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Broader Apple-Yahoo partnership viewed as logical step for both to fight Google

post #1 of 41
Thread Starter 
Rumors of a growing alliance between Apple and Yahoo for delivering information to iPhone users have been met positively by one Wall Street analysts, who sees strong benefits for both parties in the relationship, particularly in combating Google.

Shaw Wu of Sterne Agee believes a strengthened partnership with Yahoo would help Apple lessen its dependence on Google, which has become a major rival thanks largely to its role in developing the Android mobile platform. Apple has already made an effort to push Google out from the iPhone by creating its own mapping solution, and removing YouTube as a default built-in iOS application.

Yahoo on iOS
Examples of Yahoo data on iOS.


The growing tension between Apple and Google has made Yahoo the "Switzerland of Internet companies," Wu said in a note to investors on Thursday. That's helped to make Yahoo an ideal partner for Apple as it looks for alternatives to Google.

The analyst cited various industry data, which has shown that Apple's iOS platform, which powers the iPhone and iPad, is the best for mobile monetization. This could become an issue for Google, as its ties with Apple are reduced and its presence on the iPhone becomes marginalized.

Wu noted that despite the fact that Android controls roughly 70 percent of the smartphone platform market share, iOS accounts for more mobile traffic ? 42 percent ? than Android's 31 percent presence. In addition, Apple's iOS accounts for 51 percent of mobile revenue, while Android takes just 30 percent.

As a result, as Apple finds new ways to push out Google in favor of Yahoo, the changes are likely to affect Google's ability to monetize Apple's iOS platform.

However, Wu noted that the reality is many Apple users love Google services, including Google Maps and YouTube ? two of the most popular applications available for iOS. As a result, he questioned whether Apple itself, Yahoo or someone else can provide superior content and services.

Wu is also particularly interested in the potential that Apple's voice-driven Siri provides, as it has the ability to simply bypass Google. The use of services like Wolfram Alpha and the elimination of Google Maps were found to have helped cut Siri's reliance on Google in half with the launch of iOS 6 late last year.

The new analysis from Wu was made in reaction to a report from earlier this week which claimed that Apple and Yahoo are in talks about ways to better integrate the search company's various services into iOS. Yahoo already provides data such as stock and weather information to Apple's native iOS applications.

Citing an unnamed source familiar with discussions, The Wall Street Journal reported that Apple is considering preloading data from Yahoo News and other Yahoo Web properties onto iOS devices. Most of the functionality is expected to be tied in to Siri, where Yahoo already provides sports scores on demand.
post #2 of 41
Lies, all lies. Anyone who says iOS makes more money, has more ad impressions, or has higher Internet usage when they have lower overall market share is lying. Maybe they should go back to grade school to learn that 70%>30%.
post #3 of 41

I see far more benefit in an Apple buyout of Yahoo! for the latter than the former… 

 

That's code for "bump the stock up and make a hundred thousand before it collapses".

 

Originally Posted by EricTheHalfBee View Post
Lies, all lies. Anyone who says iOS makes more money, has more ad impressions, or has higher Internet usage when they have lower overall market share is lying. Maybe they should go back to grade school to learn that 70%>30%.
 

Cornflakes on a stick, man; use ¡, /s, or quotes! 1tongue.gif

post #4 of 41
Maybe this alleged partnership can make Yahoo relevant again.
post #5 of 41
^ Got it. I should dumb down my posts for people who don't get the obvious. 1smile.gif
post #6 of 41

What is the meaning of this sentence?  

 

 

Quote:
Switzerland of Internet companies,
post #7 of 41

Why can't Yahoo! be acquired by Apple?  Its nice to see them together as a unit.  

Also, wow, Marissa talking in WWDC after  Tim.  Nice view.  The stage becomes sooo beautiful.

post #8 of 41
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chandra69 View Post

What is the meaning of this sentence?  


The Swiss are neutral.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chandra69 View Post

Why can't Yahoo! be acquired by Apple?  Its nice to see them together as a unit.  
Also, wow, Marissa talking in WWDC after  Tim.  Nice view.  The stage becomes sooo beautiful.

I don't think it'll be wise for Apple to buy them.
post #9 of 41
Originally Posted by Chandra69 View Post
What is the meaning of this sentence?  

