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Apple employs 4 of the top 5 highest paid execs in the US - Page 2

post #41 of 72
Originally Posted by jdnc123 View Post
You can't prove that the executives left running this company are capable and deserving of the money they were paid any more than I can prove they aren't.  

 

So why do you think you're right? lol.gif


Google acquired Android for $50 million.  How'd that deal work out for them...

 

They also acquired Motorola for $12 billion. How'd that deal work out for them? lol.gif

 

Intelligent management of resources drives growth. You can have zero acquisitions and grow and nothing but acquisitions and go bankrupt.

 

I am a partial OWNER of the company.

 

 

And this means what? Do you know how to run it? Do you know what they've been doing internally for the past ten years? Do you know what they've been planning for the next five years? 

 

So why do you think articulating the current step in that process 1. is good for the company, since everyone gets to hear it or 2. would "be acceptable" to you, having not heard the past or the future? 


Originally Posted by jdnc123 View Post
The CEO told the market 'the good times are behind us'…

 

Nowhere did he say that, ever, at any time.


Until he says otherwise, why shouldn't the market believe the CEO?

 

First you say the "market" doesn't trust him and then you say the "market" should believe him 100%.

 

Which is it.


Only reason any CEO would say what he did and give no sign of a return to growth is he has no clue himself, which speaks volumes.

 

It speaks volumes about you that you think it's the "ONLY REASON".


So if i'm to believe this forum, no CEO at any company should ever have to articulate a plan or strategy to the owners of the company.

 

Again, you own it; that means nothing. You don't work for it, you don't have input in regard to product, and you don't drive strategy in the industry. Why should Apple tell all their competitors what they have on their plate?

Originally Posted by helia

I can break your arm if I apply enough force, but in normal handshaking this won't happen ever.
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Originally Posted by helia

I can break your arm if I apply enough force, but in normal handshaking this won't happen ever.
Reply
post #42 of 72
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdnc123 View Post

I'm sure Apple employees don't care about their stock options and how the drop in price is eating into their own net worth.  I'm sure its not chatter at the water cooler or after work out for a beer that someone inside Apple with a good idea is better off to monetize that idea by leaving the company and going somewhere that the stock isn't in freefall and isn't facing the law of large numbers with no articulated strategy to grow earnings again.

Tim Cook guided earnings below what they were last year.  Not me, not the market.  The CEO told the market 'the good times are behind us' and we are going to shrink earnings going forward.  Until he says otherwise, why shouldn't the market believe the CEO?  He is the one who confirmed the fears and gave no guidance on when the fears or reduced earnings would revert back to growth.  Only reason any CEO would say what he did and give no sign of a return to growth is he has no clue himself, which speaks volumes.

So if i'm to believe this forum, no CEO at any company should ever have to articulate a plan or strategy to the owners of the company.

Employees know to be patient, and know that they're working on great things. I'm imagining the best-case here, because I don't really know, and because I am not filled with fear over my investment. (I don't have any in AAPL)

Your second paragraph tells the fearful story. The rational interpretation of Cook's or Oppenheimer's guidance is that they're working on some expensive and difficult development this year, which they would be crazy to articulate in any specific way to assuage the nervous flock of investors. And he would be crazy to predict the future beyond one quarter. That "speaks volumes" about their discipline and adherence to conventional conservative practice.
post #43 of 72
Quote:
Originally Posted by zoffdino View Post

People, most of those compensation are spread over a 10 years period, but for tax purposes, they have to declare the income as this year's. Did anybody honestly believe that Cook gets a 90% salary reduction for this year?

Anyway, what do they have to show for the humongous compensation they got? Stock tanked nearly 40% and none of them blinked an eye.

How's the company preforming?
"Few things are harder to put up with than the annoyance of a good example" Mark Twain
"Just because something is deemed the law doesn't make it just" - SolipsismX
Reply
"Few things are harder to put up with than the annoyance of a good example" Mark Twain
"Just because something is deemed the law doesn't make it just" - SolipsismX
Reply
post #44 of 72
Originally Posted by jdnc123 View Post
he told the market earnings would significantly decline this qtr versus last year.  He indeed said that.


So then say that instead of the FUD-filled nonsense you did say.


This concept that you have to be an insider otherwise your input is invalid is so absurdly naive its not even worth commenting on.

