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French minister takes Apple to task over yanking AppGratis from App Store - Page 2

post #41 of 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by Slurpy View Post

 

Then it's a good thing you're not. 

And I agree. I have never once claimed that I would be a good CEO of Apple.lol.gif

 

I am not very diplomatic, many decisions made would piss many people off, I would never apologize and I would probably pull Apple entirely out of certain countries.

post #42 of 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by libertyforall View Post

Apple ultimately can run its AppStore they way it likes as a private contracted construct, as we all have the freedom as consumers and vendors to take our products and money to other platforms.  There is no reason that services like AppGratis could not become a web app instead!

 

France is socialist out of control -- big government run amok.  Everyone seems to think gov't needs to do more - when they really need to do LESS...  The free market works, if the bureaucrats would let it and stop interfering in every little thing.

 

I agree. Biggest barriers to a free market is the patent system and copyright laws. Abolish them and a lot of these other laws will not be needed.
post #43 of 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by anantksundaram View Post
Originally Posted by jd_in_sb View Post

We saved your a** in WWII so give us a break. /sarcasm
 


... and they saved ours long before that, so they're even. /s

 

Without the help of the French, you would still be speaking English

post #44 of 75
Quote:

Originally Posted by Apple ][ View Post

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by hungover View Post

I don't think that Apple ][ understands what altruism is..



 

Being the informed person that I am, I obviously know what it is. However, I do not agree with it and I find it to be a repulsive concept which is often misused and hijacked by people with not good intentions.

You just proved my point...

post #45 of 75
The whole controversy would not take place if Apple's AppStore search would blow everyone else away. But it doesn't.

Apple's search in such a large collection of apps is fairly lame and, at times, frustrating.

Moreover the review/rating section is fatally flawed for all but the largest national Apple AppStores.
Indeed, you can only see the reviews and ratings in your own national Apple AppStore, rendering the ratings statistically insignificant in many cases.
But most apps are language agnostic. There should at least be an option to include reviews by language (e.g., many people understand English).

And, to make things worse: If, as a workaround, you temporarily switch to the US store, you lose your context !!!
post #46 of 75
@robm long, actually. Maybe you should learn from it?

@nasserae yes, a GOVERNMENT complaining about COMPANIES making regulations. Makes sense, you see.

@slurpy agreed, sort of.

@tallest skil reaaaally? If there is a small issue, just drop a company's products nationwide? You kidding? Apple could just stop implementing rules overnight and retro-imposing them, but just impose them on NEW apps, then it would be fair.


She made the important points: France is the second mobile developer in the world, which legitimates her talking, and she's the minister for those developers.


@libertyforall: because the US government, right-wing by French standards, is making a better job? Lol, US debt wants to talk to you. The world needs more, and better, regulations. Less regulations just means big business get to do whatever they want.


Now, my take on this: I think Apple is doing this both in the interest of their ecosystem and the customer, but that Mrs. Pellerin has a very valid point when talking about the excessive control power (and the negative impact on innovation, because of investors getting scared) of huge companies _such_ as Apple.

Do you guys really want Microsoft, Google, AT&T or Apple to be the final decision makers on what content you're allowed to see? How about AT&T filtering which websites they will let you access?

Social Capitalist, dreamer and wise enough to know I'm never going to grow up anyway... so not trying anymore.

 

http://m.ign.com/articles/2014/07/16/7-high-school-girls-are-kickstarting-their-awa...

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Social Capitalist, dreamer and wise enough to know I'm never going to grow up anyway... so not trying anymore.

 

http://m.ign.com/articles/2014/07/16/7-high-school-girls-are-kickstarting-their-awa...

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post #47 of 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by VanFruniken View Post

The whole controversy would not take place if Apple's AppStore search would blow everyone else away. But it doesn't.

Apple's search in such a large collection of apps is fairly lame and, at times, frustrating.

Moreover the review/rating section is fatally flawed for all but the largest national Apple AppStores.
Indeed, you can only see the reviews and ratings in your own national Apple AppStore, rendering the ratings statistically insignificant in many cases.
But most apps are language agnostic. There should at least be an option to include reviews by language (e.g., many people understand English).