 

The implication is that Yahoo! has become "neutral ground" between Apple and Google's endeavors. Switzerland has historically remained neutral in European conflict for centuries, and such has served as a respite from war for a similar amount of time.

 

Not sure how valuable a respite Yahoo! is supposed to be, but that's not the consideration of the phrase. lol.gif

post #10 of 41
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

 

The implication is that Yahoo! has become "neutral ground" between Apple and Google's endeavors. Switzerland has historically remained neutral in European conflict for centuries, and such has served as a respite from war for a similar amount of time.

 

Not sure how valuable a respite Yahoo! is supposed to be, but that's not the consideration of the phrase. lol.gif

Correct. I don't think Yahoo sees themselves as battling Google.

http://www.informationweek.com/internet/google/yahoo-revives-ad-partnership-with-google/240148105

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post #11 of 41

This might tick off a few here, but I am beginning to wonder about this 'Apple v. Google' meme, and whether there isn't some serious hyperventilation going on.

 

Leaving aside issues of Eric Schmidt's board duplicities, Larry Page's sophomoric comments, and an occasional kerfuffle over apps that were not submitted, etc., are Apple and Google really that major a pair of competitors to each other? Implicit in these arguments is the notion that, somehow, for Apple to win Google has to lose (and vice versa). Really?

 

One, 97% of Google's revenue (and pretty much the same in operating profits) comes from search. Apple does nothing there, and arguably, has no business there. It's not Apple's core competency. Leave it to others who can do a better job. Apple need not, cannot, should not do everything.

 

Two, yes, Android v. iOS is a real battle. Board secrets or not, something like this was eventually bound to happen. (If not Google, it might have been Amazon, Microsoft, Samsung, Nokia, Palm, HTC..... take your pick. We have no idea, and there is no way to prove or disprove a counterfactual.) As I see it, from a cash flow standpoint, Android is as much an internecine battle among Androids as well as between Android and non-iOS platforms, as it is between Android and iOS. Google makes very little from it, with most of what they likely make from mobile being from iOS (no doubt to their embarrassment).

 

Indeed, it's probably getting to the point where Android may be running away from Google's ability to rein it in (witness Facebook, HTC, Samsung, Amazon's recent hardware/software offerings). I'll bet there's a lot of head-scratching going on at Google about these developments, and how to address it (that may explain why Rubin was let go from Android).

 

Three, yes, Google is trying to get into hardware, the high-end of which is Apple's domain. However, they are far from succeeding with it, and arguably, may never succeed, given all the new skills and competencies that are required to make a hardware business work well. Even if they succeed, I think Google's hardware will be a far greater -- and more immediate -- threat to non-iOS, on-Mac OS hardware. Do people seriously believe that the Nexus, Chrome Pixel, etc. are serious threats to Apple?

 

Four, none of Google's vaunted, well-publicized future hardware -- Google Glass, self-driving vehicles, etc -- compete with Apple in any way. Apple has its own future hardware plans that, I'll bet, have little to with such far-fetched (and perhaps silly, low-volume) initiatives.

 

Five, the software competition from Google -- Docs, Mail, Chrome, Maps, Google Play, music/media store, social networking, even Maps -- are all in areas that are either given away by, or at worst, incredibly low-margin, for Apple. Apple needs those things as part of its ecosystem to continue to support and strengthen its hardware profits. If it is trumped -- as it will be -- in some of those areas, what's the bid deal, as long as Apple is able to incorporate the winning software into its ecosystem?

 

Bottom line: I am beginning to tire of the "A versus G" fulminations.

post #12 of 41
Arguably, the best move is for Apple to take a stake in Yahoo!

I suspect that Apple and Yahoo! have considerable overlapping demographics. In which case, the acquisition of Yahoo! may not be fiscally responsible.

An investment by Apple would further infuse Yahoo! with resources to improve services.
post #13 of 41
Quote:
Originally Posted by EricTheHalfBee View Post

Lies, all lies. Anyone who says iOS makes more money, has more ad impressions, or has higher Internet usage when they have lower overall market share is lying. Maybe they should go back to grade school to learn that 70%>30%.