 

There's a corner of a piece of paper sticking out from underneath a solid oak door.

 

There's a zero written on it.

 

From this you deduce the entirety of the contents of the piece of paper and claim that Apple is doomed.


Here is a prediction for you.  Tim Cook is fired and gone within one year.  

 

To be clear, is that one year from when he took over as CEO like people were saying back then, or one year from right this very second?

Because your predictions will always come true if the goalposts are strapped to a golf cart. 


Originally Posted by igriv View Post
And "our coming lineup is chock full of great stuff" is meaningless.

 

Sounds like they're making new products that are going to be great.

 

I wonder how explicitly defining the continuation of their product lines is "meaningless".


Originally Posted by igriv View Post
…the entire investing public are greater fools than he.

 

Nah, just that they can't possibly know something they're not told.

Originally Posted by helia

I can break your arm if I apply enough force, but in normal handshaking this won't happen ever.
Reply

Originally Posted by helia

I can break your arm if I apply enough force, but in normal handshaking this won't happen ever.
Reply
post #45 of 72
I think AI needs to create a special thread or forum where these arm chair generals can go bitch about the stock or Cook's management of the company.
post #46 of 72
Originally Posted by jdnc123 View Post
New closing 52-week low right around the corner, new low value for Apple since Tim Cook took over.  Value continues to be destroyed by Cook and team, negative value creation in the two years they have run it.  Samsung meanwhile right near all-time high.  Those the facts jack.

 

"I don't actually know anything about which I'm speaking. Except it's the truth."


Originally Posted by Rogifan View Post
I think AI needs to create a special thread or forum where these arm chair generals can go bitch about the stock or Cook's management of the company.
 

We have one. For those to whom this applies, please post your complaints in that forum.

Originally Posted by helia

I can break your arm if I apply enough force, but in normal handshaking this won't happen ever.
Reply

Originally Posted by helia

I can break your arm if I apply enough force, but in normal handshaking this won't happen ever.
Reply
post #47 of 72
Quote:
Originally Posted by igriv View Post

"the market does not understand Apple"? What makes you think that they are smarter than the many people who make up the market (many of them professional investors)?

Do I really have to spell out for you? We have a professional investor right here at hand, who thinks Apple should crank out a large-screen phone like six moths ago, just as if they were Samsung, so jdnc123 said in another thread recently.*

As if Apple had their own chip and display fabs, their own army of nimble Korean engineers, their own top-down dictatorial management structure, all of which allow Samsung to churn out products like so much commodity. The companies couldn't be more different.

Apple takes years to perfect a product, Samsung cranks them out. What could be simpler, and people like Horace Dediu get this, but the investment community? How many times have you seen it asked, where is Apple's big-screen phone?

Enough said about this. jdnc123 is a textbook example of investors who don't get it, and you are just being your typical distracting gadfly self.

*Edit: and here as well. I'm beginning to think he's more in the pro troll category, rather than pro investor. I doubt anyone can be this sincerely dense. If he's all that invested in AAPL, he's being suicidal with that investment. Cook fired in a year! Hah!
Edited by Flaneur - 4/15/13 at 1:31pm
post #48 of 72
Originally Posted by jdnc123 View Post
I don't understand.  Everything I said was the truth.


So be a dear and list off this quarter's earnings, since you apparently know them early.


Name me something good they have done that isn't just a tail/annuity of something Jobs had led.

 

No, no. Prove to me that nothing they've done since his death has been anything but 100% Jobs-approved, -created, or even -started.


What are these guys getting paid all the money for that they deserve it?

 

All these things you claim to have done and all these opinions you have and you can't see it? Don't know if that's embarrassing or just sad.

Originally Posted by helia

I can break your arm if I apply enough force, but in normal handshaking this won't happen ever.
Reply

Originally Posted by helia

I can break your arm if I apply enough force, but in normal handshaking this won't happen ever.
Reply
post #49 of 72
And now we know the intended use for all that cash they are tightly holding onto instead of giving to shareholders. Keep it all in the family...
post #50 of 72
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdnc123 View Post

>>"I don't actually know anything about which I'm speaking...">>

 

The utter lack of understanding and ignorance that you have have displayed in your posts in this thread has been both astonishing and most amusing.

 

I think you chose an appropriate career choice when you became an investor.

