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Steve Jobs' widow to promote immigration reform in rare interview with NBC's Rock Center - Page 3

post #81 of 122
Quote:
Originally Posted by Apple ][ View Post

Are you illegal? Because it sure sounds like it, judging by your hilarious rage shown in this thread.

Why? Since when were comedians (in your view) illegal beings?

post #82 of 122
Quote:
Originally Posted by ankleskater View Post

The entirety of Latin America? Highly inaccurate. Deliberately inflammatory. Entirely ignorant and xenophobic. The worst post ever.

Ok I challenge you to build a house anywhere in Latin America, without iron bars on the windows and doors, which is not inside of a guarded gated community, and then leave it unprotected while you go on vacation. Good luck with that. 

 

I do that all the time with my home in California and never once had any problem. I wouldn't dream of doing that anywhere in Latin America.


Edited by mstone - 4/12/13 at 12:19pm

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post #83 of 122
Pay no attention to treacherous illegals like Apple][. There is no conceivable justification for calling one person that commits an illegal act "an illegal" while calling the rest "people." Since undocumented workers are the only thing keeping the agricultural industry in the United States functional, we need to work together to stop unAmerican freedom haters like Apple][; if you hate what makes America work, then clearly you hate America. Apple][ and illegals like Apple][ should be deported so that they stop acting as a drain on our economy. If we only had people (and not illegals, which are not people, like Apple][) in this country that understood the basic structure of our businesses and economy the United States would be in much better shape than it is.

Deport unAmerican illegals like Apple][ or you hate America!
post #84 of 122
Quote:
Originally Posted by ankleskater View Post


I didn't call anyone racist in this thread. I didn't call anyone whatnot (I only resort to that insult when I am angry). I did use the term "xenophobia". If you really understand the meaning of the word, you will have no choice but to agree that your position is xenophobic. Sorry, but there it is.

 

I always labeled some comments as ignorant. Again, the shoe fits. Why? Because Mrs Jobs was talking about a specific program that would increase the intellectual capital of the USA. Yet you'd call her anti-American?

 

Shoe. Foot. Fits. It just happens to be in your mouth. Mmphmmphphph ....

The position that I hold is absolutely not xenophobic at all. My position in not based on an irrational fear of that which is perceived to be foreign.

 

My position is based on many things, including common sense, security, fairness and a belief that cheating lowlifes should not be allowed to become American citizens. And by lowlifes, I mean people who do not respect the USA, it's borders or it's people. If somebody wishes to become an American citizen, cheating the system and the country and the people of that country by fraud and other criminal means is not exactly proof that they are deserving of becoming an American citizen, so screw them. I know plenty of immigrants, legal ones who have gone through the appropriate steps to be in the country legally.

post #85 of 122
Quote:
Originally Posted by Apple ][ View Post

The position that I hold is absolutely not xenophobic at all. My position in not based on an irrational fear of that which is perceived to be foreign.

 

My position is based on many things, including common sense, security, fairness and a belief that cheating lowlifes should not be allowed to become American citizens. And by lowlifes, I mean people who do not respect the USA, it's borders or it's people. If somebody wishes to become an American citizen, cheating the system and the country and the people of that country by fraud and other criminal means is not exactly proof that they are deserving of becoming an American citizen, so screw them. I know plenty of immigrants, legal ones who have gone through the appropriate steps to be in the country legally.


But that's not what Mrs. Jobs was talking about, was it?

post #86 of 122
Quote:
Originally Posted by DeanSolecki View Post

There is no conceivable justification for calling one person that commits an illegal act "an illegal" while calling the rest "people." 

Sure there is.

 

An American citizen who commits a crime on US soil would still be an American citizen even if they went and murdered somebody, since they are a citizen of the country after all.

 

A person who comes from a foreign country and illegally trespasses into the USA and then continues to commit fraud and deceive and cheat the US govt and the people of this country while they are here illegally can absolutely be called an illegal. Every single footstep that they take in this country is illegal, as they should not be here, they are illegally trespassing. They are foreign intruders.

post #87 of 122
Originally Posted by mstone View Post
Ok I challenge you to build a house anywhere in Latin America, without iron bars on the windows and doors, which is not inside of a guarded gated community, and then leave it unprotected while you go on vacation. Good luck with that. 

