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Microsoft lambasts Google for sharing personal information of Android users - Page 2

post #41 of 118
Quote:
Originally Posted by bullhead View Post

 

Yahoo search is Bing as in "Bing Is Not Good".  No thanks Mr Microsoft astroturfer.

 

 

I prefer Bing most of the time especially for images. I also like that searching earns me points towards things like Starbucks. I like the changing daily photo with information attached as well. Bing has a fun blind test challenge

post #42 of 118
I actually like the ads. I'm glad someone is saying it. They have nothing to loose really because most of their profit is locked in Windows contracts that Chrome has no chance of dislodging. Everyone is falling all of them because they give other peoples idea's for free. I saw they were quick to go after Microsoft over Bing when they felt their algorithm was at risk.
Apple does not provide this information to developers because they know that it can be used by criminals in all kinds of ways. When you add the fact that 96% of all mobile malware is on the android platform to Google supplying the real name, email address, neighbor hood, and they types of apps they buy, this is a very nasty combination that can not have a good out come. Especially when some of the nastiest apps have been provided for download directly on the Google Play store. Of course people will say, crooks are everywhere on the internet, but this makes you a direct target because they can capture information they know is correct.
post #43 of 118
C'mon Google, don't be evil now.

At least they're open about it. No wait, what does 'open' mean again?
Quote:
Originally Posted by baconAndTrance View Post

Hi
I am not here to defend anyone but, dear Microsoft it is called Google checkout for merchants and developers , as in every business when you sell a product you see the details of your customers, whether it is an app or a book, by the way also customers can see the developers name,company name and the address , so it is equal , as you should be aware all email marketings are opt-out by default . I do not see any mistakes here , what is the problem to complain.

It's a valid point. If you make an e-commerce transaction, your personal information generally goes to the seller. I'd say app stores are a bit different because it can involve millions of people getting a free app and the developer can be anyone. You can imagine some spammer putting a free app on Google Play, getting loads of downloads and selling or using the email database for spamming. That kind of thing would be very difficult to pull off even as a 3rd party seller on Amazon. I don't think there's any reason to pass on the details other than to perhaps verify a purchase and provide support but they can get unique codes. I don't know why they wouldn't use unique anonymous ids like they do with other products.
post #44 of 118
Quote:
Originally Posted by KDarling View Post

Most of us buy stuff all the time from eBay, Amazon, and other online stores... 

 

 

Yeah, most people do buy plenty of stuff online, including me.

 

There's a big difference though between buying something from Amazon, a business that has been around for a long time, and one where you know that you are most likely not going to get ripped off or be worried about them giving up your info to a criminal cartel or a bunch of scammers and hackers. People can check out businesses that they purchase goods from online, and then decide if they wish to buy from them or if they should go and buy from someplace else. I don't buy anything online from shady websites or places that I'm unsure about.

 

Now imagine that every time that you go to download an app, Google is just passing along your information to whoever it may be. If I were a big time criminal, I would definitely be praising Android, because it would provide me with many interesting opportunities.

post #45 of 118
Quote:
Originally Posted by matrix07 View Post

It makes you wonder, doesn't it? How everyone just kneel to the lord G.

They kneel because the internet is the new economy and Google is the current Gate Keeper. If they just happen to tweak their algorithm one day and you page gets pushed to the 5th page of search results it can have an effect on your business and visibility.  They recently tried it with iTunes and searches were demoted, but someone picked up on it and blogged about it hours later. So, Google said oh it was a mistake when tweaking and fixed it right away. imagine that.  They were clearly watching for a response because they reacted way to quick.

post #46 of 118
Quote:
Originally Posted by RedGeminiPA View Post

The last time I bought something from a store, I can't recall them asking me for my: name, address, email address or anything of the like. It's one thing if it's a store that I have a rewards card for, since I KNOWINGLY gave them the information. Google sells it without your knowledge, especially if you didn't read ALL of the fine print as an Android user. That's where Google is making money on "FREE" Android. 

How are their users SO BLIND?!?!

I even switched to Yahoo! search, since I was tired of getting emails from Staples targeting items for every electronics device I searched using Google Shopping. 