My car keeps crashing whenever I do 150mph. It's a design flaw. People tell me to slow down and drive normally but I should be able to use it as I wish.
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My car keeps crashing whenever I do 150mph. It's a design flaw. People tell me to slow down and drive normally but I should be able to use it as I wish.
Reply
post #51 of 72
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdnc123 View Post

'Trust us, don't worry about it' doesn't work when your company loses half its value...

 

So when did Apple hit $840?

 

With math like that I wouldn't trust you to invest a nickel in a slot machine.

Better than my Bose, better than my Skullcandy's, listening to Mozart through my LeBron James limited edition PowerBeats by Dre is almost as good as my Sennheisers.
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Better than my Bose, better than my Skullcandy's, listening to Mozart through my LeBron James limited edition PowerBeats by Dre is almost as good as my Sennheisers.
Reply
post #52 of 72
Originally Posted by hill60 View Post
With math like that I wouldn't trust you to invest a nickel in a slot machine.

 

Given that math, he'd invest an ACTUAL nickel.

Originally Posted by helia

I can break your arm if I apply enough force, but in normal handshaking this won't happen ever.
Reply

Originally Posted by helia

I can break your arm if I apply enough force, but in normal handshaking this won't happen ever.
Reply
post #53 of 72
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdnc123 View Post

Funny, yet ineffective attempt at trying to deflect the reality.

 

Tell us more about investing and reality, oh Wise One!

 

lol.gif

My car keeps crashing whenever I do 150mph. It's a design flaw. People tell me to slow down and drive normally but I should be able to use it as I wish.
Reply
My car keeps crashing whenever I do 150mph. It's a design flaw. People tell me to slow down and drive normally but I should be able to use it as I wish.
Reply
post #54 of 72
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdnc123 View Post

I don't get your joke.

Exactly.

You just don't get it.

1wink.gif
My car keeps crashing whenever I do 150mph. It's a design flaw. People tell me to slow down and drive normally but I should be able to use it as I wish.
Reply
My car keeps crashing whenever I do 150mph. It's a design flaw. People tell me to slow down and drive normally but I should be able to use it as I wish.
Reply
post #55 of 72
Originally Posted by jdnc123 View Post
All I did was state facts that others didn't seem to grasp.


Thing is, you also pitched lies and guesses as being those same "facts", so you'll probably have to forgive people for not believing you.

Originally Posted by helia

I can break your arm if I apply enough force, but in normal handshaking this won't happen ever.
Reply

Originally Posted by helia

I can break your arm if I apply enough force, but in normal handshaking this won't happen ever.
Reply
post #56 of 72
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdnc123 View Post

I keep using "value" of Apple, not the market capitalization.  etc etc

Oh, please QUIT IT with this nonsense. You're beating it to death-- no, after it's way past dead -- and if anything, detracting from the larger point you're trying to make.

post #57 of 72
I don't know much about Apple's hierarchy.

Coming from that oblivious point, I'd expect likes of Tim, Ive, Phil... to be top dogs in terms of earnings.

Are those 4 guys really THAT important? They look a bit off-the-mill corporate execs, those with golden parachutes and top floor offices with guaranteed corporate jet options that are plaguing of most modern corporations. People who are there for good connections rather than personal value. In short, highly overrated and overpaid.

I'm probably dead wrong here... or am I?
post #58 of 72
Quote:
Originally Posted by Flaneur View Post


Apple and Cook's job is to concentrate on making their, our, "great products," and not pander to the stupid market. The more stupid the market become, the LESS Cook should be saying to it. The stupidity is beneath contempt, therefore beneath comment, from the stoic, solid man—and company—of character.

Those investors with understanding have patience, and are antcipating how absolutely stupid the impatient and unseeing will be shown to be when the next round of insanely great products arrive. You may see this as a leap of faith, but those using their whole brain see that it's the typical Apple pattern of Zen serenity about their role that is at work. Cook already did his reassuring. All you have to do is listen.

 

As the months go by and the world's largest tech company continues to release...  ...not much and certainly nothing that's more than modestly iterative....  ...this line about all the great stuff in the pipeline's getting thinner and thinner.

 

And what's been released broke previous proclamations:  1. The 9.7" iPad was the "perfect size."  Apparently not.  2. One hand phone operation. Not truly possible for the average hand with the "stretch" form factor. 