I thought this was a serious post until I considered that:
  • I haven't blocked you
  • I realized you have hundreds of posts
  • I thought about your previous posts

The problem is that we have many members who think exactly as you depicted in your post.
(I am certain they will show themselves forthwith.)
Edited by MacBook Pro - 4/11/13 at 8:47am
post #14 of 41
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gatorguy View Post

Correct. I don't think Yahoo sees themselves as battling Google.

http://www.informationweek.com/internet/google/yahoo-revives-ad-partnership-with-google/240148105

Yahoo may not be battling with Google. But Apple can use Yahoo! service to battle (a little) with Google. Or, am I missing something?

post #15 of 41
Quote:
Originally Posted by anantksundaram View Post

This might tick off a few here, but I am beginning to wonder about this 'Apple v. Google' meme, and whether there isn't some serious hyperventilation going on.

Leaving aside issues of Eric Schmidt's board duplicities, Larry Page's sophomoric comments, and an occasional kerfuffle over apps that were not submitted, etc., are Apple and Google really that major a pair of competitors to each other? Implicit in these arguments is the notion that, somehow, for Apple to win Google has to lose (and vice versa). Really?

One, 97% of Google's revenue (and pretty much the same in operating profits) comes from search. Apple does nothing there, and arguably, has no business there. It's not Apple's core competency. Leave it to others who can do a better job. Apple need not, cannot, should not do everything.

Two, yes, Android v. iOS is a real battle. Board secrets or not, something like this was eventually bound to happen. (If not Google, it might have been Amazon, Microsoft, Samsung, Nokia, Palm, HTC..... take your pick. We have no idea, and there is no way to prove or disprove a counterfactual.) As I see it, from a cash flow standpoint, Android is as much an internecine battle among Androids as well as between Android and non-iOS platforms, as it is between Android and iOS. Google makes very little from it, with most of what they likely make from mobile being from iOS (no doubt to their embarrassment).

Indeed, it's probably getting to the point where Android may be running away from Google's ability to rein it in (witness Facebook, HTC, Samsung, Amazon's recent hardware/software offerings). I'll bet there's a lot of head-scratching going on at Google about these developments, and how to address it (that may explain why Rubin was let go from Android).

Three, yes, Google is trying to get into hardware, the high-end of which is Apple's domain. However, they are far from succeeding with it, and arguably, may never succeed, given all the new skills and competencies that are required to make a hardware business work well. Even if they succeed, I think Google's hardware will be a far greater -- and more immediate -- threat to non-iOS, on-Mac OS hardware. Do people seriously believe that the Nexus, Chrome Pixel, etc. are serious threats to Apple?

Four, none of Google's vaunted, well-publicized future hardware -- Google Glass, self-driving vehicles, etc -- compete with Apple in any way. Apple has its own future hardware plans that, I'll bet, have little to with such far-fetched (and perhaps silly, low-volume) initiatives.

Five, the software competition from Google -- Docs, Mail, Chrome, Maps, Google Play, music/media store, social networking, even Maps -- are all in areas that are either given away by, or at worst, incredibly low-margin, for Apple. Apple needs those things as part of its ecosystem to continue to support and strengthen its hardware profits. If it is trumped -- as it will be -- in some of those areas, what's the bid deal, as long as Apple is able to incorporate the winning software into its ecosystem?

Bottom line: I am beginning to tire of the "A versus G" fulminations.

The problem is that this fails to recognize Google's role as "Death [Shiva], the destroyer of worlds."

Google's revenue is from advertising not search. Search is a feature, a function, which generates no revenue of itself. As a result, Google is motivated to develop new markets and monetize said markets with advertising. Expanding the advertising business into non-traditional markets is an interesting and perhaps even admirable goal but stealing the works of others to do so is not.

Stealing copyrighted works to expand an advertising empire without compensating the originator questionable at best.
post #16 of 41
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacBook Pro View Post

Stealing copyrighted works to expand an advertising empire without compensating the originator questionable at best.

Are you claiming Google did that, or just throwing in some words to hope others read it that way?


Edited by Gatorguy - 4/11/13 at 8:57am
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post #17 of 41

Does Apple offer real-time stock quotes, yet? Delayed quotes is amateur hour.

post #18 of 41
Quote:
Originally Posted by EricTheHalfBee View Post

^ Got it. I should dumb down my posts for people who don't get the obvious. 1smile.gif

Exactly. Tis the Internet after all.
post #19 of 41
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacBook Pro View Post

The problem is that this fails to recognize Google's role as "Death [Shiva], the destroyer of worlds."