Android's "freedom" is NOT intended for the end user. It's all smoke and mirrors that I want little to no part of. 

Google has effectively compromised the independence of most all of the major consumer groups and supposed accountability watchdogs in Washington with:
  • Free advertising through Google Grants: "Google Grants has awarded AdWords advertising to hundreds of non-profit groups";
  • Generous intern or fellowship programs; and
  • Generous financial support of liberal grass-roots organizations and their pet issues like net neutrality


The "media reform" movement run by "FreePress / Stop Big Media" has been coopted by Google as its chief corporate ally, so that while it rails against offline media consolidation, which is heavily restricted in law and regulation, they are impotent and de-fanged on the unprecedented consolidation of online media that Google has already accomplished on the Internet.

It is the height of irony that in opposing offline media gatekeepers, they have enabled the ultimate online gatekeeper, Google, to consolidate effective and unprecendented gatekeeper control over online content -- the content of the future! This media reform community is so badly compromised and conflicted that they refuse to acknowlege that they have essentially "looked the other way" while Google has concentrated more "big" corporate power over online media than ever could have been achieved in the offline world.


Furthermore, most of the blogging community has a financial conflict of interest in covering Google, because Google is the blogosphere's primary source of compensation and monetization. This tends to make many of them cheerleaders for Google.
post #47 of 118

Good thing Tin-Foil Hats match iOS devices - not sure Windows ones thou.

post #48 of 118
I just changed my default search to Bing. Not out of any caring for MS, except to say Thanks for creating the 'Scroogled' meme.

Really glad the meme has started now. Perhaps it will get people to wondering about things.
Maybe the idea will gain repetition and traction. Hope MS does more commercials like this.
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post #49 of 118
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gatorguy View Post


I'm fairly certain you will often get a dialogue box asking if it's OK for Apple to share your contact information with the publisher/developer.

 

a) That's not iBooks, it's Subscriptions.

 

b) That's not even remotely by any stretch of the imagination the same thing.

 

Nice try, though, but you had nothin' to work with.

post #50 of 118
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marvin View Post

C'mon Google, don't be evil now.

At least they're open about it.

It's a valid point. If you make an e-commerce transaction, your personal information generally goes to the seller. I'd say app stores are a bit different because it can involve millions of people getting a free app and the developer can be anyone. You can imagine some spammer putting a free app on Google Play, getting loads of downloads and selling or using the email database for spamming.

Marvin, you'd have a valid complaint if Google forwarded contact information for free apps. They don't. It only does so for paid applications where the payment goes to the developer.
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post #51 of 118

And I wonder, does this apply to free apps on Google also?

 

If I were a scammer, that's exactly what I would do. I would make some quick, free, crappy Android app that would look interesting enough so that millions of Android users would download it. Google, my partner in crime, would hand over all of the info of those millions of users to me, and then I would get busy with my real scheme.

post #52 of 118
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gatorguy View Post

They don't. It only does so for paid applications where the payment goes to the developer.

 

That is still terrible though.

 

I don't want all of my info going to some hacker group in China, just because I decided to buy a 99 cent app.

post #53 of 118
I think it is interesting that Google doesn't really police Google Play. Google Play has many of the same restrictions that the Apple App Store has but doesn't appear to follow their own guidelines.
post #54 of 118
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gatorguy View Post


I'm fairly certain you will often get a dialogue box asking if it's OK for Apple to share your contact information with the publisher/developer.

I belive what you are talking about is actually newsstand.  iBooks has never asked me about sharing information, but I believe you are correct about newsstand asking you if you want to share.

 

Again though there is a difference between Apple actively asking you if you want to share on newpaper / magazine subscriptions, and Google's just sharing your information on everything.

post #55 of 118
Quote:
Originally Posted by AJMonline View Post

I belive what you are talking about is actually newsstand.  iBooks has never asked me about sharing information, but I believe you are correct about newsstand asking you if you want to share.

Again though there is a difference between Apple actively asking you if you want to share on newpaper / magazine subscriptions, and Google's just sharing your information on everything.

