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IHS sees netbooks dead by 2015, blames Apple's iPad - Page 2

post #41 of 76
This would have been perfect if you had put a nipple on top!
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Originally Posted by AnalogJack View Post

It's true...




post #42 of 76
Quote:
Originally Posted by dasanman69 View Post

People used laptops and notebooks interchangeably, there is no specific governing body authorized guidelines placed on what's a notebook and what's a ultrabook etc.. just a rule of thumb people go by which are semantics. They're all notebook computers.

 

Ummmm...... yes there is, ever heard of Intel?.
For a laptop to be called an 'Ultrabook' it needs to meet a set of specs & criteria set by Intel, size, weight, no optical drive & either a full SSD or a hybrid drive (fast boot times are also part of it) they decide what gets branded as ultrabook, the same thing could be said about 'Netbooks' they had to be 10 inches or smaller.
Its true (all had the same internal specs, for the most part).

they are all notebooks, but that is a really simplistic way of looking at it.

post #43 of 76
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zozman View Post

Ummmm...... yes there is, ever heard of Intel?.

For a laptop to be called an 'Ultrabook' it needs to meet a set of specs & criteria set by Intel, size, weight, no optical drive & either a full SSD or a hybrid drive (fast boot times are also part of it) they decide what gets branded as ultrabook, the same thing could be said about 'Netbooks' they had to be 10 inches or smaller.

Its true (all had the same internal specs, for the most part).
they are all notebooks, but that is a really simplistic way of looking at it.

Thanks for adding that but Soli had already pointed it out, but Intel isn't a governing body. They just trademarked the name.
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post #44 of 76
Quote:
Originally Posted by dasanman69 View Post


Thanks for adding that but Soli had already pointed it out.

 

 

Didn't read his post & i probably said it better anyways :p Haha I'm kidding...but seriously. 

post #45 of 76
Quote:
Originally Posted by dasanman69 View Post

Thanks for adding that but Soli had already pointed it out, but Intel isn't a governing body. They just trademarked the name.

It's a trademarked name which means that the http://www.uspto.gov is the governing body. They even .gov as a top level domain.

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post #46 of 76
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

It's a trademarked name which means that the http://www.uspto.gov is the governing body. They even .gov as a top level domain.

I didn't think I needed to state the obvious.
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post #47 of 76

IDGAF about IHS, stupid assed dumbfucks. This is business either stay out of it or talk to the government but don't ruin our generation.

post #48 of 76

Every single netbook I've used has made me want to pull my hair out and smash my head against a wal, repeatedly. I've bought and ultimately got rid of several. In theory they sounded great- full computer, ultra-portable, etc- but then you use the shit keyboard, shit screens, shit resolution, shit speed- and eventually you realize nothing makes up for a shit user experience. 

post #49 of 76

Certain people who possess an unbelievable ignorance and who have been making complete fools of themselves, have been continuously blabbering about 'iPad Killers' for a very long time now, but if these people had any clue at all, they'd realize that the only killer in the room is the iPad itself. 

 

How many things has the iPad killed already? The iPad is a serial killer, a mass murderer of other devices, and most likely one of the most successful mass murderers in history, when it comes to the category of tech devices. There is already a long, bloody trail of pathetic victims that the iPad has already laid waste to, mostly cheap, plastic victims that deserved to die, I might add. Netbooks are practically dead already and they are already five feet under ground, with only twelve more inches to go.

post #50 of 76
Quote:
Originally Posted by jlandd View Post

  Netbooks were great for filling the need to do what they can do for what they cost at a time when you couldn't do as well for just $400 and then $200.   There's still a market for a widget where anything above $300 is a dealkiller, and people have no delusions about what that will get them.   Asus and Acer and etc. could be making nice little useful netbooks for cheap but what I've pecked around on for the past year have pretty much been pretty unpleasant to use.  Doesn't have to be, but I guess that's that.  It's like they stopped actually checking to see if the end user experience was too not fun.   They had their run, but it wasn't as long as it looked like it would be when they were introduced, that's for sure.

 

  And, as typically, now that something else (tablets) is so popular, those companies are all chasing what someone else is setting the standard for and dropping the other balls, rather than be forward looking to create a new stage to set their own new standard on.   So they don't have the old balls or the future balls in the air, just the current ones, which are always playing catch up.   Most of them should cede the category they're not going to get and blow up some segment that Apple isn't interested in.

