's no reason why Outlook still couldn't sync to iCal and Address Book and then iCal and Address Book syncs to the Cloud.

post #73 of 92
Quote:
Originally Posted by anantksundaram View Post

It does nothing to address the failure. That's what's dumb.

I wasn't aware Apple's retail operations was considered a "failure." I assume you mean something else...?

"Apple should pull the plug on the iPhone."

John C. Dvorak, 2007
Reply

"Apple should pull the plug on the iPhone."

John C. Dvorak, 2007
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post #74 of 92
Quote:
Originally Posted by waldobushman View Post

Johnson now clearly was a failure at JCP, so don't bring him back.

Wasn't that the argument against bringing SJ back to Apple?

No.

post #75 of 92

Its a shame for JCP, in recent months the stores have been looking better and better, bought several christmas gifts there and have been looking for other stuff. If JCP revert to the old store will be a big dissapoinment, they wont have bigger numbers with crappy stuff and dirty stores. hope they keep the price structure with real prices no so much discounts and keep improving with new designers.

post #76 of 92
Quote:
Originally Posted by Suddenly Newton View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by anantksundaram View Post

It does nothing to address the failure. That's what's dumb.

I wasn't aware Apple's retail operations was considered a "failure." I assume you mean something else...?

If you'd care to read my original post again, I was referring to Apple's HR and talent recruitment/development abilities.

post #77 of 92
"Circumstance creates a hero and not a hero creates the circumstance."

Ron is good at Apple mainly because in Apple, the strong infrastructures are already well built, the talents are there, the products are there, so Ron is able to made it with his own talent. However in JC Penney, the structure there is not strong at all, there is no differential products, there is no special talents to supplement Ron, so he fails badly.
post #78 of 92


“[Johnson] doesn’t wear JCPenney stuff unless he has to.”

 

Well, yeah. Who among us does???

 

I don't look for this guy to be back at Apple anytime soon. He's PR poison right now and Apple has enough on its plate without the distraction of having this character hanging around HQ.

If two people always agree, then one of them is redundant.
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If two people always agree, then one of them is redundant.
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post #79 of 92
Quote:
Originally Posted by anantksundaram View Post

If you'd care to read my original post again, I was referring to Apple's HR and talent recruitment/development abilities.

So you rather Apple hire a guy just for the sake of hiring someone instead of rehiring the guy that made Retail successful? It would be a failure to not consider him.
post #80 of 92
Quote:
Originally Posted by jungmark View Post

So you rather Apple hire a guy just for the sake of hiring someone instead of rehiring the guy that made Retail successful? It would be a failure to not consider him.

And if he comes back to Apple that means that Samsung or Google don't get him.

Sad to say, JCP coming back was/is a long shot, and it shows that retail isn't easy. Hopefully he learned some hard lessons that he can use back at Apple.
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