 

I do that all the time with my home in California and never once had any problem. I wouldn't dream of doing that anywhere in Latin America.


There are many houses in Latin America without bars on windows and doors. You lose the challenge. 

post #88 of 122
Quote:
Originally Posted by ankleskater View Post


But that's not what Mrs. Jobs was talking about, was it?

She's talking about the dream act, and I am not a supporter of that.

post #89 of 122
Originally Posted by ankleskater View Post
There are many houses in Latin America without bars on windows and doors. You lose the challenge. 

Yes that is true. There are many houses that don't even have doors or windows but if you have a nice house it needs to be protected and not just with bars. You need a caretaker when you leave for an extended period. I don't often agree with Apple ][ but in this case he is right about the word xenophobe. I think you need to reread the definition. I live there, I was born there, I speak the language, all my closest friends are there, I have two businesses there. I regularly do charity work there with the local indian tribes. What the heck are you talking about? Again, another person living in fantasy land.

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post #90 of 122
Quote:
Originally Posted by Apple ][ View Post

Sure there is.

An American citizen who commits a crime on US soil would still be an American citizen even if they went and murdered somebody, since they are a citizen of the country after all.

A person who comes from a foreign country and illegally trespasses into the USA and then continues to commit fraud and deceive and cheat the US govt and the people of this country while they are here illegally can absolutely be called an illegal. Every single footstep that they take in this country is illegal, as they should not be here, they are illegally trespassing. They are foreign intruders.

Although it is somewhat beneath me to engage in conversation with an illegal, I will briefly point out that this is not a separatist society, and there are many ways in which people might be here illegally that are not citizens, but either way "illegal" does not have anything to do with citizenship. Of course, if you don't register your vehicle with the DMV, every moment that you're the owner of that unregistered vehicle you're committing a crime, and actively engaged in illegal activity. Therefore people who fit that profile should be hung publicly as a warning to the rest of the illegals (and by that I mean anyone that does anything illegal, including jaywalking.)

Because morality doesn't matter, the only thing that matters is whether or not someone is an illegal, and since everyone is an illegal, everyone should be denied basic human rights. The law is the law, and people that break it deserve death; especially people that park for 22 minutes in an area that is marked "20 minute parking."

(What ~amazes~ me is that because breaking that ONE law is really important to you, you don't see how your argument could be applied to anyone that breaks any law. Logic doesn't exclude it, and you have been careful not to invoke MORALITY, because if you did everything you've said thus far would be void. So you're standing on vapor, you unAmerican illegal.)
post #91 of 122
Quote:
Originally Posted by Apple ][ View Post

The dude is from there.

How in the hell can he be xenophobic?

Some of you pro-illegal liberals need to learn how to discuss without constantly resorting to ignorant and false name calling.

Self loathing then. It's funny how people that were once hated propagate that same hatred. Every single immigrant group was hated by the oneshere already. The Italians were hated, the Irish were hated, the Jews were hated (and still are), etc, etc..... Wanna know why the Irish or so prevalent in law enforcement? Because nobody would hire them except for the local government. Every group of immigrants start off as criminals, just look at the amount of illegal activity committed by gangsters 100 years ago, but their children went on to become educated and stop the criminal activity. The same has happened with every wave of immigrants and the Mexicans are no different from the Irish, the Italians, the Jews so on and so forth.
Edited by dasanman69 - 4/12/13 at 1:10pm
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"Few things are harder to put up with than the annoyance of a good example" Mark Twain
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post #92 of 122
Quote:
Originally Posted by DeanSolecki View Post

Although it is somewhat beneath me to engage in conversation with an illegal, I will briefly point out that this is not a separatist society, and there are many ways in which people might be here illegally that are not citizens, but either way "illegal" does not have anything to do with citizenship. Of course, if you don't register your vehicle with the DMV, every moment that you're the owner of that unregistered vehicle you're committing a crime, and actively engaged in illegal activity. Therefore people who fit that profile should be hung publicly as a warning to the rest of the illegals (and by that I mean anyone that does anything illegal, including jaywalking.)

Because morality doesn't matter, the only thing that matters is whether or not someone is an illegal, and since everyone is an illegal, everyone should be denied basic human rights. The law is the law, and people that break it deserve death; especially people that park for 22 minutes in an area that is marked "20 minute parking."