And, to make things worse: If, as a workaround, you temporarily switch to the US store, you lose your context !!!


The multiplicity of Stores is also quite annoying, for anyone who moves regularly around the globe... and we are many.

Social Capitalist, dreamer and wise enough to know I'm never going to grow up anyway... so not trying anymore.

 

http://m.ign.com/articles/2014/07/16/7-high-school-girls-are-kickstarting-their-awa...

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Social Capitalist, dreamer and wise enough to know I'm never going to grow up anyway... so not trying anymore.

 

http://m.ign.com/articles/2014/07/16/7-high-school-girls-are-kickstarting-their-awa...

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post #48 of 75
I hope you all see that this is anti-competitive behavior. This will lead Apple to more troubled times. I personally fear, that Apple is starting to act fearful.

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post #49 of 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by dreyfus2 View Post

No offence, but this is bordering on arrogance. While it may be hard for some people to understand, but there are societies that have other values than egoism. France has one of the best public school systems in the world, their public healthcare is among the best and most efficient world-wide (e.g. French health care index is 34 places ahead of the US, France is the country with the lowest number of avoidable deaths, while the US are dead last - pun intended - among developed nations, while having the highest prices for medical services, up to 500% above European rates), and poor dead people in France do still get an acceptable funeral and are not collected each night by garbage trucks as in Detroit. Why good education, healthcare for everybody and a respectful treatment of dead fellow citizens should be a "human rights violation"... escapes me for now. Of course, these things do cost money. And people paying the top tax rate of 75% can certainly afford it - they still make millions a year, which they can only make and enjoy, because others work for them (after enjoying good public schools), pick up their garbage and provide a safe environment with low crime rates.

Including all mandatory insurances and taxes I only see approx. 46% of my income each month (in Germany). But I have no problems paying that much. Even if my business goes downhill tomorrow, my children will still have access to good schools and universities, I will still have access to full health care (100%), I won't have to live in a trailer park or under a bridge, and when I die I will not be carried away by a garbage truck. I also enjoy that people around me do not have to live in misery, even if it costs "my" money. And I am not even religious...

...and another accolade: Great Post! 1biggrin.gif
Knowing what you are talking about would help you understand why you are so wrong. By "Realistic" - AI Forum Member
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Knowing what you are talking about would help you understand why you are so wrong. By "Realistic" - AI Forum Member
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post #50 of 75
I seriously don't understand the obsession with Apple's App Store, and what is allowed or not.

This developer knew full and well what he/she/they were getting into. The web on the other hand is pretty much free to do what you want.

It is just this kind of app... one that should be a Website/App... that should, and often does, get kicked out of the App Store.

Make a compelling website; link thru and engage to all of the social platforms; create the "Would you like to add this site to your home screen?"; link back to the App Store for the Apps you pushing today. Oh. So sorry, but that does mean you may have to work a bit, rather than try to game the App Store and take your chances with Apple's TOS.

I see this same BS with certain other consultants in my business telling my clients they need "iOS magazines", to be on mobile newstands, or a dedicated Company App... just to flog off a service contract for a resized PDF or a glorified flippin' webpage. 1mad.gif
Knowing what you are talking about would help you understand why you are so wrong. By "Realistic" - AI Forum Member
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Knowing what you are talking about would help you understand why you are so wrong. By "Realistic" - AI Forum Member
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post #51 of 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by ThePixelDoc View Post

I seriously don't understand the obsession with Apple's App Store, and what is allowed or not.

This developer knew full and well what he/she/they were getting into. The web on the other hand is pretty much free to do what you want.

It is just this kind of app... one that should be a Website/App... that should, and often does, get kicked out of the App Store.

I think it's more to do with the way they decide what's allowed and not allowed. The 2.25 clause in the agreement, which they violate was added last October. AppGratis has been around since 2008, though the app might have been submitted later.

The clause 5.6, which they also violate has been in there since 2010 and yet they've been approved right up until now - they might have just recently added push notifications though. It's fair enough if you knowingly violate all the rules and are blocked from admission to the store but when they allow to you to build a large userbase and a business around your app and then they effectively say 'we changed our minds, we added this new rule or noticed you violate an existing one and you're banned now' and in that instant, wipe out your entire business model, it's not a dependable way to build a business.