Google's revenue is from advertising not search. Search is a feature, a function, which generates no revenue of itself. As a result, Google is motivated to develop new markets and monetize said markets with advertising. Expanding the advertising business into non-traditional markets is an interesting and perhaps even admirable goal but stealing the works of others to do so is not.

Stealing copyrighted works to expand an advertising empire without compensating the originator questionable at best.

 

1) There is no advertising revenue for Google without search.

 

2) What does "stealing copyrighted works" have to do with Apple?

 

3) You know diddley-squat about Shiva. Don't go there.

post #20 of 41
Quote:
Originally Posted by anantksundaram View Post

1) There is no advertising revenue for Google without search.

2) What does "stealing copyrighted works" have to do with Apple?

3) You know diddley-squat about Shiva. Don't go there.

1. No. Search is simply one means at Google's disposal to monetize advertising. Read Google's annual reports.

2. Really?

3. Irrelevant. You don't know diddly-squat about 20th century history.
post #21 of 41

Wasn't Apple working with Yahoo back in the day?  I seem to remember an Apple home page that was populated with Yahoo content.  Before that I believe my home page was powered by Excite.

We've always been at war with Eastasia...

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We've always been at war with Eastasia...

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post #22 of 41
Quote:
Originally Posted by EricTheHalfBee View Post

Lies, all lies. Anyone who says iOS makes more money, has more ad impressions, or has higher Internet usage when they have lower overall market share is lying. Maybe they should go back to grade school to learn that 70%>30%.


Zzzzzzzz

post #23 of 41
Originally Posted by ankleskater View Post
Zzzzzzzz

 

Why would you call up nightmarez of thoze userz? 

post #24 of 41
Quote:
Originally Posted by diplication View Post

Wasn't Apple working with Yahoo back in the day?  I seem to remember an Apple home page that was populated with Yahoo content.  Before that I believe my home page was powered by Excite.


Jerry Yang came on stage when iPhone was first introduced. Yahoo's contribution was meager then - IMAP email. Yahoo Search was also built in as an alternative. Yang said at the time, "I hope we will provide more services for the iPhone in the future." Finally, it's happening. I think we can give credit to Marissa Mayer for that. I'm most excited about the sports part. It's not just about scores. The Yahoo Fantasy Sports API and Yahoo Sports RSS Feed are both data sources. Love to see how Apple and Yahoo might present a great experience to sports fans. I am hoping someone at Apple is enough of a sports junkie to make this happen (hello Phil Schiller).

post #25 of 41
ITS ALL ABOUT Siri.......

It seems like the recent purchase of Summly ( 30 mill. to a company owned by a 17 year old h.s kid ) was all about the underlining tech. The tech was develop by SRI, the company behind Siri and has a similar tech. It is even being called "Yahoo's Siri". I think this is apple's and yahoo's way to get at google.
I like the direction apple is going with this .

http://www.businessinsider.com/why-marissa-mayer-bought-a-30m-startup-2013-4
The world belongs to who wants it , now who deserves it.
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The world belongs to who wants it , now who deserves it.
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post #26 of 41
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

 

The implication is that Yahoo! has become "neutral ground" between Apple and Google's endeavors. Switzerland has historically remained neutral in European conflict for centuries, and such has served as a respite from war for a similar amount of time.

 

Not sure how valuable a respite Yahoo! is supposed to be, but that's not the consideration of the phrase. lol.gif


Especially in profiteering from Nazi Germany's behavior, and financial crises. Swiss not exactly a "pleasant" example, and Yahoo! should find inspiration elsewhere, imho.

 

Also, isn't Yahoo! a "friendly" company to Google, due to Marissa Mayer?

Social Capitalist, dreamer and wise enough to know I'm never going to grow up anyway... so not trying anymore.

 

http://m.ign.com/articles/2014/07/16/7-high-school-girls-are-kickstarting-their-awa...

Reply

Social Capitalist, dreamer and wise enough to know I'm never going to grow up anyway... so not trying anymore.