(What ~amazes~ me is that because breaking that ONE law is really important to you, you don't see how your argument could be applied to anyone that breaks any law. Logic doesn't exclude it, and you have been careful not to invoke MORALITY, because if you did everything you've said thus far would be void. So you're standing on vapor, you unAmerican illegal.)

Now you are just being silly. Everyone agrees, I think, that the US has a problem with unwanted, illegal, undocumented, whatever you want to call it, immigration, especially on the southern border. Regardless of how the the government sorts out the matter of the current non-US-citizens residing within the country, there is little point in debating the amnesty issue until the US can secure its borders to prevent any more infiltration.

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post #93 of 122
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Originally Posted by mstone View Post

Yes that is true. There are many houses that don't even have doors or windows but if you have a nice house it needs to be protected and not just with bars. You need a caretaker when you leave for an extended period. I don't often agree with Apple ][ but in this case he is right about the word xenophobe. I think you need to reread the definition. I live there, I was born there, I speak the language, all my closest friends are there, I have two businesses there. I regularly do charity work there with the local indian tribes. What the heck are you talking about? Again, another person living in fantasy land.


I am talking about the fact that if you paint Latin America with a single broad stroke (or any region), you're doomed to be wrong. The question is why you need to paint some broadly? The answer explains my diatribe (I went overboard but there it is).

 

I must point out, as others have done many times, anecdotes such as "I was born there ... I have friends ...." are neither meaningful (because anyone can say anything here) nor sufficient rationalization. To wit, many people live "here", work "here" and yet are wrong on oh so many issues American.

 

To repeat, your broad stroke of stereotyping dooms you to be wrong, wrong, wrong.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone View Post

Yes that is true. There are many houses that don't even have doors or windows but if you have a nice house it needs to be protected and not just with bars.

 

So you are also one of those ....one of those people who write with absolute certainty about something and then retreat with qualifications. No matter. You lost your challenge, and I didn't even have to "go there".

post #94 of 122
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone View Post

Now you are just being silly. Everyone agrees, I think, that the US has a problem with unwanted, illegal, undocumented, whatever you want to call it, immigration, especially on the southern border. Regardless of how the the government sorts out the matter of the current non-US-citizens residing here, there is little point in debating the amnesty issue until the US can secure its borders to prevent any more infiltration.

I think the ~problem~ is that some xenophobes in this country fail to see how important this work force is to the functioning of our society, much in the way that the rural workforce is integral to the success of China's economy. Since arguments of morality are beyond the measure of your garden variety American, we can throw those arguments out, but securing the borders would be a death sentence for many American industries. I can't understand why people like you hate America so much, but destroying the economy to injure minorities seems a little over the top.
post #95 of 122
Quote:
Originally Posted by ankleskater View Post

To repeat, your broad stroke of stereotyping dooms you to be wrong, wrong, wrong.

To be fair I originally clarified my statement with "Although there are pockets of civility, in general..." Sure it is a generalization but when something is so overwhelmingly true, the exceptions become mere technicalities. The next time you visit Latin America, get a local giude and see the countryside outside of the walls of the resort community. It is a stark contrast to the travel brochure.

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post #96 of 122
Quote:
Originally Posted by ankleskater View Post


I am talking about the fact that if you paint Latin America with a single broad stroke (or any region), you're doomed to be wrong. The question is why you need to paint some broadly? The answer explains my diatribe (I went overboard but there it is).

I must point out, as others have done many times, anecdotes such as "I was born there ... I have friends ...." are neither meaningful (because anyone can say anything here) nor sufficient rationalization. To wit, many people live "here", work "here" and yet are wrong on oh so many issues American.

To repeat, your broad stroke of stereotyping dooms you to be wrong, wrong, wrong.


So you are also one of those ....one of those people who write with absolute certainty about something and then retreat with qualifications. No matter. You lost your challenge, and I didn't even have to "go there".

It is overwhelmingly probable that the person in question is of predominantly spanish decent, and viewing "nearly all of Mexico" (that is, the ethnically non-spanish majority) as "uncivilized" is perfectly consistent with the bigotries that are prevalent within the Mexican upper-class.
post #97 of 122
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Originally Posted by DeanSolecki View Post


It is overwhelmingly probable that the person in question is of predominantly spanish decent, and viewing "nearly all of Mexico" (that is, the ethnically non-spanish majority) as "uncivilized" is perfectly consistent with the bigotries that are prevalent within the Mexican upper-class.