It is anti-competitive too, not just to benefit Apple because they banned AppShopper in December so AppGratis will have been getting business for the last 3-4 months and AppShopper hasn't been making any money at all and yet both apps violate the same clauses.

Like I say, it's a very difficult job managing content approval because to have a nicely curated store, you need to have and enforce rules but there are so many variables that doing this fairly with such a high volume of apps is always going to be problematic. The volume keeps going up and the problems will keep coming.
post #52 of 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marvin View Post

I think it's more to do with the way they decide what's allowed and not allowed. The 2.25 clause in the agreement, which they violate was added last October. AppGratis has been around since 2008, though the app might have been submitted later.

The clause 5.6, which they also violate has been in there since 2010 and yet they've been approved right up until now - they might have just recently added push notifications though. It's fair enough if you knowingly violate all the rules and are blocked from admission to the store but when they allow to you to build a large userbase and a business around your app and then they effectively say 'we changed our minds, we added this new rule or noticed you violate an existing one and you're banned now' and in that instant, wipe out your entire business model, it's not a dependable way to build a business.

It is anti-competitive too, not just to benefit Apple because they banned AppShopper in December so AppGratis will have been getting business for the last 3-4 months and AppShopper hasn't been making any money at all and yet both apps violate the same clauses.

Like I say, it's a very difficult job managing content approval because to have a nicely curated store, you need to have and enforce rules but there are so many variables that doing this fairly with such a high volume of apps is always going to be problematic. The volume keeps going up and the problems will keep coming.

Thanks that's a good explanation. I can see both sides of this now. It does look like they pushed their luck a bit too far and got noticed. Apple should have been quicker on stopping violations but having said that it seem clear to me that being caught breaking rules late, doesn't mean you therefore have a right to complain when you are caught. One could argue they were lucky to make the money they did before they were caught. If you see what I mean.

I have a sneaky feeling this French Minister will wish she'd not brought this up but then again maybe the lime light this has brought will help clarify this for both Apple and developers from here on out so is a good thing.
Been using Apple since Apple ][ - Long on AAPL so biased
nMac Pro 6 Core, MacBookPro i7, MacBookPro i5, iPhones 5 and 5s, iPad Air, 2013 Mac mini, SE30, IIFx, Towers; G4 & G3.
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Been using Apple since Apple ][ - Long on AAPL so biased
nMac Pro 6 Core, MacBookPro i7, MacBookPro i5, iPhones 5 and 5s, iPad Air, 2013 Mac mini, SE30, IIFx, Towers; G4 & G3.
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post #53 of 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by libertyforall View Post

Apple ultimately can run its AppStore they way it likes as a private contracted construct, as we all have the freedom as consumers and vendors to take our products and money to other platforms.  There is no reason that services like AppGratis could not become a web app instead!

 

France is socialist out of control -- big government run amok.  Everyone seems to think gov't needs to do more - when they really need to do LESS...  The free market works, if the bureaucrats would let it and stop interfering in every little thing.


If the free market works, as you say, how come we produce a lot more than we need and people are still starving, even in the US? That's a total failure, yes.

post #54 of 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by bottleworks View Post

I hope you all see that this is anti-competitive behavior. This will lead Apple to more troubled times. I personally fear, that Apple is starting to act fearful.
Guess what, Android is "winning" so develop for them. Don't like Apple's policies? Don't develop for them.
post #55 of 75
Originally Posted by bottleworks View Post
I hope you all see that this is anti-competitive behavior. This will lead Apple to more troubled times. I personally fear, that Apple is starting to act fearful.

 

Take your false concern elsewhere.


Originally Posted by hungover View Post

Without the help of the French, you would still be speaking English

 

Why are you pretending the United States doesn't speak English?

Originally Posted by helia

I can break your arm if I apply enough force, but in normal handshaking this won't happen ever.
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Originally Posted by helia

I can break your arm if I apply enough force, but in normal handshaking this won't happen ever.
Reply
post #56 of 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by GTR View Post

Most of you seem to be missing the most important point.

She's hot!