Duh. . .
Yes sir that's exactly the service i meant. Thanks for catching that.
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post #56 of 118
Quote:
Originally Posted by baconAndTrance View Post

 


     There are some many examples where you are required to provide your address even though you do not receive any physical good. whether it is buying hosting,domain name, or a service on ebay or amazon , you will still required to provide your address and the merchant who provides the service  will see your address . that is my point . Seeing addresses and  emails of the customers does not make any difference for the Devs, all emails are opt-out by default for marketing.

There is a big difference in this sharing.  For instance eBay has a system in place to protect against fraud. Each buyer and seller has a rating showing the number of transactions and the percentage of positive responses. So if they are questionable they will be outed. Ebay also offer fraud protection incase it does occur.  Spammers, hackers, and other criminals can use the data provided by Google, to target certain areas based on current events or affluence etc.  Identity theft can occur with one more piece of data.  If they have hacked systems that have the other pieces then they can gain access to your accounts or make purchases in your name. 

post #57 of 118
What a bunch of crap! Don't you people know that there is no such thing as privacy anymore?? EVERYBODY collects your info. You think it's safe in the hands of Apple or Microsoft? Maybe for now it is. But what happens if they decide to scroogle you? You gonna be like the guy who mentioned earlier that he'll us Symbian or no phone or OS at all? I bet you'll use the 666 chip! Sheesh!! I'm a huge rpg fan and I use this Genius thing in iTunes, and I keep wondering why Aralon never popped up. It was by accident that I found it. I bought Chrono Trigger, but I don't see Secret of Mana popping up? Maybe I'm using it wrong, but if not, I wouldn't mind my info being sold. It would only make things easier. Even if it's only junk you send to me, you can't make me buy it? Simple as that. So stop whining over this privacy thing. Can't you people see we're heading towards the non cash and non privacy era?
post #58 of 118

SCROOGLED

Sent from my iPhone Simulator

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Sent from my iPhone Simulator

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post #59 of 118
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gatorguy View Post

Marvin, you'd have a valid complaint if Google forwarded contact information for free apps. They don't. It only does so for paid applications where the payment goes to the developer.

Does it include in-app purchases for free apps? Also, is there a particular reason why the info is sent on rather than not at all?
post #60 of 118
Quote:
Originally Posted by eksodos View Post

This is why my next phone will be a Microsoft Windows Phone. Microsoft is leading the way in terms of protecting the privacy of its users.


On the other hand, I've recently been "Microsoft'ed".

 

I installed a new harddrive in my MacBook Pro and I went to restore Office 2011. The install said I'd already used the product key. I called MS, and they said I'd have to buy Office again. I know, there was a big stink about this with Office 2013 and MS relented, but good luck with their support helping you get your situation fixed. I've called 5 times and still have not gotten a solution.

 

Then I went to use my 25 GB of Skydrive, I was going to upgrade another 50 GB. Well, they too away everyone's free 25 GB and lowered it to 7 GB. There was a small window of time, IF YOU KNEW, when you could say, "yes, I really do want that 25 GB."

 

I feel like MS is a big stupid company. I wanted to give the a second chance and they've burned me.

 

BTW, I'm using NeoOffice and its working pretty great. $10 if you don't compile the code yourself. It's a fork of OpenOffice.

 

P

post #61 of 118
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marvin View Post

Does it include in-app purchases for free apps? Also, is there a particular reason why the info is sent on rather than not at all?

If money changes hands and Google is being consistent I would assume so, but honestly don't know for certain. As for why I mentioned it earlier. Google considers the developer to be the seller. Apple considers themselves to be the seller.
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post #62 of 118
Quote:
Originally Posted by TBell View Post

Amazon and eBay do not have my phone number as it is not required for a credit card transaction.

 

Are you sure?  Amazon has the phone numbers of myself and everyone else in my address book.  Perhaps you're not a Prime member and/or have never used one or two day delivery?

 

Anyway, Google doesn't give out anyone's phone number or credit info.   Just name, email and city.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Apple ][ View Post

I don't want all of my info going to some hacker group in China, just because I decided to buy a 99 cent app.