 

http://m.ign.com/articles/2014/07/16/7-high-school-girls-are-kickstarting-their-awa...

Reply
post #27 of 41
Quote:
Originally Posted by EricTheHalfBee View Post

^ Got it. I should dumb down my posts for people who don't get the obvious. 1smile.gif

 

I don't know if it's possible to dumb it down enough without just getting rid reading altogether and replacing it with pictures on flashcards.

post #28 of 41
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gatorguy View Post

Are you claiming Google did that, or just throwing in some words to hope others read it that way?

 

It's pretty much a proven fact that Google built everything they now have in mobile by copying what others were doing or had invented in multiple other companies and then changing it just a little bit.  

 

The characterisation of this copying as "stealing" is semantics, and the word is only in question because the lawsuits are still ongoing.  

 

The only real legal question left is whether Google is going to get away with this copying/stealing, or whether they will instead suffer some sort of minimal penalty as a result.  However if they don't get punished or sent to jail, it doesn't necessarily mean that what they are doing and have done is not "stealing" or wrong, just that managed to win the lawsuits.  

post #29 of 41
Quote:
Originally Posted by lightknight View Post


Especially in profiteering from Nazi Germany's behavior, and financial crises. Swiss not exactly a "pleasant" example, and Yahoo! should find inspiration elsewhere, imho.

 

Also, isn't Yahoo! a "friendly" company to Google, due to Marissa Mayer?

 

Companies and individuals in many countries profited rather handsomely through dealings with Nazi Germany including companies and individuals in the USA and Great Britain.  George Bush's grandfather made a ton of money off the Nazis for example, so singling out Switzerland is a bit unfair.  

 

Most of the leaders and leading institutions of all the Allied powers countries were also heavily anti-Semitic and collaborated in suppressing the Jews in Europe, but you don't hear much about that either.  

 

People would rather believe that the Nazis were "monsters" and that their rise was an aberration that was valiantly fought back by the "good guys" who had nothing to do with it themselves (even though nothing could be further from the truth).  The Nazis were actually regular normal people like you and me and their opinions and world-view were really only a hairsbreadth to the right of common opinion in Europe at the time on both the war in general and Jews in particular.  

post #30 of 41
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

I see far more benefit in an Apple buyout of Yahoo! for the latter than the former… 

 

That's code for "bump the stock up and make a hundred thousand before it collapses".

 

 

Cornflakes on a stick, man; use ¡, /s, or quotes! 1tongue.gif

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by jungmark View Post

Maybe this alleged partnership can make Yahoo relevant again.

well, judging by all the Tech Bloggers who's opinions I actually trust...Apple's Achillies heel has always been relying on 3rd parties for internet services, like search, maps, etc...and is talent deficient in it's own company due to the fact that Google, Facebook, Twitter has pretty much gobbled up all that talent.  Apple has always had a strong connection to Yahoo with it's services for the Weather app to name one.  Yahoo buying Summly and SRI (a company that once funded Siri)...this might be the right time to talk buy-out to absorb some talent in internet based Services.

 

The only real problem I see with that goes back to an episode of the Accidental Tech Podcast (or was it the Talk Show) where they were talking about Yahoo's current lack of talent now that they are kind of number 3 in the search giant arena.  But, Yahoo has a lot of ownership in services that could be of great help to Apple.  Too bad their mapping services are pretty lame.

 

My thought, buy Yahoo and absorb the talent...Marissa Mayer would be a great fit at Apple as the Chief VP of Internet Services division (not that she really wants a demotion of rank) and Apple Starts it's own Search Engine based on Yahoo's decade-long work.


Edited by antkm1 - 4/11/13 at 11:34am
post #31 of 41
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacBook Pro View Post

Arguably, the best move is for Apple to take a stake in Yahoo!

I suspect that Apple and Yahoo! have considerable overlapping demographics. In which case, the acquisition of Yahoo! may not be fiscally responsible.