1wink.gif

(Yes, I am just being silly)

At least you were the first to post about her appearance and feminine status (in a nonviolent way), rather than the usual misogynist males assaulting a person's sexuality as a default way of showing they "disagree." But then, I guess she'd have to be ugly to garner that type of assault.

Still, any gender-based commentary of this kind indicates the object-status of females in human society. Sigh.

As for the topic at hand, I'm inclined to agree with the statements posed by other commentators where the app maker was in the wrong for developing something that they knew from the start would be conflicting with Apple policy. I thought the greatest excitement in capitalism was the risk of failure- oh, no, I've got that wrong, it's the opportunism.

Apple set the policy of the Apple store. Developers that don't like it shouldn't submit apps that go against policy. This isn't at all like Apple's anti-gay appearance in the comic book apps. This isn't sexuality, nationality or any other type of social platform. This is about an app maker thinking they could get around the rules by making a fuss over the rules and claim anticompetitive practices in a private environment they pay to play in. If they had created an app that was not about duplicating and obfuscating a built-in function, they'd have leg to stand on in promoting their shock and dismay. Surely they planned for this outcome, or they didn't do due diligence on their business model risk assessment when starting up in the first place.
post #57 of 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by libertyforall View Post

Apple ultimately can run its AppStore they way it likes as a private contracted construct, as we all have the freedom as consumers and vendors to take our products and money to other platforms.  There is no reason that services like AppGratis could not become a web app instead!

France is socialist out of control -- big government run amok.  Everyone seems to think gov't needs to do more - when they really need to do LESS...  The free market works, if the bureaucrats would let it and stop interfering in every little thing.

Ah, more libertarian/republican propaganda from someone that thinks the system works fine for him. The thing is, you aren't representative of all citizens.

Also, the free market is a lie. It does not police itself. You need only look at some history books: environmental destruction, child labor, lethal workplaces, monopolies, et cetera. The system doesn't work the way your fantasy propaganda wishes it did. Regulation by a non-invested party is the only way to keep human greed under control. The biggest problem with the market and all the losses lately are entirely driven by the greed and anticompetitive behavior of that market, not government regulation. Elimination of regulation has allowed the erosion of choice in most markets: media, medicine, food, technology, communications, etc. Choice is an illusion. All you have to do is look at the companies that own the companies that market the products you buy. There are very few these days. Back before the telecommunication regulation was ended, there were 12 service providers nationally. Today, after regulation has been undone, there are 3 (effectively 2 nationally). Etc.

Only someone benefitting from the corporate malfeasance (or hoping to), or someone brainwashed by the propaganda, can make claims that regulation is the source of all problems and that the market regulates itself. It's quite blatantly false. Society is being ground down by corporate entitlement, the environment is being wrecked, industry in the USA has been sold out, and citizens are suffering for corporate welfare ... a type of interference capitalists don't seem to mind... but "the system works..." Hah.
post #58 of 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by libertyforall View Post

France is socialist out of control -- big government run amok.  Everyone seems to think gov't needs to do more - when they really need to do LESS...  The free market works, if the bureaucrats would let it and stop interfering in every little thing.

 

Oh I wish more people in Europe would understand this. I try to stay the hell out of Europe as much as I can because of the insane government meddling. The UK has completely lost the plot in the last decade, there are insane rules for everything. It suffocates me, I can't bare it.

post #59 of 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by dysamoria View Post


Ah, more libertarian/republican propaganda from someone that thinks the system works fine for him. The thing is, you aren't representative of all citizens.

Also, the free market is a lie. It does not police itself. You need only look at some history books: environmental destruction, child labor, lethal workplaces, monopolies, et cetera. The system doesn't work the way your fantasy propaganda wishes it did. Regulation by a non-invested party is the only way to keep human greed under control. The biggest problem with the market and all the losses lately are entirely driven by the greed and anticompetitive behavior of that market, not government regulation. Elimination of regulation has allowed the erosion of choice in most markets: media, medicine, food, technology, communications, etc. Choice is an illusion. All you have to do is look at the companies that own the companies that market the products you buy. There are very few these days. Back before the telecommunication regulation was ended, there were 12 service providers nationally. Today, after regulation has been undone, there are 3 (effectively 2 nationally). Etc.