Working in retail computer sales - they are fully delusional I assure you. People have NO IDEA what computing power for cost really is.

 

This week I had a customer try to return a laptop because for a 350$ it "Wouldn't give me more than 20 FPS in Warcraft." Now, I'm a WoW guy, so I boot it up and check it out to see how it works - guy had everything set to Ultra. These are setting I only attempt with my 200$ video card. I turn down his graphics and I get him 35 FPS with low graphics - pretty much what you'd expect out of Intel internal graphics with 4 gigs of memory. He was furious he couldn't get what he thought he could. I asked him who helped him with the sale - he said no one, he picked it out himself based on reviews. I showed him stats from respected sites showing he was misinformed about the possible performance of this unit. I ended up just giving him his money back just to get his shouting ass out of my store.

 

And the biggest problem is the companies took those low price points and made then canon. They didn't consider that a little more build quality would get more purchases. The one Acer netbook I sell gets more returns than anything - build quality issues all over. Even the crappy android 7" chinese tablets are better in terms of returns.

post #51 of 76
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zozman View Post

 

Ummmm...... yes there is, ever heard of Intel?.
For a laptop to be called an 'Ultrabook' it needs to meet a set of specs & criteria set by Intel, size, weight, no optical drive & either a full SSD or a hybrid drive (fast boot times are also part of it) they decide what gets branded as ultrabook, the same thing could be said about 'Netbooks' they had to be 10 inches or smaller.
Its true (all had the same internal specs, for the most part).

they are all notebooks, but that is a really simplistic way of looking at it.

Well then I got a bunch of code violations at my store - I've got 3 or 4 notebooks labeled as "Ultrabooks" with HDDs, not an SSD in sight. God I'd appreciate them.

post #52 of 76
I had an Asus Eee for years and it was a great little piece of cheap gear. It was completely out of it's realm for any kind of content creation, and ultimately that's what makes it unlikely that the netbook will survive, since the iPad (which is useless for creation) can do most of what a netbook can do, with better battery life and a much slimmer profile, and ultrabooks can do a lot more than either in a similar form factor; that is, the cheap and low capability iPad and the expensive and high capability MBA do a better job of addressing their respective use cases than a netbook conceivably could do.

I upgraded a few years ago to an 11" MBA and for 4.5* the price you definitely get a broader list of capabilities (it chugs along merrily running IDEs, PS6, games, and all that with a full-sized keyboard,) but even with processors that can manage these tasks at acceptable levels of performance you still find yourself cramped by the screen size, no matter how many pixels you jam in it (not so much for IDEs, but certainly w/PS6,) so it would make sense that a lot of people (who aren't willing to burn huge amounts of cash on superfluous hardware) would find it hard to justify having TWO portables that effectively do the same things, optimized for different scenarios (light MBA for "lite" work and heavy MBP for "heavy" work.) It seems like this reality is reflected in PC sales as people can "get by" with one or two devices and aren't going to buy an iPad AND an ultra portable laptop (when I got my MBA I sold my iPad after 2 months of not so much as picking it up.)

Not sure why some of you are so enraged by netbooks. They were great at what they did before other approaches came along with optimized capabilities and redefined what "great" meant at two different ends of the spectrum; netbooks opened the door for both cheap content consumption devices AND small form factor laptops with useable hardware performance.
post #53 of 76
Quote:
Originally Posted by saintstryfe View Post

Well then I got a bunch of code violations at my store - I've got 3 or 4 notebooks labeled as "Ultrabooks" with HDDs, not an SSD in sight. God I'd appreciate them.

 

Yep sounds like it to me .


Im pretty sure the HDD needs to be at least 8GB SSD hybrid to run the OS, for the fast boot times. 

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ultrabook  - I know, wikipedia isn't really legit. 

 

http://www.intel.com.au/content/www/au/en/ultrabook/ultrabook-showcase.html - some intel stuff, its the aussie site too.

 

http://www.mobiletechreview.com/Ultrabook-Info.htm - More random info.

 

 

 

I know this is all a tangent from the subject, basically, yeah, netbooks are dead in the ass, have been for years, no shock there.

I have a windows 8 tablet running an atom processor, its more or less what the netbook spec'd machines have become, intel are bringing out a quadcore atom later this year or early next, to compete with the fast arm processors, interesting times ahead...not for netbooks unless they try to bring them back?.


Edited by Zozman - 4/14/13 at 12:25am
post #54 of 76
Quote:
Originally Posted by ciparis View Post

Odd. I've always thought it was sucking that killed them.