Yes, I even heard that he might be a member of the Nazi party, Latin American branch. Only on Wednesdays and Saturdays though, because he attends KKK meetings on the remaining days.

post #98 of 122
Quote:
Originally Posted by DeanSolecki View Post

Since arguments of morality are beyond the measure of your garden variety American, we can throw those arguments out, but securing the borders would be a death sentence for many American industries.

The American public and American industries have only themselves to blame for becoming dependent on workers who entered the country without formal approval. Perhaps they should see their crops rot in the fields and the grocery store shelves empty so that it personally touches their lives. Then perhaps they would be more willing to amend the immigration laws to allow guest worker visas, which would be the only fair way to deal with the issue in my opinion. Employers need to be paying their share of social security, workman's comp, and deducting payroll taxes. Why should food growers be exempt from abiding by the law? I have to pay all my legal requirements for my employees. Is the law only applicable to legal citizens or should it apply to everyone working within the country? The US has a huge deficit problem right now and throwing away all that tax revenue does not make sense. 

 

Do you realize that many undocumented workers in the US are making $10-12+ dollars an hour (at least in California) and not paying one cent in taxes?

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post #99 of 122
Quote:
Originally Posted by DeanSolecki View Post

It is overwhelmingly probable that the person in question is of predominantly spanish decent, and viewing "nearly all of Mexico" (that is, the ethnically non-spanish majority) as "uncivilized" is perfectly consistent with the bigotries that are prevalent within the Mexican upper-class.

You are somewhat correct. I am of European decent, but the position I am arguing is that someone keeps breaking into homes, stores, cars and doing all sorts of other criminal activity and whoever they are I wish they would stop, but I'm not holding my breath. There is a reason why there are at least four policemen with machine guns at every bank. Two on the outside and two on the inside and all your bags or purses are searched before they unlock the doors and allow you to enter.

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post #100 of 122
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Originally Posted by mstone View Post

You are somewhat correct. I am of European decent, but the position I am arguing is that someone keeps breaking into homes, stores, cars and doing all sorts of other criminal activity and whoever they are I wish they would stop, but I'm not holding my breath. There is a reason why there are at least four policemen with machine guns at every bank. Two on the outside and two on the inside and all your bags or purses are searched before they unlock the doors and allow you to enter.

And the reason for that state of things is that an ethnic minority came into the region and set up a system of law that was purely for their own benefit, that does very little to improve or enrich the lives of the general population which they exploit or ignore, depending on their interests. Now you have a massively corrupt "democracy" which fails fundamentally at giving these "criminals" a reason to abide by the laws of a society that has no concern for them; why on earth would anyone adhere to laws that are designed to subjugate and exploit them, on strictly, glaringly ethnic lines?

Prudence. That is the only reason. And thus you have machine guns outside every bank.
post #101 of 122
Quote:
Originally Posted by DeanSolecki View Post

And the reason for that state of things is that an ethnic minority came into the region and set up a system of law that was purely for their own benefit, that does very little to improve or enrich the lives of the general population which they exploit or ignore, depending on their interests. Now you have a massively corrupt "democracy" which fails fundamentally at giving these "criminals" a reason to abide by the laws of a society that has no concern for them; why on earth would anyone adhere to laws that are designed to subjugate and exploit them, on strictly, glaringly ethnic lines?

Prudence. That is the only reason. And thus you have machine guns outside every bank.

Pure conjecture. You are doing exactly what I was accused of - generalizing with a broad brush except you have no legitimacy because you don't know your history and have no personal experience in the matter.

 

For example in Costa Rica, the land was originally settled by Europeans. There were no ethnic tribes in that area and the settlers had to do all of their own farming without any native labor. Only in more recent times did the native indians from neighboring Nicaragua migrate (illegally) to become the farm laborers they are today. It is not all black or white, however condoning criminal acts is never justified even if the ethnicity is unbalanced between the poor and the wealthy. Why do you think anyone robs a bank? They need the money. Do we give people in the US a free pass to rob banks just because they are poor or of some ethic group? No. 