 

Then what the heck were you thinking, downloading iOS apps for years before Apple belatedly decided to add Contact info permissions.   Many studies have stated that iOS apps leak more personal info than Android apps.

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by genovelle View Post

There is a big difference in this sharing.  For instance eBay has a system in place to protect against fraud.  

 

Heh.  I'm pretty sure I've gotten more spam from eBay dealers whom I've talked to via email, than from almost anywhere else.   That's why I keep a spare email address just for eBay.

 

Here's one well known iOS developer's  viewpoint praising the Google info.  (His company is just down the highway from me.)

 

For myself, I didn't like finding out that Google gave them my standard email address. I'd have liked to have known about this beforehand, just so I could give a different contact email, like I do with eBay/etc.   Then I'd be okay with it.

Edited by KDarling - 4/9/13 at 11:09am
post #63 of 118
More junk mails from Android
post #64 of 118
An interesting consideration is Google Fiber.

With Deep Packet Inspection technology, Google can monitor absolutely everything.

"Free Internet?" Sure it is.
post #65 of 118
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gatorguy View Post


If it's a purchase in iBooks I believe Apple might be sharing your contact information with the developer. Wasn't that one of the concessions Apple made for the magazine/newspaper publishers?

In general tho Apple and Google look at the developer's differently. In Google Play a paying customer is not Google's, it's the developer's. At Apple they keep the customer's to themselves as a rule, with iBooks being at least one exception.

 

 

It is different if it is a publisher or newspaper.  I subscribe to the paper version of the info, I'll give them the contact info.  For smaller companies, I don't know if they will be dealing with my contact info the same way.

post #66 of 118
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacBook Pro View Post


Google has effectively compromised the independence of most all of the major consumer groups and supposed accountability watchdogs in Washington with:
  • Free advertising through Google Grants: "Google Grants has awarded AdWords advertising to hundreds of non-profit groups";
  • Generous intern or fellowship programs; and
  • Generous financial support of liberal grass-roots organizations and their pet issues like net neutrality


The "media reform" movement run by "FreePress / Stop Big Media" has been coopted by Google as its chief corporate ally, so that while it rails against offline media consolidation, which is heavily restricted in law and regulation, they are impotent and de-fanged on the unprecedented consolidation of online media that Google has already accomplished on the Internet.

It is the height of irony that in opposing offline media gatekeepers, they have enabled the ultimate online gatekeeper, Google, to consolidate effective and unprecendented gatekeeper control over online content -- the content of the future! This media reform community is so badly compromised and conflicted that they refuse to acknowlege that they have essentially "looked the other way" while Google has concentrated more "big" corporate power over online media than ever could have been achieved in the offline world.


Furthermore, most of the blogging community has a financial conflict of interest in covering Google, because Google is the blogosphere's primary source of compensation and monetization. This tends to make many of them cheerleaders for Google.

 

 Tin Foil much?  Any facts to back up your fantasy rant? Or just baseless accusations?

post #67 of 118
Quote:
Originally Posted by bullhead View Post

you obviously are note involved with the advertising business.  While you piled in a bunch of bullet points in a big scary looking list (most of it false), you of course fail to mention details of what data aggregators have. Your list is nothing and superficial.  Like i said, this is _nothing_ compared to what credit card companies have, let alone Facebook.

Educated yourself before you make more of a fool of yourself.

You could do the research yourself but are obviously too lazy. Too lazy to provide a real argument and too lazy to do the research.

Where is your argument? You have none. You only have empty comments. You made the initial claim and I responded. You haven't provided even a single drop of evidence to support your spurious claims.


Fortunately, I no longer need to listen to your absurdity much like the multitudes of trolls here.
Edited by MacBook Pro - 4/9/13 at 11:13am
post #68 of 118
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacBook Pro View Post

I think it is interesting that Google doesn't really police Google Play. Google Play has many of the same restrictions that the Apple App Store has but doesn't appear to follow their own guidelines.

http://techcrunch.com/2013/04/08/nearly-60k-low-quality-apps-booted-from-google-play-store-in-february-points-to-increased-spam-fighting/
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post #69 of 118
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacBook Pro View Post

An interesting consideration is Google Fiber.