In a way it was - it's just until the iPad came out and showed you what performance you could actually get from a small portable device people were blinded to netbooks slowness by the marketing hype and lure of portability - the bad performance of netbooks was almost accepted by people as a necessary trade off for the size and portability.
post #55 of 76
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

Netbooks died in January 2010. How stupid do you have to be to not see that, much less think they'll be around two MORE years?

Then again, VGA has ANOTHER YEAR of support, meaning it will be on motherboards until the bitter end. You can still find computers with PS/2 ports, after all.

Netbooks, when they were released (eg the original Asus eeePc or whatever it was) were an interesting idea at the time when you just needed something to check email (eg a blackberry device), longer battery life (eg a laptop), and a wireless access point. However companies like Dell and HP decided to try and use the netbook category to backfill the "cheap laptop" entry point by putting these substandard Intel Atom parts, intel GMA video and basically use the worst parts they could find. Apple of course would never make something that terrible (but the longevity of MacBook Air and MacMini proves they can make cheaper systems that become quickly obsolete.)

VGA will not be going away any time soon, and it has nothing to do with laptops or desktops, but rather servers. Servers up until IPMI based remote KVM became available, you had to have a separate KVM device that connected mechanically to the VGA port and PS/2 ports. IP-KVM's are still terrible pieces of hardware, and IPMI is far superior, but that still relies on the system having power, and having once been configured with an attached VGA screen and USB mouse/Keyboard. Servers can easily dispose of the VGA port , but they don't need the more expensive HDMI or Displayport since it will only be used once during the lifetime of the device. So we will continue to see VGA monitors and VGA ports on servers. But not desktops or Laptops.

Now as for the PS/2 port problem. We have systems still shipping with these because USB keyboards and mice are basically garbage. Hear me out. Go look at the product specifications for gamer keyboards and mice and you'll see things like high dpi values for mice and "full key rollover" for keyboards. PS/2 Keyboards allow every key to be independently pressed (who has 101 fingers, I don't.) USB keyboards only allow 6. Adding on top of this is latency for keyboards and mice. So you will not see PS/2 ports disappear on equipment that can be used for playing PC games. Laptops however these ports should disappear.

One very important thing that hardware developers keep doing, and I really really hate, is making everything wireless. I do not want a wireless mouse, and I do not want a wireless keyboard, nor do I want a wireless game controller or a wireless network. Yet I'm being forced to accept these, and their resulting charging docks and their power bricks. Seriously this is not making things simpler at all. When I take a laptop or iPad somewhere, I do not want to have to take an additional power brick for every accessory.

The iPad is wonderful in a "I can replace a GPS, camera, camcorder, laptop, storage device, etc" way so that's 20lbs of gear I don't need to take on a plane or through customs. The only thing that would make it nicer is if there was a standard for un-powered wireless stylus that can be used on the iPad , and a removeable SDXC card slot so that content can be edited on the device without first being copied to it. If it's not part of the base device, then software will not be written to take advantage of it.
post #56 of 76

Personally, I think the Macbook Air and the iPad did it in. The Air is for people who really want a functional computer, whereas the iPad is for those that really just wanted something cheap to get on the internet with. Netbooks were too underpowered to be good at anything, really. Then, right in the middle of their popularity, Intel and Microsoft decided that they wanted to restrict netbooks to stop cannibalization into real laptops. That didn't help them, either.

post #57 of 76
Quote:
Originally Posted by Misa View Post

VGA will not be going away any time soon, and it has nothing to do with laptops or desktops, but rather servers. Servers up until IPMI based remote KVM became available, you had to have a separate KVM device that connected mechanically to the VGA port and PS/2 ports. IP-KVM's are still terrible pieces of hardware, and IPMI is far superior, but that still relies on the system having power, and having once been configured with an attached VGA screen and USB mouse/Keyboard. Servers can easily dispose of the VGA port , but they don't need the more expensive HDMI or Displayport since it will only be used once during the lifetime of the device. So we will continue to see VGA monitors and VGA ports on servers. But not desktops or Laptops.

I think the industry is done supporting VGA. Both and Intel and AMD have stated they will stop supporting the chipsets by 2015. That doesn't mean you can't add a card that supports VGA or you can't use a USB to VGA adapter, but it does make it less likely for newer systems to rely on this old technology.