An investment by Apple would further infuse Yahoo! with resources to improve services.
 

problem is, Apple doesn't need another strong 3rd party partnership for internet services.  Their existing Ecosystem is too big and too integrated with the platform and their internet services are far too weak to support another 3rd party solution.  They need and army of in-house talent working on Maps, Search, iCloud, and they needed it years ago.  They're relied for too long on 3rd parties to help make the platform more vibrant and rich.  Problem is, those 3rd parties are realizing they could do their own ecosystems without the help of Apple...and are not competitors.  Yahoo is one of the few valuable companies left that could be a huge asset to Apple's lack of talent in the Internet services arena.

post #32 of 41
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gazoobee View Post

The Nazis were actually regular normal people like you and me and their opinions and world-view were really only a hairsbreadth to the right of common opinion in Europe at the time on both the war in general and Jews in particular.  

I thought the Nazi opinions and worldview went well beyond Jews?

post #33 of 41
What the h*ll is Apple waiting to buy Yahoo! ?

Apple's webservices aren't good enough, and instead of building an all new infrastructure they should save money and precious time by buying Yahoo!

It's a no-brainer....
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post #34 of 41
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacBook Pro View Post


The problem is that this fails to recognize Google's role as "Death [Shiva], the destroyer of worlds."
 

That's just a myth some want to perpetuate. But continue.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by MacBook Pro View Post

Google's revenue is from advertising not search. Search is a feature, a function, which generates no revenue of itself. As a result, Google is motivated to develop new markets and monetize said markets with advertising. Expanding the advertising business into non-traditional markets is an interesting and perhaps even admirable goal but stealing the works of others to do so is not.
 


This is the same as saying Apple's revenue is from selling iPhones and not from designing them or from technology development.

post #35 of 41
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gazoobee View Post

 

It's pretty much a proven fact that Google built everything they now have in mobile by copying what others were doing or had invented in multiple other companies and then changing it just a little bit.  

 

If you truly believe this, you are delusional.

 

If you don't truly believe this, you are the ultimate troll here because you're trying so hard to incite others.

 

Either way, get a life.

post #36 of 41
Quote:
Originally Posted by EricTheHalfBee View Post

^ Got it. I should dumb down my posts for people who don't get the obvious. 1smile.gif

"dumb down" LOL

 

How much dumber can your posts get? LOLz

 

....

 

Sorry, it was too hard to resist.

post #37 of 41
Quote:
Originally Posted by lightknight View Post


Especially in profiteering from Nazi Germany's behavior, and financial crises. Swiss not exactly a "pleasant" example, and Yahoo! should find inspiration elsewhere, imho.

 

Also, isn't Yahoo! a "friendly" company to Google, due to Marissa Mayer?

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gazoobee View Post

 

Companies and individuals in many countries profited rather handsomely through dealings with Nazi Germany including companies and individuals in the USA and Great Britain.  George Bush's grandfather made a ton of money off the Nazis for example, so singling out Switzerland is a bit unfair.  

 

Most of the leaders and leading institutions of all the Allied powers countries were also heavily anti-Semitic and collaborated in suppressing the Jews in Europe, but you don't hear much about that either.  

 

People would rather believe that the Nazis were "monsters" and that their rise was an aberration that was valiantly fought back by the "good guys" who had nothing to do with it themselves (even though nothing could be further from the truth).  The Nazis were actually regular normal people like you and me and their opinions and world-view were really only a hairsbreadth to the right of common opinion in Europe at the time on both the war in general and Jews in particular.  

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by anantksundaram View Post

I thought the Nazi opinions and worldview went well beyond Jews?

 

Last time Godwin's law was demonstrated here, the thread was sanitized. Is it going to happen again?

post #38 of 41
Quote:
Originally Posted by ankleskater View Post

Last time Godwin's law was demonstrated here, the thread was sanitized. Is it going to happen again?

 

It hasn't been triggered yet. They wrote "Nazi," not "Hit...

 

Whoa, that was close!

post #39 of 41
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chandra69 View Post

What is the meaning of this sentence?  

 

 

They were neutral during World War 2, they did not side with the nazis or the allies.

post #40 of 41
Agree, Apple ought put Yahoo out of his misery and just buy it. That seems about the only way to fix the portal, which continues to suffer under the ages-old issue of porous security, among other things. Seemingly anyone in Eastern Europe with access to a keyboard has, at one time or another, passed the time by hacking Yahoo accounts. It would be ironic, since Apple had one of the best portals at the time right under its icon but didn't know what to do with: eWorld.
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