 

3. Or, like the 15" MBR, priced out of reach and the 13" graphically underpowered.  Or the case of Thunderbolt starting to look like the next Firewire when cheap USB3 devices are proving "good enough," and not even slapped onto the pro after years.   Even the new dock connector - requiring its own chipset - isn't an unqualified winner. 

 

iWorks not updated.  The free apps suite fairly moribund as well.  The prof. photo processing app ditto.  Final Cut Pro X losing share.  iCloud flummoxing both users and developers.  Maps not given a beta label.  Siri no smarter. OS X becoming more opaque to traditional power users.  iOS looking dated. Resisting touch screens as alternate input method for when it makes sense on laptops means people running Win in VM Ware or Parallels are going to have less interest in Macs (I know the first iteration of Win 8's the next Vista, but the last Vista became the very successful Windows 7).  Etc. 

 

So what's really new and insanely great except the best team of litigators in the industry?  It's not gonna be a watch, IMHO. 

 

My sense is that Apple's been very focused on content deals focusing around, say, a streaming service and things related to video - and that they're having a tough time making headway.  I haven't bought a single song since free Spotify came along (and nicely integrated my iTunes Library).

 

I've followed the PC industry since before it began.  And Apple was the most fascinating company of them all to follow all the way through Jobs' unfortunate early passing.  Since then, frankly, it seems more and more like just another RBC (really big corporation) every day, and one caught up in its past competencies and a web of code and a business model that was once ground-breaking but which seems to be becoming an anchor.

Leadership is important even in companies with 10's of thousands of great employees.  Marissa Mayer seems to have injected a bit of it into a company I figured was down the tubes.  And if the leadership's executing at Apple (besides continuing to milk products which will age out and inevitably commodify), not really seeing the evidence.

An iPhone, a Leatherman and thou...  ...life is complete.

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An iPhone, a Leatherman and thou...  ...life is complete.

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post #59 of 72
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdnc123 View Post

I don't think I am.  The market is giving Apple no value for its cash, so the cash it generates actually is decreasing the value of the company more than the stock price drop reflects.  Point I am making is same point Einhorn and others have made.....the cash isn't an asset of any value if management either doesn't know what to do with it, or is scared to based on their 'depression era' mentality (not my term).  

There is actually quite an arb for the company right now....go issue a bunch of debt at a lower rate than your dividend yield and buyback the stock....on a cash basis, you actually save money.

I'm not the only one bewildered that a CEO who said many months ago he doesn't need all the cash, can't come up with an idea what to do with it.

Leaves the impression the next couple quarters are going to be really bad.   We will see next week.

The good thing is that a really bad quarter for Apple is still damn good compared to everyone else. Be cool chicken little because the sky is not falling.
"Few things are harder to put up with than the annoyance of a good example" Mark Twain
"Just because something is deemed the law doesn't make it just" - SolipsismX
Reply
"Few things are harder to put up with than the annoyance of a good example" Mark Twain
"Just because something is deemed the law doesn't make it just" - SolipsismX
Reply
post #60 of 72
Originally Posted by jdnc123 View Post
I'm not the only one bewildered that a CEO who said many months ago he doesn't need all the cash, can't come up with an idea what to do with it.

 

Because "doesn't need" instantaneously implies "absolutely must give it away immediately otherwise failure"? 

Originally Posted by helia

I can break your arm if I apply enough force, but in normal handshaking this won't happen ever.
Reply

Originally Posted by helia

I can break your arm if I apply enough force, but in normal handshaking this won't happen ever.
Reply
post #61 of 72
Quote:
Originally Posted by igriv View Post

The cash is being eaten away by inflation, so he is screwing up to the tune of several billion dollars a year.

Much of it is earning interest, just a year ago it was 100 billion and now it's 137 billion. In my book that's damn good growth in a year.
"Few things are harder to put up with than the annoyance of a good example" Mark Twain
"Just because something is deemed the law doesn't make it just" - SolipsismX
Reply
"Few things are harder to put up with than the annoyance of a good example" Mark Twain
"Just because something is deemed the law doesn't make it just" - SolipsismX
Reply
post #62 of 72
Quote:
Originally Posted by igriv View Post

Yes, and keep pouring that Kool-Aid. Maybe they have a next round of insanely great products, maybe they do not. Tim  Cook saying they do means nothing (saying this is part of his job). The market does not believe it, and expresses the disbelief by valuation. You do believe it, and so you have a golden arb opportunity: just buy some Apple calls maturing in a couple of months and make a killing. If you are not doing that, you are just blowing smoke (while drinking the KoolAid) because Mr Market is voting with its cash.