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post #58 of 76
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

Netbooks died in January 2010. How stupid do you have to be to not see that, much less think they'll be around two MORE years?

 

Then again, VGA has ANOTHER YEAR of support, meaning it will be on motherboards until the bitter end. You can still find computers with PS/2 ports, after all.

 

Not on Apple products.

 

As for VGA, there's a universality about it (better or worse) in corporate America. The place where I work has standardized on VGA for all conference room A/V equipment, and I noticed that "business-oriented" (as opposed to entertainment) laptops carry VGA output like the ThinkPad and HP workhorse laptops. I think for the same reason Apple offers VGA dongles for both the MacBook and iPad. I'm not sure why VGA lives on in PC motherboards because DVI has been around long enough that it's all but replaced VGA on monitors.

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post #59 of 76
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Originally Posted by MacBook Pro View Post

The Chromebook seems to be enjoying some popularity at least amongst an Android-centric crowd. I would certainly consider Chromebooks to be netbooks, in fact, Chromebooks may be the quintessential netbook. The Chromebook Pixel is an attempt to elevate public opinion about netbooks, otherwise the Chromebook is doomed to the same "make it up in volume" mentality. The challenge is that the only way to differentiate a product that is seen as manufactured by commodity brands is price. Ultimately no one wins the price war; not the companies, not the consumer.

yes, the Chromebook is a pure netbook. so why hasn't it taken off? because like a tablet it forces you to fundamentally change how you do your everyday computing (except for basic web surfing, email, etc) via new kinds of web apps, but the hardware is still the old-style UI. whereas tablets offer an entirely new - and clearly, popular - UI to go along with making you adopt their whole new approach to computing with them - a complete change. and smartphones had already laid a foundation for them.

 

turns out, consumers were ready for and wanted the complete change, and all the new possibilities it opened up. the Chromebook is going nowhere, ever.

post #60 of 76
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

I still see netbooks in coffee shops and such but it's not very often. I mostly see Mac notebooks, then iPads (oft with keyboard cases that make it a netbook-style device that is usable), then non-Mac notebooks, then netbooks.

Makes sense, some folks bought net books cause they didn't have the money for a real computer. So they will use it until it dies. Same as the folks with the money but too dang cheap to spend it
post #61 of 76
Quote:
Originally Posted by dasanman69 View Post

Thanks for adding that but Soli had already pointed it out, but Intel isn't a governing body. They just trademarked the name.

They don't need to be governing body when the Trademark governs the term's use. Anyone using the term for a computer that don't fit the specs the trademark was granted for is violating the trademark and as the owner Intel can and legally must tell them to cut it out.
post #62 of 76
Quote:
Originally Posted by Raleigh Brecht View Post

IDGAF about IHS, stupid assed dumbfucks. This is business either stay out of it or talk to the government but don't ruin our generation.

 

Why stop there? Why not open with "IDGAFAIHS, SADs" instead and save us all the grief of having to read that stupidity long form?

post #63 of 76
Quote:
Originally Posted by ruel24 View Post

"...whereas the iPad is for those that really just wanted something cheap to get on the internet with…"

 

Can't agree with you about this part. From my own experience, that isn't at all what drove my decision to buy an iPad. Second, iPads are still more expensive than Netbooks were, so if price was the primary driver you wouldn't be looking at an iPad at all.

post #64 of 76
Whats there to blame? As if apple has done something morally wrong?,
No one uses abacus either..!
post #65 of 76
Quote:
IHS sees netbooks dead by 2015, credits Apple's iPad

 

Fixed the headline for you.

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post #66 of 76
Quote:
Originally Posted by bdkennedy1 View Post

I don't know a single person that has a netbook that loves it.

I loved the form factor of my 9" HP Mini. The design and ergonomics were great, as was the feature-price ratio. At the time, I very sincerely wished that Apple would make a nearly identical machine that ran OS X, because the one thing I didn't like about it was that it ran Windows.

I've since moved on to a Macbook Pro and an iPad Mini, but to this day I still would much rather have a Mac version of that HP Mini.
post #67 of 76
Quote:
Originally Posted by petrosy View Post

Netbooks were killed by Microsoft....forcing oems to install Windows over Linux and restricting screen sizes to 10in.

Basically held the industry to ransom...

Microsoft's limitations, if I recall correctly, were attached to Windows 7 Starter Edition - if you put Win 7 Pro on netbook, MS doesn't care about your screen or RAM size. Thus there were netbooks with HDDs over 250GB and RAM over 1 GB... but with higher Windows 7 SKUs.