Only someone benefitting from the corporate malfeasance (or hoping to), or someone brainwashed by the propaganda, can make claims that regulation is the source of all problems and that the market regulates itself. It's quite blatantly false. Society is being ground down by corporate entitlement, the environment is being wrecked, industry in the USA has been sold out, and citizens are suffering for corporate welfare ... a type of interference capitalists don't seem to mind... but "the system works..." Hah.

Twaddle.

post #60 of 75

The difference is that when government makes abusive decisions, there is little accountability.

 

By the way, who makes the decision of what is "for the greater good?" Governments?

 

In my experience, governments rarely make decisions based on the greater good even when their motivations are "good."

 

Let capitalism weed out what consumers decide for companies. Let's get government and its mindless abuses out of the way.

 

At least companies will die and live based on what people are willing to pay for instead of selfish political motivations of what seems "good" to bureaucrats.

post #61 of 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zebra View Post

The difference is that when government makes abusive decisions, there is little accountability.

I don't think many people would disagree with the corruptibility and incompetence of government bodies and the lack of accountability but members of government are consumers too, they depend on businesses for money and they maintain essential social services. They have little choice but to keep the majority of people happy because they can be removed from power and as consumers, are affected by their own decisions. Companies only have to do what's right for themselves - they have a singular interest. The free market should be able to sort problems out but that only works in theory. If Exxon Mobil decided to screw everyone over by raising fuel prices, is everyone just going to cycle to work in protest?

If Apple makes stupid decisions with the App Store, I wouldn't switch to Android because I'd have to put with all the other crap that comes with it. The free market can only regulate itself in a very weak manner.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zebra View Post

By the way, who makes the decision of what is "for the greater good?" Governments?

As described above, a party that is not invested in the outcome. Examples would be a sports referee or a court judge. Everyone is corruptible of course and has a certain degree of inherent bias so it's never perfect but that's why the degree of impartiality is important.

That just takes care of the 'who makes the decision' though. The other problem is the determination of what is the greater good. It's like the example of preventing price fixing. Is it better to allow companies to set their own minimum levels of pricing to avoid making so little profit that it's no longer viable to do business and affects the entire economy or is it better to prevent companies from obtaining a supply monopoly and colluding to profiteer from consumers?

Everything has a balance and the impartial have to weigh each side to find the right one.
post #62 of 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

Originally Posted by hungover View Post

Without the help of the French, you would still be speaking English


 

 

Why are you pretending the United States doesn't speak English?

 

I should have qualified my post by saying English proper and that English would be the "official" language of the (whole) USA.

 

As things stand only 60% of states recognise English as their official language http://www.us-english.org/view/13 .

 

The USA is not officially an English speaking country..

post #63 of 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marvin View Post


I don't think many people would disagree with the corruptibility and incompetence of government bodies and the lack of accountability but members of government are consumers too, they depend on businesses for money and they maintain essential social services. They have little choice but to keep the majority of people happy because they can be removed from power and as consumers, are affected by their own decisions. Companies only have to do what's right for themselves - they have a singular interest. The free market should be able to sort problems out but that only works in theory. If Exxon Mobil decided to screw everyone over by raising fuel prices, is everyone just going to cycle to work in protest?

Everything has a balance and the impartial have to weigh each side to find the right one.

The proponents of a completely free market with little or no government interference seem to gloss over the earliest incarnation of capitalism, namely the period following the industrial revolution. the "free market" had no qualms about; small children being killed in the name of profit, large areas of country side burning in the name of rail transportation, Pea Soupers that killed hundreds of thousands, foods that were poisonous.

 

 

Sure Laissez-faire Capitalism is great, unfortunately it is only great for 5% of the population, not too bad for 25% and a bit shite for the remaining 70%....


Edited by hungover - 4/15/13 at 9:46am
post #64 of 75
Originally Posted by hungover View Post
…English proper…

 

Again, why are you pretending the US doesn't speak English?


…and that English would be the "official" language of the (whole) USA.

 

Independence was inevitable. 


The USA is not officially an English speaking country..


Right, and I think it works best that way.