With Deep Packet Inspection technology, Google can monitor absolutely everything.

"Free Internet?" Sure it is.

I'm still looking forward to your list of data collected by Apple and what services they use to gather it. No doubt it's a very short list compared to the one you did for Google.
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post #70 of 118
Quote:
Originally Posted by monstrosity View Post

Finally Microsoft understands who's eating it's lunch. I wish Microsoft all the luck in exposing the new Microsoft for what it is.

Exactly. Microsoft is jealous that it is not the Not-Apple in this market.

"Apple should pull the plug on the iPhone."

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post #71 of 118
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gatorguy View Post

I'm still looking forward to your list of data collected by Apple and what services they use to gather it. No doubt it's a very short list compared to the one you did for Google.

Apple? I thought we were talking about Microsoft and The Exalted Google.

"Apple should pull the plug on the iPhone."

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post #72 of 118
Quote:
Originally Posted by KDarling View Post

 

Here's one well known iOS developer's  viewpoint praising the Google info.  (His company is just down the highway from me.)

 

 

Where did you did that useless (and highly biased) article from? Is it on your bookmarks folder of "articles to twist the truth around when posting on Apple forums"?

 

First off, he's lying. This has not been the policy for 4 years - there were significant changes that occurred since October 2012. Yet he fails to mention this. How could someone who has products in Google Play not be aware of this?

 

He then goes on to make a big deal about refunds and how Google Play allows refunds. Sorry, but getting refunds is a non-issue. And it's certainly less of an issue than having your real, primary e-mail address shared with someone you don't know.

post #73 of 118
Quote:
Originally Posted by Apple ][ View Post

And I wonder, does this apply to free apps on Google also?

 

If I were a scammer, that's exactly what I would do. I would make some quick, free, crappy Android app that would look interesting enough so that millions of Android users would download it. Google, my partner in crime, would hand over all of the info of those millions of users to me, and then I would get busy with my real scheme.

 

So you're in a position with an app that has exposure to millions of users, and instead of simply adding an ad to generate significant revenue, you're going to try to scam with nothing more than a name, zip code, and email address. Maybe a Nigerian 419 email scam? Who knew it was so easy to get an app with millions of downloads! /s

 

You do know they sell the exact same information on bulk marketing lists for a few hundred buck,right??? Talk about a brilliant plan.... /s

post #74 of 118
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacBook Pro View Post

This is just the disclosed information that Google legally gathers from users of a few of Google's most popular services. Google has many more services including many for which they do not provide disclosure.

 

Apple likewise collects a lot of personal info, especially via iTunes.  They have our credit card info, what music we like to buy, what videos, what apps we searched for, downloaded and deleted.

 

We already know that Apple's servers scan email looking for spam and topics like "Barely legal teens" to delete.

 

Apple's privacy policies are almost exactly the same as Google.  They share only when necessary, and they consider aggregate data to be non-personal.    Just like Google, they offer advertisers anonymous ad slots based on the info they have about us:

 

 

 

 

 

Most days I like targeted ads, but it's understandable if people do not.

 

So I think that every company should be required to have a website page with a big fat red button that you can click to erase every piece of info about you, all at once.  (Or maybe two... one for history items, and one for personal billing info.)

 

Google, at least, has a dashboard where you can drill down and delete most info they've collected about / from you, and your ad categories.  Apple, as far as I know, has nothing similar.


Edited by KDarling - 4/9/13 at 12:06pm
post #75 of 118

deleted


Edited by MacRulez - 7/23/13 at 2:34pm
post #76 of 118
Quote:
Originally Posted by Suddenly Newton View Post

Apple? I thought we were talking about Microsoft and The Exalted Google.

I thought I'd let him start with one that would really highlight the differences. I suspect Microsoft's list of data collection would be pretty similar to Google's.
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post #77 of 118
Quote:
Originally Posted by e_veritas View Post

You do know they sell the exact same information on bulk marketing lists for a few hundred buck,right??? Talk about a brilliant plan.... /s

 

And guess what, my name and my info has much less of a chance of ending up on such a list, because I typically avoid shady sites and questionable services, unlike most people.