Netbook was unloved child by most involved, a Cinderella in a way. Intel was not happy with people buying it's cheapest PC tech (and reducing sales of higher end, higher profit products) while MS didn't want to make Win 7 Starter as useful as more expensive SKUs.

It ended up with platform that pretty much stagnated for a few years, giving no reason for customer to upgrade (unless their unit died). The whole approach gave cheapest IT money can buy - currently Acer Aspire One costs NZ$461 while 16GB iPad Mini costs NZ$475 - but it turned out there is a limit how cheap average customer wants his computing, and it seems netbooks went below that, amazing as it may sound.

MBA is not netbook in terms of hardware, but is in terms of form factor. I wouldn't call them netbooks, but I would call them result of netbooks' evolution. Same as Ultrabooks from likes of Asus, Acer and others.
post #68 of 76

Sure, sales of netbooks to middle/upper-middle class westerners is going to drop due to tablets, but the platform isn't going to "die" for a long time.

 

A sub-$300 computer for internet/emailing and working from home is still preferable to a great many people compared to extensive use of a virtual keyboard on a  tablet. Most of Asia will be choose netbooks over tablets for much of the foreseeable future, for example.

 

I spend a lot of time in Nepal, India and China with work, and the only places you see tablets in use are in really high end shopping malls (where the children of the rich drink coffee and watch YouTube). Otherwise, cheap netbooks are used by pretty much all my colleagues and can be seen everywhere you go. Sending emails/writing reports for 8 hours a day is still a lot easier on a keyboard for most, and in these countries an iPad would cost more than double what a new netbook would.

post #69 of 76
The problem with netbooks is its hard to get a really good picture of some sexy hottie baring all her assets on them. I need at least a 1o.10 inch screen to do that . Also it much easier to quickly switch the app when the wife comes in the room with a iPad so she doesn't see the porn I'm looking at
post #70 of 76

Until Intel kill Atom processor and AMD kill low end CPU line, netbook will produced in some form.

 

iPad price range never met the netbook price line. iPad lowest price is $499.

$500 in window laptop world, you can get decent entry level laptop with full blown windows 7 or 8.

 

Market is different. Netbook will not die soon. Specially Intel will release Out of Order(OOO) Atom CPU soon.

This new Atom CPU may be game changer in netbook & tablet market.

post #71 of 76

The netbook can't be dead! Microsoft still sells the Surface RT. 1wink.gif

post #72 of 76
Quote:
Originally Posted by hmm View Post

 

The whole netbook thing was executed poorly. They were originally designed to run some flavor of Linux rather than Windows.

No, they were originally designed to get Microsoft to offer XP licenses for longer to OEMs.  Even the original netbooks came with references to Windows XP in their manuals when only Linux versions ever existed.

post #73 of 76

Netbooks still exist?

post #74 of 76
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikeb85 View Post

Netbooks still exist?

Yep, and I just bought one. My life is too comfortable and efficient so I decided to hate the world a little¡ 1biggrin.gif Seriously though, I did just buy the one paxman mentioned earlier as I need an additional machine just for testing network connectivity. For pings mostly, which it's really all it's good for.

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post #75 of 76
Quote:
Originally Posted by Apple ][ View Post

Certain people who possess an unbelievable ignorance and who have been making complete fools of themselves, have been continuously blabbering about 'iPad Killers' for a very long time now, but if these people had any clue at all, they'd realize that the only killer in the room is the iPad itself. 

 

How many things has the iPad killed already? The iPad is a serial killer, a mass murderer of other devices, and most likely one of the most successful mass murderers in history, when it comes to the category of tech devices. There is already a long, bloody trail of pathetic victims that the iPad has already laid waste to, mostly cheap, plastic victims that deserved to die, I might add. Netbooks are practically dead already and they are already five feet under ground, with only twelve more inches to go.

In my opinion leading in with the suggestion that one product will kill another stifles any reasonably comparison. Tech blogs like to use the term because they know people will click on it. Even if they click to leave comments in disagreements, they still clicked through to the article.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Applelunatic View Post

No, they were originally designed to get Microsoft to offer XP licenses for longer to OEMs.  Even the original netbooks came with references to Windows XP in their manuals when only Linux versions ever existed.

Are you saying they were just there for leverage? That doesn't seem likely.

post #76 of 76
This shows big market share means nothing , it can collapse anytime .
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