Originally Posted by helia

I can break your arm if I apply enough force, but in normal handshaking this won't happen ever.
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Originally Posted by helia

I can break your arm if I apply enough force, but in normal handshaking this won't happen ever.
Reply
post #65 of 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

 

Again, why are you pretending the US doesn't speak English?

 

Independence was inevitable. 


Right, and I think it works best that way.

Sense of humour bypass?

 

I don't even understand your 2nd and 3rd points.

post #66 of 75
Originally Posted by hungover View Post
I don't even understand your 2nd and 3rd points.

 

Independence from Britain was inevitable at some point in history due to the sheer distance between the respective lands, even if the issue of representation had been solved.

 

That the United States does not have an official language works best to further the messages championed by its founding.

Originally Posted by helia

I can break your arm if I apply enough force, but in normal handshaking this won't happen ever.
Reply

Originally Posted by helia

I can break your arm if I apply enough force, but in normal handshaking this won't happen ever.
Reply
post #67 of 75
@ lightknight, no offense intended matey but,
I doubt any further study in the history of Frances International trade policies and practices would alter my opinion one iota.
Therefore I am not going to waste my time.
cheers
post #68 of 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by monstrosity View Post

 

Oh I wish more people in Europe would understand this. I try to stay the hell out of Europe as much as I can because of the insane government meddling. The UK has completely lost the plot in the last decade, there are insane rules for everything. It suffocates me, I can't bare it.

 

How horrible yes... that's why all countries of the EU have a lower Gini index than the US.

 

http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=Gini+index (click on more several times to see all countries)

 

We prefer equality (or at least we try), to privilegies.

post #69 of 75
As a Frenchman myself, I can tell you this government is made up mainly (?) of clowns, and I am being very kind with them by saying this.
France, and this particularly this government, is famous for changing business and especially tax rule every so often that it is impossible to plan any business development in this country anymore.
Like all her colleagues, this minister hopes to become popular by posturing and also hopes to make people forget how bad they are and how low they are in the opinion polls (about 26% positive opinions now and going down). And like her colleagues, she is speaking nonsense about things that she does not know or understand. She's just an annoyance and an embarrassment, like most of this government. Let's just hope her nuisance power is low enough to be as quickly dismissed as so many previous "actions" by this government.
post #70 of 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by Apple ][ View Post

And I agree. I have never once claimed that I would be a good CEO of Apple.lol.gif

 

I am not very diplomatic, many decisions made would piss many people off, I would never apologize and I would probably pull Apple entirely out of certain countries.

And you'd also run any country into the ground with those politics. Not that they need you for that, given the state of the French/US/UK debts.

By the way, what you call "demonization of the rich" is just pleading for a return to the tax levels of the 70s, when the tax system actually worked and did not unfairly help the super rich get even richer thanks to the hard work of the middle class, which I guess is you, or you'd not be on an Internet board, but probably on a surfboard ^^

Social Capitalist, dreamer and wise enough to know I'm never going to grow up anyway... so not trying anymore.

 

http://m.ign.com/articles/2014/07/16/7-high-school-girls-are-kickstarting-their-awa...

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Social Capitalist, dreamer and wise enough to know I'm never going to grow up anyway... so not trying anymore.

 

http://m.ign.com/articles/2014/07/16/7-high-school-girls-are-kickstarting-their-awa...

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post #71 of 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by Luke_MacWalker View Post

As a Frenchman myself, I can tell you this government is made up mainly (?) of clowns, and I am being very kind with them by saying this.
France, and this particularly this government, is famous for changing business and especially tax rule every so often that it is impossible to plan any business development in this country anymore.
Like all her colleagues, this minister hopes to become popular by posturing and also hopes to make people forget how bad they are and how low they are in the opinion polls (about 26% positive opinions now and going down). And like her colleagues, she is speaking nonsense about things that she does not know or understand. She's just an annoyance and an embarrassment, like most of this government. Let's just hope her nuisance power is low enough to be as quickly dismissed as so many previous "actions" by this government.