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post #102 of 122
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Originally Posted by mstone View Post

Pure conjecture. You are doing exactly what I was accused of - generalizing with a broad brush except you have no legitimacy because you don't know your history and have no personal experience in the matter.

For example in Costa Rica, the land was originally settled by Europeans. There were no ethnic tribes in that area and the settlers had to do all of their own farming without any native labor. Only in more recent times did the native indians from neighboring Nicaragua migrate (illegally) to become the farm laborers they are today. It is not all black or white, however condoning criminal acts is never justified even if the ethnicity is unbalanced between the poor and the wealthy. Why do you think anyone robs a bank? They need the money. Do we give people in the US a free pass to rob banks just because they are poor? No. 

I was speaking specifically of the circumstances in Mexico, as I thought that the conversation had been restricted to that domain, and I would agree with you when you say I don't know the history, beyond that region, although I would ~guess~ that most of central/south america would be similar to Mexico, and Costa Rica would be an unusual exception, of which I can't speak without researching a bit.
post #103 of 122
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Originally Posted by mstone View Post

You are somewhat correct. I am of European decent, but the position I am arguing is that someone keeps breaking into homes, stores, cars and doing all sorts of other criminal activity and whoever they are I wish they would stop, but I'm not holding my breath. There is a reason why there are at least four policemen with machine guns at every bank. Two on the outside and two on the inside and all your bags or purses are searched before they unlock the doors and allow you to enter.

That too is hardly universal in Latin America.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone View Post

Pure conjecture. You are doing exactly what I was accused of - generalizing with a broad brush except you have no legitimacy because you don't know your history and have no personal experience in the matter.

For example in Costa Rica, the land was originally settled by Europeans. There were no ethnic tribes in that area and ....

Absolutely untrue.

post #104 of 122
Quote:
Originally Posted by DeanSolecki View Post

I was speaking specifically of the circumstances in Mexico, as I thought that the conversation had been restricted to that domain, and I would agree with you when you say I don't know the history, beyond that region, although I would ~guess~ that most of central/south america would be similar to Mexico, and Costa Rica would be an unusual exception, of which I can't speak without researching a bit.

No I was being chastised for generalizing about Latin America. There are many ethnic situations there and they are all different. For example the native indian tribes of Panama were only a fraction of the population during the early 1900s. Besides the Spanish immigrants there were the French, the Americans, and the Chinese, all as large or larger populations than the native indians. In Brasil, there is probably the least amount of ethnic prejudice of any other Latin American country and in Argentina the population is almost entirely of European decent except in the wild bad lands in the three corners region. So no, most of Central and South America is not necessarily similar Mexico.

 

I'm not saying there isn't a lot of exploitation of native ethnicities in some countries but certainly not to the degree that you suggest. Latin America has a long way to go before it could be considered a first world region but you can't put all the blame on the European decedents just because they didn't make what some people feel is the proper effort to educate the indian population. the US didn't make much of an effort to educate their indian population either. They put them on reservations which could be considered much worse than what took place in Latin America as at least the indians have always been free to go wherever they wanted. In fact there are some tribes near the borders that have no documentation whatsoever however they are allowed to freely cross borders because they are indigenous and granted free seasonal migration.

 

I'm getting way off on a tangent however I do resent being called a xenophobe.

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post #105 of 122
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Originally Posted by ankleskater View Post

 

Absolutely untrue.

By the time that Costa Rica was actually settled, the indigenous tribes had already been decimated by smallpox brought by the original Spanish explorers. The east coast was generally the region the indians were inhabiting however the European settlers were building farms on the west coast where the rich volcanic soil was. In either case there were virtually no indigenous indians doing any farm labor in the beginning during the initial European settlements.

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post #106 of 122
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Originally Posted by mstone View Post

By the time that Costa Rica was actually settled, the indigenous tribes had already been decimated by smallpox brought by the original Spanish explorers. The east coast was generally the region the indians were inhabiting however the European settlers were building farms on the west coast where the rich volcanic soil was. In either case there were virtually no indigenous indians doing any farm labor in the beginning during the initial European settlements.

 

So now the story has morphed from "The Europeans were the first to settle in Costa Rica" to "ok, they weren't there first but they wiped out the earlier settlers"?