 

I even read recently that the IRS is collecting info from Facebook and Twitter now. Good luck to all of the Facebook users out there, and to all of the Android users and other people out there who simply don't value or care about their own privacy or security.

post #78 of 118
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gatorguy View Post


A very thorough list MacBook Pro. Nicely done. I realize it may take a few minutes but can you do a similar one for Apple for comparison purposes?

Even if Apple has a similar set of data on you it's really an Apples and oranges comparison.

 

Apple acts as a traditional retailer. You buy from Apple not the app developer. Only Apple sees your personal data.

 

Google considers itself an intermediary to a transaction between customers and developers. You are buying directly from a developer, but that developer has outsourced payment processing to Google. Both Google and the developer see your personal data.

 

Apple generates income from hardware sales and commissions on sales through its iTunes and App stores.

Google generates income from selling advertising and customer demographics to support advertising.

 

Apple gathers data and keeps it to itself.

Google gathers data and sells it.

 

I know which company I'd rather have tracking my every move.

post #79 of 118
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gatorguy View Post


I'm still looking forward to your list of data collected by Apple and what services they use to gather it. No doubt it's a very short list compared to the one you did for Google.

 

Dear GG,

 

I feel you like this spinning around, smoke screen playing.

If you want a list of what Apple knows about it's customers than open your iTunes account and look what information is necessary there.

 

Additional information Apple holds is your purchasing history and if you agree anonymous device diagnostics and iAd data. For both you there's comparable easy way to opt out. In addition there are system preferences to limit tracking the educated user can adjust.

 

Apple doesn't even share subscription data. That's a main reason beside the 30 % cut e.g. newspapers have fought the Apple subscription model. In this case Apple clearly puts the user privacy in front of possible profits. All these points can be examined in the corresponding GTC documents of the services.

 

Now to your smoke screen arguments.

You like to compare buying apps at Google play to Amazon and Ebay purchases.

I did some purchases lately from 3rd party resellers and guess what? Both companies suppress sensitive data like my email address and phone number. Communication is in both cases done through the store. What the sellers get's is my shipping address and if I choose bank transfer they might get my banking account.

 

In short only the data necessary for the transaction is exposed and I can choose to cancel the transaction in the case I don't feel comfortable with it.

 

And now compare this to Google's way:

 

http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20130213/09394921962/google-play-flaw-gives-app-developers-purchasers-information.shtml

 

Even if sharing the data on free apps is just an oversight the point of Macbook Pro still stands that there is often a lot of unnecessary data shared.

As an Apple dev you don't have access to this data through iTunes connect.

 

I have just checked that I have downloaded about 750 iOS and 50 Mac apps from about 500 different devs over the years.

If would use Google play now 500 persons or companies would have my communication data.

 

You can say what you want, but I don't feel comfortable with this, because defending privacy and preventing financial fraud starts with controlling your data and reducing the amount revealed to a necessary minimum.

 

Google doesn't even effectively curate it's store which means that they don't take the effort to check whether the app dev is trustworthy. A fraudulent dev doesn't even have to put malicious code in his apps. He / she can simply collect thousands of addresses and sell them to spammers or start his own targeted phishing attack with a minimum risk to get caught because those addresses were legally obtained.

 

It's OK to defend Google's way, but please stop trying to spin around it's shortcomings.

 

BTW: iAds are also highly targeted but I think that even on advertising the privacy settings are very thoughtful. 

I know that Google isn't directly selling private user data (would be silly because 3rd parties reselling it would drive the value down).

My complain is that because data collection is a main pillar of their business they are way to lax on everybody willing to abuse it.

post #80 of 118
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacRulez View Post

 

Meanwhile:

 

iOS apps are more grabby with your personal data than Android apps

http://arstechnica.com/apple/2013/03/ios-apps-are-more-grabby-with-your-personal-data-than-android-apps/

 

don't let facts get in the way of the troll...he has no clue what he is talking about. Not worth the time.

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