 

The previous government ran France into the ground, and this government is trying to solve the situation, which given the economy is far from obvious. The options offered to them are all the worse that clowns like Luke_MacWalker keep whining. True fact: for five years, the right wingers (and sadly, part of the savvy left-wingers with money) used right-wing provided (understand, previous government) tax holes to bring the not-so-morally saved money to Chili, Morroco and Argentina. And that's for the legal part... Go whine somewhere else, because that tax evasion is the reason why the current government has to find money now.

 

 

Hey Luke, go plan business development somewhere else. Okthxbye.

Social Capitalist, dreamer and wise enough to know I'm never going to grow up anyway... so not trying anymore.

 

http://m.ign.com/articles/2014/07/16/7-high-school-girls-are-kickstarting-their-awa...

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Social Capitalist, dreamer and wise enough to know I'm never going to grow up anyway... so not trying anymore.

 

http://m.ign.com/articles/2014/07/16/7-high-school-girls-are-kickstarting-their-awa...

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post #72 of 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by dysamoria View Post



Still, any gender-based commentary of this kind indicates the object-status of females in human society. Sigh.

Disagree. Women make the same kind of comments about me hot guys. It just indicates that sexuality is a basis of human relationships, and I'm happy with that ^^

Social Capitalist, dreamer and wise enough to know I'm never going to grow up anyway... so not trying anymore.

 

http://m.ign.com/articles/2014/07/16/7-high-school-girls-are-kickstarting-their-awa...

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Social Capitalist, dreamer and wise enough to know I'm never going to grow up anyway... so not trying anymore.

 

http://m.ign.com/articles/2014/07/16/7-high-school-girls-are-kickstarting-their-awa...

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post #73 of 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by RobM View Post

@ lightknight, no offense intended matey but,
I doubt any further study in the history of Frances International trade policies and practices would alter my opinion one iota.
Therefore I am not going to waste my time.
cheers

Well, if studying the subject cannot alter your preconception, I guess you're right. Don't waste your time ^^

Social Capitalist, dreamer and wise enough to know I'm never going to grow up anyway... so not trying anymore.

 

http://m.ign.com/articles/2014/07/16/7-high-school-girls-are-kickstarting-their-awa...

Reply

Social Capitalist, dreamer and wise enough to know I'm never going to grow up anyway... so not trying anymore.

 

http://m.ign.com/articles/2014/07/16/7-high-school-girls-are-kickstarting-their-awa...

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post #74 of 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by anantksundaram View Post


... and they saved ours long before that, so they're even. /s

Should it even matter anyway? 

 

France helped the US because it was the right thing to do, and it actually annoyed England (never a thing to be turned down for the French).

The US helped Europe because it was the right thing to do, and because Japan attacked them, which brought America in a frontal war with the Axis.

 

What matters is that, in the end, Americans, French, or even Russians and Germans that were the enemy (Russia changed sides... when Germany invaded them), were not abstract communities, but real men and women suffering real pain and dying real deaths.

Social Capitalist, dreamer and wise enough to know I'm never going to grow up anyway... so not trying anymore.

 

http://m.ign.com/articles/2014/07/16/7-high-school-girls-are-kickstarting-their-awa...

Reply

Social Capitalist, dreamer and wise enough to know I'm never going to grow up anyway... so not trying anymore.

 

http://m.ign.com/articles/2014/07/16/7-high-school-girls-are-kickstarting-their-awa...

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post #75 of 75

For a simple explanation for others: (...)

Forget it, there has not been a right wing government in France for more than 30 years.

The current government is not trying to save anything else than its a** and the ones of its traditional "customers".

Nonetheless it's funny to read how its supporters criticizes the previous government for doing exactly what they expects the current one to do (giving more money away, rising taxes, just like the previous one).

 

> Go whine somewhere else, because that tax evasion is the reason why the current government has to find money now.

This is way beyond the ridiculous limit, should one ever be invented! :-D

You are just believing the propaganda. Good luck with the next excuse that will follow when this one proves empty. Continue giving up your freewill little by little, like you already did with your liberty of thinking obviously.

 

> Hey Luke, go plan business development somewhere else. Okthxbye.

It's already being done, thank you. I did not need your advice to move along... and away from France! :-D

 

Social Capitalist, dreamer and wise enough to know I'm never going to grow up anyway... so not trying anymore.

Yes, it shows!  :-D

 
 
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