 

Volcanic soil? Farm labor? Those are the issues/criteria we are examining? I thought it was simpler the veracity of statement "Europeans got there first"? How much more transparent can you be in your Wikipedia/Google/Appleinsider hopping? Either way, I was right - your statement was absolutely untrue, even by your admission.

 

If you don't know something, don't go doing "research" and pose as a source of knowledge. Not interested in debating Jimmy Wales or Stephen Wolfram, or a shifting position.

 

It's ok to say, "I am a dumb ass. Teach me."


Edited by ankleskater - 4/12/13 at 3:49pm
post #107 of 122
Originally Posted by ankleskater View Post
So now the story has morphed from "The Europeans were the first to settle in Costa Rica" to "ok, they weren't there first but they wiped out the earlier settlers"?

 

His statements aren't mutually exclusive. Costa Rica could easily have been de facto virgin land, free from indigenous, despite them residing there previously.

 

The difference he's illustrating is the one between colonizing such a location and the colonization of North America, which was full of humans at time of colonization.

post #108 of 122
Quote:
Originally Posted by Apple ][ View Post

The position that I hold is absolutely not xenophobic at all. My position in not based on an irrational fear of that which is perceived to be foreign.

My position is based on many things, including common sense, security, fairness and a belief that cheating lowlifes should not be allowed to become American citizens. And by lowlifes, I mean people who do not respect the USA, it's borders or it's people. If somebody wishes to become an American citizen, cheating the system and the country and the people of that country by fraud and other criminal means is not exactly proof that they are deserving of becoming an American citizen, so screw them. I know plenty of immigrants, legal ones who have gone through the appropriate steps to be in the country legally.

Every immigrant group that's come to the US was at first "cheating lowlifes"

Here's a interesting read for my Irish brethren. http://www.kinsella.org/history/histira.htm
Quote:
The Chicago Post wrote, "The Irish fill our prisons, our poor houses...Scratch a convict or a pauper, and the chances are that you tickle the skin of an Irish Catholic. Putting them on a boat and sending them home would end crime in this country."

Sound familiar?

Italians
Quote:
On the night of December 7, 1941, in the after effects of the bombing of Pear Harbor, United States agents gathered up Italian nationals suspected of disloyalty. The majority of these Italians were immigrants in the process of becoming U.S. citizens (Vecoli, R., 2004). Many had been living in America for decades but had not been naturalized yet

After the First World War, the Italians developed a reputation for becoming criminals

Many immigrants were too afraid to speak Italian in public. The government even encouraged this with posters that encouraged, "Don't Speak the Enemy's Language! Speak American!"

So get off your high horse because whatever background you have that you think is so great was once consider scum of the earth.
Edited by dasanman69 - 4/12/13 at 4:26pm
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"Just because something is deemed the law doesn't make it just" - SolipsismX
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"Few things are harder to put up with than the annoyance of a good example" Mark Twain
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post #109 of 122
Quote:
Originally Posted by dasanman69 View Post


Every immigrant group that's come to the US was at first "cheating lowlifes"

Here's a interesting read for my Irish brethren. http://www.kinsella.org/history/histira.htm

Italians

I get your point. But every immigrant group? What about those from Africa, who worked the plantations, or those from China, who built the railroads?

post #110 of 122
Quote:
Originally Posted by ankleskater View Post

[, I was right - your statement was absolutely untrue, even by your admission.

If you don't know something, don't go doing "research" and pose as a source of knowledge.

That is what we were taught and perhaps the reason there were no Indians working on the farms was not fully explained in school only that there were none living there. Why they weren't living there was perhaps not something they wanted to teach. Sort like the Japanese version of the atomic bomb. But that is where the Internet is quite useful. You get to learn things that were not taught in school. In any event the things today are not that great in Latin America and there is a lot of misinformation such as Costa Rica having low crime rate which I find hard to believe from my experiences. Still taking refuge behind a double series of locked gates.

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post #111 of 122
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Originally Posted by mstone View Post

You are living in a fantasy world my friend. The entirety of Latin American is a wild, lawless place. There are pockets of civility but generally speaking the drug problem is pervasive. Simply cleaning up a few Mexican border states only pushes the root of the problem a little further south to the new border. Utter futility. 