Ok, so play the Kool-Aid card, the last refuge of the seasoned and mature Apple hater.

Correct, maybe they don't have another round of insanely great products, but simple logic tells the reasonable person that they do. No Kool-Aid needed, just the weight of recent history going back to 1999. Ive, Williams, Mansfield and crew just hitting their stride, judging by what they've been doing with aluminum, with thin-film GITO, with massive worldwide roll-outs, and so on.

You guys (jdnc123, bigpics now included) see things through a glass darkly. It ain't zeal for me either, it's just plain simple logic. In memory of DaHarder, Time Will Tell.

That's it, I'm through for now, carry on with your visionary work.
post #63 of 72
"The glass is half empty! Samsung's meanwhile is half full! Those the facts jack. Why won't you people listen to me?"

"Apple should pull the plug on the iPhone."

John C. Dvorak, 2007
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"Apple should pull the plug on the iPhone."

John C. Dvorak, 2007
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post #64 of 72
Quote:
Originally Posted by igriv View Post

You think the $37BN is interest?

What part of 'much of it' didn't you understand? Do you think none of the 37 billion is interest?
"Few things are harder to put up with than the annoyance of a good example" Mark Twain
"Just because something is deemed the law doesn't make it just" - SolipsismX
Reply
"Few things are harder to put up with than the annoyance of a good example" Mark Twain
"Just because something is deemed the law doesn't make it just" - SolipsismX
Reply
post #65 of 72
Quote:
Originally Posted by igriv View Post

Are you talking about "google glass"?

If it's shaped like a search bubble, yes.

"Apple should pull the plug on the iPhone."

John C. Dvorak, 2007
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"Apple should pull the plug on the iPhone."

John C. Dvorak, 2007
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post #66 of 72
Someone's on -- or off -- drugs again.
post #67 of 72
Quote:
Originally Posted by igriv View Post

Because presumably he is being paid by Apple's british subsidiary? Since he is buying $20MM houses all over the world (one in SF, one in London), I assume he is not being stiffed too badly.
a $20m London house? Since when?
post #68 of 72
Quote:
Originally Posted by malax View Post

"none of them are the company's chief executive officer"

 

Basic grammar, people.  (I know that "none is" sounds weird, but what can you do.  Think of is as "not one" then you'll get it right.)

 

Really that all you could contribute to this discussion. Again we are back in school with this spell and grammar check. Who cares, everyone understood the   article.

As for the payouts, good for these guys, especially Mike, he worked very hard for Apple.

 

Soul

 

Edit: The above reply does have grammar mistakes, but what the hell you get gist of my comments.

post #69 of 72
Quote:
Originally Posted by jd_in_sb View Post

Glad that the anti-capitalism "these salaries aren't fair" crowd haven't pounced on this thread.
It may be 'fair', but is it 'right'? You don't have to be anti capitalist not to be blinkered by the doctrine.
post #70 of 72
Quote:
Originally Posted by igriv View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by anantksundaram View Post

Someone's on -- or off -- drugs again.
Yes, I know you hate me, but thanks for reminding me.

No, I don't. Don't flatter yourself.

I am just bemused by all your anger, and marveling at the fact that you haven't been banned yet. :-)
post #71 of 72
Its not uncommon to see senior sales executives make more than the presidents of the companies. Especially in the old days. A book many years ago, ghost written by J Paul Getty, slammed Xerox for recently cutting the pay of their sales force. (those of us around in the 70's in the business world, heard about the lavish trips, parties, and pay, of the top Xerox salesmen) Plus, their secret games of picking up girls using their newfound Xerox selling skills courses. They lowered the pay of the sales force, because the execs were jealous of the higher pay. Getty said (I paraphrase), you NEVER pay your salesmen too much. When they are making too much money, that means your profits are going up and up! He told Xerox, by cutting their sales salarys and bonuses, they were going to lose biz. Thats exactly what happened. Ex Xerox superstars went and cut deals for Ricoh, and cannon to come in to the US. We all know how that affected the copying business for years.
post #72 of 72

No surprise there then, the amount of money Apple must have...

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