 

 
You knee cap the Cocaine industry by legalizing Coca Leaf Teas. You offer the land owners a choice to grow it and sell its inert and powerful medicinal qualities for billions in trade value and thus hire an entire legal distribution channel in agriculture providing a quality of living much higher than the average person or you require each nation-state to manage and facilitate overseeing the operations: either way you knee cap the entire South American Cocaine operation and drastically reduce the need for resources with The War on Drugs.
 
I highly recommend One River, by Wade Davis [Professor of Ethnobotany and author of Serpent and The Rainbow]:
 
 
The USDA already tested the viable qualities of Coca Leaf tea and the lack of cancer in the indigenous populations of The Andes Mountains and in the 1950s the world's leading Ethnobotanist and chair at Harvard, Dr. Schultes was given the results from then head of the USDA, Jim Duke, in June 1974:
 

Page 418:

Quote:
After examing 1KG of Coca Leaf this benign and mild stimulant in leaf/tea form compared to the average nutritional contents of 50 foods regularly consumed in Latin America produced Coca ranking higher than the average in calories, protein, carbohydrates, and fiber. It was also higher in calcium, phosphrous, iron, vitamin A, and riboflavin, so much so that one hundred grams of the leaves [typical daily consumption of a coquero in the Andes], more than satisfied the Recommended Dietary Allowance for these nutrients as well as vitamin E.
 
The amount of calcium in the leaves was extraordinary, more than had ever been reported for any edible plant. This was expecially significant. Until the arrival of the Spaniards there were no dairy products in the Andes, and even today milk is rarely consumed. The high level of calcium suggested that coca might have been an essential element of the traditional diet, particularly for nursing women.

 

The USDA went on record detailing the benign results and comparing the 100% pure cocaine extract to that of pure caffeine and how Coca Leaf in its benign and natural leaf form is the panacea to the dietary habits of those living in the Andes Mountains.
 

It's illegal to consume Coca Leaf tea in the United States, irregardless that it has less stimulative qualities than a typical daily amount of caffeine from coffee consumed in the US.

 

Cocaine can be resolved. Too many hands don't want it to happen.

post #112 of 122
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone View Post


That is what we were taught and perhaps the reason there were no Indians working on the farms was not fully explained in school only that there were none living there. Why they weren't living there was perhaps not something they wanted to teach. Sort like the Japanese version of the atomic bomb. But that is where the Internet is quite useful. You get to learn things that were not taught in school. In any event the things today are not that great in Latin America and there is a lot of misinformation such as Costa Rica having low crime rate which I find hard to believe from my experiences. Still taking refuge behind a double series of locked gates.


Yes, the internet is useful. But don't you think it's silly for two or more people engaged in a "discussion/debate/all out flaming fight" to all go Googling in between posts in an attempt to best each other?

 

Well, to each his own. IMHO, it's ridiculous.

 

As for first hand experience, I visit Costa Rica and Brazil semi-regularly. Have never been searched going into banks (but yes, there are armed guards). The friends I stay with do not all have bars on their windows (some do). Yes, crime is a problem in many pockets (more than most cities in N.A.) but I would never generalize any issue to the entire region of Latin America unless I was very sure that something was true about the region. There's no way, no how you can make the sweeping statement you did. You knew that too because you started retreating. But then, why the broad stroke to begin with? For effect?

 

Never mind, I don't give a crap. People talk/write without thinking and then justify it afterward. Not interested in post facto rationalization. Buh-bye.

post #113 of 122

Calling these people immigrants offends me.  They are would-be immigrants.  Not immigrants.  Immigrants have immigrated.  Would-be immigrants are absent from their homes and are trespassing in another country.

 

Seeing billionaires favor a debasing of wages for tech workers and yard workers alike does nothing to warm my heart.  Workers like me should be the ones talking.  Billionaires like Pauline should be absolutely silent.  This is a democracy.  Workers (citizen voters) are powerful.  Billionaires ought not to be powerful.  And, non-citizens also ought not to give opinions on public policy matters.  Let them offer their comments in THEIR own countries, as I do here.

post #114 of 122
Quote:
Originally Posted by ankleskater View Post

As for first hand experience, I visit Costa Rica and Brazil semi-regularly. Have never been searched going into banks (but yes, there are armed guards).

Perhaps you have not been there recently. Things have gotten a lot more locked down in the last few years. But the other question is why would you even go into a bank? You can't do anything in a bank there unless you have an account. You can't exchange currency. You can't even break a larger bill without an account. They won't even give you the time of day unless you bank there. You can't even open an account unless you are a legal resident and have a ton of documents and references, all to prevent money laundering.

 

Not only do they search your backpacks etc, they also use metal detector wands. You are not even allowed to wear a baseball cap in the bank so the cameras can get a good shot of your face.


Edited by mstone - 4/13/13 at 11:44am

Life is too short to drink bad coffee.

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Life is too short to drink bad coffee.

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post #115 of 122
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone View Post

Perhaps you have not been there recently. Things have gotten a lot more locked down in the last few years. But the other question is why would you even go into a bank? You can't do anything in a bank there unless you have an account. You can't exchange currency. You can't even break a larger bill without an account. They won't even give you the time of day unless you bank there. You can't even open an account unless you are a legal resident and have a ton of documents and references, all to prevent money laundering.

 

Not only do they search your backpacks etc, they also use metal detector wands. You are not even allowed to wear a baseball cap in the bank so the cameras can get a good shot of your face.


You must visit a different Costa Rica or Brazil than I do. I have no problems exchanging USD for colones. At some banks, I can even withdraw cash using my credit card. BTW, they even have ATMs now as well. You might have heard that technology? I do not have a local account and the only problem I have had, from time to time, is finding a bank that's open when I need money.

 

Sometimes I just shake my head here. People like you take their limited experiences and generalize it without hesitation.

post #116 of 122
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone View Post

Perhaps you have not been there recently. Things have gotten a lot more locked down in the last few years. But the other question is why would you even go into a bank? You can't do anything in a bank there unless you have an account. You can't exchange currency. You can't even break a larger bill without an account. They won't even give you the time of day unless you bank there. You can't even open an account unless you are a legal resident and have a ton of documents and references, all to prevent money laundering.

 

Not only do they search your backpacks etc, they also use metal detector wands. You are not even allowed to wear a baseball cap in the bank so the cameras can get a good shot of your face.

 

Shit! That sounds a lot like what the US is becoming!

 

BTW...The bit about not being able to open a bank account unless you're a citizen may or may not be the case depending on the country, but I have heard that in many foreign banks, US citizens are persona non grata due to threats from the US government.

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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post #117 of 122
Quote:
Originally Posted by rajkiran View Post

you do know that its not just Mexico that people migrate from right..?

And not all 'undocumented immigrants' entered the country 'illegally', a great many overstayed their visas.
"Few things are harder to put up with than the annoyance of a good example" Mark Twain
"Just because something is deemed the law doesn't make it just" - SolipsismX
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"Few things are harder to put up with than the annoyance of a good example" Mark Twain
"Just because something is deemed the law doesn't make it just" - SolipsismX
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post #118 of 122
Quote:
Originally Posted by dasanman69 View Post


And not all 'undocumented immigrants' entered the country 'illegally', a great many overstayed their visas.

Yep, just like a bunch of the 9/11 terrorists.

 

If somebody is currently here illegally, then it doesn't really matter if they originally entered the country legally or not. If somebody has overstayed their visa, then they do not have permission to be here.

post #119 of 122
Quote:
Originally Posted by Apple ][ View Post

Yep, just like a bunch of the 9/11 terrorists.

If somebody is currently here illegally, then it doesn't really matter if they originally entered the country legally or not. If somebody has overstayed their visa, then they do not have permission to be here.

I agree but whenever 'immigration reform' is mentioned all people do is attack the border crossing Mexicans (which by the way it's not just Mexicans crossing the border), it is so much more than just them. I'm all for the deportation of those that come here and are criminals or just take advantage of our welfare system, but I can't see deporting a kid that's as American as anyone one of us, is a productive member as society, is going to school, and trying to be a asset to potential employers.
"Few things are harder to put up with than the annoyance of a good example" Mark Twain
"Just because something is deemed the law doesn't make it just" - SolipsismX
Reply
"Few things are harder to put up with than the annoyance of a good example" Mark Twain
"Just because something is deemed the law doesn't make it just" - SolipsismX
Reply
post #120 of 122

Their parents should have never came here illegally.It is a pity I agree with the kids and I would deport the parents to where ever they came from and give the kids a chance to become decent abiding citizens here and make something out of themselves.To many illegals here and this is costing taxpayers to much money!
 

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